Author Topic: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)  (Read 1685 times)

Cannonshop

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It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« on: 29 January 2018, 00:45:33 »
Build a nightmare for ground pounders.  I'm looking for the most awful, carpet-bombing/strike delivering real estate rearranging fighter or smallcraft you can conceptualize.  I'm talking something that can annhilate the real estate, move the mud, blow shit on the ground into the sky.

May Not: be a dropship or bigger (no warships for this, or pocket warships, or orbital bombardment platforms)
Must: Be difficult to 'threshold' by return fire
Should: have sufficient thrust and maneuverability to remain airborne while fully loaded with ground-rearranging ordinance.

Scoring:

4 points for the ability to take a large laser or Clan ERML to the sides and rear without thresholding.
6 points for the ability to deliver multiple Arrow IV munitions.
10 points for groovy fluff that describes the reason this design was created by a given faction, which faction uses it, and why.
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Red Pins

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Re: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« Reply #1 on: 29 January 2018, 16:48:52 »
I have a small craft but its a spheroid and not really a bomber, let me see what I can pull together.
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Valles

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Re: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« Reply #2 on: 29 January 2018, 18:38:23 »
Oh, I have just the thing.


                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  AM-4TL Atlatl
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              100 tons
Power Plant:       200 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:         
    2 LRM 10

In 2880, a new revision of the full combat manual of the DCMS included a cryptic reference to a fighter type not previously known to the Inner Sphere. The 'Atlatl' was identified as a very large aerospace fighter with a cylindrical hull and long, straight wings mounted close to its center-point, while the engine fired through three externally podded fusion torches fixed to the rear fuselage, and DCMS troops facing them were instructed that crashed Atlatls were to be subjected to concerted fire from any available forces, lest they take off again and resume their mission.

For nearly a century and a half, the entry was regarded as apocryphal, an urban legend, either within or about the DCMS, or possibly an uncharacteristic joke on the part of the Dragon, but in 3026, a single example flying in Kurita colors was captured for the second time, and LCAF analysts were able to examine the mysterious 'Atlatl' for themselves.

Onboard documentation, helpfully etched onto various components, identified the craft as an AM-4TL Aerospace Bomber. It had two ten-tube launchers for standard LRMs, one in the nose and one in the tail, sharing a two-ton magazine, which the DCMS had replaced with Telos Decaclusters without incident. It had reasonably conventional, though unfamiliar, avionics and electronic systems. Its fusion engine was unusual, and was finally identified as being based on the Reichswerk 180, the in-house reactor of a Terran Age of War company that had eventually gone under when their proprietary technology proved unsuitable to scale up to higher power levels. Indeed, the Atlatl's reactor was only a Class 200, making the hundred-ton craft painfully sluggish in flight, despite its capacious seven-ton reaction mass reserve and attendant endurance.

What did impress the Lyran analysts, however, was the armor fraction - an awe-inspiring twenty-seven and a half tons of standard plate - and the vast internal bomb bays, capable of lifting and deploying an intimidating forty-two tons of expendable munitions. The Combine manual's warning that crashed Atlatls could resume flight operations without repair was also confirmed; the mass of armor and monocoque structural integration of same gave the airframe phenomenal strength, and close examination showed that the captured example had suffered between four and six major crashes without long-term impairment.

Taken as a whole, the Atlatl was a formidable and ruthlessly focused ground attack platform, and the Lyran Commonwealth, and Federated Commonwealth after it, offered to pay handsomely for more information about its origins... Unfortunately, in vain. That some distant Periphery colony with access to only Age of War technology had built it to make Draconis ground forces exceedingly miserable could only be conjectured, not confirmed.

Quirk: Internal Bomb Bay
Quirk: Poor Performance

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  AM-4TL Atlatl
Mass:              100 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  200 Fusion                                                 8.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 10                                                  .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    7.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (440 total armor pts)                            27.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                144
   Left/Right Wings:                 102/102
   Aft:                                  92


Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 10                   Nose         6      6      6     --    4      5.00
  Ammo (LRM 10) 12         ---                                           1.00
1 LRM 10                   Aft          6      6      6     --    4      5.00
  Ammo (LRM 10) 12         ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 8     58.00
Tons Left:                                                              42.00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        4,298,600 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,373
Cost per BV:       3,130.81
Weapon Value:      1,708 (Ratio = 1.24)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 11;  MRV = 9;  LRV = 3;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 4,  Armor/Structure: 11 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FA;  Point Value: 14
                   Specials: if


ajac

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Re: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« Reply #3 on: 29 January 2018, 21:30:17 »
Code: [Select]
                  AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  B-1  Excaliber
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              100 tons
Power Plant:       400 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       6
Maximum Thrust:    9
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    4 AMS
    1 Guardian ECM
    1 TAG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
The B-1 Excaliber is a fast moving heavy bomber capable of carrying a large
bomb load to a target anywhere in a solar system.

==Capabilities:==
A 100 ton aerospace fighter capable of up to 4.5g of manuvarbiltiy she can
carry a heavy bomb load to any place it can read. beyond her massive bomb load
she has AMS defenses on all arks and eletronics to keep her protected. Her tag
even allows her to guid her own bombs to targets as well as others including
long range missile strikes,

==Battle History:==
During the Clan invasion a mercenary unit (and also the maker of the B1) used
a squadron of bombers to destroy severall clan dropships. With their guardian
ecm at full power the 12 bombers were able to use TAG guied bombers to destroy
several dropships.

==Deployment==
Relatively new design only a squadron or two exist.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  B-1  Excaliber
Mass:              100 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  400 Fusion                                                52.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 6
      Maximum Thrust: 9
Structural Integrity: 10                                                  .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Double                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    8.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (502 total armor pts)                      28.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                169
   Left/Right Wings:                 125/125
   Aft:                                  83

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 AMS                      Nose        --     --     --     --    1       .50
  Ammo (AMS) 12            ---                                           1.00
1 Guardian ECM             Nose        --     --     --     --    0      1.50
1 TAG                      Nose        --     --     --     --    0      1.00
1 AMS                      RW          --     --     --     --    1       .50
1 AMS                      LW          --     --     --     --    1       .50
  Ammo (AMS) 24            ---                                           2.00
1 AMS                      Aft         --     --     --     --    1       .50
  Ammo (AMS) 12            ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 4    100.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        7,389,400 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,566
Cost per BV:       4,718.65
Weapon Value:      332 (Ratio = .21)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 11;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 6,  Armor/Structure: 13 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FH;  Point Value: 16
                   Specials: ecm, tag

on another note when are getting revised rules for combat vehicles? I like the support  rules but love to see them expanded for combat vehicles.

Cowdragon

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Re: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« Reply #4 on: 29 January 2018, 22:09:10 »
I will be coming back to this thread. On this particular computer I don't have any aerospace design programs. I lost my Heavy Metal Aero a couple years ago. Got the case, but no idea what happened to the disk. Will work with MegaMekLab as soon as I get it installed.

But I'll give a short summary real quick.

Since the mid-90's my most successful bomber design is a fast little 25 ton Aerospace Fighter. The reason for this was that in the old Battlespace Rules (which is when it was originally designed) a fighter could carry 1 bomb for every 5 tons it weighed, and if I remember correctly, it slowed down and got a +1 penalty to piloting for each 5 tons of ordinance it carried.

Among other reasons for me using a 25 ton fighter, they were SUPER cheap. To reference another Literary Universe, I love me the TIE Fighter approach. Overwhelm an opponent with hoards of super cheap fighters.

The first pass over the battlefield they would each drop 5 cluster bombs in a carpet bombing run. 5 hexes long, 1 bomb each hex. Cluster Bombs did 5 points of damage to the center hex they hit and 5 points to each of the surrounding 6 hexes. This allowed me to very cheaply saturate an area, as I could field dozens of them on the cheap.

Two rounds later, they came back for a strafing run. They had Inner Sphere Targeting Computers and Small X-Pulse Lasers for this purpose. I think 4 Small X-Pulse Lasers. The reason for making them X-Pulse was under the old rules, the energy weapon had to have a range of at least 4 to use in a strafing run. It doesn't sound like much, but 6 fighters, dropping 30 cluster bombs and a couple rounds later firing 24 small lasers was pretty devastating. The fact that I could field multiple squadrons of these was awesome!

I never quite figured out the threshold thing,  and I tended to lose them pretty fast due to LBX AC return fire. But the shear number I put over a battlefield kept me in firm control of air superiority.

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

Cowdragon

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Re: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« Reply #5 on: 29 January 2018, 22:23:00 »
OK, whipped this up quick on MegaMekLab, which I haven't used in a couple years, I think. But it looks about right. They were multi-purpose little fighters.

Air Superiority, bombing, escort...they had a lot to do as my standard fighter back in the day. At only 656 BV (again, sounds about right) I could generally have 3-4 for every fighter my opponent fielded. I used to call them the Shuriken, but that name has since been taken... pretty sure the Talon is taken as well... but it'll have to do until I can figure something else out.

Code: [Select]
Talon Aero IS experimental 25 tons BV: 656 Cost: 2,776,631 C-bills  Movement: 9/14 Engine: 175 XL Heat Sinks: 11 [22]  Structural Integrity: 9 Armor: 99 (Heavy Ferro-Aluminum)

  Armor
Nose
25
Left Wing
25
Right Wing
25
Aft
24
 
Weapons/Loc/Heat
2 Small X-Pulse Lasers, Nose, 3 Heat, 3 DMG
1 Small X-Pulse Laser, RWG, 3 Heat, 3 DMG
1 Small X-Pulse Laser, LWG, 3 Heat, 3 DMG

Equipment
Laser AMS, AFT, 7 Heat
Targeting Computer NOS

6 Tons of Fuel

« Last Edit: 29 January 2018, 23:44:33 by Cowdragon »

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

Liam's Ghost

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Re: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« Reply #6 on: 29 January 2018, 22:26:14 »
Just wanna mention that the arrow IV  missile system can be mounted on an aerofighter and air launched against ground targets.

So...


Thunderchief
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced      3055+
Standard        - 
Tech Rating: E/E-F-E-D

Weight: 100 tons
BV: 1,536
Cost: 6,538,000 C-bills

Movement: 6/9
Engine: 400
Heat Sinks: 10
Fuel Points: 0/400 (5.0 tons)

Structural Integrity: 10
Armor: 360
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          101 
Left Wing      89 
Right Wing     89 
Aft            81 

Weapons   Loc  Heat 
---------------------
Arrow IV  NOS   10   

Ammo           Loc  Shots 
---------------------------
Arrow IV Ammo  NOS      5 
Arrow IV Ammo  NOS      5 


Four underwing missiles, one internal system with ten reloads.

Sorry, blanking on fluff.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Valles

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Re: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« Reply #7 on: 05 February 2018, 22:36:34 »
May Not: be a dropship or bigger (no warships for this, or pocket warships, or orbital bombardment platforms)
Must: Be difficult to 'threshold' by return fire
Should: have sufficient thrust and maneuverability to remain airborne while fully loaded with ground-rearranging ordinance.

Scoring:

4 points for the ability to take a large laser or Clan ERML to the sides and rear without thresholding.
6 points for the ability to deliver multiple Arrow IV munitions.
10 points for groovy fluff that describes the reason this design was created by a given faction, which faction uses it, and why.

I'm curious how this all scores out, so, I figure I'll take a go at it.

Given the range of design approaches, I'm'a add a score category of one point per Arrow IV carried, and another ranking Arrow IV delivery vs cbill cost.

Atlatl: Threshold yes, Arrow IVs (either 44 or 10, depending if they go in bomb bays by tonnage or slots), fluff yes, cbills/Arrow 98k/430k (Rank 1 - 4pts) 68 or 34 points

Excalibur: Threshold yes, Arrow IVs 4, fluff yes, cbills/Arrow 1.8 million (Rank 3 - 2pts) 26 points

Talon: Threshold no, Arrow IVs 1, fluff no, cbills/Arrow 2.8 million (Rank 4 - 1pt) 2 points

Thunderchief: Threshold yes, Arrow IVs 14, fluff no, cbills/Arrow 467k (Rank 2 - 3 pts) 27 points


Observations

- I genuinely expected the cost-effectiveness category to help the Talon, but, uh, nope. It's not a terrible idea for the attack role, but it's not suited to the competition.

- The Excalibur was really hurt by the 'OK, how many Arrows?' addition; with only external hard points, it just couldn't keep up with the pain-on-target of the two frontrunners. That said, it is absolutely the hardest to kill, which is nice, and would tie under the original criteria.

- Obviously, I would like the Atlatl, but even allowing for its limited tech base it's fundamentally the most vulnerable of the three main contenders. The lack of speed lets anything outmaneuver it, and of course a crit into the open bomb bay would be... bad. Its actual placement is kind of quantum indeterminate, depending on how bomb bays interact with Arrow IV carriage.

- Thunderchief's big hurt in the points department is the lack of fluff; otherwise it's a very credible middle-of-the-road option, and I suspect the platform that most powers in-setting would actually buy.

Cowdragon

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Re: It's Build-a-bomber day!! (Design challenge)
« Reply #8 on: 06 February 2018, 01:37:38 »
Thank you for the breakdown. It was fun to see how they all stacked up. :)

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA