Author Topic: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers  (Read 2575 times)

Nightsong

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What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« on: 20 May 2017, 01:52:23 »
Just a thought experiment: What if the frequently mentioned lack of fusion engines for vehicles mentioned in TRO3025 and 3026 caused the Inner Sphere to dig out Chemical Lasers during the Succession Wars? After all, we have the technology today, it could easily be some straw the Inner Sphere would have grabbed at.

So let's assume the Inner Sphere managed to develop Chemical Lasers (To the same equivalent of the Clan Chemical Lasers, or maybe even with an ammo deficiency, either ~2/3rds or 1/2 of the shot per ton level)

What mods would you see out there? The two big ones that popped into my head were the Ontos (An obvious one, considering how much weight the thing wastes in Heatsinks/power converters) and the Schrek (I love the idea of a city-fighter version of it). Don't have SAW up at the moment but both of the above would work well.

Ontos: Replace the 8 MLs with MCLs and 5 tons of ammunition, the remaining weight replaces the LRM-5s with 2 LRM-20s and 6 tons of ammunition.

Schrek: Replaces the 3 PPCs and 20 tons of heatsinks with one Large Laser to use the existing heatsinks, and 5 Chemical Lasers+11 tons of ammunition. over 50% more firepower albeit at shorter range. Would be a brute in the cities or built up areas.

Cipher

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #1 on: 20 May 2017, 02:32:29 »
Goblin, probably. A medium tank mounting a large laser could really benefit from not having to lug around converters, since it already has so little tonnage to begin with.
And it is old enough to be common design, so there are bunch lying around, waiting for a cheap upgrade.

Code: [Select]
Goblin Medium Tank GBL-Chemical Large Laser
Inner Sphere
45 tons 
BV: 648
Cost: 764,875 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 180 ICE

Internal: 25
Armor: 144
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Front                       5       35
Right                       5       27
Left                        5       27
Rear                        5       20
Turret                      5       35

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Machine Gun                     FR     0
Large Chem Laser (IS Alt)         TU     6
SRM 4                           TU     3

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Half Machine Gun Ammo           BD   100
Large Chemical Laser Ammo       BD    10
Large Chemical Laser Ammo       BD    10
SRM 4 Ammo                      BD    25

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Standard                        BD


Carrying Capacity:
Troops - 3.0 tons
------------------------------

Swapping the Goblin's Large Laser with a Chem Laser let's you increase armor, carry a foot platoon, and allows the mounting of an SRM-4. Obviously, with lower shots you'd either keep the one tonne bay or drop the SRM for ammo, but twenty shots is pretty decent. The larger infantry bay is similar to the eventual canon upgrade.


Code: [Select]
Goblin Medium Tank GBL-Chemical Medium Laser
Inner Sphere
45 tons 
BV: 700
Cost: 834,475 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 180 ICE

Internal: 25
Armor: 144
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Front                       5       35
Right                       5       27
Left                        5       27
Rear                        5       20
Turret                      5       35

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Machine Gun                     FR     0
Medium Chem Laser (IS Alt)        TU     2
Medium Chem Laser (IS Alt)        TU     2
Medium Chem Laser (IS Alt)        TU     2
LRM 5                           TU     2
Medium Chem Laser (IS Alt)        TU     2

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Half Machine Gun Ammo           BD   100
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo      BD    30
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo      BD    30
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo      BD    30
LRM 5 Ammo                      BD    24

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Standard                        BD


Carrying Capacity:
Troops - 3.0 tons

Platoon of infantry, four medium lasers and the token long range weapon. Swap for SRM-4 with tonne of infernos for anti-infantry work. Or drop the infantry bay to a single tonne, drop a medium laser and mount an LRM-10 in the turret for a more balanced design.

Code: [Select]
Goblin Medium Tank GBL-Dual Chemical Large
Inner Sphere
45 tons 
BV: 639
Cost: 776,475 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 180 ICE

Internal: 25
Armor: 128
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Front                       5       30
Right                       5       24
Left                        5       24
Rear                        5       20
Turret                      5       30

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Machine Gun                     FR     0
Large Chem Laser (IS Alt)         TU     6
Large Chem Laser (IS Alt)         TU     6

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Half Machine Gun Ammo           BD   100
Large Chemical Laser Ammo      None    10
Large Chemical Laser Ammo      None    10
Large Chemical Laser Ammo      None    10

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Standard                        BD


Carrying Capacity:
Troops - 1.0 tons

Dual large chemical lasers, only fifteen shots and standard armor. Machine gun could be dropped for ten shots. Squad of infantry.


« Last Edit: 20 May 2017, 02:34:38 by Cipher »

Maingunnery

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #2 on: 20 May 2017, 05:02:40 »

The fluff from TO gives us some clues:

"Chemical lasers were actually the first effective energy weapons able to physically damage relatively robust target"

"Though reliance on chemical “ammunition” (which remains as energetic and highly toxic as the early laser versions)"

So early/primitive versions did exist and they likely got an equal amount of shots from their fuel. I think that they were a lot heavier and had shorter range.
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Chaeronea

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #4 on: 20 May 2017, 12:02:07 »
One of our home-brew campaigns has the Periphery using chemical lasers as old tech the same way they use RL pods, but they could fit with a lot of the laser/ICE vehicle variants mentioned in the TROs. And could also give rise to new variants...

<cracks knuckles>   So let's go!

Vedette - replace the AC-5 and ton of ammo with a large chem laser and 4 tons ammo. There's also a Capellan variant which replaces the AC-6 and ammo with a pair of medium lasers, six heat sinks and a power amplifier - put in four medium chemical lasers with four tons of ammo instead for an urban combat vehicle. Optionally, rip out one chemical laser and 1 ton of ammo and replace them with four machine guns (total armament is 3 medium chemical lasers and 5 MGs)

Condor hovertank - replace 2 medium lasers, 6 heat sinks, 0.2 ton power amplifier and 0.3 ton cargo with 3 medium chemical lasers, 4 tons of ammo and a forward machine gun. (Once Star League tech starts reappearing you can replace the new machine gun and a ton of  chem laser ammo with an AMS and a ton of ammo for it)

Skulker - replace medium laser, 3 heat sinks, power amplifier and cargo with 1 medium chem laser & 2 tons ammo (it's intended to operate away from base for prolonged periods) and either a machine gun with 1 ton ammo (for anti-personnel use) or a vehicular flamer with 1 ton ammo

Scorpion - a courier or scout variant has two medium lasers, 6 heat sinks (lightening the turret enough for the power amplifier) and a ton of cargo space. Swap that out for 4 medium chemical lasers, 4 tons of ammo and 1 extra machine gun, use the cargo bay to carry an infantry squad and you've got an IFV with quite a bit of close-range punch. For the basic tank version, replace the AC-5 and 1 ton ammo with a large chemical laser and 4 tons of ammo (which lightens the turret by half a ton which can be used for another forward machine gun)

Pegasus - replace 1 medium laser and 3 heat sinks with 1 medium chemical laser, 2 tons of ammo and 1 ton SRM ammo (doubling base ammo), Replace 0.1 ton power amplifier with 0.1 ton cargo for a total of 1/2 ton cargo.

Saladin - replace AC-20 and 3 tons ammo with 8 medium chemical lasers, 7 tons ammo and 2 tons armour (doubling the armour protection of the vehicle)

Bulldog - replace large laser and 8 heat sinks with 2 large chemical lasers and 3 tons ammo. (power amplifier tonnage is used to upgrade turret mechanism)

Manticore - yes, it's got a fusion engine but the default heat sinks are taken up by the PPC. So replace the medium laser and 3 heat sinks with 3 medium chemical lasers and 1 ton ammo

Partisan AA vehicle - replace four AC-5s and 2 tons ammo with 4 large chemical lasers and 8 tons ammo, add one LRM-10 and 2 tons ammo (turret mechanism is lightened by 1 ton to make room for 2nd ton of LRM ammo)

Neptune submarine - replace large laser and 8 heat sinks with large chemical laser with 4 tons ammo, 2 tons LRT ammo, 2 tons SRT ammo  (tripling torpedo launcher ammo)

Nightsong

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #5 on: 21 May 2017, 05:33:47 »
Nice mods, though the only one i'd have a quibble on is the Partisan. The Quad AC/5s are far better AA guns than the LCLs, particularly if you're using flak rounds, so except for the LRMs, that kind of defeats the purpose. It's not a bad design, it just stops it from being the AA battery that the Partisan is meant to be.

Chaeronea

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #6 on: 21 May 2017, 10:11:39 »
Don't you know that Shiny Kit Syndrome (the urge to use something new just because it's new) is an integral part of Battletech> Just look at some of the later TROs ;)

Xeno426

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #7 on: 25 July 2017, 12:36:27 »
What would the stats on these early IS chem lasers be? The same as the Clan counterparts? Or slightly heavier/bulkier?

Maingunnery

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #8 on: 25 July 2017, 12:39:27 »
What would the stats on these early IS chem lasers be? The same as the Clan counterparts? Or slightly heavier/bulkier?
Same damage potential but heavier and limited number of shots.
Chem ammunition is a clan innovation, so older chem lasers would likely have integrated fuel tanks.
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Nightsong

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #9 on: 25 July 2017, 13:14:26 »
My rationale for the less ammo per ton was less efficient chemicals and bulkier storage. Same capability to create free CASE for the Clans also allows better storage capability, while the IS had to deal with bulkier equipment to prevent injuries/toxic hazards for th crew.

Siden Pryde

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #10 on: 25 July 2017, 19:07:59 »
Intersting idea.  One of those "where were these during the succession wars?" things that crop up from time to time when the devs create new items and units.

My rationale for the less ammo per ton was less efficient chemicals and bulkier storage. Same capability to create free CASE for the Clans also allows better storage capability, while the IS had to deal with bulkier equipment to prevent injuries/toxic hazards for th crew.
Makes sense.  Also lets you use design programs without creating custom equipment.  Just a note on the record sheet that it has x less shots.

truetanker

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Re: What If: Early IS Chemical Lasers
« Reply #11 on: 25 July 2017, 19:17:20 »
Vedette - There's also a Capellan variant which replaces the AC-6 and ammo with a pair of medium lasers, six heat sinks and a power amplifier -

Wow... I'd want to mount one of those next time!

TT

PS: just ribbing ya, nice variants!
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