Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)  (Read 41337 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #30 on: 09 November 2015, 01:59:19 »
Well, having a Savage Wolf for your merc commander's personal ride does insure that there's very few headhunter units that will actually be able to take him in a fight.
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #31 on: 09 November 2015, 09:51:21 »
Well, having a Savage Wolf for your merc commander's personal ride does insure that there's very few headhunter units that will actually be able to take him in a fight.

That's an interesting way to think of a Mad Cat mk IV: a Clan Shiro... only with firepower.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #32 on: 09 November 2015, 10:19:24 »
More than anything else, having a Savage Wolf as your personal ride is the ultimate statement of power and wealth for a mercenary commander. I have seen the nearly obscene C-Bill price (91-93 million C-Bills?!). That's nearly enough for an entire company of Assault 'Mechs.

Only if those assaults are all SFE machines, and running light on advanced tech.  Still that price is about 80% of a mixed weight company of advance tech machines, say about half with XL engines.  Hell that much cash won't quite buy a dropship, even a small one, but can be a decent down payment on a Fortress or Overlord.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #33 on: 09 November 2015, 13:07:25 »
Only if those assaults are all SFE machines, and running light on advanced tech.  Still that price is about 80% of a mixed weight company of advance tech machines, say about half with XL engines.  Hell that much cash won't quite buy a dropship, even a small one, but can be a decent down payment on a Fortress or Overlord.
I'm sure many would rather buy some dropships full of dozens of Locusts but you can't ignore the Savage Wolf's appeal, especially considering many only look at BV and ignore the headaches of C-Bill driven Fasanomics     
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #34 on: 09 November 2015, 20:27:53 »
A question that I've been meaning to ask: the Savage Wolf's fluff says that Anastasia Kerensky received a Savage Wolf from the Foxes, possibly for assisting them during the 'Mech's development.

I haven't read and don't own those novels (Wolf Hunters?), is the reason why she got that gift written anywhere in it?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #35 on: 09 November 2015, 21:44:23 »
It's a little ambiguous, reading it you may think that she's buying it as much as having it gifted to her. Regardless though, there isn't any dialogue or deal apparent other than her taking possession of it.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #36 on: 09 November 2015, 23:23:11 »
I'm sure many would rather buy some dropships full of dozens of Locusts but you can't ignore the Savage Wolf's appeal, especially considering many only look at BV and ignore the headaches of C-Bill driven Fasanomics   

Oh I admit it's shiny.  I'm just not thinking it is three to four assault mechs shiny.  Assault mechs with XL engines no less.  And it might have alot of BV for one unit, but I doubt it would come up to a fifth of that company's, or the part of the company it could buy.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #37 on: 09 November 2015, 23:30:21 »
The cost figures in BattleTech are frankly absurd.  An XXL engine may cost 50 million c-bills in the late 3070s, but 70 years later it will not.  This is supported by how there are production and fairly common XXL engine 'Mechs in 3145 (Dasher II, Prey Seeker, Gunsmith, Vulpes, Jackalope).  I can't give a good estimate for how long it may have gotten, but XXLs are the next generation of XLs - with price to match.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #38 on: 10 November 2015, 01:23:56 »
You can build a small, slow, unarmed Dropship for that amount, something like an Aurora class. The cheaper 80 ton SFE Assaults like the Victor are around 10 million so you can buy 2 lances of those. Something like a Templar III is 25 million so about 3 to 4 of those. But BT C-bill prices of military equipment seem to relate to raw cost rather than market value - unadjusted for intrinsic value and availability, which is more left up to the GM to decide.

End of the day though the implied principles remain the same. There are limiting factors to Mech production, a high-low mix is still required, technology marches on.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #39 on: 10 November 2015, 01:37:33 »
I wonder if the old cost chart for the XXL engine is true these days. There are IIRC three XXL 'mechs that the Seafoxes are selling and the Davions are churning out Vulpixes (sp) and Gunsmiths like they can lose them.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #40 on: 10 November 2015, 02:55:47 »
C-bill cost in BT is very suggestive (the AS7-D Atlas cost the same in 3145 as it did in 3025) The cost of the Savage Wolf is comically high because no one should take it too seriously.

Though it's also totally possible that the Sea Foxes are simply milking spheroids love of shinny new clan tech killing machines ;)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #41 on: 10 November 2015, 07:32:12 »
I can think of multiple real world examples where costs skyrocketed to get capability beyond what seems sensible.

A fairly safe example was the 20thC Dreadnought race. A doubling of the number of large caliber weapons blew price out of the water compared to pre Dreadnoughts and then the  rapid increase in caliber demanded bigger hulls until physics got in the road. Yet single more capable ships were considered more valuable than multiple less capable hulls as shown in the reduction in capital ship numbers even without Washington.

With its Starship Troopers influence you even see this in Battletech. It is excepted without question that a single BattleMech with a highly trained pilot is superior to a group of tanks. This of course then drives costs ipwards as TPTB need Mechs rather than tanks to match those enemies who hope to buy their way to tje top. So we see a cycle of increasing cost.

Sure  Savage Wolf may cost the same as 4 assault Mechs, but it is really a cavalry Mech. It will out maneuver those assaults requiring cavalry Mechs to counter it. Of course one expensive cav Mech had lower ongoing costs than two cheap cavalry mechs so the cycle continues.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #42 on: 10 November 2015, 08:35:14 »
The cost figures in BattleTech are frankly absurd.  An XXL engine may cost 50 million c-bills in the late 3070s, but 70 years later it will not.  This is supported by how there are production and fairly common XXL engine 'Mechs in 3145 (Dasher II, Prey Seeker, Gunsmith, Vulpes, Jackalope).  I can't give a good estimate for how long it may have gotten, but XXLs are the next generation of XLs - with price to match.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought XXL engines made their debut in 'Mechs on Solaris where everything costs more. If that's the case, moving them from very low production rates (as needed, 1-2 a year, hand built) to regular military production (1-2 a month or more, assembly line factory), that should help drive down the cost.

I think they will always cost more than an XL engine, but the price difference will be more comparable to the differences between SFE, LFE, XLE.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #43 on: 10 November 2015, 10:01:40 »
Costs have never really made sense.
Light Engines are cheaper than XLs, despite, at their introduction, certainly being more cutting edge tech.
ER Lasers cost ~twice as much as regulars, despite being regularly available for a good century.
An Engine Cost curve of 1/2.5/3/5 would probably be more fitting.
The costs also never factor in the realities of logistics, like Endosteel requiring Orbital Factories; That's probably a consideration that results in price if you have reason to believe they might be taken from you.
Anyways, different topic.
If the projected cost was correct, barely anyone would buy this mech.
If it's only the cost of two assault mechs, it's a good buy both for prestige reasons and to fill out elite formations, as your best pilots may get exponential results with the best mechs.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #44 on: 10 November 2015, 10:10:17 »
It's powerful mech, well armored for combat. With flexibility of changing equipment out for better mission specific equipment, is attractive since it's Omni.

I don't like the hot running nature of the engine.  I think i like the PR prototypes which i believe that the mech is more durable for purposes for Mercs who don't want wait for nearest Sea Fox dealership to send out tow truck out to fix the XXL and replace the regular Clan FF Armor.   Clan tech is becoming at least Uncommon verses rare or hard to obtain now the Inner Sphere is producing Clan Tech more.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #45 on: 10 November 2015, 12:07:27 »
I think i like the PR prototypes which i believe that the mech is more durable for purposes for Mercs who don't want wait for nearest Sea Fox dealership to send out tow truck out to fix the XXL and replace the regular Clan FF Armor.   Clan tech is becoming at least Uncommon verses rare or hard to obtain now the Inner Sphere is producing Clan Tech more.

There are always other options for Mercs who don't want the technical difficulties of an XXL or Ferro-Lam. The Mad Dog Mk IV could be considered the "budget" model, still carrying the effective armor of an 80-ton 'Mech while gaining in simplicity and internal durability via the normal XL.

If even a normal Clan XL is out of the question, then the Foxes appear to offer a good number of cheap IS omnis: the Men Shen, Avalanche, Sunder and Black Hawk-KU all make appearances on their RAT, suggesting that they trade for those 'Mechs in order to resell them.

But if you can afford top-of-the-line products, a Savage Wolf is an extremely solid purchase.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #46 on: 10 November 2015, 12:27:30 »
To me, the Savage Wolf seems more like a commander's ride than that of a regular trooper. Much like the Shiro, Warwolf, Atlas III (with the shields), these designs focus more on defensive benefits at the expense of raw firepower. With the XXL engine that may seem counter intuitive, but in game play, the XXL engine is likely to be disabled before something resulting in total 'Mech destruction or pilot death.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #47 on: 10 November 2015, 23:27:16 »
The cost figures in BattleTech are frankly absurd.  An XXL engine may cost 50 million c-bills in the late 3070s, but 70 years later it will not.  This is supported by how there are production and fairly common XXL engine 'Mechs in 3145 (Dasher II, Prey Seeker, Gunsmith, Vulpes, Jackalope).  I can't give a good estimate for how long it may have gotten, but XXLs are the next generation of XLs - with price to match.

I'd agree here.  There's no way the Sharks could turn a profit selling for it's "listed" amount as no bean counters would allow their government to buy it.

As for the `Mech, I've used it several times and it's not a 'mech you just run around blinding firing weapons with.  You do have to watch your heat gauges and balance excess heat with the moment and the firepower needed in that moment.  Looks good doing it though :)

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #48 on: 17 November 2015, 23:56:22 »
I feel like this would be the perfect ride for the Bounty Hunter in 3150. 

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #49 on: 18 November 2015, 01:00:30 »
I feel like this would be the perfect ride for the Bounty Hunter in 3150.

I agree, but somewhat strangely, he's rocking a Slowki these days.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #50 on: 18 November 2015, 19:35:55 »
I agree, but somewhat strangely, he's rocking a Slowki these days.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #51 on: 18 November 2015, 20:10:58 »
Where that's coming from?

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #52 on: 18 November 2015, 23:30:09 »
Oh that's right, I knew I saw the BH's ride somewhere recently.  I wonder if anyone's tried a BH Savage Wolf in the creation forum, or if any of you would. 

Back to the Savage Wolf, I wish there was a new Mechcommander game with this in it, it's my fav game platform and this would be sweet.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #53 on: 19 November 2015, 08:07:02 »
Great article.

I love pretty much everything about this mech except for, as has been stated by many others, that engine.  Sure, moving 5/8 with that much Ferro-Lamellor and a good weapons loadout is great and all, but I can't really justify that many c-bills for a single unit.  Lifetime costs may be lower for a single unit, as opposed to the 3+ similar performing machines you could buy, but post battle costs are going to be way higher and you're going to feel the bite of attrition sooner due to less available units.  I'd rather downgrade to a 300XL and add some jump jets and a Watchdog CEWS or something.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #54 on: 19 November 2015, 08:08:13 »
Has anyone used a Mad Cat Mk4 in action yet?  How it feel or how the machine in a campaign.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #55 on: 19 November 2015, 09:31:07 »
Ran it in a deathmatch style game. Pure evil. The armor can take quite a punch, especially from small scale crit seekers like SRMs.
It helped that most people on the table had never used Ferro Lamellor or a Mad Cat IV before, so they had a hard time adjusting.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #56 on: 19 November 2015, 12:36:20 »
I went up against one in a random-mech deathmatch.  The guy running it pulled it as his second mech, but he was kind of a cranky Luddite and didn't try too hard on account of his hatred for Clantech and XXL Engines.  He still managed to thrash a bunch of other mechs, though.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #57 on: 19 November 2015, 13:18:16 »
I went up against one in a random-mech deathmatch.  The guy running it pulled it as his second mech, but he was kind of a cranky Luddite and didn't try too hard on account of his hatred for Clantech and XXL Engines.  He still managed to thrash a bunch of other mechs, though.
Least it's not like Celebrity Deathmatch with BattleMechs, Anastasia Kerensky verse Julian Davion. FIGHT!  Templar III KO. :(
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #58 on: 19 November 2015, 19:15:46 »
I view the prices as what it would be in a 3025 era context, so yes it may cost 92ish million C-bills but that's if it was built in 3025. In 3145 the price is probably a bit less than that...

On a side note in 3025 a C-bill was stated to equal 5 USD in 1986 monies which would be 10.85 USD in 2015...

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf)
« Reply #59 on: 20 November 2015, 22:18:25 »
Might be useful if the various Era reports listed the price of weapons and equipment. Then you would know the cost and what items were common during the era.

On the other hand the the cbill cost would change by era and someone would feel compelled to compile that. Best to be avoided.

So the Savage Wolf will probably retain that cost. But on the bright side one super expensive mech takes less pilots, less food, less water, less clothing and less dropship space. So the question is how many hellstars could you have bought for the same price?
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