Author Topic: Idiosyncratic quibbling  (Read 9910 times)

Hominid Mk II

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Idiosyncratic quibbling
« on: 07 September 2017, 12:07:11 »
What is your favorite gripe that amounts to nothing but pure pedantry and nit-picking on your part, rather than being about anything of any real importance?

I'll start the ball rolling. I don't like the name of the Axumite Providence, even though I do think they're interesting as a basic concept for a minor faction. The Axumite Dynasty of medieval Ethiopia were Coptic Christians, as were a majority of their subjects, and were based in East Africa. IMHO, a better idea for a name for a society of Muslims of West and North African descent would have been to recycle the name of the Songhay Empire. (Look them up at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhai_Empire if you're interested.)  I'm sure people with a more detailed knowledge of history can make better suggestions still, but I seriously doubt anybody would suggest calling them the Axumite Providence if we weren't already stuck with the name.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #1 on: 07 September 2017, 16:03:16 »
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #2 on: 07 September 2017, 17:55:05 »
Oh great, you broke Adrian! ;D

I think my personal favorite is how dropship fusion engines have efficiency measured in triple digit percent, when the math happens.  Cray could probably explain more.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #3 on: 07 September 2017, 18:52:30 »
Sad, but true enough.  Not even pure matter/anti-matter annihilation can get there.

Unfortunately, my favorite gripe (the current vertical landing rules for aerodyne small craft) has real impact (I want my Mark VII back without having to resort to house rules or a non-canon design).

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #4 on: 07 September 2017, 19:25:57 »
WarShip mylar armour. Seriously.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #5 on: 07 September 2017, 19:53:19 »
Vertical space has no effect on range. On the bright side I don't have to have a hypotenuse chart to calculate if I can shoot that yellow jacket...

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HABeas2

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #6 on: 07 September 2017, 20:46:30 »
The very existence of the Unseen.

The way effective ranges for weapons drastically change when you mount the same gun on a Mech vs a fighter.

The notion of technological decline across thousands of worlds over several centuries.

WarShips.

ComStar.

How in hell did BattleMechs even BECOME the most powerful weapon system, given their obvious strategic disadvantages (piss-poor targeting/range effectiveness; incredibly large tactical silhouettes)?

Why the game system still insists on running with 1980s rules aesthetics as its core when faster play mechanics have been developed and actually draw more attention from younger players.

The notion that the universe had one of its most explosive expansion periods during the pre-Age of War period, when people from bankrupted nations somehow managed to contract enough shipping to settle worlds dozens of even hundreds of LY from Earth.

The two-dimensional space map.

House Davion.

Humanity.

Wait. That last one is my real-life quibble. Never mind!

 O0

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #7 on: 07 September 2017, 21:34:01 »
What Herb said.

I don't want to talk about xenobiology in BT. This relates specifically to how BT is really based on 1970s pop-fantasy sci-fi yet gets wrapped up in anachronistic hard sci-fi elements. Just pick one, dammit.

And let's not talk about phantom mech syndrome.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #8 on: 07 September 2017, 21:42:29 »
Aerospace Fighters.  2 free MP and no structural mass make them broken, in my opinion.  Especially against other Aero units like Small Craft.

That despite the ravages of the Succession Wars, the Successor States really only traded border worlds back and forth.  Some balkanization following the fall of the Star League would have been interesting.

Or: Inner Sphere is too big.  An earth-type world is large, a solar system is huge.  Lots of places to play within a smaller number of star systems.

:snip:
+1 on most of that.
« Last Edit: 07 September 2017, 21:44:04 by Siden Pryde »

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #9 on: 07 September 2017, 22:03:01 »
Or: Inner Sphere is too big.  An earth-type world is large, a solar system is huge.  Lots of places to play within a smaller number of star systems.
TRAPPIST-1 boasts seven earth-sized worlds in its biozone.  You could run the Inner Sphere in miniature there.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #10 on: 07 September 2017, 22:31:13 »
I think my personal favorite is how dropship fusion engines have efficiency measured in triple digit percent, when the math happens.  Cray could probably explain more.
Sad, but true enough.  Not even pure matter/anti-matter annihilation can get there.
well, IIRC the inventors of the KF drive started work on hyperspace stuff based on observations of oddities in Fusion engine cores.. there might be some scifi weirdness going on in there making the output way better than it ought to be.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #11 on: 07 September 2017, 22:31:51 »
The Inner Sphere is, supposedly, 'militarized'.

But when you look at the actual numbers compared to current day Earth, the factional armed forces are very thin. The caveat is, of course, that we mostly talk about the famous and the infamous.

The U.S. Army has approximately 12 Divisions. 12 Divisions is roughly 36 Brigades, or maybe call it 50-75 odd regimental size units, if we suss it out by the standard 1 to 3-5 ratios. Granted, it's Earth's most expensive force, counting in the other branches, of course, but the whole U.S armed forces is not the largest by manpower. China has 2+ million under arms, now add in India at least a million, Russia, North Korea, Pakistan, South Korea, Turkey, etc.

It really starts to add up.

But then we go to the BTU. Granted, the populations of most worlds are much smaller, but there are factions with a number of planets that can reach upward of 100 worlds to counter smaller populations. I'm not doing hard calculus here.

A major capital world or important strategic place would probably be considered well-defended if it could boast what? Lumping BattleMechs, armor and infantry together we typically count 5 to 8 regiments plus maybe 3 regiments of militia for a grand total of 10 to 12. So, if I'm invading New Avalon, and the Davions are ready, and I'm looking at 10-12 regiments of defenders, we're talking a major event in the timeline. Most of the time, it's maybe half those numbers for a notable battle and the very rare Tukkyidd event where it's a massive pile-on of everything a faction's got.

So, my point is, when we talk about the BTU, I think we're talking about an OPTIMISTIC universe where the population to military ratio is generally much, much lower than it is on Earth at the current time. Yet we tend to talk and write about it as if it were heavily militarized. What it does have is eras with the heavy use of weapons of mass destruction, which on Earth would be a game-ender, since it's only one planet.
« Last Edit: 07 September 2017, 22:52:20 by Easy »

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #12 on: 07 September 2017, 22:43:50 »
Regular old single strength heat sinks.  Big part of the game, but give me double freezers all day long.  But what's a guy gonna do... :P
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #13 on: 08 September 2017, 00:01:16 »
Vertical space has no effect on range. On the bright side I don't have to have a hypotenuse chart to calculate if I can shoot that yellow jacket...

One could simply rule that every elevation up/down reduces range by 1 (because I don;t want to start accounting for Gravity drop for Ballistics :P)

But as an add on, the max elevation is 500 or 3 Kilometers, but if it is one Hex away, the range 1.

Further, no matter what, Aerospace operate on Altitudes, and VTOLs operate on Elevations and never the twain shall meet.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #14 on: 08 September 2017, 01:26:57 »
LAMs. You didn't need to use all the art you got, early Fasa!
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #15 on: 08 September 2017, 05:33:01 »
Lack of consistency with Clan names.  Mongoose, Widowmaker, Wolf, and Wolverine.  Why don't they get a prefix?  Was there a reason?  Is it because they all start with the letter 'W' (or an upside down 'W' in the case of the Mongoose)?

Also Burrock. 

Which still fits if you think of a 'B' as a sort of sideways, cursive 'W' with some extra lines.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #16 on: 08 September 2017, 07:37:36 »
The Clans, period!

No aliens but there are plenty of aliens, just look at the freakin books people!

Fasanomics!!

Canon beating Cannons.

What the hell is Focht going on about Earth not being important!!!

Despite lifespans increasing dramatically rulers of nations with hundreds of planets can't make it out of their 50s!!!!

Why haven't they invented Triple Heat Sinks yet? Quadruple Heat Sinks better show up by 3250!

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #17 on: 08 September 2017, 07:48:26 »
Despite lifespans increasing dramatically rulers of nations with hundreds of planets can't make it out of their 50s!!!!

This is less an issue with life-span or medicine and more a matter of stress most likely. If you look at leaders today, they age rather dramatically while in office, much more then their age should indicate.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #18 on: 08 September 2017, 10:19:37 »
I think my quibble is over the idea that we can't have crit tables for other units.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #19 on: 08 September 2017, 13:13:04 »
I think we lost sight of what a quibble is

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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #20 on: 08 September 2017, 13:25:21 »
Why bother having IS made Heat sinks, Endo-Steel, Ferro Fiberous Armor, and some weapons while clan Tech is clearly superior in 3150.
« Last Edit: 08 September 2017, 15:50:10 by Tyler Jorgensson »

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #21 on: 08 September 2017, 14:26:02 »
Yeah, some of this stuff I would certainly call more than just a quibble. Here are a couple of mine, and let me preface them by saying that most of them exist because this is just a game and it needs to have some silly abstractions for game reasons:

  • It's been how many years now and we can't put double heat sinks on a tank? I mean, XXL Engines are fine, but no freezers?
  • Why don't missiles and AC's generate heat when they are on a vehicle?
  • IS Medium lasers became common in 2310...how in the world are the still relevant in 3150? It's like someone pulled a sword from the battle of Hastings out of a museum so they could stop the tanks rolling down the street!
  • So, if two mechs try to enter a 30m-wide, depth 2 hole in the terrain, one must randomly cease to exist?

Honestly, this stuff doesn't bother me that much. I'm willing to allow a whole lot if it makes for a fun game and a fun setting. It makes me laugh more than anything.
« Last Edit: 08 September 2017, 14:27:35 by sadlerbw »

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #22 on: 08 September 2017, 15:59:00 »
Omnis only being used with fixed configs, instead of total customization due to mission profile.
Tech creep
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The sheer number of Mechs, impossible to know your enemy anymore without 756234 different TROs
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #23 on: 08 September 2017, 16:10:53 »
The extra e in Cecerops.

I never got published on BattleCorps.

That more main characters aren't ambidextrous.

The disturbing lack of information on the favorite food of each national leader.

I never submitted anything to BattleCorps.

Herb wouldn't let me nuke the Hesperus factories in ER3145.

Two sourcebooks were printed with the same stock number. I don't actually remember which ones they were but ****** it really chaps my hide!

Look, I always meant to submit something to BattleCorps, I just never actually got around to it. Get off my back, man!

Nobody thinks I'm funny. Oh wait, that's a quibble with life, not BattleTech.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #24 on: 08 September 2017, 16:16:43 »
I never got published on BattleCorps.

I never submitted anything to BattleCorps.

Look, I always meant to submit something to BattleCorps, I just never actually got around to it. Get off my back, man!

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #25 on: 08 September 2017, 16:46:31 »
Hey now, don't forget your Inkspot Irregulars Unit Digest.

And, once again, reality ruins my fun.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #26 on: 08 September 2017, 17:10:07 »
Oh yeah, basically every word that comes out of Fotch's mouth.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #27 on: 08 September 2017, 17:36:54 »
This is less an issue with life-span or medicine and more a matter of stress most likely. If you look at leaders today, they age rather dramatically while in office, much more then their age should indicate.

BT rulers have to contend with a hostile work environment of the worst sort.

As Theodore Kuritas internal monologue in "Black Dragon" put it: "Few rulers in the Inner Sphere died in their beds. And even those that did, usually didn´t do it on their own volition."
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #28 on: 08 September 2017, 21:15:04 »
Energy weapons - the most high tech weapons in the game - are cheap.

Autocannons - basically 1000 year old technology - are expensive.

 ???
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #29 on: 08 September 2017, 22:11:24 »
Energy weapons - the most high tech weapons in the game - are cheap.

Autocannons - basically 1000 year old technology - are expensive.

 ???

how huge of a change (in terms of C-Bill cost) would it be if Lasers were priced to be higher than various model AC's?

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #30 on: 08 September 2017, 22:50:31 »
how huge of a change (in terms of C-Bill cost) would it be if Lasers were priced to be higher than various model AC's?
I usually double the C-Bill cost of energy weapons (except vehicle flamers).  Have gone as high as 5x when playing around with specs and numbers.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #31 on: 09 September 2017, 00:28:41 »
Found a couple while cleaning out my BattleTech folder this week.

It's weird that the period from 3050 to 3081 hasn't (to my knowledge) been recognized as the Fifth Succession War, in line with how the first three Succession Wars are defined. The famous "Year of Peace" from the end of 3050 to the end of 3051, the year (if you ignore the Capellans) after Task Force Serpent returns in early 3061, and the half year between the FCCW and Jihad are more akin to the lull in the middle of the Fourth Succession War than to the larger gaps between Succession Wars.

I view the BattleDroids continuity as the result of Kerensky choosing to stay in the Inner Sphere, and I'm baffled that anyone thinks the Hegemony could attract and sustain enough of the SLDF to survive.

It bugs me when newer TROs give the average "notable warrior" more space than the average overview, that "capabilities" seems to be shrinking into irrelevance, how battle stories get shoehorned into the "warrior" entries instead of the deployment history, and in general that the mix of content no longer fits the traditional sectioning. It's fine that the mix of content has changed, just, maybe ditch the old headers and get new ones that organize the content more aesthetically.

Players using the phrase "Alpha Strike" for firing all of a unit's weapons in a single turn is useful and fun and fine, but I'm always disappointed to see characters or in-universe documents use it the same way. Pulling every trigger simultaneously isn't a good idea (see: Scarabus arm assembly, Vlad's first(?) Trial against Phelan), and there's nothing remarkable about staggering your fire over five, ten, fifteen or any other arbitrary number of seconds; that all goes double if the interval of fire has no bearing on anything else in the story. In the old card game (and I believe in real life), the term "Alpha Strike" involves running your ammo bins dry; I don't remember what commands you could give your AI lancemates in the MechWarrior videogames, but it wouldn't surprise me if it worked the same way there too.

I am to this day confused at how the "scale" chart in the back of TR:3039 got greenlighted.

Also, tangential to this topic but in the same general vein, it bothers me when confusion or disagreement about the semantics involved in a discussion get confused for the discussion itself. Years back, that eventually happened enough times, and I was still invested enough, that I started a whole other thread for the most frequently disruptive terms.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #32 on: 09 September 2017, 03:07:01 »
"lets make Sun-tzu Laio the First Lord of the Inner Sphere, i'm sure nothing bad will happen..."

thats got to be up there with

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #33 on: 09 September 2017, 04:14:06 »
The extra e in Cecerops.

I never got published on BattleCorps.

That more main characters aren't ambidextrous.

The disturbing lack of information on the favorite food of each national leader.

I never submitted anything to BattleCorps.

Herb wouldn't let me nuke the Hesperus factories in ER3145.

Two sourcebooks were printed with the same stock number. I don't actually remember which ones they were but ****** it really chaps my hide!

Look, I always meant to submit something to BattleCorps, I just never actually got around to it. Get off my back, man!

Nobody thinks I'm funny. Oh wait, that's a quibble with life, not BattleTech.

Now those are some quibbles
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #34 on: 09 September 2017, 07:28:16 »
I love the BTU, then I start reading the post on this forum and start hating it.... WHY DO I KEEP COMING BACK!?

(I think I need help) :crazy2:
It's called masochism.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #35 on: 09 September 2017, 07:29:26 »
TRAPPIST-1 boasts seven earth-sized worlds in its biozone.  You could run the Inner Sphere in miniature there.
That's were Whedon put his Firefly universe.  ;D
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #36 on: 09 September 2017, 08:03:49 »
That despite being based off aquatic mining suits, elementals die if exposed to lvl1 water...you don't know rage untill youv swarmed someone only to watch them jump in a puddle.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #37 on: 09 September 2017, 09:01:39 »
I never got published on BattleCorps.

I never submitted anything to BattleCorps.

Look, I always meant to submit something to BattleCorps, I just never actually got around to it. Get off my back, man!

I did submit ... and got two accepted ... right before they ceased publication. Literally the month before.  [blank] Exorcist head spin there.

Other quibbles:
- The "Dune with Giant Robots" or "King Arthur in Space" elements clash pretty heavily with the "Tom Clancy in Space" elements

- Science fiction armies with lasers, tanks, air support and artillery facing off against each other like Greek phalanxes

- Galactic rulers leading their armies into battle like they're Joan of Arc

- This one Rifleman in this one game that took like five AC/20 hits and didn't go down
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #38 on: 09 September 2017, 12:30:23 »
A couple more:

The placement of the laser on the Wasp LAM (mk II?)

That there's this hidden aesthetic that must be adhered to which seems to go a little far.

The notion that catgirls are somehow endangered and need protection.

The notion that Mechs are the only real driving force behind the game.

Game design choices made based on that last one.



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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #39 on: 09 September 2017, 19:24:23 »
The inexplicable change in Clan 'mech aesthetics after the original 16. There are some real ******* turkeys in the next few TROs after 3050.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #40 on: 09 September 2017, 22:49:52 »
The inexplicable change in Clan 'mech aesthetics after the original 16. There are some real ******* turkeys in the next few TROs after 3050.

 So ugly its beautiful. The mechs only look bad because they stand next beautiful battle armor.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #41 on: 10 September 2017, 09:30:29 »
  • It's been how many years now and we can't put double heat sinks on a tank? I mean, XXL Engines are fine, but no freezers?

Agree totally. The game is already way too rigged in favor of 'Mechs as it is. This is blatantly unfair to tankers. And I don't ever remember seeing any in-universe technobabble explanation for why it should be the case, either. (Has anybody else, for that matter?)

  • IS Medium lasers became common in 2310...how in the world are the still relevant in 3150? It's like someone pulled a sword from the battle of Hastings out of a museum so they could stop the tanks rolling down the street!
You've obviously never seen the 137-A Omega from BattleTechnology Magazine in the 1980s. Or the BLR-2G Warlord.[/list]
« Last Edit: 23 September 2017, 08:54:33 by Hominid Mk II »
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #42 on: 10 September 2017, 09:34:19 »
The inexplicable change in Clan 'mech aesthetics after the original 16. There are some real ******* turkeys in the next few TROs after 3050.

I'd say thats more an issue with the artists and changing them. Loose's style for TRO-3058 does not really match the ones we saw in TRO 3050. 
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #43 on: 10 September 2017, 10:14:53 »
I'd say thats more an issue with the artists and changing them. Loose's style for TRO-3058 does not really match the ones we saw in TRO 3050.

Quote from: TRO 3060, probably
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #44 on: 10 September 2017, 10:45:56 »
Thought of another: the name Erinyes is a plural. In the singular it should be Erinys.
« Last Edit: 23 September 2017, 08:55:30 by Hominid Mk II »
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #45 on: 10 September 2017, 13:27:34 »
  • IS Medium lasers became common in 2310...how in the world are the still relevant in 3150? It's like someone pulled a sword from the battle of Hastings out of a museum so they could stop the tanks rolling down the street!

A sword will still kill a man...it may not do much against a tank (unless you use it to cut fuel lines, or aim through viewports to kill crew), but it will still kill an infantryman...heck, a rock or a club made from a femur bone can still kill a person (even an armored one)...and those have been used as weapons for how many thousands of years now?

Ruger
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #46 on: 10 September 2017, 15:54:39 »
And pound for pound, the old school medium laser is still the most efficient weapon in the game.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #47 on: 10 September 2017, 20:59:37 »
And pound for pound, the old school medium laser is still the most efficient weapon in the game.

Uh... I'll put it to the Clan ER Medium Laser. That makes the IS Large Laser very much obsolete.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #48 on: 11 September 2017, 09:25:13 »
A sword will still kill a man...it may not do much against a tank (unless you use it to cut fuel lines, or aim through viewports to kill crew), but it will still kill an infantryman...heck, a rock or a club made from a femur bone can still kill a person (even an armored one)...and those have been used as weapons for how many thousands of years now?

Ruger

Yeah, but if you wanted to stop a tank, would you go out of your way to find a sword to do it? Would that be your very first choice because the pinnacle of modern military technology was STILL most efficiently destroyed by it? I'm not talking about killing the guys inside, but if you wanted to destroy the machine its self, would you go looking for a sword?

Anyway, I thought of a couple more: Why is kicking easier than punching? Shouldn't punching be easier since you don't have to balance on one leg? From watching my kids in their martial arts classes, it certainly seems like THEY are inherently better at placing a punch where they want it than a kick! Also, I've never seen them fall over trying to throw a punch, but a kick? Yeah that fall roll for missed kicks is REAL! In fact, it should probably apply to kicks that connect as well, if my kids are anything to go by!

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #49 on: 11 September 2017, 10:32:51 »
How could I have forgotten the SRM4 placement on the ON1-K. It's my longest standing semi-childish overreaction to art vs record sheet

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #50 on: 11 September 2017, 10:43:43 »
Energy weapons - the most high tech weapons in the game - are cheap.

Autocannons - basically 1000 year old technology - are expensive.

 ???

The carbon off-set taxes are included in the price.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #51 on: 11 September 2017, 11:45:54 »
That the "most iconic" Timber Wolf configuration (LRM-15s in the shoulders, what appears to be PPCs over medium lasers in the arms, quad small lasers, machine gun) isn't an official configuration in any way.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #52 on: 11 September 2017, 14:21:14 »
How could I have forgotten the SRM4 placement on the ON1-K. It's my longest standing semi-childish overreaction to art vs record sheet

OOoooo! I forgot about art that doesn't match the specs! I like the Kuma from TRO:3085, but in the picture it has trio of missiles on the right arm/shoulder. The only variant with missiles is the Kuma 2 that has an ATM9 in the left torso. Also, the main gun is on the wrong arm, and the backup ER Mediums don't show up on either arm.

At least the TRO text for the Firefly (at least in 3050 upgrade and later) TRIES to explain away the extra gun sticking out of the arm.

Oh! And what about Aerodyne dropships? Which way is up! Do they all have an extra set of drives on their bellies that we can't see? Does everyone just walk on the walls while they are transiting through space?

I was going to complain about gun barrels big enough to fire 55 gal. drums...but I actually kinda like them  ;D

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #53 on: 11 September 2017, 14:56:28 »
That the "most iconic" Timber Wolf configuration (LRM-15s in the shoulders, what appears to be PPCs over medium lasers in the arms, quad small lasers, machine gun) isn't an official configuration in any way.

even though it appears to be the version Vlad (Ward) piloted when he took down Phelan. so really, they could shoehorn it in as the Timber Wolf - Vlad, or something.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #54 on: 11 September 2017, 16:43:56 »
OOoooo! I forgot about art that doesn't match the specs!
Even this year's redesigned Thunderbolt has the missiles on the "wrong" shoulder...
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #55 on: 11 September 2017, 18:57:28 »
Oh! And what about Aerodyne dropships? Which way is up! Do they all have an extra set of drives on their bellies that we can't see? Does everyone just walk on the walls while they are transiting through space?

The fluff actually says yes, for most of them.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #56 on: 20 September 2017, 14:28:10 »
The thing that's bothered me from day one is I don't see how it is possible to fit all of that missile launcher ammo inside a mech!  ???  I mean is there really space for 480 LRMs in side that Archer?

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #57 on: 20 September 2017, 15:15:33 »
Well, y'see, you take the J-27 Ammunition Carrier miniature,



 and put it side by side with the Archer, and....



...then you become a true-believer in Hammerspace.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #58 on: 20 September 2017, 15:31:35 »
Is that the Spinal Tap model, with LRMs that go to 11?
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #59 on: 20 September 2017, 17:34:19 »
It's like the unseen Behemoth / Stone Rhino. Four tubes fire two missiles, obviously   [blank]
« Last Edit: 20 September 2017, 21:57:13 by Sartris »

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #60 on: 20 September 2017, 18:36:49 »
The recon moving the rediscovered Star League technology from the 3049/3051 to the 3030/3040’s.

Kai, Victor, Justin Alard, Fotch and Theodore have no idea how a mech can shoot form so far, run so cool, and mount so much armor to... FF, ES and DSHS have been in product for decades...

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #61 on: 20 September 2017, 22:02:01 »
The Fotch/Theodore Kuirta part is especially funny because under Operation Rosebud and the MUL, Comstar gave the DC a significant enough number of standard tech designs to show up on the DCMS availability list starting in the mid 3030s 


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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #62 on: 20 September 2017, 23:36:41 »
The recon moving the rediscovered Star League technology from the 3049/3051 to the 3030/3040’s.

Kai, Victor, Justin Alard, Fotch and Theodore have no idea how a mech can shoot form so far, run so cool, and mount so much armor to... FF, ES and DSHS have been in product for decades...

You do know that they were surprised by the capabilities of clan technology, right? Even with star league tech, the capabilities of the clan war machines was beyond them. You couldn't make an inner sphere mech do what a clan mech could even with the latest inner sphere technology.

(whether or not it was much of a retcon in the first place is another matter)
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #63 on: 21 September 2017, 11:52:05 »
I always figured the huge missile bubbles we see on older Mechs were simply part of the launcher and acted as shielding for the true rocket, which is only the size of a 2- or 3- liter bottle.



You'd be surprised how much space you can cram those into. And, it would explain why ammo explosions are so devastating.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #64 on: 21 September 2017, 11:57:17 »
Man, how many Mentos would a Longbow need per round?
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #65 on: 21 September 2017, 12:10:34 »
Man, how many Mentos would a Longbow need per round?

Probably a whole package per missile, complete with dissolving coating to be activated just at launch. 
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #66 on: 21 September 2017, 12:31:23 »
The thing that's bothered me from day one is I don't see how it is possible to fit all of that missile launcher ammo inside a mech!  ???  I mean is there really space for 480 LRMs in side that Archer?
Clearly, the missiles are inflatable, and need to be deflated in order to fit inside the 'Mech.  That's why it takes 15 minutes to load, rather than having the pre-configured and filled rack slide right into the place of the empty one.  The firing rate is largely dependent on the output of the compressor system to re-inflate them for launch.  The Archer miniature shown above obviously has room for "inflatable spares", in case of punctures.

My own quibble has to do with infantry weapons.  Most infantry platoons are fluffed as carrying several LAWs, for added firepower against armored targets.  The (old MechWarrior RPG) rules for damage against those armored targets, however, gives them the same ability to damage armor as the standard rifles.  Clearly, carrying a one-shot LAW weighing several kilograms is a better idea than carrying another much lighter ammo clip with 10-30 shots of the same effectiveness.
« Last Edit: 21 September 2017, 14:05:01 by Kovax »

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #67 on: 21 September 2017, 16:22:46 »
i have seen at least one fanfic where they had the 'volleys' in BT be sub-munitions.. the launcher fires a single large missile, which then splits into sub-missiles partway to the target.

sorta like


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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #68 on: 21 September 2017, 21:29:45 »
You do know that they were surprised by the capabilities of clan technology, right? Even with star league tech, the capabilities of the clan war machines was beyond them. You couldn't make an inner sphere mech do what a clan mech could even with the latest inner sphere technology.

(whether or not it was much of a retcon in the first place is another matter)

Clan FF is not that different the IS FF
Clan endo is not different then then IS endo.
Clan DSHS are not different then IS DSHS.


Clan Gauss and ERPPC and LRM have the same range as IS versions.

If you know about star league tech because you have been deploying it slowly over the past 15 years you won’t be jaw dropping surprised when an incrementally better version shows up.


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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #69 on: 21 September 2017, 23:40:42 »
Clan FF is not that different the IS FF
Clan endo is not different then then IS endo.
Clan DSHS are not different then IS DSHS.


Clan Gauss and ERPPC and LRM have the same range as IS versions.

If you know about star league tech because you have been deploying it slowly over the past 15 years you won’t be jaw dropping surprised when an incrementally better version shows up.

Why not? Inner Sphere technology doesn't advance that fast.

Also, individually, they aren't that different, but together in a package the results are staggering. We need only look at the inner sphere's attempt to do the same with less (such as the rakshasa), to see that.

One could also look into the master unit list to figure out which of these advanced units the inner sphere had been "getting used to" and then find out that production quality advanced technology doesn't actually start getting into the hands of pilots until the mid to late 3040s, with the most advanced versions appearing within a couple years of the invasion. Most of the classic clan era upgrades still don't enter service until after the clan invasion is already under way. Heck, a healthy number of the designs that pop up in TRO 3050 actually date from 3051.  :P
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #70 on: 22 September 2017, 03:15:44 »
And the point about clan LRMs isn't that the ammunition performance is any different, it's that there are twice as many as there "should" be on any given design.  That factor does deserve "jaw dropping" in my mind.  And a clan ER PPC is capable of removing the head of a 'mech, no critical roll required.  The closest the IS ever got to that on their own was the Blazer Cannon, which never made it into full production.  I'll certainly concede the point on Gauss Rifles, though.  That difference was truly only incremental.

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #71 on: 25 September 2017, 07:59:15 »
That none of the Merkava tanks have integrated infantry compartments.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #72 on: 25 September 2017, 12:02:24 »
That none of the Merkava tanks have integrated infantry compartments.

That's nothing compared to unwisely making a tank and then naming it after some wise men.
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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #73 on: 25 September 2017, 21:51:46 »
How could I have forgotten the SRM4 placement on the ON1-K. It's my longest standing semi-childish overreaction to art vs record sheet

Art and TRO description.  In the original 3025 TRO it even states that its SRM 4 surrounding the ML and bottom 2 holes are for coolant hookups.

Charlie 6

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #74 on: 28 September 2017, 20:50:04 »
Mechanized and Motorized Infantry:  description, stats, capabilities, basic concept.  Just use Foot Infantry or Battle Armor.
Artillery being forced to fire by weapon vice unit because parallel lines, opposite interior angles, and voice communications is beyond 30th Century mathematics.
The inability of factions to have different tactical organizations.
The RCT and LCT.
The SLDF Division is actually a corps because the difference between regiments and brigades is a nuanced matter of organization vice scale.

That said, I still come to this website nearly every day because this game has been a part of my life since the summer of 1985 or so.


Phobos101

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #75 on: 29 September 2017, 18:36:44 »
Mechanized and Motorized Infantry:  description, stats, capabilities, basic concept.  Just use Foot Infantry or Battle Armor.
Artillery being forced to fire by weapon vice unit because parallel lines, opposite interior angles, and voice communications is beyond 30th Century mathematics.
The inability of factions to have different tactical organizations.
The RCT and LCT.
The SLDF Division is actually a corps because the difference between regiments and brigades is a nuanced matter of organization vice scale.

That said, I still come to this website nearly every day because this game has been a part of my life since the summer of 1985 or so.

I certainly agree on Mechanised and motorised. When I first saw the words I was thinking along the lines of my Flames of War Panzergrenadiers in half tracks, but then I read on and promptly decided to pretend they didn't exist.

The beauty of having so much in the universe is you can easily cut and paste the bits that don't suit your taste [protomechs]. I know I do it a lot [MWDA], and it saves me a whole heap of grief [LAMs].

NeonKnight

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #76 on: 29 September 2017, 19:43:12 »
My major quibble.....No matter how big the building...it all neatly collapses into a +0 level pile of rubble.

Level 1 Tent - Destroyed into a level 0 pile of rubble.

level 30 Hardened Starport Tower - Destroyed into a level 0 pile of rubble.
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

idea weenie

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #77 on: 30 September 2017, 11:18:17 »
Why don't SRM & LRM all have 120 missiles per ton? This way you can easily have all your SRMs feeding from the same ton of ammo, each just grabbing 2 at a time until they are full.  LRMs would grab in groups of 5.

Why can't missile upgrades from LRMs be mounted on Thunderbolt missiles with no warhead size penalty? (if the guidance system can fit on a 1 pt LRM with no penalty, it shouldn't need a penalty to fit on a Thunderbolt missile)

Why don't Gauss weapons produce more heat? (Ballistics can to use the casing to dump heat, Gauss don't get that benefit)

Infantry should only get a limited number of anti-Mech shots per game (but if they are in the same hex as an ammo dump, they first take away shots from the ammo dump).  Similar to Elementals only getting 2 SRM salvos per game.

LRM launchers in pictures are oversized for their ammo.  With 120 LRMs per ton of ammo, that makes them 8.33 kg in mass (not counting ammo transfer).  The closest we have is the FFAR, a rocket 8.4 kg in mass and 70mm in width (2.75 inches).



For integrating height into horizontal range (only doing Battlemech map), do this.  Take the elevation, divide it by 6.  From that number, compare it to the horizontal range.  So set X = E/6, and here is the chart:
E/6 - Effect
X<1/4HR - ignore it
1/4HR<=X<1/2HR - add 10% to horizontal Range
1/2HR<=X<3/4HR - add 1/6 HR to itself (FRN)
X=3/4HR - Add 25% to HR
3/4HR<X<HR - Add 37% to HR
So if you want your elevation to affect the range to the target, your difference in elevation levels needs to be at least 50% higher than your range in hexes.

Daemion

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #78 on: 12 October 2017, 11:50:03 »
Did I mention the schizophrenic nature of Mech and Pilot rarity? I must have, but I'll bring it up again.

If Mechs are so rare, how are there mercenaries who can buy, sell and trade in such rare things that the houses would be snatching up as much as they can? How is there a surplus?

If Pilots are so scarce, why is there a dispossessed pool of pilots, and people worrying about becoming one such?



 
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cpip

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Re: Idiosyncratic quibbling
« Reply #79 on: 12 October 2017, 22:11:18 »
That somehow, over the course of multiple centuries, human civilization has ossified into a specific set of five nation-states, all run by dynasties that continue onward without major shifts for eight centuries, not only in the ruling house but in the noble houses below them.

 

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