How common is EI in the 3140's?

[grimlock1]

XTRO Republic 3 mentions both Wolves and Hell's Horses deploying mechs using Interface Cockpits.

How common is EI in touman's of the era?  During the Clan Invasion, I seem to recall maybe 1 in 5 warriors would have EI, although they would often be grouped together to ease logistical concerns.

Interestingly, VDNI/bVDNI seems generally superior to Clan EI, for a change. 

[Maelwys]

Unknown really. And CGL isn't likely to give generalized numbers I'd think.

I could see its use being on the increase however. First, its not a new technology, so it stands to reason more people might be using it.

And second, with the somewhat limited units that everyone had for a while, Warriors might be willing to go that extra mile to make sure they're better than their competitors. Less so as production ramps up of course, but early on it might have appeared as a good idea (minus the time of recovery of course)

[dragonkid11]

You would think that after nearly a century, the Clanner would at least make EI users live longer so they can fight without going nut when they didn't expire before the mental sickness kicks in

[Liam's Ghost]

You would think that after nearly a century, the Clanner would at least make EI users live longer so they can fight without going nut when they didn't expire before the mental sickness kicks in

Why do that? There's always new warriors to replace them when they fail.  :P

[Archangel]

Rasalhague Dominion and Clan Sea Fox?  Few users given how well they integrated into the Inner Sphere.
Clan Wolf?  Decreased due to logistical strain and the shift away from their ultra-Crusader/aggressive roots under Khan Vlad Ward.  There didn't see to be as much ongoing conflict during the Republic Era between the Wolves and the Lyrans compared to the Falcon-Lyran relations.  Overall decrease due to integration of the large number of freebirth Spheroids.
Clan Jade Falcon?  Increased usage as the influence of Mongol Doctrine in the Falcon touman grew and likely even faster after Malvina Hazen seized power.
Clan Hell's Horses?  As the originators of the Mongrol Doctrine the usage of EI likely increased as the influence of the Mongol Doctrine increased like with the Falcons.
Clan Snow Raven?  Usage likely decreased a little after their integration with the Outworlds Alliance and increased a little as they became more aggressive towards their neighbors not to mention increased use of ProtoMechs.  However with much of their touman concentrated in the aerospace fields and ProtoMechs, the usage likely didn't increase to any significant degree than already existed.
Clan Nova Cats and their offshoot Spirit Cat brethren?  Likely limited given their unClanlike long-term views.

[glitterboy2098]

Unknown really. And CGL isn't likely to give generalized numbers I'd think.

I could see its use being on the increase however. First, its not a new technology, so it stands to reason more people might be using it.

And second, with the somewhat limited units that everyone had for a while, Warriors might be willing to go that extra mile to make sure they're better than their competitors. Less so as production ramps up of course, but early on it might have appeared as a good idea (minus the time of recovery of course)

i think that for most clans it has just shifted from being a mechwarrior thing to being a protowarrior thing.. though i suspect the jade Falcons still use it a lot for mechwarriors.

odds are that use of it will be on the rise post-3150.. not only are protomechs still around, but the Clan Interface cockpits require it, and with how much more effective they make mechs, those cockpits are probably going to catch n fast and propagate around.

[marauder648]

I'd say that Interface Cockpits, depending on how widespread they become will largely render standard EI work obsolete or a 'cheap' option.

[Col Toda]

The Clans has a reputation Stigma for warriors living to old age . So the use of a self destructive cockpit sometime between the ages of 41-51 would make sense as age degrades the Dex and Reflexes the use of a special cockpit to off set physical degradation due to age . Giving an 18 year old mech warrior would reduce the warrior productive life it should be anathema to them . Not dying young in battle is embarrassing . Failing that die in a blaze of glory at middle age is the next best.

[Demiurge]

You would think that after nearly a century, the Clanner would at least make EI users live longer so they can fight without going nut when they didn't expire before the mental sickness kicks in

One gaming group I played with came up with an interesting explanation for the fairly strange lack of progress in this area.  Obviously, this is fanon, but particularly elegant as an explanation.

The scientist castes of the Homeworld clans did come up with a therapy to mitigate the effects of EI in the late 3080s after the had a chance to compare and contrast some of the Blakist implants.  They learned a lot from the toaster-worshipper tech, and figured out a thereputic regimen that would slow down and even reverse the degenerative effects of EI.

Problem was, the therapy requires several consecutive months of downtime outside of the cockpit of a mech in order for the neuroprotective therapy to work its magic.  The tempo of a clan warrior's training regimen is such that this basically never happens.  Maintaining proficiency is more important to them than not going insane.  So, while they do take the drug cocktails the scientists cooked up to offset the problems, it makes very little difference if they never take a break.  The technology does exist, but its limitations clash with clan culture so severely that it rarely helps anyone.

Anyway, that's what we came up with.

[grimlock1]

I'd say that Interface Cockpits, depending on how widespread they become will largely render standard EI work obsolete or a 'cheap' option.

I'm not sure I follow.  EI is required for Clan Interface cockpits.  There is no distinction between "standard" battlemech EI,  proto EI, and Interface cockpit EI.


Idle question... It seems fairly intuitive that using EI to drive a mech or proto is the cause of the "Integration addiction," as alluded in TW, pg 182.  However I'm unclear if it is the use of EI that causes neurological degeneration or is it simply having the hardware?   Aside from the nasty withdrawl effects, could someone simply stop using their EI and suffer no further disability?

[Maelwys]

The writeups in the ATOW books seem to indicate that the issue is the implantation of the devices, rather than the usage. "Each year after implementation" rather than "Each year of use after implementation."

But it doesn't directly spell it out.

[dragonkid11]

So essentially, improve the implant, and the lifespan of the user will improve too.

[Kitsune413]

Typically used by warriors who aren't concerned about lifespan though.

I bet Spirit Cat purifiers use them. Those cats are crazy.

[Liam's Ghost]

"Improving the Implant" is probably trickier than it might sound.

The brain doesn't react well to having foreign objects stuck in it. It tends to become inflamed and wall them off with scar tissue. Also, your brain is kinda free floating and even a little bit of wiggling of the implants in your brain matter will gradually cause brain damage.

Also there's apparently a lot of juice going through the thing, enough that an individual suffers physical harm from damage to his battlemech (above and beyond that you experience with a normal neurohelmet).

I mean, there might be room to improve things, buffered VDNI seems a better technology. But it seems less of a question of making a better implant and more of a question of needing a better brain. Which appears to be beyond the capabilities of the clans.

That said, aeropilot phenotypes tolerate EI better (according to the early stuff about protomechs). So there might be another avenue to try for our hypothetical researchers. 

[grimlock1]

I mean, there might be room to improve things, buffered VDNI seems a better technology. But it seems less of a question of making a better implant and more of a question of needing a better brain. Which appears to be beyond the capabilities of the clans.

Users of stock VDNI last about 10 years, bVDNI last about 15.  Both are a far cry from the 1-3 years for Clanners.
The VDNI seems to be better on the table too.

So it looks like we already have our "better implant"

BTW, does VDNI look like anything? Does it connect to the vehicle wirelessly?

[Dragon Cat]

I thought the interface suit was the better “implant” instead of needing EI the whole suit acted as a conduit to translate the pilots movements and balance to the BattleMech

[glitterboy2098]

interface cockpits require either VDNI (blakist model) or EI (clan model). the PA is a part of it, but brain to machine interfaces are a key part of how it works, and probably one of the reasons it doesn't need a gyro if it has the interface cockpit.

in a sense, the clan interface cockpit is like a ultraheavy protomech cockpit adapted to full sized mechs. it uses both EI and a PALsuit forcefeedback control rig working together to control the vehicle directly.

[Maelwys]

So it looks like we already have our "better implant"

Not necessarily. VDNI may allow the user to survive longer, but EI is much more integrated into the unit, and provides additional bonuses over what VDNI does. For instance, you can ignore the modifiers for darkness, and you reduce the to-hit penalties for woods and smoke by 1 per hex (to a minimum of 1 per hex). You also get an active probe with a range of 1 hex.

So yeah. EI perhaps knocks the Warrior out sooner, but it also provides additional benefits.

[Liam's Ghost]

Prototype DNI provided terrifying levels of bonuses, but it drove its first and only test subject insane immediately (even with medications) and was so sensitive even hits against armor caused pilot damage. There's a clear tradeoff between what the system does for you and how quickly it destroys you.

[Wrangler]

It's kinda hard to say.  The fluff isn't something that effects normal game.  I'd imagine it's elite pilots would be ones who are the ones doing it or the ones who on their last legs.  Remember, by 3132, Clan Tourmans shrunk to go along with Devlin Stone's imposed military drawdowns. So out that bloodname pool, there must be barely handful by then.

So I would think EI are likely alot more rarer. With Warriors doing the EI assigned to the Science Caste.

I remembered that Era Report: 3145 has a entry for the Elstars, but we don't have alot info on them. Their suppose to be genitally engineered super Trueborns vs someone with a El emplant. They did mentioned in Heretic's Faith, at least mentioned them with the Nova Cats during the invasion of the Republic. I don't know if they were using the EI  emplats.

Rules wise; Units like Ryoken III-XP / Skinwalker - is Experimental. Thus it's stupidly rare. One out of Cluster possibly? It depends on how much additional rules they want deal with i guess. 

[grimlock1]

Rules wise; Units like Ryoken III-XP / Skinwalker - is Experimental. Thus it's stupidly rare. One out of Cluster possibly? It depends on how much additional rules they want deal with i guess.

True but most clans seem to have a robust protomech program.

[Maelwys]

Part of the problem I think would be having to cross train the pilots really. Sure, you can do it one or two off as something experimental, but if you start issuing the Machina Domini tech on a wider scale...

[massey]

EI would probably be used by the super-aggressive young pilots who want to make a name for themselves quickly, and hope to die before they burn out.  During a long period of relative peace, there aren't that many opportunities for glory.  But with a new invasion on the horizon (ilClan book?), every 18 year old who passes the test for warrior status would have to seriously consider getting an implant.

It's like steroids in baseball.  There are major health issues, but it makes you an ass-kicker during your prime.  Do you want to be a mechwarrior?  Or do you want to start as a Star Captain and go up from there?

[Bosefius]

In canon I can't recall them being mentioned in any of the Dark Ages (or beyond) novels or sourcebooks. I can see it's used on the rise, at least among the "Mongol" Jade Falcons. We also don't know anything about the Homeworld's Clans, they may have improved it for all we know.

[Decoy]

The only person I've heard mentioned that uses EI is Sadia Wolf, the Catapult pilot from the Dark Ages set.