Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank  (Read 14383 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #30 on: 01 May 2017, 22:28:23 »
I wish it had gone into the books being 5t lighter . . . we could have used it while at 55t it feels like something to fill page space with the previously mentioned Po & Bulldog . . . IMO its superior to the Bulldog due to the weight cost of the LL and its lesser damage.

As far as the Jihad . . . I could see the Periphery March putting it into production or the Filtevelt Coalition since it fits with their Quikscell T-Bolt carriers & other vehicles.   For post-Jihad it simply becomes the question of if you want to put a SFE in with a Plasma Rifle or go LB-10X and the SRM gets replaced by a MML.  Of course for that to matter you have to make the armor be able to take more punishment over what it had before.

Looks are ok, though the person who was complaining about the driver's vision area . . . that are some modern tanks that have something close to that but the slope is not to that degree.  IMO it begs the question where the TC and gunner are positioned.

Anyone done a Marsden or Merkava company vs the Tiger?
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mutantsix

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #31 on: 02 May 2017, 20:47:29 »
Thanks to Tigershark for posting the Cbill cost.

I want to use a lance of these for a down on their luck merc unit (FS aligned). I looked at bulldogs but thought these would be more in character and we know how much FS love their autocannons. I also think they could have been the inspiration for the myrmidon to the point I'm using the models to represent the Tiger.

Even though the MUL has them extinct in late SW the fluff in the book says they were produced throughout the SW era so I'm thinking the MUL is waiting on an update.

Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #32 on: 03 May 2017, 06:39:44 »
The MUL doesn't have an availability listed in the Late Succession Wars.  That's different from "extinct", although it's possible by the last sub-era (which starts in 3020), it's still going to be marked that way or dwindling severely in numbers.  (Remember that the LosTech sub-era runs for 120 years, plenty of time for something once-widespread to go functionally extinct.)  The book's talking specifically about the height of the Succession Wars, too.  If you'd like the MUL Team to take a look at the final availability, post in the MUL thread in the Errata forum and we can dig into it further internally.

Of course, as I point out periodically, the MUL is a guideline and recommendation, not a straitjacket.  If you want your mercs to have rusty, beat up old Tigers, they've got rusty, beat up old Tigers.  One of the Wolf's Dragoons scenarios had a run in with a couple of Mackies centuries after everyone thought they were lost to history, for instance, and in the Succession Wars, the Mongoose is known to have individual examples in the hands of the Houses but they don't have access listed because it's one or two for each House.

For the record, Bulldogs are actually quite in character for an FS-aligned unit.  The Suns bought a number of them before the Succession Wars for the same reason a lot of people bought them: It was cheap.  They used a lot of replacement parts to jury-rig them, making it a logical enough unit to pass on to militias or mercs.  After the Fourth Succession War, the FS also stole a lot of them from Ares but that looks like it's after when you're planning to set things.

Nebfer

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #33 on: 15 May 2017, 12:21:15 »
Considering that the Bulldog in TRO 3039 is stated to have been built in the Hundreds of thousands sense it's introduction (in 2673), and that this was a some what lukewarm production run... (other tanks have 2 or 3x this rate).

As for how the FS get the bull dog? well they could be very old tanks (they predate the Succession wars be some 200ish years), built in between the succession wars, captured vehicles, shell companys, minor in house production (a few production runs here and their that only last a few years with various groups (I.e. not long enough to get a dedicated producer listed)) and so on.

As for the Tiger still around, it would not be impossible in some backwater to have a few running around, perhaps a world every so often builds a few on a whim to suit it's needs, perhaps their actually knock offs/ vehicles that have almost identical stats but are actually a different vehicle (I.e. like the Soviet era T-55 and the Chinese Type 59, basically the same vehicle but their are differences between them, but not enough to make to much of a difference when you granulize the details. sort of like one having a Rand PPC while the other has a Kreuss PPC).

I tend to view that the listed Manufactures are the major organizations, and that their are a good number of smaller less capable groups out their that are not listed (notably in shipyards, I view that their are a number of civilian ship yards that largely only build civilian use dropships, jumpships and small craft that are not listed in the TROs, and the ones that are listed are the primarily government and merc suppliers). Basically many of these smaller groups are largely their to supply a given world and perhaps their neighbors and generally do not work with the national government and so are typically not listed.   

So it would not be impossible to me that their could be some low level use of what is largely considered extinct or long out of production units, out in the back waters.

Edit: IIRC something along the lines of what Ive been saying is stated to have happened with the infiltrator I battle armor while it was out of production/ front line use a large number of private and secondary user groups scooped them up and stated using them and small industry's poped up supporting them.
« Last Edit: 15 May 2017, 12:24:29 by Nebfer »

TigerShark

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #34 on: 15 May 2017, 14:23:14 »
I really see units like the Tiger T-12 and Merkava Mk. VII as "proxy" units for all of the generic tanks which are in production during each era. It may not be exactly titled as per a TRO entry, but there ARE other vehicles (and even 'Mechs) which exist on the battlefield that are too insignificant to bother cataloguing. The forwards in the Vehicles section of TRO:3039 state this, I believe (might have been 3026? I don't have them in front of me). So saying they're "available" doesn't necessarily mean you need to pin down an exact plant. Most tanks made were very similar, like the Weapon and Missile Carriers. The 'stand-outs' were a 'first of their kind' deal, not representing a totally unique design in-and-of-itself.

In other words, "use the Tiger T-12 in just about any era or configuration". You're probably close to something else that was being made.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #35 on: 19 May 2017, 09:27:55 »
The case for replacing the Estevez is significantly more compelling than you're making it out to be because you're forgetting that we're comparing a combat vehicle to a TR C support vehicle.  The underlying technology was no longer compatible with military-grade hardware, it was far heavier than it needed to be to deliver the expected performance, the fire control needed to be modernized, and the communications were the equivalent of a CB radio.  The armor should be even worse than it is since it predates the point where BAR 8 was introduced in the first place by over a century.

The question, therefore, isn't whether putting a new gun on would solve the Estevez's problems.  It wouldn't and it wouldn't have made more sense, either, so the AFFS was looking at the need to make a new tank from the ground up either way.

  Actually the Estevez has been erratad to BAR 7 armor.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #36 on: 19 May 2017, 13:12:44 »
I have to ask: Why exactly are you correcting a post that was made six years ago? ???
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #37 on: 19 May 2017, 14:40:45 »
I have to ask: Why exactly are you correcting a post that was made six years ago? ???

  I didn't, I noticed the second to top forum thread in the Fan Articles section was on an Age of War tank.  Having a special love for Age of War Tanks I read through the thread and gave my input. 

  I don't normally note the time stamp of each post so I had no idea the post was six years old until you told me ::)
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Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: T-12 Tiger Medium Tank
« Reply #38 on: 21 May 2017, 10:54:01 »
Folks, speaking from experience, there is a limit to the authors' desire to be nitpicked to death.  Having people "trying to be helpful" like this doesn't do a lot for your enthusiasm, especially when it feels like they're trying to call you on the carpet publicly years later.  Be polite, don't come off like you're being snippy, and don't hound us.  Maybe think about sending a PM.  We're people doing this on our time to share our love of the game, so quit pouring cold water on our enjoyment.

Personally, I find this particular correction even more irritating because not only is the post six years old (and entirely correct when it was written), my grumbling about the Estevez throwing a monkey wrench into the TacOps BAR dates was what reminded jymset to post the errata in question.

 

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