Author Topic: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor  (Read 4027 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #30 on: 31 October 2017, 17:15:11 »
A few external heatsinks or some extra armor would have fixed most of the early C refit mechs.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #31 on: 31 October 2017, 19:27:21 »
Many thanks for your article! I didn't know the 10S version and it looks cool. My friends, on the other hand, may (or may not) suffer it.  }:)
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #32 on: 31 October 2017, 19:54:09 »
Many thanks for your article! I didn't know the 10S version and it looks cool. My friends, on the other hand, may (or may not) suffer it.  }:)

It's fun, though I prefer its big brother, the HGN-694 Highlander.

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Luciora

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #33 on: 31 October 2017, 20:17:30 »
Its the Executioner Prime' s baby brother?

It's for giving a Clan force an assault-weight unit without actually giving them something as monstrous as a Clan Assault Mech...

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #34 on: 01 November 2017, 10:34:19 »
That's because the Victor C was one of the slapped-together and intentionally sucky Clan refit mechs that we got before the IIC and other Second Line mechs in TRO 3055 were revealed.

Ah that makes alot of sense!

As a Blood Spirit collector ( have yet to actually play a game!) I am more than a bit obsessed with collecting SLDF mechs that the Spirits would have.

Could an actual Victor IIC use its spare tonnage for an Ultra AC or MASC to close faster?

I am building up a Blood Guard Keshik force and their tactics are listed as " a berserk charge" with heavy and assault Mechs. Seems like the Victor in most flavors but esp the AC ones would fit the bill!

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #35 on: 01 November 2017, 11:14:25 »
I am building up a Blood Guard Keshik force and their tactics are listed as " a berserk charge" with heavy and assault Mechs. Seems like the Victor in most flavors but esp the AC ones would fit the bill!
A Keshik is an elite picked unit and would be highly unlikely to have such a, well, worthless Mech as a Victor C. I think you'd only see one in the hands of some bandit-chasing solahma way out in the Clan Periphery...

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #36 on: 01 November 2017, 11:22:37 »
A Keshik is an elite picked unit and would be highly unlikely to have such a, well, worthless Mech as a Victor C. I think you'd only see one in the hands of some bandit-chasing solahma way out in the Clan Periphery...

Yikes harsh but likely true. I will perhaps place it in my Upsilon Galaxy which was the pretty much the bottom of the barrel of the Spirits 

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #37 on: 01 November 2017, 12:01:16 »
Ah that makes alot of sense!

As a Blood Spirit collector ( have yet to actually play a game!) I am more than a bit obsessed with collecting SLDF mechs that the Spirits would have.

Could an actual Victor IIC use its spare tonnage for an Ultra AC or MASC to close faster?

I am building up a Blood Guard Keshik force and their tactics are listed as " a berserk charge" with heavy and assault Mechs. Seems like the Victor in most flavors but esp the AC ones would fit the bill!

I'd say yes to both. Or even an LB 20-X and Supercharger.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #38 on: 01 November 2017, 15:36:29 »
a proper Victor IIC might well go with Improved jumpjets and a UAC20 or large HAG.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #39 on: 01 November 2017, 17:41:15 »
Is there a good HAG Bit you can get from IWM?

mbear

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #40 on: 02 November 2017, 09:08:39 »
Is there a good HAG Bit you can get from IWM?

You'd probably have better luck asking in the Miniatures forum.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #41 on: 02 November 2017, 11:35:58 »
I'd say yes to both. Or even an LB 20-X and Supercharger.

But for dueling mech to mech in clan space the AC 20 is the clear choice right?

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #42 on: 02 November 2017, 11:40:21 »
Is there a good HAG Bit you can get from IWM?

The MG from the 25mm Elemental is probably your best bet.
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #43 on: 02 November 2017, 11:52:46 »
But for dueling mech to mech in clan space the AC 20 is the clear choice right?

Not always. Remember, a lot of Clan Warriors prefer to fight using the range of their weapons, and your Victor pilot won't always be able to choose the terrain.
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #44 on: 05 November 2017, 00:20:43 »
i kinda wish they'd go through and rework the early "C" refits to avoid the underweight problem. in the Victor "C" case, they could easily have just tacked on a few extra tons of ammo, or an ECM, or something small like that. (or made the lasers CMPL's and upped the SRM to a SSRM6..)

Agreed, the Underweight part was always a tad lame to me, but I guess it was all about showing that they were quick weapon swap field refits of salvaged IS mechs for clan garrison troops to use.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #45 on: 05 November 2017, 00:48:27 »
except then they changed that fluff to them being depot level rebuilds of cached SLDF equipment, used to fill out garrison and Solhama unit even in the homeworlds. which makes the lack of proper refitting to use the extra available mass and the terrible design choices regarding things like heat-profiles even more glaring. i mean really, even if you didn't want to mess with the engine to swap to DHS.. why not use some of the freed up mass to mount additional singles os the heat load isn't quite as bad? most of the mechs had criticals to spare after conversion, not having any kind of bulky structural components.
« Last Edit: 05 November 2017, 01:08:39 by glitterboy2098 »

Terrace

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #46 on: 05 November 2017, 01:20:36 »
except then they changed that fluff to them being depot level rebuilds of cached SLDF equipment, used to fill out garrison and Solhama unit even in the homeworlds. which makes the lack of proper refitting to use the extra available mass and the terrible design choices regarding things like heat-profiles even more glaring. i mean really, even if you didn't want to mess with the engine to swap to DHS.. why not use some of the freed up mass to mount additional singles os the heat load isn't quite as bad? most of the mechs had criticals to spare after conversion, not having any kind of bulky structural components.

This is why I choose to ignore that bit of fluff and regard it purely as a temporary solution to give their solahma troops something to fight with until their operational tempo slows down to the point where supply shipments are no longer purely for front-line clusters. And then I fill out any solahma units in later years with stock SLDF designs pulled out of caches, combined with upgraded IS designs taken as isorla with a few IICs thrown in to provide some extra oomph if I'm feeling generous.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #47 on: 05 November 2017, 13:53:44 »
That's why I dig the SLDF designs and why I am curious about the victor. I have always liked its look and I would think the spirits esp when they first fell on hard times would take an unassuming mech and jack it up beyond what the resource flush other clans would have

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #48 on: 05 November 2017, 14:59:05 »
except then they changed that fluff to them being depot level rebuilds of cached SLDF equipment, used to fill out garrison and Solhama unit even in the homeworlds. which makes the lack of proper refitting to use the extra available mass and the terrible design choices regarding things like heat-profiles even more glaring. i mean really, even if you didn't want to mess with the engine to swap to DHS.. why not use some of the freed up mass to mount additional singles os the heat load isn't quite as bad? most of the mechs had criticals to spare after conversion, not having any kind of bulky structural components.

Where is that rewrite from? Can't recall reading anything about that.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #49 on: 05 November 2017, 20:52:04 »
Where is that rewrite from? Can't recall reading anything about that.
Unknown.  The reference page on Sarna and citations list the actual Twycorss book as being the source, but it I could find nothing else of merit that indicates this either.  All intro dates in the MUL state each C version present with an intro date of 3050.  So it is probably the writer's opinion base on circumstantial information that they were more than one offs.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #50 on: 05 November 2017, 23:17:26 »
except then they changed that fluff to them being depot level rebuilds of cached SLDF equipment, used to fill out garrison and Solhama unit even in the homeworlds.
I don't recall any fluff changes, they were from Twycross handbook.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #51 on: 06 November 2017, 00:13:58 »
I don't recall any fluff changes, they were from Twycross handbook.

Their listings in the master unit list complicates things considerably. Some of them pop up on specific home clan and inner sphere lists in addition to the Inner Sphere clan general list. Some never become available to the inner sphere clans at all, while persisting among the home clans and great houses. Some are only on the great house lists. Most gradually go extinct before the republic era.

Staying on topic, the Victor C is listed as exclusively Jade Falcon during the invasion era, and extinct by the civil war era.

Parsing all of this data suggests that all of the clans (homeworld and otherwise) decided to beef up their forces by refitting old cached equipment. Likewise, the Inner sphere produced their own field refits using captured clan technology. This explanation is slightly less troublesome than the Twycross scenario book's suggestion that the clan second line units  were reduced to rebuilding captured inner sphere equipment on the spot. Did they somehow forget to bring their own equipment to their new garrison posting?

Or that section of the master unit list is screwed up.
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #52 on: 06 November 2017, 02:42:39 »
Could be a mix considering both would be field refits that are fazed out over time or lost and not worth replacing, ether way it was nothing more than a stop gap during the big push.
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Kidd

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #53 on: 06 November 2017, 03:46:02 »
Or that section of the master unit list is screwed up.
blasphemy! burn the witch!  ;D

Take the Victor C in context - put it up against the kind of Mechs post-Revival pirates are likely to field, ie random bits and pieces of shattered commands.

Or put it up against a Pariah/Septicemia, and play out the Society's initial strike on Jade Falcon periphery garrisons.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #54 on: 06 November 2017, 11:30:36 »
Did they somehow forget to bring their own equipment to their new garrison posting?

Maybe the Clans weren't expecting the Inner Sphere to inflict as much damage as they did? So the second line warriors had to give up their rides to front-line commands. This left a series of second line warriors without a ride, so the Techs did the best they could.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #55 on: 06 November 2017, 12:27:18 »
Maybe the Clans weren't expecting the Inner Sphere to inflict as much damage as they did? So the second line warriors had to give up their rides to front-line commands. This left a series of second line warriors without a ride, so the Techs did the best they could.

Matches up perfectly with my own headcanon. Assuming that the "C" refits are really nothing more than a temporary measure until their supply lines catch up with them, they'll get gradually shoved out of even the second line units as time goes on after the Truce of Tukayidd.

Remember, what screwed over most of the Clans at Tukayidd was Anatasius Focht making note of how unsuited their logistics were for a long battle and building his strategies around that. With that in mind, it really makes sense that the Jade Falcons were raiding their second line units just to ensure that every MechWarrior participating in the battle had an OmniMech to fight with. They had to make up the difference somewhere to keep their second line Warriors from being Dispossessed, because shipping second line BattleMechs just wasn't as high on the to-do list as it should have been.

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #56 on: 06 November 2017, 16:32:44 »
Maybe the Clans weren't expecting the Inner Sphere to inflict as much damage as they did? So the second line warriors had to give up their rides to front-line commands. This left a series of second line warriors without a ride, so the Techs did the best they could.

Which then raises the question of why the front line units didn't have enough mechs in the first place. These machines appeared from the beginning of the invasion, before any of the clans had suffered significant losses. If they were a post tukayyid thing, then sure, but they weren't. Either way, it creates the impression that somebody forgot to pack enough mechs.

The idea that they were refits produced in the homeworlds to bulk up second line numbers for the invasion, rather than being retrofitted from captured hardware during the invasion, makes more sense to my brain. And it seems to fit with the master unit list giving several of the machines to the home clans as well.
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Terrace

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #57 on: 06 November 2017, 17:01:47 »
Which then raises the question of why the front line units didn't have enough mechs in the first place. These machines appeared from the beginning of the invasion, before any of the clans had suffered significant losses. If they were a post tukayyid thing, then sure, but they weren't. Either way, it creates the impression that somebody forgot to pack enough mechs.

The idea that they were refits produced in the homeworlds to bulk up second line numbers for the invasion, rather than being retrofitted from captured hardware during the invasion, makes more sense to my brain. And it seems to fit with the master unit list giving several of the machines to the home clans as well.

And I consider the info to either be flat-out wrong or a fabrication, preferring an introduction date of 3052, after the Clans have been having a far rougher time than they anticipated. After all, even if they won every battle up to Tukayyid (which they nearly did), they'd still be taking damage from the units they're fighting. It's perfectly logical that they had more OmniMechs shot up beyond repair than they anticipated they'd have by the time of Tukayyid, forcing them to strip second line units of OmniMechs.

After all, even if they used the Year of Peace to take stock of what they needed, they likely still didn't realize how fast they were burning through their supplies in comparison to their anticipated needs. Remember, after the Year of Peace ended, the Inner Sphere commanders knew what they were facing now, and quite a few Clusters were probably dragged into long, bloody meatgrinders that burned through munitions, Elemental suits, and OmniMechs at an accelerated rate compared to before. Sure, they probably won those battles, but they would have lost far more OmniMechs than before. With the next supply shipment not likely to arrive in time for the Battle of Tukayyid, they had to make do with what they had. So they stripped second line units of their OmniMechs. But those second line units still needed 'Mechs to pilot until the supply shipment arrived.

Thus, the "C" refits.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #58 on: 06 November 2017, 19:01:50 »
It's also possible that there's no one definite source, and every explanation has some truth to it.

I posted a request for clarification in the ask the writers board. So maybe we'll get it cleared up eventually?

But hey, how about them victors, huh?
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Re: Mech of the Week: VTR-** Victor
« Reply #59 on: 06 November 2017, 19:54:21 »
It's also possible that there's no one definite source, and every explanation has some truth to it.

I posted a request for clarification in the ask the writers board. So maybe we'll get it cleared up eventually?

But hey, how about them victors, huh?


Agree on both points. So the victor raises a quietion about the limits of clan tech. Can a ho hum unit like the victor be brought up to the standards of 3050, 3067? Post reavings?

If say in 3090 a forgotten cache of stock sldf victors was found in the homeworlds what could be done with them?