Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC  (Read 16103 times)

Iron Mongoose

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Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« on: 28 January 2011, 02:19:03 »
Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC

Love it or hate it, the Shadow Hawk is a mech that gets talked about.  Its Clan younger brother, by contrast, does not.  In this article, I hope to examine what this mech is and what it can do, and in doing so to change that, and give an interesting mech a chance to be talked about.

It is important to put it in context, which is both easy and hard.  On the one hand, by name its the successor to the Shadow Hawk of the Unseen era, a problematic if endearing mech that lived in the shadow of its brothers due to lack luster firepower and poorly defined role on the battlefield, often simply summed up as 'support' simply because nothing more substantive can be said.  On the other, it is the tactical successor to the 3050 Clan omnis, by virtue of being part of just the second wave of Clan designs, and the first of the 'second line' non-omni designs.  Its design philosophy is not so much then intended to reflect its nominal parent, the Shadow Hawk, but to reflect its adoptive parents, mechs like the Stormcrow and Nova, in who's footsteps it must follow to set the tone for how the Clans design mechs.  It is in this role that we see almost all of its design choices.

In marked contrast to most Clan mechs, the first thing one notes is not the weapons or the speed, but the weight.  Relative to its father, its shed ten tons to come it at just 45, equaling the Ice Ferret or Phoenix Hawk.  As a result, even a traditional standard engine is able to propel the lightened mech to 6/9/6 (yes, a full complement of jets is used here), though weight is saved by endo and ferro technologies.  The result is something of a cheap and cheerful mech, durable with 7.5 tons of armor coming in just a half ton shy of max, and mainly on the arms, and quick enough to keep up and get around the battlefield.

The weapon load takes the same road, while following in the footsteps of the old 2H by being slightly inefficient.  By tonnage, the main weapons system is a quartet of SSRM 2s, which share an almost impossible to use two tons of ammo.  While able to kick out 16 points of damage, and easy on the heat an endurance, they don't compare to the two medium pulse lasers, or the ER medium and small that support them and form the mech's true main guns.  The weapons work well together, with the SSRMs and MPLs having a unified 12 hex range profile, with the ER ML coming in just over the top and the SL as something of a half ton after thought which still manages to hit for five damage.  The base ten heatsinks keep the mech fairly well grounded unless the SRMs are hitting a lot or you jump a lot, but in those cases heat can build up. 

The result is a mech that is a good, tough, low end in fighter.  As a show case of Clan tech, the IIC manages to hit over twice as hard as the older 2H, while being faster, lighter, and quite nearly as tough.  But in contrast to the 2H which had legitimately solid range for its era, it has a clearly defined role as a brawler, lacks a clear main gun in the looks department, and in general is a lot more stream lined in its design, reflecting well its clan heritage.  Its possible to see a link to the forgettable 2D, but I actually like the IIC, so I'm prepared to look the other way.  Despite the use of SRM2s all over it, it actually works in its role, and I do recommend it for anyone looking for a good low end Clan mech for getting down and dirty.

The launch of the IIC also saw a variant offered in the IIC 2.  Rather than follow... well, that other Shadow Hawk, this one takes on the 2K as the direct fire support variant.  Two Clan ER LLs are the main guns, with three SPLs and an ER SL in support.  While the SPLs are, in true Shadow Hawk tradition, deeply inefficient, its largely a non-issue since heat problems ensure that most of the guns won't be used anyway, as only the base ten sinks are provided for the 24 heat of the LLs.  Its a better anti-Clan unit, able to spar with top of the line omnis at range rather than having to wade in like the IIC1, which is best for slaughtering IS units.  In the modern rules set, it also becomes a potent infantry killer (though unclanlike, the IIC1's SSRM2s could have filled that role as inferno carriers under pre-BMR rules, making a good way to use that second ton of ammo).  And in a pinch, should the IIC2 be forced to close and duke it out with the small lasers, it is a zombie mech with its LLs in the torsos and an SL in each the CT and head, so it can last till battle's end and contribute, offering endurance that was a trademark of the older Shadow Hawks (more a result of apathy than durability, though they had good armor on the H and K).  The IIC2 is a huge heat hog, but more viable against more modern opponents with its range.

TRO Project Phoenix was a wonderful breath of life into the older unseen mechs, and the Shadow Hawk IIC was no exception, despite a bit of somewhat intentionally done new toy syndrome, and both new variants offered something good.

While sticking with the same base chassis, the IIC3 offered the closest take on the 2H yet by featuring a big main gun, in this case a Heavy large laser, though they stuck it on the opposite torso and the art's very Phoenix-y.  Its not killer, given the ninja like looks of the old art, but still.  In the style of both its IIC2 brother and its 2D ancestor, it uses a lot of tiny weapons for backup, in this case four micro lasers and a very useful MPL.  More over, it actually manages to be loaded with heatsinks, allowing the MPL and HLL to be used even with constant jumping, and a full running alpha.  Power at any appreciable range is fairly low, with just two weapons reaching beyond four hexes, and even at point blank range damage is a bit questionable, but damage concentration is good, the micros can crit seek a bit, and its still got its speed, durability and cheapness on its side.  They're all pretty reasonable BV values, but the 3 is positively anemic at 1471, which is half of the newest Marauder IIC and just 41 points more than the IS's 5M, for a tough, quick mech with a head capper and an MPL.  Sounds solid to me, and its a great mech to take to fill out a star when you don't want a light mech.

The IIC4 is mostly a fix of the IIC1, with an ATM 6 subbing in for the SSRM array and ER SL.  With only two tons of ammo, its a bit limited (the record sheets recommend ER and HE, but I might take HE and standard, to offer a pairing with the ER ML at mid range).  Its not quite the upgrade it might seem, since Clan streaks are excellent, but it offers the flexibility of more range, or of a slightly more brutal punch in close, and despite the lack of streak heat saving, heat remains manageable at only +3 even on a jumping alpha.  I'd probably take it over the IIC1, but I love ATMs and loath size 2 missile racks, even used en mass like that, so I've got my bias there.  It does bring some ammo issues with it, but I'd rather run out than be sure never ever to run out, and on the modern battlefield even some token ranged fire can be nice.  Largely up to the user, but nice to have for those who opt for it.

In contrast to Project Phoenix, which had the dual mission of reviving the old designs and show casing new tech, PPU was all about shiny things, and the Shadow Hawk IIC5 was a sad victim.  The designers again retained the same basic layout from '55, but replaced the weapons with two heat causing Plasma Cannons (the 0 damage 3d6 heat weapons, not the Cappies' lovely heat causing PPCs) and three APGRs.  While nice weapons, both are really intended to be secondary to something else (the  Night Wolf is one of the better uses for the Plasma Cannon I've seen lately, though I'm sure there's a better one out there, and APGRs are basicly super machine guns) and the IIC5 fails to team them with anything more powerful than its ninja kicks (which at nine damage equals the power from the whole weapons array).  That is not to say it is without its uses.  It's potent against armor units, and turning it loose on infantry can lead to a PBI holocaust.  In a pure and limited support role, it can even cause a bit of discomfort for enemy mech forces.  But, some fluff in '85 about it being chopped in half by a Berserker that it ineffectually lit on fire rings true; it's almost unable to defeat another mech, save the same bug mechs the 2D was relegated to fighting.  Shoot, I'm not even sure it could take a 2D, and the cool running 2H and 2K would give it a significant fight.  Hardly a ringing endorsement for an ultra modern Clan mech.

The IIC 6 changes things around.  Rather than something of a joke, it is a return to form with a big, ammo fed weapon over the left torso and some solid secondaries.  While it starts with the same ageing chassis, it adds and XL engine for the first time, freeing up much needed weight for a big gun, and moves the jets around to clear space in the torso, which togehter represents the most radical chance in a decade, but its needed to free room.  The designers wanted a big gun, and the HAG20 was used, with good reach and damage, backed by two MPLs and an SPL (which by this time has assumed its anti-PBI role in the rules, making the PBI-focused IIC5 even more of a joke, since its not even needed to support its brother).  Running cold and supplied with three tons of HAG ammo, it can pound on foes at range all it pleases before finishing them with increased power and accuracy at short range.  Its probably the pick of the bunch.  Yes, it gives up pure power at range to the heat plagued 2, and over all total damage to the 1 and 4, but it uses its power more efficiently, at better range, with better heat management.  If you've never taken a Shadow Hawk IIC and want to take one you'll like, take this one.  You'll like it.

TRO 85 gave us one last take on the Shadow Hawk's clan incarnation, and unlike the very conservative evolution it had so far undergone, the IIC7 changed everything.  Remaining was the endo structure, though in a much more traditional form, but it now houses a smaller XL engine and the improved jump jets that were so featured in this latest tome for a 5/8/8 movement profile.  They even managed to find that last half ton to max the armor. But the key to understanding this new mech is two tons of liquid storage, which are meant to house reaction mass for the jets; the Shadow Hawk IIC7 is intended to fight... in spaaaace!!!  Really, it was designed by the Ravens to protect or attack space stations, hence the IJJs and storage space.  The remainder of the tonnage goes to an ARM6, ER large, ER medium and pulse medium, offering a blend of the 2 and 4.  Over all, its one of the more flexible offerings, with the ATMs in their ER mode (now with three tons of ammo, enabling all three varieties) and LL at range with the MLs and HE ammo taking over in close, but power is hardly great for a Clan mech, especially since it can no longer claim to be cheap and cheerful (at 1999, BV is almost a hundred points above the IIC6, and 236 above the old IIC1).  On the ground, most of that flexibility is wasted anyway, since with such high jumping movement it can dictate range on most opponents and focus on either long or short range.  Yes, it can highlight its opponent's weakness, if they have one, but against a generalist that's not specialized for space it lacks power to compete at either long or short range.  In space... I don't have the rules experience to say, but its largely the only show in town, so there's no reason to use anything else, save the Whammy IIC7, which seems like a waste of a perfectly good Whammy chassis. 

So what is the Shadow Hawk IIC?  In a sense, I think that from its inception in 55, it was intended to be a second line Everymech.  That was in some ways the role of the old Shadow Hawk, to fill what ever role needed, and not any one in particular, and that was what was called for as mechs were rolled out to fill in the gaps for the Clans' second line.  By sticking with the simply lay out and solid but uninspired weapon sets, the Shadow Hawk IIC does this.  It even keeps some of its father's charm but taking weapons that have some faults, some weaknesses, and succeeding in spite of them.  Like the Shadow Hawk, it did evolve some very good models.  But, in many ways it is anything but a Shadow Hawk.  It tends not to be a support mech, but a faster brawler or a skirmisher.  It can easily work alone, in contrast to the group focus of many Shadow Hawks.  It actually has quite a bit of power.  And, the basis of its weapons is totally different, the feel is totally off.  Even the look is off.  Do they share more than just their names?

Tactically no.  But in spirit, yes.  They are Everymechs.  They are troopers, dependable mechs that will be there for you, never to excel, but to get their jobs done.  And I don't think we could have our universe without their kind.
« Last Edit: 28 January 2011, 10:57:44 by Iron Mongoose »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #1 on: 28 January 2011, 04:44:55 »
Good writeup, but you forgot the IIC 8 with ECM, 2xHML, LRM10, ERLL and 2xMcPL.


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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #2 on: 28 January 2011, 09:23:35 »
I don't think I've ever used a Shadow Hawk IIC, although there's several I like the sound of.

With the original's Streaks, keep in mind that the lasers are hitting rather hard, so once a smaller 'Mech gets opened up, they're going to do a real number, and they offer a wildcard option against other Clanners, even heavier ones.  It's not much of a compelling reason to avoid it (that's what the sawed off shotgun we call the LB 20-X is for), but sometimes luck can change everything.  As a side note, I don't know when that change was, but they certainly weren't able to carry Infernos under the BMR Revised.  At the time the Shadow Hawk IIC would have been designed, though, I think it's likely that's exactly what the designers intended.

The 2 might've been better served with an ER PPC and a different light weapons mix, I think, but if you're not afraid to run hot at the drop of a hat, I can see it working.  Definitely going to make Spheroids twitchy, too, and using one against Level 1 hardware can be just plain evil, I bet.

The 3 is in deep trouble against some Clan 'Mechs but to round out a Star, yeah, I can see it.

No particular opinion on the 4.

The 5 is... special.  On the other hand, it's cheaper than the Phoenix Hawk IIC 6 despite doing a very similar job, so... yeah.  Armor units will hate it with a special passion, though, as will infantry or BA.  It isn't needed to support several other Shadow Hawks, but larger, more prominent units (like the Hellstar) that aren't really properly equipped to deal with infantry or BA.  With stealth, TSM, and other little goodies not unknown in Blakist hands, it's also going to screw them over sometimes... and again, with a Hellstar or something similar wandering around, it may just be setting them up for the larger 'Mech to rip them apart.

The 6 I'd need to try out.  My experience with HAGs is all 30s and 40s.  Looks decent enough, though.

The 7 is a screwball.  The fuel is too limited in space, it has no weapons range (literally - it can only shoot things in its own hex, and then it's automatically at long range!), and it's still not that maneuverable.  Old 3025 light fighters (or even the primitive ASFs) can frequently use it for a punching bag.  There's been a couple of proposed uses - asteroid fighting, boarding attempts, and that sort of extremely rare, screwball assignment - but generally, it's a solution in search of a problem.  Unlike the Partisan HD, though, it's able to deal with being shaken off a hull, which is a plus.  On the ground, it's more effective.

I really like the 8 as a return to the general all-arounder role the old Shadow Hawk did, but doing it with panache.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #3 on: 28 January 2011, 10:49:32 »
Good writeup, but you forgot the IIC 8 with ECM, 2xHML, LRM10, ERLL and 2xMcPL.

What product is the 8 in?

As for the inferno rules, I meant pre-BMR.  I don't remember what we called that.  Compedium or something like that, I think.  Its what you get for doing this while sipping sake at 11 at night.

Lastly, I realized this last night after I posted, the IIC6 uses and XL.  In the middle of the night, my son needed a diaper change and there in the dark, I was pondering and I realized that I noted that they moved the jets, but not why they needed to move them, and it hit me.  But by then I was much too tired.  So thouse edits will be going in.
« Last Edit: 28 January 2011, 10:54:30 by Iron Mongoose »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #4 on: 28 January 2011, 12:06:19 »
Excellent write-up as always, IM.

Never been a fan of the SH IIC. Like the Griffin IIC and PH IIC, it just never really felt like its forebear. Lackluster artwork, too. As a result, I have to admit, my experience with it is limited. But let's take a look.

The vanilla model isn't bad. It does exactly what it's supposed to do: whatever you need it to. It's the kind of mech you can slot into just about any situation, aside from fire support, and expect it to at least not be completely worthless. It's the sort of solid trooper that you build TO&E's out of. You don't always know what you'll be up against in a campaign situation, and barring Omnimech access, the backbone of your forces will need to be a fairly cheap, workhorse design that can cover any gaps your specialists might leave in a given battle. The vanilla IIC does that admirably.

The IIC2 is far too painful on the heat scale to really be a factor in most battles. I'd avoid it. And the 3 is generally reliable, but has so little ranged firepower it suffers. The HLL is a solid headcapper, but at that point you're basically just taking a Packhunter with anti-infantry abilities and a +1 modifier. Not that great.

The 4 varient is exactly what I want from this mech. Solid weapons layout, some token long range options, and an excellent short range battery. I'm with you, IM, in terms of ATM love. They aren't quite as weight efficent as Clan LRMs, or offer as much versatility in warhead payloads as SRMs, but the pure damage potential is outstanding. They sacrifice a little long range punch for better mid-range and some of the best short range firepower in the game. An ATM6 loses nothing and gains everything compared to what it gives up on this design. It's essentially a mini-Rabid Coyote. Love it.

The 5 is little more than a glowing example of how NOT to use Plasma Cannons. With the Night Wolf and the Karhu I've had a lot of fun messing up the heat curve on enemy mech forces, but you can only get a 15 point max outside heat on any one mech IIRC. Do we really need two of these heat beasts? True, they're great against combined arms and having two does allow you to screw up twice as many heat curves. But that's a whole frickin' mech dedicated to heat work. Such a waste.

The 6 is more in line with how this mech should be headed. Finally, some long range support, however mild, for the generic SH IIC lance. I'm a big fan of HAGs. They have great range, no explodey ammo, and only get better the closer in you get. The IIC 6 uses HAGs right. It provides solid firepower at range, and even more solid firepower up close. All for next to no heat and a good spread for crit seeking.

The 7 is.... how do you say.... meh? Decent enough for space battles, but painfully uninspired when ground bound. use it in its niche, nothing else.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #5 on: 28 January 2011, 12:20:19 »
What product is the 8 in?

RS in 3085 Project Phoenix, and mentioned but not named in TRO3085 second paragraph under variants "The second Diamond Shark model ...."

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #6 on: 28 January 2011, 13:08:33 »
Ah, I see it there.  They covered the 5 first and the 6 last, and somehow I missed the 8 in the middle (though I still don't have record sheets, so I could have done little more than mention it in passing).  Looks like another evolution from the prime, with sort of the idea that we should finaly give it some bigger teeth by means of some HMLs.  Seems like it must have an XL, and it might be faster or have IJJs or some such thing.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #7 on: 28 January 2011, 13:11:08 »
The Shadow Hawk IIC holds an odd place in my heart, I consider it rather lacklustre compared to the likes of the Conjurer and Vapor Eagle, and yet I use it frequently because of it's weapons and mobility.

Even a mediocre pilot with a pair of MPLs and a quartet of SSRM2s will give someone something to think about when it jumps in behind their Heavy.

Maybe that's the thing, it's not a stand out fighter, it's something that requires finess and sound tactics.

The variants just seem to be trying to do too much with new toys, but I've seen and used worse.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #8 on: 28 January 2011, 13:23:11 »
The 7 is.... how do you say.... meh? Decent enough for space battles, but painfully uninspired when ground bound. use it in its niche, nothing else.

Against other 'Mechs, you're quite right, and as I noted, there's a handful of places where these things have some real use.  Outside of those situations (general space combat is not one of them by a long shot), I wouldn't use one.

Ah, I see it there.  They covered the 5 first and the 6 last, and somehow I missed the 8 in the middle (though I still don't have record sheets, so I could have done little more than mention it in passing).  Looks like another evolution from the prime, with sort of the idea that we should finaly give it some bigger teeth by means of some HMLs.  Seems like it must have an XL, and it might be faster or have IJJs or some such thing.

You're right on both counts.  It's quite capable and one of those times someone used IJJs right.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #9 on: 28 January 2011, 13:50:16 »
Seems like it must have an XL, and it might be faster or have IJJs or some such thing.

Movement 6/9/9.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #10 on: 28 January 2011, 14:54:02 »
Reading things over, the IIC 6 sounds like the Clans' answer to the PP Shadow Hawk-D with the RAC and arm mounted MLs.

I almost never play Clan, and when I have its been in omnis as the invasion era OpFor, so its kind of an eye-opener to hear about the second line mechs and how they relate to the other Clan units they serve with and the IS mechs they descend from.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #11 on: 28 January 2011, 14:59:35 »
Against other 'Mechs, you're quite right, and as I noted, there's a handful of places where these things have some real use.  Outside of those situations (general space combat is not one of them by a long shot), I wouldn't use one.

Well I don't do much AeroTech or Battlespace combat myself, so I usually stick to atmosphere-free situations when referring to space combat. In large scale true-space combat, mechs really aren't much use at all IIRC. But as marines for asteroid/moon landings they can be quite helpful.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #12 on: 28 January 2011, 17:02:09 »
What I meant by general space combat is anything not in one of those situations.  If you're not dealing with rocks somehow, an ASF can simply keep picking on you from well beyond your range to respond and even if it blunders into your hex, it's at a hefty targeting advantage.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #13 on: 28 January 2011, 17:37:22 »
What I meant by general space combat is anything not in one of those situations.  If you're not dealing with rocks somehow, an ASF can simply keep picking on you from well beyond your range to respond and even if it blunders into your hex, it's at a hefty targeting advantage.

In which case you are 100% right. Simple semantic confusion, is all.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #14 on: 28 January 2011, 17:59:36 »
One of my favourite second lines general purpose and ready to go
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #15 on: 28 January 2011, 18:13:39 »
I don't like it as much as the Griffin-IIC but the SH2C has its place in my forces.

I've never used the PP+ models but the original is a GREAT mech to take against the IS for its cheap BV and the GBears -2 model isn't bad as a Sniper & PBI killer.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #16 on: 28 January 2011, 19:05:27 »
Personally I think the 7 is a fun variant.  Very niche, but fun.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #17 on: 28 January 2011, 20:14:02 »
If you're going to do a SpaceMech, you need one thing above all else: jump jets.  If you have done this correctly, you need to do a second thing: bring more gas.  Once you do that, there is a third thing: Bring a medium or large pulse laser to cut the targeting penalty down and be able to threshold at least some fighters.

The concept has a lot of problems with it, but as an execution of that concept, the Shadow Hawk IIC 7 actually got a lot of things right.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #18 on: 28 January 2011, 20:26:16 »
Good article, and I'm very much in agreement with it. I'm a big fan of the Shadow Hawk IIC, I've used the original model and the 4 a lot. They bring decent weapons, good backstab ability and good durability for a very affordable BV, especially in the campaigns where I've used them where they were often with Clan pilots of Green experience (4/5). They also have a low c-bill cost, another upside for campaign usage. I was able to churn out tw of these for the cost of an XL-engined Omni.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #19 on: 29 January 2011, 05:11:39 »
What I meant by general space combat is anything not in one of those situations.  If you're not dealing with rocks somehow, an ASF can simply keep picking on you from well beyond your range to respond and even if it blunders into your hex, it's at a hefty targeting advantage.

hmmmm ........ I wonder  ??? ........ they couldn't be planning .....   [watch]

you know how The Powers That Be recently gave us rules for fighting inside structures (Castle Brians).

What if, in the not to distance future, those rules were expanded for fighting *inside* large space structures ( space stations^, asteroids, ruins of Gabriel :o etc)

Space variant BattleMechs such as the Shadow Hawk IIC7 would make a bit more sense / be more of use then - in that they'd be able to fly to such a structure on their own, carry enough firepower to make a door and be hard to kill for most forces defending the inside of such a structure. (heck, a disabled Warship could find themselves up against enemy boarding parties supported by Space variant BattleMechs).


heh - of course, the cynic/conspiratorial sides of my brain are saying that TPTB are releasing too many Space variant 'Mechs for them not to be used in some way (and more than the current rules suggest/allow)



^ actually, from memory, isn't there in fluff/history at least one example of BattleMechs being used to capture a space station?

« Last Edit: 29 January 2011, 05:14:30 by Grantwhy »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #20 on: 29 January 2011, 06:23:28 »
To add some comments on the different variants, the 6 is my favorite, but I consider most of the rest decent. 3 and 5 are the only ones I would pass on.


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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #21 on: 29 January 2011, 09:30:16 »
What if, in the not to distance future, those rules were expanded for fighting *inside* large space structures ( space stations^, asteroids, ruins of Gabriel :o etc)

Space variant BattleMechs such as the Shadow Hawk IIC7 would make a bit more sense / be more of use then - in that they'd be able to fly to such a structure on their own, carry enough firepower to make a door and be hard to kill for most forces defending the inside of such a structure. (heck, a disabled Warship could find themselves up against enemy boarding parties supported by Space variant BattleMechs).

Why would they need to?  There are rules for that now by using the Space Drops For Ground Units, Zero-G Combat for Ground Units, and Orbital Obstacles rules out of StratOps, the building rules (including the Castle Brian rules) in several books, and the planetary condition rules in TacOps.  If you need to punch through rock, use the rules for terrain deformation in TacOps.

However, boarding a WarShip or space station is problematic - a 'Mech can't move inward further than the cargo bays in most designs.  You don't design a structure with corridors that size without a reason.  And having 'Mechs literally tear their way through is silly.  You're going to rip the guts out so heavily you might as well be using a NAC for fire support assuming you don't hit structural members a 'Mech simply doesn't have the power to punch through in any useful time frame.  In huge galleries, sure, you can do some crazy stuff... but the rules already cover all of it for the most part.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #22 on: 29 January 2011, 20:56:31 »
Awesome right up Iron Mongoose.

Does anyone know if Fuel Tanks/Liquid Storage are explosive?  Even with CASE protecting it the 'Mech from that nasty event, i don't think it would be pretty if did.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #23 on: 30 January 2011, 02:36:42 »
I can't speak to the rules, but I'd expect its based on what you're storing.  If its flamer fuel or something like that, then yes, but jump jets use other things as fuel.  I seem to remember murcury in the old fluff, which is not explosive, though you wouldn't want to get it on you.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #24 on: 30 January 2011, 10:17:34 »
Depends on the environment.  Hydrogen without oxygen isn't likely to explode.  The contents of the tank are definitely gone, though.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #25 on: 30 January 2011, 12:13:02 »
I'd run it like a fuel hit on an ASF. 10+ it goes boom, iirc.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #26 on: 30 January 2011, 15:53:54 »
i enjoyed reading the analysis here. As the author of the original two variants it's nice to see the discussion about my work on here.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #27 on: 30 January 2011, 17:31:45 »
Great write up Iron Mongoose, i've always found the base model is great for the fledglings first ride.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #28 on: 30 January 2011, 18:01:15 »
I'd run it like a fuel hit on an ASF. 10+ it goes boom, iirc.

Strategic Operations, page 27
Quote
Treat a critical hit against a transport bay slot carrying
fuel as an aerospace fuel critical hit (see p. 240, TW), with
the exception that the unit is not automatically destroyed; if
the controlling player rolls 10 or more, it is treated as an ammunition
explosion, with the damage equal to the amount of
fuel remaining in the slot. Such transport slots can be refueled
using the Fuel Consumption rules (see pp. 34-35).
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Re: Mech of the Week: Shadow Hawk IIC
« Reply #29 on: 30 January 2011, 21:05:48 »
However, boarding a WarShip or space station is problematic - a 'Mech can't move inward further than the cargo bays in most designs.  You don't design a structure with corridors that size without a reason.  And having 'Mechs literally tear their way through is silly.  You're going to rip the guts out so heavily you might as well be using a NAC for fire support assuming you don't hit structural members a 'Mech simply doesn't have the power to punch through in any useful time frame.  In huge galleries, sure, you can do some crazy stuff... but the rules already cover all of it for the most part.
Stomping around on the outside, specifically targeting weapon emplacements and sensor arrays? THAT seems like a great scenario.

 

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