Author Topic: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?  (Read 2277 times)

truetanker

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Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« on: 17 December 2017, 18:37:47 »
I want to lift off a standard game play Planet in a dropship. What is the minimum Movement Point(s) needed to lift off said Planet?

Thank you in advance,
Truetanker
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
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Vition2

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #1 on: 17 December 2017, 19:04:18 »
The answer is on page 88 of total warfare: "A unit cannot lift off if it has a Safe Thrust of 2 or less."

I'm not seeing anything in the construction rules that require you to use whole numbers for Safe Thrust ratings, so in a custom ship, technically anything spending more mass than that required for a 2/3 rating would work.  Though canon ships would require at least a 3/5 rating.

If I missed something the requirement would end up as a 3/5 movement profile.

There is potential that other books apply modifiers for high- or low- gravity worlds, potentially allowing even lower safe thrusts, but I didn't find them.

truetanker

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #2 on: 17 December 2017, 19:16:42 »
Thanks, my copy is storage.

So 2 thrust needed minimum, may or may not be Over Thrust included. Thanks.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

cray

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #3 on: 22 December 2017, 15:58:21 »
I'm not seeing anything in the construction rules that require you to use whole numbers for Safe Thrust ratings

Tech Manual also doesn't say you have to use whole numbers for 'Mechs' walking MPs, but it's left to implication. ;)

It's actually explicit in WarShip/JumpShip/space station construction, but that's the only place you'll find it in BT's construction rules.

p. 147 StratOps:
Station-Keeping and Maneuvering Drives may not be combined on a single
unit, and only WarShips may mount Maneuvering Drives. Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust is selected in whole numbers, not fractions.
Maneuvering Drives
may not have a Safe Thrust of less than 1. For lower thrust than 1, a WarShip
must mount a Station-Keeping Drive** instead of a Maneuvering Drive (in this
instance the WarShip moves as per a JumpShip [see p. 62]).”

Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

truetanker

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #4 on: 22 December 2017, 19:33:49 »
Um.. Cray?

Break down please...

Does state I can have a thrust pf one? And a Dropper can mount a 1/2 or do I need more. (2/3)

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Vition2

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #5 on: 22 December 2017, 20:01:48 »
Tech Manual also doesn't say you have to use whole numbers for 'Mechs' walking MPs, but it's left to implication. ;)

So you're saying I can technically game the system even more?  Awesome!  >:D

Does state I can have a thrust pf one? And a Dropper can mount a 1/2 or do I need more. (2/3)

If Cray's implication stands, then you would need at least a 3/5 thrust profile (the rule in question states "A unit cannot lift off if it has a Safe Thrust of 2 or less." - underlined for emphasis).

Otherwise, you can get off on a technicality where you need to spend exactly 0.5 tons more than is necessary for a 2/3 rated engine.

cray

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #6 on: 22 December 2017, 21:33:37 »
So you're saying I can technically game the system even more?  Awesome!  >:D

Y'know, it might work in a non-hex-based map with minis... :)

Quote
If Cray's implication stands, then you would need at least a 3/5 thrust profile (the rule in question states "A unit cannot lift off if it has a Safe Thrust of 2 or less." - underlined for emphasis).

Yep, 3/5 minimum for a 1G planet.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

truetanker

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #7 on: 23 December 2017, 14:00:36 »
Oh, ok...

Vition2, about my PM...

Would it work?

Yes or No.

Thanks all,
TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Vition2

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #8 on: 23 December 2017, 14:28:41 »
Vition2, about my PM...

Would it work?

Yes or No.

Thanks all,
TT

Based on a couple assumptions: No.

First, the dropship and warship would have to disconnect from each other to engage in combat maneuvers.  Maneuvering in combat is not possible when a dropship is attached.  I forgot about this until just a few minutes ago, otherwise you'd have already seen a PM about it.

Second, using a dropship as "supply" ship in order to use all the mass available to the warship is entirely possible, and something a medium-sized fleet should think of to reduce costs.

The major assumption I'm making in your proposal is that you are intended to use the dropship to land on a planet to resupply itself, then attach to the dropship to become a virtual mobile "beans and ammo" depot.  Since I'm going to back off on gaming the system a bit, this means you would need a dropper with at least a 3/5 thrust profile.

I hope that answers your question adequately, if not, I'm happy to field more questions.  :D

truetanker

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Re: Weird question: Just how little in MP do I need?
« Reply #9 on: 23 December 2017, 14:45:54 »
I thank you...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016