Author Topic: Melee atacks and short range attacks  (Read 4490 times)

Baldur Mekorig

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Melee atacks and short range attacks
« on: 29 July 2017, 21:29:10 »
Normally if you are in base to base contact, you either use your short range or your physical attacks. But in hex maps, were the 1` or 2` diference are both 1 hex, can you attack and then do a physical/meele, or you just still have to choose?
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NeonKnight

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #1 on: 29 July 2017, 21:51:49 »
In base to base contact you may only physical attack the other unit. There is no restriction attacking other units.

In hexes you may either base contact of not.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #2 on: 29 July 2017, 22:45:07 »
In base to base contact you may only physical attack the other unit. There is no restriction attacking other units.

In hexes you may either base contact of not.

 So, in hexes, you can be in adyacent hexes, but not in base contact? Non-meele units must be in base contact for physical attacks, right?
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NeonKnight

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #3 on: 29 July 2017, 22:48:10 »
Don't have books In front of me right now but if I remember correctly with hexes you can declare if you are base to base. But even if you do not declare base to base you are Still physical range.
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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #4 on: 29 July 2017, 23:13:13 »
If playing on hexes, when you move into a hex adjacent to a unit, you declare if you are base to base or not. If you are base to base then melee can happen, but shooting cannot. If you are not base to base, shooting can happen, but melee cannot.

I do not know if MEL units have enough range to melee when not in base to base on hexes.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #5 on: 30 July 2017, 00:16:46 »
Actually, a unit in an adjacent hex can always make a Melee attack.

From the Current ALPHA STRIKE Book (page 110)

Quote
Physical attacks of all types can only be performed between units that are in the same or adjacent hexes.

Base-to-Base Contact: Under hex-based rules, a unit in an adjacent hex qualifies for base-to-base contact.

With the Caveat of the Errata:

Quote
② Converting Movement and Distances (p. 110)
Under “Base-to-Base Contact”, first sentence
Under hex-based rules, a unit in an adjacent hex qualifies for base-to-base contact.
Change to:
Under hex-based rules, a unit in an adjacent hex, and within 1 level of elevation, is in base-to-base contact.
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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #6 on: 30 July 2017, 08:03:29 »
That's going to piss off players in my area, to the point that I'll never hear the end of it. It means that Short Range only really exists at range 2-3, and that a lot of units(mostly non-mech stuff like tanks or infantry lacking AM) can be rendered helpless simply by moving adjacent to them.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #7 on: 30 July 2017, 09:06:04 »
Actually, a unit in an adjacent hex can always make a Melee attack.

From the Current ALPHA STRIKE Book (page 110)

With the Caveat of the Errata:

 So, let me get it right, as i am just starting to use AS: IF i move a mech (lest call it A) to an adyacent hex to Mech B, i can only use physical/meele attacks on Mech B? If it is that way, Weirdo s right and it screws a lot of units.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #8 on: 30 July 2017, 09:40:04 »
That's going to piss off players in my area, to the point that I'll never hear the end of it. It means that Short Range only really exists at range 2-3, and that a lot of units(mostly non-mech stuff like tanks or infantry lacking AM) can be rendered helpless simply by moving adjacent to them.

yes and No.

simply being in adjacent hexes does not mean base-base.

For infantry (for example) they can chose to be in base-base to use their anti mech attack, etc. Or, they could choose to not be.

Same for vehicles (obviously they do not want to be in base-base contact).

They way I work it for my home games, is that only the person who is moving/activating a unit can declare if it is base-base contact, and only if the target has already activated. No different than Charges and DFA's.

Keeps it simple.

That said, it is part (as far as I'm concerned) the tactics of the game. No different than in a regular game of TOTAL WARFARE if you want to shut down a vehicle you simply move into the same hex as the vehicle.
« Last Edit: 30 July 2017, 09:41:41 by NeonKnight »
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NeonKnight

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #9 on: 30 July 2017, 09:44:48 »
So, let me get it right, as i am just starting to use AS: IF i move a mech (lest call it A) to an adyacent hex to Mech B, i can only use physical/meele attacks on Mech B? If it is that way, Weirdo s right and it screws a lot of units.

Again, the rules say qualifies (and I am certain the Errata should keep the qualifies not the hard YUP yer adjacent rules.

See my house ruling above, and how I personally interpret the rule for my games.

Mech A can force Mech B to be in base/base contact only if Mech B acted before Mech A.
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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #10 on: 30 July 2017, 10:25:05 »
Kind of in a love-hate-love relationship with hex based rules.

Best example we had of this was in a game where we had a 'Mech surrounded by vehicles.  Under the old rules, all of the vehicles would be in "base to base" and they actually could not make an attack.  The 'Mech could only perform a physical on one of them.  Then it was changed, and in this situation, ALL of the vehicles could surround the 'Mech and shoot and the 'Mech could only nail one of them with "base to base."

Does this rule keep flip-flopping or am I missing something here?  Seems hex based play is all jacked up because it wants to be at a certain scale and it doesn't.  Seems inconsistent.
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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #11 on: 30 July 2017, 15:48:28 »
yes and No.

simply being in adjacent hexes does not mean base-base.

Quote
② Converting Movement and Distances (p. 110)
Under “Base-to-Base Contact”, first sentence
Under hex-based rules, a unit in an adjacent hex qualifies for base-to-base contact.
Change to:
Under hex-based rules, a unit in an adjacent hex, and within 1 level of elevation, is in base-to-base contact.

I'm trying to reconcile these two, and it's making my head hurt. What is the final word on base-to-base being automatic vs declared, using the most up to date rules and errata? Actual rules, not house rules.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #12 on: 30 July 2017, 16:03:27 »
I'm trying to reconcile these two, and it's making my head hurt. What is the final word on base-to-base being automatic vs declared, using the most up to date rules and errata? Actual rules, not house rules.

I've put an Errata on the Errata Link page, because Hex based rules is supposed to either adjacent hexes are or are not base to base (i.e. it is declared)

Page 110 of the second printing lists the rule as follows:

Quote
Base-to-Base Contact: Under hex-based rules, a unit in an adjacent hex qualifies for base-to-base contact.

Here is a thread where NCKestrel stated the 1 level elevation thing to allow units in adjacent hexes to qualify for Base-Base.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47845.msg1106407#msg1106407

However, further digging found this post, which is supposed to be official but is currently lacking from the errata  :-\

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=31693.msg1106403#msg1106403

p110, Base-to-Base Contact:
"Base-to-Base Contact: Under hex-based rules, a unit in an adjacent hex qualifies for base-to-base contact."
change to
"Base-to-Base Contact: Under hex-based rules, a unit in an adjacent hex, and within 1 level of elevation, is in base-to-base contact. In hex map play, units may make weapon or physical attacks against targets in base-to-base contact."
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Xotl

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #13 on: 30 July 2017, 17:38:14 »
The post was edited three weeks later.  I imagine I took it down when it originally appeared and missed the future edit.

Looking at another post that was edited later, there's also these:

p33, Mechanized Battle Armor
"requiring any mounting to occur at the start of the transporting Omni’s Movement Phase, at a cost of 2 inches of Move to the Omni, and requiring any dismounting to occur at the end of the Omni’s Movement Phase."
change to
"requiring any mounting to occur during the transported Battle Armor's Movement Phase, at a cost of 2 inches of Move to the Battle Armor, and requiring any dismounting to occur at the end of the Omni's Movement Phase."

p33, Extended Mechanized Special Ability
"However, the transport mounted by these units will not only have to spend 2 inches of Move to pick up such units, it will lose 2 inches of Move per turn as long as the XMEC unit remains on board."
change to
"However, the transport will lose 2 inches of Move per turn as long as the XMEC unit remains on board."


I'll double check to make sure this is all still intended and, if so, add it to the errata.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #14 on: 30 July 2017, 17:48:45 »
The post was edited three weeks later.  I imagine I took it down when it originally appeared and missed the future edit.

Looking at another post that was edited later, there's also these:

p33, Mechanized Battle Armor
"requiring any mounting to occur at the start of the transporting Omni’s Movement Phase, at a cost of 2 inches of Move to the Omni, and requiring any dismounting to occur at the end of the Omni’s Movement Phase."
change to
"requiring any mounting to occur during the transported Battle Armor's Movement Phase, at a cost of 2 inches of Move to the Battle Armor, and requiring any dismounting to occur at the end of the Omni's Movement Phase."

p33, Extended Mechanized Special Ability
"However, the transport mounted by these units will not only have to spend 2 inches of Move to pick up such units, it will lose 2 inches of Move per turn as long as the XMEC unit remains on board."
change to
"However, the transport will lose 2 inches of Move per turn as long as the XMEC unit remains on board."


I'll double check to make sure this is all still intended and, if so, add it to the errata.

Sorry...Huh?  ???

That doesn't pertain to Base-Base & Melee attacks... ;)
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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #15 on: 30 July 2017, 18:27:25 »
I'm saying that I saw the post you just linked to of nckestrel's, and theorized that I missed it because it was edited later (presumably adding more detail).

Similarly, the other posts I added are not in the errata, date from around the same period, and were likely edited in later.  I'm just putting it all together.
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nckestrel

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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #16 on: 30 July 2017, 18:42:47 »
The change for hex based was that base to base contact no longer restricts attacks.  You're still in base to base, but in hex play that no longer means you can't make weapon attacks.
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Re: Melee atacks and short range attacks
« Reply #17 on: 31 July 2017, 08:49:02 »
I'm saying that I saw the post you just linked to of nckestrel's, and theorized that I missed it because it was edited later (presumably adding more detail).

Similarly, the other posts I added are not in the errata, date from around the same period, and were likely edited in later.  I'm just putting it all together.

Ah. Thought maybe you had posted to wrong thread or posted wrong info.
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