Author Topic: Talk to me about...The Shogun  (Read 4004 times)

Southern Coyote

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Talk to me about...The Shogun
« on: 01 July 2012, 19:49:42 »
I'm really bummed that there aren't more Shoguns in existence.  It seems to be solidly built assault mech.  I have a mini and have yet to play it, but I like the look of it and the stats seem pretty good.  It reminds me alot of the Savage Coyote and I guess that's why I'm a fan of the mech.

So, what are your thoughts on the Shogun?
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Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #1 on: 01 July 2012, 20:45:32 »
Love it, use it regardless of rarity, own 2 of the mini, its a Stalker w/ Arms & Jumpjets !

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Southern Coyote

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #2 on: 01 July 2012, 23:31:20 »
I like it.  I'm considering picking up a few more from the LGS I found near my folks place.

It's got a flexible weapons payload.  Jump jets on an assault, which at the time was kinda rare.  It looks to be a good brawler. 
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lowrolling

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #3 on: 03 July 2012, 18:34:41 »
I like it as well. I have yet to find a way to justify tabling all 4 of mine at once however.
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Ian Sharpe

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #4 on: 03 July 2012, 22:03:22 »
Shogun C is a great ride as long as the ammo holds out.  The Artemis IV is probably a mistake on it.  At long- or short-range though, expect to take crits from it. 

the 2E is similarly light on LRM ammo, but acceptable.  3E...meh.  Again, needs more ammo, esp since the ERPPC takes up most of the sinks. 

oldfart3025

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #5 on: 03 July 2012, 23:31:17 »
The -2E is rare in our games nowadays, except for the occasional example in merc or militia units. But back in the day, when we played it frequently, it was considered one of the better assault-class 'Mechs at the time. It was largely replaced on our tabletop by the SHG-2F.

The Shogun-2F itself is slowly being relegated to specialized roles in heavy assault brigades, every since the excellent -2H was introduced to our campaigning in more recent times. This Shogun variant lends itself better to playing the part of a "generalist" line assault Battlemech.

The Shogun-C isn't common, nor popular amongst our players. Mostly because the -2H is considered a more well-rounded machine.

Just my two cents worth.
« Last Edit: 05 July 2012, 09:29:37 by oldfart3025 »

The Hawk

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #6 on: 04 July 2012, 01:02:06 »
One of my players negotiated his way into the cockpit of a Shogun after some fortunate character creation rolls, though he was still annoyed I didn't give him a Marauder II. ;)  It's since become his signature 'Mech.  Still, having seen it operate in his hands since, I have mixed feelings.  True, jumping assaults in the eras up to 3050 are rare, and jumping assaults with long-range firepower rarer still (when introduced in the old Dragoons sourcebook, basically only the Shogun and its bookmate the Marauder II could manage it).  Yet, twin LRM-15s are mere Catapult firepower levels, and the ammo levels and single PPC as a backup weapon leave something to be desired.  I like the mix of weapons, myself, but the aforesaid player consistently decried the SRMs as useless and ultimately had them replaced with a large laser and extra heat sinks.  I'm not sure he's gotten enough use out of it since to decide whether he likes the swap.

Bottom line: in 3025, not many 'Mechs can do what it can.  In later (or earlier, Star League-style) eras, the jumping-assault-with-long-ranged-weapons role gets filled by the likes of the Pillager or Highlander, and arguably Gauss rifles deliver a better quality of damage.

Ruger

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #7 on: 04 July 2012, 17:10:56 »
Love it, use it regardless of rarity, own 2 of the mini, its a Stalker w/ Arms & Jumpjets !

I agree with these sentiments...have two of the minis myself...and as indicated, play it as a Stalker, but with jump jets...

Ruger
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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #8 on: 04 July 2012, 17:33:22 »
The Shogun-C isn't common, nor popular amongst our players. Mostly because the -2F is considered a more well-rounded machine.

:o Because the 2F can use infernos?  Otherwise the C outclasses it in every regard, and even has DHS.  Its a Highlander IIC that has double the streaks and LRMs and no MPLs.

Southern Coyote

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #9 on: 04 July 2012, 17:50:14 »
I agree with these sentiments...have two of the minis myself...and as indicated, play it as a Stalker, but with jump jets...

Ruger
Problem is, I've never played a Stalker before. 
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Ruger

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #10 on: 04 July 2012, 18:10:32 »
Problem is, I've never played a Stalker before.

It's an assault 'Mech with more guns than heat sink ability, at least in 3025 era...assuming we go this era, bracket fire is your friend, and you use your LRM's at long to medium ranges, maybe adding in a PPC (or large laser or two in the case of the Stalker) if you have a decent shot at 11+ hexes...at short to medium range though, you start using your PPC (large lasers in the case of the Stalker) more than your LRM's (you're likely to be running low on LRM ammo anyways)...then when you get to 3 hexes, you switch to your short range stuff (maybe a bit before if you have a good shot)...You can use more than this in each range bracket, but you have to monitor your heat...

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Southern Coyote

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #11 on: 04 July 2012, 18:39:09 »
It just never jumped out at me.  However, when I found the Shogun, I had to have one.  I had read about them, and when I had the opportunity to pick one up, I had to.  The Stalker, on the other hand, I've had several opportunities to buy one but just never found a variant I liked.
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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #12 on: 04 July 2012, 19:40:15 »
3E...meh.  Again, needs more ammo, esp since the ERPPC takes up most of the sinks. 
I think you mean 2F,  not 3E.


The -2E is rare in our games nowadays, except for the occasional example in merc or militia units. But back in the day, when we played it frequently, it was considered one of the better assault-class 'Mechs at the time. It was largely replaced on our tabletop by the SHG-2F.

The Shogun-2F itself is slowly being relegated to specialized roles in heavy assault brigades, every since the excellent -2H was introduced to our campaigning in more recent times. This Shogun variant lends itself better to playing the part of a "generalist" line assault Battlemech. 
I never cared for the 2F,  the ERPPC just sucked up 5 HS I could use for one of the LRM-15's.
Its only useful to me at 22-23 hexes or AFTER all the LRM ammo is gone. 

The 2H on the other hand has become my favorite model, its just a brute, everything you expect from an SLDF machine.
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oldfart3025

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #13 on: 05 July 2012, 10:25:23 »
:o Because the 2F can use infernos?  Otherwise the C outclasses it in every regard, and even has DHS.  Its a Highlander IIC that has double the streaks and LRMs and no MPLs.


That was a typo. I meant the -2H. Sorry.  :-[

My original post edited.

I guess that losing the lasers was just unpopular. Combined with the ER PPC of the -2H, the lasers offered a respectable level of firepower that allowed the Shogun to maintain a fairly decent, and flexible, level of combat effectiveness if the missiles run out.  Not that I expect the SSRM-2s to run out of ammo in a single scenario. But if a scenario should "flow" into one or more others in a campaign , without the chance to top off the missile bay? If the 'Mech remains in operational condition, it's nice to have more than one energy weapon in the loadout. The lasers also help in conserving SSRM ammo in such an event, as well.  There is also the added problem of supply lines being vulnerable, possibly affecting the resupply of reloads. 

I agree that the Shogun C, when looking at it in terms of technology and throw weight, is superior to any of the earlier variants. But sometimes, the little things can make one consider a broader view when thinking about it. However, this is just the take of those in my playgroup. Others will differ.




I never cared for the 2F,  the ERPPC just sucked up 5 HS I could use for one of the LRM-15's.
Its only useful to me at 22-23 hexes or AFTER all the LRM ammo is gone. 

The 2H on the other hand has become my favorite model, its just a brute, everything you expect from an SLDF machine.

Agree 100% on the SHG-2H.

Sure the old -2E was more heat efficient in terms of the PPC versus the -2F's ER PPC. But it was nice to have that heavy hitting energy weapon, that doesn't suffer from a minimum range modifier, when needed. Considering that the -2F, like the -2E, is less ammo efficient than the -2H and C, and lacks energy-based secondaries, this is considered a critical feature (despite the poor cooling of the -2F). Dropping heat sinks for medium lasers and modernizing the cooling system would be a good idea. But strangely enough, nobody in my group has done so. The Shogun is unusual in that all variants used in our games, past and present, are strictly canon variants. Besides, the SHG-2H eliminates the critical need to refit the -2E/-2F. We have been thoroughly spoiled by the -2H.  :P

 
« Last Edit: 05 July 2012, 10:28:47 by oldfart3025 »

gyedid

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #14 on: 05 July 2012, 13:32:30 »
Oldfart3025, is there any unit you HAVEN'T used in your campaigns?!?!?   ;) :D

cheers,

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Demos

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #15 on: 05 July 2012, 14:38:50 »
Never played it, but like it the -2E as a fluff unit.

The "upgrade" -2F is useful like a hole in the head.
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Col.Hengist

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #16 on: 05 July 2012, 15:23:15 »
If you haven't played a stalker you are missing out. Its the most widely used assault in the IS ( fluff wise anyway ).

 So,here's a lance for you...shogun,crocket,highlander,mad II.
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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #17 on: 05 July 2012, 15:29:09 »
I think a variant of the -2E that uses a LL instead of the PPC (adding armor, LRM ammo and/or SHS) would be nice. Easier heat management at range, no worries about minimum range for the big gun.

oldfart3025

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #18 on: 05 July 2012, 22:56:25 »
Oldfart3025, is there any unit you HAVEN'T used in your campaigns?!?!?   ;) :D

cheers,

Gabe


Mostly some of the newer stuff. That's slowly changing, though.  I can barely wait to get a chance to run a lance full of Omegas. It will be GLORIOUS}:) >:D




I think a variant of the -2E that uses a LL instead of the PPC (adding armor, LRM ammo and/or SHS) would be nice. Easier heat management at range, no worries about minimum range for the big gun.

Not a bad idea.  O0

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #19 on: 05 July 2012, 23:06:32 »
I like it as well. I have yet to find a way to justify tabling all 4 of mine at once however.

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Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #20 on: 06 July 2012, 18:37:01 »
Historical Game, running a company from Zeta Battalion? 
3025 Isn't Historical,  that's last week   ;)


Better yet, Historical SLDF Fire/Assault Lance.
  (I did a 3/5/3 Company of Pillager/Highlander/Shogun Lances)
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Alex Keller

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #21 on: 22 August 2012, 14:02:16 »
Yeah, for those of us who are more into playing historical stuff, the Shogun is still very much alive.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #22 on: 20 October 2017, 22:57:19 »
I always irrationally disliked that the dragoons had unique mechs like the shogun but as a blood spirit collector I can now add it in no prob!

Is there a full mech of the week write up on the shogun and the imp?

Luciora

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #23 on: 20 October 2017, 23:18:54 »
I want a mini of the delicious Klondike version.  Had to settle for kitbashing one from the current sculpt.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #24 on: 21 October 2017, 09:42:29 »
I want a mini of the delicious Klondike version.  Had to settle for kitbashing one from the current sculpt.

Do you have picts you can show?

Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #25 on: 21 October 2017, 17:36:11 »
Holy THREAD-cromancy, 5 years gone, and now its BACK.  (from outer space)  #P
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
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Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #26 on: 21 October 2017, 18:56:46 »
Holy THREAD-cromancy, 5 years gone, and now its BACK.  (from outer space)  #P

Haha like the mech itself! Can we assume this mech would be in storage in all clan caches?

Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #27 on: 21 October 2017, 20:20:07 »
I doubt it would be in any large numbers.

The Dragoons never had many of them even so its not like they were pulling legions out of caches.

It was just rare because it was one of the early amaris war casualties IIRC & never got back into production, so even the dozen or 2 chassis that the Dragoons had was more than the IS had seen in a century.

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Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Luciora

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #28 on: 22 October 2017, 02:41:25 »
Here's one.   

Do you have picts you can show?

Luciora

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #29 on: 22 October 2017, 02:45:55 »
I couldn't help but notice the Crockett and Shogun look like they could be related too.  Loadouts share very similar locations.

Sharpnel

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #30 on: 22 October 2017, 03:28:42 »
They are related, if memory serves.
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Decoy

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #31 on: 22 October 2017, 03:35:43 »
No one's talked about the SHG-3E Shogun or the Shogun C 2 in 3150 yet? The Shogun C 2 looks to be a zombie, equipped with Ferro Lamellor armor. The SHG-3E involves CASE II

Maelwys

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #32 on: 22 October 2017, 04:27:38 »
Not much to discuss, since, IIRC, that's all we know. We don't know if they're just simple swaps, or completely new layouts. There's so much you could do that discussing them is relatively pointless.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #33 on: 22 October 2017, 09:09:16 »

Luciora

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #34 on: 22 October 2017, 12:20:25 »
Where's that info from?   There's no mention in the TROs, unless it was new information presented in Klondike?

They are related, if memory serves.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Talk to me about...The Shogun
« Reply #35 on: 22 October 2017, 14:48:38 »
I've only heard about the mech being an intended replacement for the Stalker, nothing about it being related to the Crockett.

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