Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle  (Read 12283 times)

GreyWolfActual

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Welcome to this week’s VotW.  It’s been a while since I wrote one, but I’ve been having a itch to write one for a while.  The first vehicle I ever covered was the 90 ton Ajax.  I’ll be returning to the assault class with my first article in a while.  That assault vehicle is the Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle.

So, basics.  We’ve got an eight-five ton, tracked, assault tank, which is about what you’d expect to find.  The tank is produced by Aldis Industries, so it shouldn’t be surprising that we have a 3/5 movement profile coming from the standard 255 fusion engine.  This is a pretty bland opening, but it means that we’re going to have, as assault tanks go, a fairly cheap one.

Wrapping the guts are a total of thirteen-and-a-half tons of standard armor.  Again, nothing special, but it provides a solid enough 52/44/36/40 pattern.  Unfortunately, “solid enough” only works if you have the firepower to back it up, and we shall see, it doesn’t.  At that level of protection, the distribution is not as important.  However, the armor, I believe, could be equalized better.  Keep in mind, this is an infantry fighting vehicle, it’s going to be fighting where infantry fight, and that means cities where your enemy isn’t going to be coming at you from the front all, or even most, of the time.

The Trajan’s weapons load, for an eight-five ton tank, is actually rather anemic.  The turret bags a pair of MML-7s, a LAC/5, and an ER Medium.  The ammo, four tons for the MMLs, two for the LAC, is contained within the body of the tank.  Supplementing that weaponry are a quartet of light machine guns, spread out across the front, both sides, and rear.  They share a full ton of ammo also in the turret.  Defensively, the tank has not one but two Anti-Missile Systems, each with a full ton of ammo, an ECM, and a C3 Slave.

That weaponry is all well suited to the role of infantry-support, but it’s not taken to the logical point.  It’s as though Dickens was writing A Tale of Two Citie and wrote “It was the best of times, it was whatever...”  It starts well but goes nowhere.  A quartet of machine guns are pretty good for anti-infantry defense, but the TRO states that they were for close in defense.  Close in, heavy machine guns are the better choice.

Now speaking of deficiencies, the TRO spells them out quite well.  It notes the low speed, weak weaponry, insufficient armor.  This is all balanced out both by the low cost, and one other factor:  it’s cargo.

I hadn’t mentioned the cargo until now because it’s really the core of the tank.  An eight ton cargo bay is not something you expect to find on an assault tank.  It’s really large for a tank.  Now the concept is nothing new, the Israelis have been doing it for decades with the Merkava.  However, the Trajan, for all practical purposes, takes this to an absurd extreme.  This thing can carry four, yes Virginia four, platoons of foot infantry.  By current rules, that’s no less than 112 fully armed infantry.  To put that in perspective, that would require SIXTEEN M2 Bradleys.

Now I will confess that I’ve never been in the Army, much less an M2 Bradley.  However, I’m pretty sure that simply by tripling the size of a Bradley, you couldn’t fit sixteen times more people in there.  Nor do I think that you could simply just cram more people in.  It’s my understanding that elbow room is at a premium in most IFVs these days.

But back to Battletech.  With four platoons of foot infantry, two of mechanized, or two platoons of Battle Armor, the Trajan has plenty of organic support.  If you’re equipped with infantry, the Trajan proves to be a decent way to get many of them to the battle.  It’s weak firepower can easily be supplemented with Hauberks and Grenadiers for extra missile power.  Both of those battle armors are used by the Republic, the primary user of the vehicle, and therefore good choices to use to supplement this.

The most effective way to use the Trajan is to simply go straight towards the battle.  Your armor is greatest on the front and you’re too slow to take a circuitous route.  The Trajan’s primary goal is to get the infantry to the battle and if it does that at the cost of being immobilized, that’s alright.  What would be far worse is to be immobilized too far away for the on board infantry to be able to contribute to the battle.

Now there are two variants, but neither is all too prevalent.  The first was a Blakist variant, and the original design of the vehicle.  The only difference is the abandonment of the ECM and C3 for a C3i.  Without Blakists ordering equipment (or existing) anymore, C3i is no longer much useful, and the swap being so simple means that anyone who still had C3i has had ample opportunity to dispose of it for the newer ECM/C3 combo.  The second variant is infinitely less useful.  It uses an ICE to power the vehicle and that less useful engine requires the MMLs to be downgraded to an LRM-10 and Streak-6.  It also loses an AMS and the ER Medium Laser.  That’s not at all worth the cost savings.  At somepoint, if you’re going to invest in an eighty-five ton tank, you should be ready to invest in it.

As for changes I would make, well, there are many.  However, as I often said in the old VotWs, where is the point between making improvements and just outright designing your own vehicle?  The Trajan has so many flaws, to fix them all would leave you with a vehicle that does not bear much resemblance to what you started with.  Nonetheless, there are some changes that are simple and worthwhile.  For starters, I would dump the C3.  Your job is to deliver infantry, not spot for a unit.  The Trajan doesn’t have the firepower to stay back and snipe, nor should it since it will probably be carrying lots of infantry.  Nor is the objective of a spotter one that the Trajan is equipped for either.  It doesn’t have the speed and it doesn’t have the weaponry suited for a close in fight.  So dropping the C3 buys a much needed ton.  The LAC/5’s justification is that is usually carries precision ammo.  That doesn’t work too well for me on this tank.  I don’t think the biggest threat to it will be fast movers.  I think it’s anemic long-range firepower is a bigger threat.  Consequently, I would drop the LAC.  This frees up seven tons.  I would use my free heats and keep max potential damage the same by adding another ER Medium to the turret (this will also keep the turret weight the same).  The remaining six (seven with the C3) tons, I would split.  Two tons would go to the MMLs for Artemis, giving a potential boost at both ranges, but more so long.  I would also invest another three tons in upgrading them to MML-9s for more firepower.  The ammo longevity would decrease, but a Trajan is not that long for the world anyways.  With the final ton I would give a half ton to CASE in the body and move the front machine gun ammo there too.  That last half ton has no better place than armor.  A mere half ton doesn’t do much, but I would give it as follows: 52/46/40/40.  Another variant idea would be to not upgrade the MML-7s and use those extra tons for more armor.  That would substantially improve the survivability, though I would not say it improves the overall quality of the Trajan that much.

So that’s the centerpiece of the Republic of the Sphere Armed Forces mobile infantry units.  It’s slow, undergunned, underarmored, and unwanted.  But it’s cheap, carries a lot of infantry, and very common in the RAF.  I give them props for trying to make the best out of an altogether lackluster assault tank.  If you can get your hands on a smaller, faster, APC/IFV, do so.  If you need a lot of infantry space, try and get a Karnov.  If you really need eight tons, well, you could do worse than the Trajan, which I guess is the best way to sum it up.

The Trajan: you could do worse.
« Last Edit: 31 January 2011, 15:36:31 by GreyWolfActual »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #1 on: 31 January 2011, 13:13:48 »
To maximize the free sinks and get more range, I'd switch the LAC and ERML to 2 LPPCs.  Other than that I pretty much agree with GWA's mods.
 
I really like the idea of this tank though, it's basically less and AFV and more a self-propelled bunker, a concept I've explored before with home-brew Behemoth upgrades.  It's just that the execution didn't hold up so well in this case.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #2 on: 31 January 2011, 13:25:51 »
You could do worse but honestly, considering the speed, you can do better for moving infantry.  It's a lot of weirdness for not a lot of practical use, although I suppose there's places that specific mix of capabilities would be handy.

About the article itself: Broken tags.  Bigger issue is the DIY - we really are supposed to stick things like that somewhere else these days.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #3 on: 31 January 2011, 13:33:21 »
The Trajan was really the only design in TRO3085 that rubbed me the wrong way, and for two reasons:

1) Basically everything GWA talked about in the article. If I need to move that much infantry around, I'll use a Maxim II and save myself one hell of a pile of money while ensuring the infantry actually survive to get somewhere.

2) The art. Out of the whole TRO, the Trajan has the only illustration I really can't stand, and it doesn't just extend to the art style - I think this thing looks like the bastard offspring of a TIE tank and a mosquito that someone grafted some missile tubes on to. This tank is so ugly it makes me want to start playing a Capellan force just so I can beat the crap out of it repeatedly.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #4 on: 31 January 2011, 13:34:35 »
The Maxim II is arguably an even worse idea under fire, as noted in the article on it.  Sure, it's faster, but the armor's not great considering there's 16 tons of infantry in there.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #5 on: 31 January 2011, 13:39:14 »
It's worse under fire, sure, but at 8/12 it can at least generate a movement mod to make up for low armor. Moreover, its BV is less than half of that of the Trajan - thus, I could take one Maxim for every two Trajans I might have needed, and spend the rest of the BV or C-Bills on things to lay down covering fire.

Honestly, this is just comparing within TRO3085, which I think hosts a collection of infantry carriers that mostly trade common sense for massive carrying capacity across the board. Well, except the Fensalir, but that could just be my repressed Lyran side going "squee!"
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #6 on: 31 January 2011, 13:57:53 »
It's worse under fire, sure, but at 8/12 it can at least generate a movement mod to make up for low armor. Moreover, its BV is less than half of that of the Trajan - thus, I could take one Maxim for every two Trajans I might have needed, and spend the rest of the BV or C-Bills on things to lay down covering fire.

That doesn't help enough in my view - hitting fast units is increasingly easy and part of that modifier depends on taking the chance of a PSR in a lot of situations.  The potential losses to the passengers are worth more in the way of risk as well, as is stranding a larger portion of the enemy's force.  The Trajan can actually drive some units off and take a surprising amount of pounding.  A Maxim II can't fight off a 3025 Mongoose and many of the Locusts or Hermes IIs, all of which can pace it.

Attaching escorts raises its own set of problems.  What are you escorting it with?  There's a surprising number of 'Mechs that can pace it and take a decent pounding and, as noted, the prize can well be worth the risks.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #7 on: 31 January 2011, 14:21:57 »
I also agree with all of the above comments as well.  I guess the Quartermaster was asleep at wheel when prorposal to use Non-Blakist version of this tank came through.

Question:  Won't it useful if the Experimental Battle Armor C3 be used?     Have squads advance from the tank and play spotter?  I'm clear if C3 could help with that, with its MML launcher playing fire support.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #8 on: 31 January 2011, 14:23:23 »
That doesn't help enough in my view - hitting fast units is increasingly easy and part of that modifier depends on taking the chance of a PSR in a lot of situations.  The potential losses to the passengers are worth more in the way of risk as well, as is stranding a larger portion of the enemy's force.  The Trajan can actually drive some units off and take a surprising amount of pounding.  A Maxim II can't fight off a 3025 Mongoose and many of the Locusts or Hermes IIs, all of which can pace it.

Attaching escorts raises its own set of problems.  What are you escorting it with?  There's a surprising number of 'Mechs that can pace it and take a decent pounding and, as noted, the prize can well be worth the risks.

You've got a point. I dunno - maybe it's just because of how ugly the damned thing is, but I just can't bring myself to like the Trajan. I'm strangely reminded of old Calvin and Hobbes strips - the ones where Calvin's dad tells him that doing something he doesn't like builds character. The Trajan builds character like a crack team of Army engineers builds a bridge - but I don't want my infantry carriers to build character, I want them to not get stuck in a slugfest with something nasty. The Maxim, although not faster than most harasser light 'Mechs, at least has a chance to run away - maybe over water, or some other hypothetical situation. The Trajan doesn't have a chance at that, though - 3/5 just isn't enough speed for a tank to do anything other than ponderously crawl forward while it gets kicked in the ass.
« Last Edit: 31 January 2011, 14:26:28 by CitizenErased »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #9 on: 31 January 2011, 14:23:44 »
The problem I have  with those multiple platoon/squad designs is the difficulty of deploying the infantry. A smart opponent wil do horrible things. Also I don't like to put all my eggs into a basket.

I stay with the old 1 platoon/vee carriers.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #10 on: 31 January 2011, 14:43:47 »
Problem foot Infantry bays are 3 tons for 28/30 men, at 8 tons your only carrying 2 foot infantry or jump platoons, a single motorized platoon, or two BA squads (or four with BA weights and using PALs).

Or if your just packing in men with no regard, upwards of 80 people can be fitted inside (at 0.1 tons per person).

Though I doubt it's realy intended to fight mechs or other Heavy Tanks, It's an infantry support vehicle not a MBT.
It's major use is that for an APC it's quite well armored (though a bit light for assault class vehicles), with a lackluster but effective weapons package for supporting it's infantry.

It however a very nitch type vehicle, thats seems to have gotten used out side it's roles.
It's major advantage is that unlike most APCs it's got plenty of armor and a far bit of bite to survive an ambush from enemy infantry, it's down side is it's dose not have the speed to get out of one (so it has to fight).

Basically it's an APC that has the speed and armor of an MBT with the firepower and troop capacity of an IFV...

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #11 on: 31 January 2011, 14:45:32 »
The problem I have  with those multiple platoon/squad designs is the difficulty of deploying the infantry. A smart opponent wil do horrible things. Also I don't like to put all my eggs into a basket.

Keep in mind that different types do require more tonnage.  If you're using optional TacOps rules about BA cargo needs, that also needs to be factored in when moving heavy and assault suits.  If you're moving an assault squad, you're using 8 tons under those rules.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #12 on: 31 January 2011, 14:59:38 »
Definitely not an optimized unit, but one that has a role for me.

To me, the defining part of the Trajan's name is the word 'Assault'. It's an assault-weight design that can take assault-level firepower and keep coming(for a little while. No need to get cocky with it.). I'll be using it to support assault tanks by carrying assault suits. I'm currently playing through a large Republic vs Liao city fight, and one of the weaknesses of my force has been the high number of wheeled vehicles taking a few hits and being immobilized(and due to forced withdrawal, abandoned). Had I gone with tracked Trajans instead of wheeled units like Bollas, Rangers, or Gigginses, I'd probably have a higher proportion of my vehicles still in the fight. In the future, I'll probably be using either a 3-tanks-1-Trajan lance to give the lance integral BA support, or put the Trajans in the third lance of an assault vehicle company, to give the tank lances more independent ability while the Trajans reinforce weak points as needed.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #13 on: 31 January 2011, 15:22:30 »
I'm inclined to agree with Weirdo - there's times you need that mix of capabilities.  Whether they're often enough to keep specialized units like this around is another debate but logical military acquisition is something that died out at some point after WWII in BattleTech.  (Whether it was present there is a discussion we do not need to have.)

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #14 on: 31 January 2011, 15:46:55 »
The potential losses to the passengers are worth more in the way of risk as well, as is stranding a larger portion of the enemy's force.
The problem with that analogy is simple: for every Maxim II you go chasing, that's one, two, three, or more Maxim IIs you aren't chasing.  Immobilizing a Trajan, a fairly easy task once you have flanked it (itself an easy task owing to the slow speed) will immobilize two platoons of battle armor.

A Trajan simply will not across a battlefield quickly enough to be of much use.  A Maxim II has a significantly good chance of at least getting to a useful place before being immobilized.  Tanks simply do not move very long on the battlefield.  You have to be willing to accept that to design a useful vehicle.  The Trajan's designers didn't.  Nor did they supply it with enough armor to be of great use once immobilized.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #15 on: 31 January 2011, 15:51:07 »
As opposed to spending the time (and taking the lumps) to go after two, four, six, or eight Trajans hauling the same number of troops?  Maxim IIs can't compel the enemy to go away and have issues dropping troops off due to the stacking rules.

Neither one is useless but they both have significant drawbacks.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #16 on: 31 January 2011, 16:17:28 »
As has been said, the Trajan will have a real problem deploying a large amount of infantry units because of its low speed and because of stacking rules.  The main use of infantry will be to cover it once its made immoble, which will be very shortly.  I wouldn't mind a point of something like Kanazuchi, which are them selves basicly immoble, on it, since they'll be trundeling onto the field at 3/5 and off it at walking speed, they they present a daunting, if largely static, target. 

Its not totaly useless.  If I had some force, and someone said here you go, take one of these on top of it, I'd take it and be glad to have it.  But if I had some force, and some one said take one of your own units out and take this in its place, I'd probably be at least a little hesitent unless I had something really disgusting to unload.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #17 on: 31 January 2011, 17:02:27 »
As opposed to spending the time (and taking the lumps) to go after two, four, six, or eight Trajans hauling the same number of troops?
I don't have to go after Trajans.  Their slow speed compels them to come after me.  A Maxim can take a route twice as long as a Trajan to get to its' objective and still have more maneuvering speed.  That's a lot more distance it can trade for time.  But the Trajan, if it wants any chance at getting close to drop off its' infantry, has to come straight for me.  I dictate the battlefield with the Trajan, whereas the Maxim dictates it when I'm fighting one of them.

Maxim IIs can't compel the enemy to go away
Neither can the Trajan.  Two MML-7s, a LAC-5, and an ER Medium is firepower that you'd expect to find on a vehicle a third the size.  Hell, that's firepower that a squad of Grenadiers or Hauberks can match.  Frankly, I'd take a squad of Hauberks versus the Trajan any day, they have much better long-range power and will be able to immobilized the tank in short order.

As IM said, the key is that it will have its' own infantry protecting it once it's immobilized.  However, what's the point?  You fill a vehicle with infantry so that when the vehicle is immobilized, the infantry can protect it.  That's very static thinking and an expensive way to position static defenses.

and have issues dropping troops off due to the stacking rules
You're right in that both of them will only be able to dismount two units a turn.  However, the Maxim II will be able to expend ten movement points before dismounting while the Trajan a mere three.  Should the Trajan take any motive damage and it drops to a mere one movement point, and that's assuming a flank.  In short, the Trajan's ability to dismount infantry requires it to be an almost stationary target before it's immobilized just to get rid of the infantry.  The Maxim suffers no such penalty and could even, potentially retain a +4 TMM while dismounting.  Furthermore, in subsequent turns, the Maxim will be able to deploy more infantry elsewhere while the Trajan, again owing to the slow speed, will be unable to put much distance between the first deployment hex and any new ones.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #18 on: 31 January 2011, 19:54:06 »
Bigger issue is the DIY - we really are supposed to stick things like that somewhere else these days.

GWA's DIY is not over the top. A basic "how to fix" is fine and doesn't drive us writers away. It's at the edge and serves as a good example of "no more than this".
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #19 on: 31 January 2011, 20:03:25 »
Okay, fair enough.  Didn't know where the line is.  I've been skittish about causing trouble for you guys in that regard.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #20 on: 01 February 2011, 04:30:15 »
Problem foot Infantry bays are 3 tons for 28/30 men, at 8 tons your only carrying 2 foot infantry or jump platoons, a single motorized platoon, or two BA squads (or four with BA weights and using PALs).

I was wondering about that, glad I wasn't the only one that noticed :)

The 8 tons for the Palmoni works out quite well for the WoB. With a platoon being 36 troopers, that's 3.6 tons per platoon (rounded up to 4). Since they're oversized, they're cut in half, with each subplatoon weighing in at 1.8, or 2 tons. So thankfully that works out as well.

Of course, now you have 4 subplatoons in a single Palmoni, and I'm not really sure that works. It can only unload a single subplatoon at once, which means 4 turns of unloading. I'm not sure if it could absorb that much firepower if it was approaching a fixed position (on the other hand, each turn you'd add a little bit more firepower, so it might worry someone).

The other thing of course is the lack of CASE. Not only is the ammo explosion going to destroy the vehicle, but possibly the infantry as well.

Probably the one "good" point is that the MMLs have 4 tons of ammo, which means you don't have to skimp that much if you feel the need for a ton or two of special ammo.

As for the picture...I dunno. It reminds me of something from the RIFTS Coalition.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #21 on: 01 February 2011, 07:15:23 »
Well, odd size bay could chock it up to being a former Blakist vehicle.  They had differient idea on how many people were suppose to be in per unit size.

I don't think this vehicle was suppose to be used frontline units, like the Word of Blake Militia. 

They were made to move around motorized infantry platoons Protectorate Militias, which were using according to Jihad Secrets, normal size/regular organization military units.

Its odd i guess.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #22 on: 01 February 2011, 08:31:18 »
I just figured the odd-sized bay was deliberate, to allow it to more easily carry jump troops or battle armor when available.
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Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #23 on: 01 February 2011, 08:36:58 »
I just figured the odd-sized bay was deliberate, to allow it to more easily carry jump troops or battle armor when available.

I think Weirdo's onto something here - two platoons of jump infantry would be a pretty solid load, especially with Mauser 1200s available to them.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #24 on: 01 February 2011, 09:38:49 »
I see this as the canon alternative to all of the generally vulnerable BA carriers out there. How many infantry carriers can take an AC20 twice to any location, much less more than one location? Is it still vulnerable to massed fires? Of course. But anything is vulnerable to massed fires. An Atlas will go down if you hit it enough (you don't even have to penetrate, GoldenBBs and head hits will accumulate). The question is what is the cost/benefit of the enemy's concentration. If, once the motive systems of the tank are immobilized, then the BA is trapped inside, then that might be a good motive to do so, even at the expense of losing a vehicle or two to the massed counterfire (keeping in mind that the side with the Trajan gets to mass its fires too). If, OTOH, the Trajan gets to deliver its BA, well then we've got additional targets to soak that firepower up.... all the while taking a pounding from the massed fires of the Trajan's buddies.

Basically, the Trajan is a big target telling your opponent "shoot here first". If the opponent chooses not to shoot there first, then he takes BA fires in addition to the Trajan's fires as well as allowing the Trajan to spot with its C3S. If the opponent chooses to shoot there first, then, with that foreknowledge of what the enemy will/must do, you simply plan accordingly. Drop off the BA early, wade in, soak up damage, and try to drop one of their beasties before they drop the Trajan. 14 SRMs is nothing to sneer at either, they really don't want the Trajan getting up close and personal with them.

Having a target for the enemy's fires isn't always a bad thing. It may mean your Hammerhands gets an extra turn or two before its ammo gets hit.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #25 on: 01 February 2011, 15:41:26 »
This:

To me, the defining part of the Trajan's name is the word 'Assault'. It's an assault-weight design that can take assault-level firepower and keep coming(for a little while. No need to get cocky with it.). I'll be using it to support assault tanks by carrying assault suits.

To support assault tanks or assault battlemechs. Having it operate without MBT or battlemech support is folly. Its role is protect infantry in high-firepower environments, for example when storming a Castle Brian, where lighter and faster APCs becomes targets of opportunity for one-shotting.


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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #26 on: 01 February 2011, 17:00:56 »
The flip side of being a hardened fire magnet is that you have to be willing to live with the damage, and you have to be able to live with out the unit.  A Trajan suffers on both points.  That Hammerhands can take a lot of damage, lose a lot of weapons, even whole torsos, and still be fairly abulatory, able to fall back or advance with the unit as needed and desired.  A Trajan well tend to lose speed fairly quickly, depending on the weapons used on it, and defiatly a lot faster than a mech will, so it has trouble as a fire magnet from the stand point that after its magneted for a while, it loses a lot of its tactical usefulness.  An immoble Trajan retains its LRM ability, but can't use its more powerful SRM ability and is more limited with its LAC and ML, along with being unable to move its precious and powerful infantry around.  More over, the loss of a Hammerhands or other mech is tragic, but the pilot will likely survive and much or all of the mech may be salvagable.  The loss of a Trajan may entail the loss of as many as 80 infantry as well as the tank's own crew, to say nothing of the expensive fusion powered tank (though I guess life is cheap, mechs are not, right?).  For my money, I'd rather use an Awesome 8Q to draw fire, which being a lot more powerful it will tend to do anyway.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #27 on: 01 February 2011, 17:02:59 »
As for the picture...I dunno. It reminds me of something from the RIFTS Coalition.

Envision it as being a WWII era style recruitment poster.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #28 on: 01 February 2011, 18:26:45 »
Envision it as being a WWII era style recruitment poster.

... You know, that actually helps me hate it less. Thanks, Welshman!
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #29 on: 01 February 2011, 23:05:05 »
... You know, that actually helps me hate it less. Thanks, Welshman!

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #30 on: 02 February 2011, 01:15:36 »
Uncle Blake wants you!

Well, I do think Shadow Division paint schemes are rather dapper... but I meant more along the lines of finally justifying a RAF company or two once some more info about their organization is released.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #31 on: 02 February 2011, 03:32:42 »
Couple of points GWA:

1.  regular MG range (ie 3 hexes) /is/ close in.

2.  Badly-written fluff aside, there's absolutely nothing odd about the bay size, it's the correct size to carry a squad of Assault-class BA. 

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #32 on: 02 February 2011, 05:01:06 »
The core problem is you should not have so many infantry in one vehicle-- that sort of transport is for a battle taxi that unloads the infantry well short of the combat zone. Actual combat vehicles should have smaller numbers of infantry and larger numbers of vehicles, to avoid losing all your eggs when one basket gets blown sky high.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #33 on: 02 February 2011, 05:57:54 »
But when looked at as a BA transport, it looks more attractive than as a regular PBI transport.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #34 on: 02 February 2011, 07:37:20 »
2.  Badly-written fluff aside, there's absolutely nothing odd about the bay size, it's the correct size to carry a squad of Assault-class BA. 

Just to note, that's only under the optional rule in TacOps (which, admittedly, I favor myself over the regular BA cargo footprint of 1 ton to a suit).

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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #35 on: 02 February 2011, 16:55:30 »
Just a note- Game Mechanics are a little strange when it comes to interior space. Sometimes you have to hand wave.

The Trajan was intended to carry assault/heavy infantry, so only 2 standard platoons max (converted to WoB formations).
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Re: Vehicle of the Week-Trajan Assault Infantry Fighting Vehicle
« Reply #36 on: 02 February 2011, 18:31:06 »
And when you compare 3/5/0 to 1/1/0 it looks more attractive. Especially when you consider the permissiveness of the environment. In order for a Maxim or Karnov to be more appropriate you have to be reasonably assured that it either 1. won't be the primary target (unlikely considering the bag of goodies they're carrying), or 2. they won't be hit. The only way to guarantee the latter is to deliver infantry on target before the enemy is in range (no mean feat if the map board size is proportional to the force). What happens if they are in range? Well a few rotor hits or skirt strikes later you either have your infantry spread across the countryside like jam on toast or they're in a box on the ground waiting for the turn of consolidated fires that will turn them into cinders.

Will the Trajan attract fire? Probably. Is it a more attractive target than a Karnov? Dunno, depends on how much you like seeing whirlybird birds take tumbles. But it provides some infantry fire support, can deliver two squads of BA to the field, and has enough armor to take the odd hit or two (compared to the Karnov which can't).