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BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: Xotl on 05 February 2011, 15:39:34

Title: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 05 February 2011, 15:39:34
EDIT 11 Jan 2015: Corrected faction tables.  See reply 386 on p. 13 for details.

Please check back on occasion for updates; I'll keep the thread title updated with the date of the last changes.

CONTENTS:
 - random mech and vehicle assignment tables by faction for 3028, 3039, and 3050
 - a rarity guide
 - Quirk lists for mechs and vehicles

These faction tables date to 3028 (on the eve of the 4th Succession War), to 3039 (at the opening of the War of 3039), and to 3050 (Clan and House tables covering the initial invasion through to Tukayyid).  ALL machines appropriate to the eras and that have been published in an official Battletech product are here, along with every single published variant.  Also included are tables providing Quirks (as found in Strategic Operations).

At this time they only cover from the late 3rd/early 4th Succession Wars to 3050 (though 3057 tables are coming).  I'd like to eventually cover even later eras, but each is exponentially harder than the last (and so slower in arriving) due to a lack of info on exactly how the new designs of an era replace older ones phased out, destroyed, or no longer in production, as well as there being less info on modern eras in general.  In addition, my work handling errata and with the MUL Team eats up most of my Battletech free time.

The tables all use 3D10 (aka D1000), and are ranked according to Battle Value v2, so a low roll gets you a low-BV model.  As such, rolling high won't necessarily get you the heaviest machine, but it should get you a better one.

I've also created an availability ranking system based on the fluff, so you can at last have an idea of not just what's available, but how common it is.  I rated each machine's availability on a ten-point scale.  The scale is only meant to represent how common that particular unit is within both its weight class and the force in question.  It is not meant to give an accurate picture of total numbers produced or in service in all factions: besides the fact that hard production numbers are almost never found, different weight classes have different deployment ratios.
 
If a machine is not listed with a faction it's not to say that that machine cannot be found there at all, but rather that there is no significant amount and no native supply.  Ultimately in the chaos of war it's perfectly feasible to see at least one of any machine in the ranks of any faction, but these tables merely attempt to depict typical native deployments.  I felt otherwise you might as well just place every machine in every faction, which seems to me to be a rather dull and flavourless way to handle it.  See the pdf for a more detailed explanation on these sorts of issues.

Important Note: these tables make absolutely no attempt at balance!  The goal was fidelity to the in-universe background material, not creating balanced forces for use in pickup games.  So if you find one force keeps getting 75-ton death machines and the other is stuck with 60-ton crap, blame the fluff, not me.

If you're going to print it, know that it's in Landscape format (the sideways layout used in the Technical Readouts) rather than Portrait/Standard.

DOWNLOAD:
It's a 90-page PDF (2,468 KB) hosted here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yh0d5y4f0j3jkiv/3028-3050%20Random%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%209.1.pdf?dl=0


EXTRAS:
Note that thanks to the efforts of Netzilla and Battlemaster, these charts are now included in Megamek (look in (/data/rat/unofficial)


I am open to and would greatly appreciate feedback on anything: typos, missing elements, disagreements on who got what or how much of it, etc.  If you want to reuse any of this in another work, feel free to - I just ask that you provide a link back to this thread as credit.  If you find a use for this, please bump the thread.

Special thanks goes to BigDuke66, Cyttorak, Frabby, Matti, TJHairball, Netzilla, ralgith, Battlemaster, and nckestrel for help and fact-checking above and beyond the call of duty.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Xotl on 05 February 2011, 15:40:10
Reposted from the old forums by request.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: wolftech on 05 February 2011, 17:09:34
Hey men, really wonderful to see this thread back here  [notworthy]
I was hoping that this thread came back after the forum jihad.
Is it correct, that you're still working in further updates of this list?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Daryk on 05 February 2011, 17:10:36
Thank you kind sir!  I'll be sure to point people looking for RAT's here vice the archive now. O0
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Xotl on 05 February 2011, 18:29:59
Yes, version 8 is being slowly worked on, but it's an absolutely huge update.  Also, grad school and MUL work takes priority, and there's a lot of it.  I'll add a tentative changelog to this post later tonight.

EDIT:
Clan Second-Line
3050 Capellan A
3050 Draconis A
3050 FedSuns A
3050 Free Worlds A
3050 Lyran A
3050 ComStar

What I think I'll do, in order to actually get the next version out some time this century, is to stick to finishing off 3050 for v8, leaving the 3057 stuff for a later release.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: greywolf79 on 05 February 2011, 23:20:44
I am looking forward to the next version... Excellent work!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Runeslinger on 06 February 2011, 01:58:34
Incredibly useful!
 Thank you very much for all the time and effort~
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Cannon_Fodder on 06 February 2011, 04:40:37
Yes, version 8 is being slowly worked on, but it's an absolutely huge update.  Also, grad school and MUL work takes priority, and there's a lot of it.  I'll add a tentative changelog to this post later tonight.

EDIT:
Clan Second-Line
3050 Capellan A
3050 Draconis A
3050 FedSuns A
3050 Free Worlds A
3050 Lyran A
3050 ComStar

What I think I'll do, in order to actually get the next version out some time this century, is to stick to finishing off 3050 for v8, leaving the 3057 stuff for a later release.

WOOT 3050 coming  [rockon] Now I can use it in the games I play. The 3039 tables are great but no that helpful in 3050-58 games.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Xotl on 06 February 2011, 05:05:07
Well, bear in mind the 3050 tables are only for the top of the line elite units - for the most part, the 3039 tables still apply to the Inner Sphere in 3050.   Even the elite units will still be mostly 3039 machines.  Here's a unofficial list of House units that could have top-of-the-line tech in 3050:

Capellan Confederation:
Capellan Hussars: 1st Hussars (Red Lancers), 3rd Hussars (Blandford's Grenadiers)
Warrior Houses: House Dai Da Chi, Fujita, Hiritsu, Ijori, Kamata, Lu Sann, Ma Tsu-Kai
1st McCarron's Armored Cavalry
Death Commandos

Draconis Combine:
Otomo
Genyosha: 1st Genyosha, 2nd Genyosha
Sword of Light: 2nd Sword of Light, 7th Sword of Light
1st Proserpina Hussars
Ryuken: Ryuken-ni, Ryuken-san, Ryuken-yon, Ryuken-go, Ryuken-roku

Federated Suns:
1st Federated Suns Armored Cavalry
Avalon Hussars: 20th Avalon Hussars, 41st Avalon Hussars, 42nd Avalon Hussars
Crucis Lancers: 1st Crucis Lancers, 3rd Crucis Lancers, 7th Crucis Lancers
Davion Brigade of Guards: Assault Guards, Heavy Guards, Light Guards, 1st Davion Guards, 5th Davion Guards

Free Worlds League:
Free Worlds Legionnaires: 1st Legionnaires, 2nd Legionnaires, 5th Legionnaires
1st Free Worlds Guards, 2nd Free Worlds Guards
1st Marik Militia
Fusiliers of Oriente: Ducal Guard

Lyran Commonwealth:
Arcturan Guards: 17th Arcturan Guards, 19th Arcturan Guards
Lyran Guards: 6th Lyran Guards, 10th Lyran Guards, 26th Lyran Guards
Royal Guards: 1st Royal Guards, 2nd Royal Guards, 3rd Royal Guards
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: BigDuke66 on 13 February 2011, 04:17:55
Yea really good to see XOTL is still alive and kicking.  [rockon]

Of course this is the first thread I visit after this damned WOB attack, may the burn in hell!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Hersh67 on 13 February 2011, 11:26:30
Yea really good to see XOTL is still alive and kicking.  [rockon]

Of course this is the first thread I visit after this damned WOB attack, may they burn in hell!

We're working on it, one WoBbie at a time...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Trenchknife on 13 February 2011, 13:44:44
Excellent stuff!  Thanks for the work.  Once I get back home to my computer this will be one of my first stops to download.  :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Xotl on 13 February 2011, 15:33:41
I realized that if I was doing ComStar and Clan Second Line I'd need Star League, since they all draw on a similar pile of machines, so add Star League Regular 2750 and Star League Royal 2750 to the new charts to come.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Hersh67 on 13 February 2011, 18:18:05
I imagine it would be a lot easier on you if they stopped coming up with new mech designs...  Like that would ever happen. :D
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Daryk on 13 February 2011, 18:56:39
I realized that if I was doing ComStar and Clan Second Line I'd need Star League, since they all draw on a similar pile of machines, so add Star League Regular 2750 and Star League Royal 2750 to the new charts to come.
Are you petitioning for sainthood or something?  We are simply not worthy...  [notworthy]
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: BigDuke66 on 13 February 2011, 20:53:44
SL too?
YEA BABY YEA  [rockon]
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: St.George on 14 February 2011, 07:38:22
Thanks to your exellent work for the Bt comunity and look forward to your 58+ tables(if you so choice to do) and the SL you've mentioned.As for the Bastard Wobbies that hacked the site(yes,I siad bastard),,,you thought the Jihad was bad,,,wait till you have  a Texas class park 35 miles "above" your house(yes we know where you live)   >:(
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Fletch on 14 February 2011, 07:56:20
(yes we know where you live)   >:(

A trailer park?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Kovax on 14 February 2011, 09:54:39
The sheer scale and scope of these tables are impressive, and I can hardly imagine the hours that were put into it.  The only thing that I find "odd" is how little the "flavor" of the various Houses matches that of the random 'Mech assignment tables from the old Mechwarrior 2nd Edition book.  Of course, those were a much simplified 2D6 chart, but some of the differences are pretty drastic.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - wise fwom your gwave
Post by: Frabby on 14 February 2011, 10:22:56
The sheer scale and scope of these tables are impressive, and I can hardly imagine the hours that were put into it.
Indeed. Check out the links to the two old forum threads to catch a glimpse of the depth of discussion behind these tables, and just how much data was collated.

I think it is safe to say Xotl's tables are currently the best, most accurate and most up-to-date RATs/faction lists you can find for BattleTech.

The only thing that I find "odd" is how little the "flavor" of the various Houses matches that of the random 'Mech assignment tables from the old Mechwarrior 2nd Edition book.  Of course, those were a much simplified 2D6 chart, but some of the differences are pretty drastic.
It has been established that Random Allocation Tables (RATs) as presented in various BT publications are a rule/game mechanic more than an accurate depiction of canonical in-universe data. Thus, RATs are an "inferior" source compared to almost all other sources regarding 'Mech dissemination within the universe.
(This has repeatedly been said and confirmed by Herb on the old forum.)

The reasons are many. RATs are often written for a specific publication and apply to a rather narrow portion of a given military; in other cases, they are abstract guidelines for gameplay purposes where the actual lineup is known.
In cases where no other information is available, RATs may indicate the proliferation of a given 'Mech type, but they are overridden by virtually every other (official) publication.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 15 February 2011, 08:34:23
So, in between some work for another project I've finished my Star League stuff and wanted to run it by the collective wisdom of the forums.  Please note two important things:

1) these are set in 2750

2) if a Royal mech is missing, it was almost certainly constructed after 2750.  The coming-soon-I-swear MUL has all the dates, so if I left a Royal off, it's for a reason.

That having been said, I'm mostly looking for opinions on the Av numbers.  Also of interest is that there's next to nothing cool for Star League medium mechs.  Should I have included regular (non-fancy tech) mechs in royal units?  Did I miss anything non-royal?

EDIT: link removed, SL tables now incorporated in the main set of tables.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Neufeld on 15 February 2011, 12:36:20
I find it unlikely that the SPR-4F Spector with Null-Sig and Chameleon would be available in the regular army, and have as high as a 7 availability in the Royals.

EDIT: No Mackie variants?!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 15 February 2011, 15:32:02
Yeah, I was getting the Spector confused with another mech entirely.  Thanks.

As for the Mackie, I'll have to check its fluff again again, but Op Klondike says the SLDF had undergone a major overhaul at this time, so I tried to minimize obsolete equipment.

EDIT: yeah, the Mackie -9H should be there as a second-line unit, but at only a "few hundred" left that's less than the Crab and Flashman, so Av 1.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Frabby on 15 February 2011, 16:29:39
As for the Mackie, I'll have to check its fluff again again, but Op Klondike says the SLDF had undergone a major overhaul at this time, so I tried to minimize obsolete equipment.
I recall there was a fan speculation that the Mackie frames were refitted into Atlas 'Mechs. It's just a theory as far as I can tell, but it sure might explain why there are so few Mackies and how the Atlas could be "mass-produced".
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: BigDuke66 on 15 February 2011, 19:34:52
Is that pure speculation or is there at least some kind of hint from a source book?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: avon1985 on 15 February 2011, 20:03:56
So very very cool its hard to say whats the coolest part. [rockon]
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Frabby on 16 February 2011, 18:03:42
Is that pure speculation or is there at least some kind of hint from a source book?
As far as I recall, pure speculation, albeit one that I recall was viable from the context.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Orcmaul on 19 February 2011, 01:09:30
Hello

Just a possible bug report for v7.95 of the PDF.

On page 12 you have the Heavy & Assault list the breakdown for regular as 25%.  This results in a total of 105% for this row.  Looked it up in BF1 and it should be 20% regular.

Thank you for the great tables.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 19 February 2011, 02:54:52
Good catch - fixed for the next version.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: mikecj on 19 February 2011, 14:17:55
Awesome- thanks!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: truetanker on 25 February 2011, 13:30:51
One word...

 [rockon]

TT
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Makinus on 27 February 2011, 22:51:00
eagerly awaiting for clan 2nd line tables.... good work!

About the SL mech tables, some i think are missing (may be wrong, following fluff in sarna.net):


- Mercury (MCY-99)
- Lynx (LNX-9Q)
- Spartan (SPT-N2)
- Wolverine (WVR-7H)
- Phoenix Hawk (PXH-1b and PXH-1c)
- Shogun (SHG-2F)
- Thunder Hawk (TDK-7X)
- Rifleman II (RFL-3N-2)
- Battlemaster (BLR-1Gb)

Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 28 February 2011, 01:40:00
I don't have a copy of the MUL in front of me, but I'm pretty sure all those post-date 2750 (except the Mercury, but that one is specifically described as being only stationed on Earth and at Mitchell's factories: it shouldn't be deployed randomly).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: nckestrel on 28 February 2011, 06:59:33
eagerly awaiting for clan 2nd line tables.... good work!

About the SL mech tables, some i think are missing (may be wrong, following fluff in sarna.net):


- Mercury (MCY-99)
- Lynx (LNX-9Q)
- Spartan (SPT-N2)
- Wolverine (WVR-7H)
- Phoenix Hawk (PXH-1b and PXH-1c)
- Shogun (SHG-2F)
- Thunder Hawk (TDK-7X)
- Rifleman II (RFL-3N-2)
- Battlemaster (BLR-1Gb)

Rifleman II is 2720.  Lynx, Spartan, Wolverine II, Phoenix Hawk Specials, Shogun (2H, 2F is SW), Thunder Hawk and Battlemaster are 2760s.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Drufause on 28 February 2011, 17:31:53
Awesome thanks as always
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: TJHairball on 04 March 2011, 00:32:46
Xotl! Someone reminded me (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2350.0/all.html) that I had done some frequency analysis earlier by weapon / etc on your table.

Today it occurred to me that my intuition then - that your weight class assignments are a little too extreme, in particular with doubling assaults for Steiner and halving them for Marik - could be tested by checking through the fluff.

I went and ran the 3028 table frequencies through 24 constraints (mostly pulled from TRO 3039, so a few of these might be '39 vs '25 issues, but they don't really seem like those sorts of issues), weighted for the number of estimated BattleMech regiments operational in 3025 for each Great House (110-80-75-60-56), and came up with a short list of problems.

Trebuchet:
Your table gives a small edge to Steiner over Marik. This actually isn't a problem, since it's "perhaps" and the two are virtually equal.

“(Trebuchet) House Marik is perhaps the largest user of the Trebuchet”

Spider:
Here it seems that Davion has too high of a Spider availability, placing them second just behind the DC.

“(Spider) The FWL and DC sport the greatest numbers of them”

Scorpion
Here again Davion has too many of these - the most instead of the least.

“(Scorpion) The Federated Commonwealth possesses the lowest numbers of the design”

Wolverine
"Majority" is a very strong statement. Here, your table gives the FWLM 22% of them, rather short of a majority, slightly short of a plurality of the Great Houses (below Davion's total), and well below the combined total of Steiner and Davion.

“(Wolverine) The majority of Wolverines reside within the FWLM, followed by the FC”

Thunderbolt
Marik seems to be sitting in the back of the pack here with generic availability. Davion is also sitting fairly far forward thanks to their 110 regiments of BattleMechs.

“(Thunderbolt) Houses Steiner and Marik are the 'Mechs primary users”

Marik assaults:
Between the low force size (60 active regiments) and low assault 'mech multiplier, Marik actually has the least (or, in the case of the Longbow, second-least) of these out of every Great House, instead of the most or second most. Fixing this will probably entail using slightly closer ratios of assaults, e.g., 20-15-10 Steiner-everybody else-Marik, and also de-genericizing these slightly.

“(Goliath) Very few Goliaths remain, and most of those are split between the LC and FWL”
“(Battlemaster) The armies of Houses Steiner and Marik contain the most BattleMasters”
“(Longbow) In 3039, the FWL and Federated Commonwealth had most of the Longbows”
“(Awesome) As the FWL controls the only surviving manufacturing plants capable of producing the Awesomes, it also operates the largest amount of Awesomes of any of the Great Houses”
“(Stalker) The FWL and LC hold a small advantage in raw numbers (TRO 3039)”

I've attached a spreadsheet showing the precise numbers of these (and a series of other constraints I tested and found perfectly satisfied.)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: BigDuke66 on 04 March 2011, 02:31:55
Well if you go the way of "calculating" then I must say that you regiment numbers don't really fit.
3025(3028 differ only slight) numbers are:
Davion:
RCTs   35
Mech Reg.   13
Militia Reg.   24
Academy Reg.   5
Training Bat.   3

Mercenary Reg.   37(in 18 units)
Mercenary Bat.   8(in 4 units)

Kurita:
Mech Reg.   62
Academy Reg.   4

Mercenary Reg.   12
Mercenary Bat.   2

Liao:
Mech Reg.   27
Mech Bat.   32(17 units)
Warriorhouse Reg.(1 MB & 1 IB)   8(8 houses)
Deathcommandos   1 bat.

Mercenary Mech Reg.   8(2 units)
Mercenary Mech Bat.   10(8 units)
Mercenary Mech Comp.   1

Marik:
Mech Reg.   56
Mercenary Reg.   2
Mercenary Bat.   6
Mercenary Comp.   2

Steiner:
Mech Reg.   52
Mech Bat.   2

Mercenary Reg.   22(in 16 unit)
Mercenary Bat.   1(in 1 unit)
Mercenary Comp.   1(in 1 unit)


Bold are those that you can really count in and bold & cursive are the ones that surely drift off the usual composition of a frontline mech regiment in that house.
Furthermore the numbers of mechs inside a regiment vary from house to house and unit to unit as some use command lances some not, some have even command battalions(Davion RCTs).
So maybe you should try taking this into the calculation and see if there are still problems left.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: TJHairball on 04 March 2011, 03:08:32
Well if you go the way of "calculating" then I must say that you regiment numbers don't really fit.
The regiment numbers are from the first House books, which were the most convenient source on hand.  ;)

They do include mercenary forces. I would disagree with disqualifying militia regiments and warrior houses from the calculation of what constitutes a regular House force - these are a pretty hefty component! In the case of the Federated Suns, the March Militias are very significant commands and end up doing quite a bit of fighting.

If I include mercenary forces, the numbers pretty much pop to where they are in the original House books.
Quote
So maybe you should try taking this into the calculation and see if there are still problems left.
OK. So if I take RCTs as 4/3 of a standard regiment based on their use of an entire command battalion(!), include march militia 'mech regiments, include warrior houses, and don't include any of the training units or mercenaries, the Trebuchet problem - such as it is - quietly disappears.

If I take RCTs as 1 standard regiment, the Spider count for Davion slips a hair below Marik. (27:26 ratio, though.)

Everything else isn't affected enough by those changes to the calculation. Marik is still last place in the number of Awesomes, for example.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 04 March 2011, 03:11:52
Today it occurred to me that my intuition then - that your weight class assignments are a little too extreme, in particular with doubling assaults for Steiner and halving them for Marik - could be tested by checking through the fluff.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're assuming I altered the table results in some way based on the alterations I made to the Regiment Experience Distribution table.  They actually have nothing to do with each other (I just threw the table in because it was need and somewhat related to the subject in general).  Remember, Av has nothing to do with hard numbers - all the tables equal out to 1000, but whether each table represents 1,000 mechs or 10,000 I don't know and didn't try take into account - it's just a ratio thing.

Quote
I went and ran the 3028 table frequencies through 24 constraints (mostly pulled from TRO 3039, so a few of these might be '39 vs '25 issues, but they don't really seem like those sorts of issues), weighted for the number of estimated BattleMech regiments operational in 3025 for each Great House (110-80-75-60-56), and came up with a short list of problems.

Spider:
Here it seems that Davion has too high of a Spider availability, placing them second just behind the DC.

“(Spider) The FWL and DC sport the greatest numbers of them”

This is an outright error - I need to either add Av to DC and FWL or drop the others (probably the former)

Quote
Scorpion
Here again Davion has too many of these - the most instead of the least.

“(Scorpion) The Federated Commonwealth possesses the lowest numbers of the design”

I hoped my having Steiner scrap all theirs would be enough, but I need to drop Davion too and if I had thought about it for more than ten seconds I would have realized this.  Thanks.

Quote
Wolverine
"Majority" is a very strong statement. Here, your table gives the FWLM 22% of them, rather short of a majority, slightly short of a plurality of the Great Houses (below Davion's total), and well below the combined total of Steiner and Davion.

“(Wolverine) The majority of Wolverines reside within the FWLM, followed by the FC”

At the same time it says they're a common sight on the battlefield and I wasn't sure how to can easily reconcile the two statements without giving Marik so many that they wind up using them for lawn gnomes.  If I drop everyone else to a very low Av 7 or even Av 6 and up Marik to Av 10 it should work out, though that makes them 1-in-4 of Mariks' mediums and at the same time not really common anywhere else.

Quote
Thunderbolt
Marik seems to be sitting in the back of the pack here with generic availability. Davion is also sitting fairly far forward thanks to their 110 regiments of BattleMechs.

“(Thunderbolt) Houses Steiner and Marik are the 'Mechs primary users”

This could mean ratio rather than raw numbers, so I'd prefer to leave it as is.

Quote
Marik assaults:
Between the low force size (60 active regiments) and low assault 'mech multiplier, Marik actually has the least (or, in the case of the Longbow, second-least) of these out of every Great House, instead of the most or second most. Fixing this will probably entail using slightly closer ratios of assaults, e.g., 20-15-10 Steiner-everybody else-Marik, and also de-genericizing these slightly.

“(Goliath) Very few Goliaths remain, and most of those are split between the LC and FWL”
“(Battlemaster) The armies of Houses Steiner and Marik contain the most BattleMasters”
“(Longbow) In 3039, the FWL and Federated Commonwealth had most of the Longbows”
“(Awesome) As the FWL controls the only surviving manufacturing plants capable of producing the Awesomes, it also operates the largest amount of Awesomes of any of the Great Houses”
“(Stalker) The FWL and LC hold a small advantage in raw numbers (TRO 3039)”

I've attached a spreadsheet showing the precise numbers of these (and a series of other constraints I tested and found perfectly satisfied.)

I always meant to do what you have done one day, but never got around to it.  I greatly appreciate it, as it has caught errors I need to correct even if I wasn't interested in taking your approach.  That having been said, I'm not sure I can really fix the issue of Marik's assaults while sticking with the canon facts of notably fewer assaults (whatever that percentage actually is) and fewer regiments.

Also bear in mind that any time I adjust any number, the amounts for all the other mechs change as well (since whatever I do has to equal out to 1000).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Drufause on 04 March 2011, 05:58:40
I cant find the rating for the star-fighter I will use against the Kodan Armada.  Will I be replaced on earth by an android or clone.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: TJHairball on 04 March 2011, 07:12:59
At the same time it says they're a common sight on the battlefield and I wasn't sure how to can easily reconcile the two statements without giving Marik so many that they wind up using them for lawn gnomes.  If I drop everyone else to a very low Av 7 or even Av 6 and up Marik to Av 10 it should work out, though that makes them 1-in-4 of Mariks' mediums and at the same time not really common anywhere else.
Yeah. I don't think "majority" is really called for, even if that's what's said - it should probably read "plurality" instead. The only real issue then is the fact that the Mariks are supposed to have more than the entire FC, which otherwise has close to three times their military (and combine on the current table to about 1.5x their Wolverines, which is just a bit much).
Quote
I always meant to do what you have done one day, but never got around to it.  I greatly appreciate it, as it has caught errors I need to correct even if I wasn't interested in taking your approach.  That having been said, I'm not sure I can really fix the issue of Marik's assaults while sticking with the canon facts of notably fewer assaults (whataever that percentage actually is) and small regiment size.

Also bear in mind that any time I adjust any number, the amounts for all the other mechs go down (since whatever I do has to equal out to 1000).
Well, my suggestion is to try tightening the gap a little - noticeably fewer could be a ratio of 2:3 or 3:4 rather than 1:2.

If your table looked something like this:

   Kurita   Steiner   Marik   Davion   Liao
Light   35   20   25   25   25
Medium   30   30   40   40   40
Heavy   20   30   25   20   20
Assault   15   20   10   15   15

Or
   Kurita   Steiner   Marik   Davion   Liao
Light   40   20   30   30   30
Medium   30   30   40   40   40
Heavy   20   35   22.5   20   20
Assault   10   15    7.5   10   10

It would still have all the "right" relationships - Steiner has way more assaults than everybody else, Marik is measurably behind on assaults, et cetera. It does give the DCMS/AFFS slightly more Banshees than the LCAF - thinking about it, you might want to bump the BNC-3S up, especially for the 3039 table, if you do something like that, the Lyrans are supposedly putting them out through factories as of 3039.

I would then keep the current Avs for assaults in Marik - they're fine, most of them are the handful of assaults Marik is supposed to have. Just make blanket raises / drops on the Av of all the 'mechs outside of Marik.

First, raise the Av of all assault 'mechs outside Marik by a point, except for these five. Second:

BattleMaster - drop Av by one point for everything but Steiner and Marik (if you adjust the weight distributions) or everything but Marik (if you don't).
Goliath - drop Av by one  point for everything but Steiner and Marik (Av1 seems appropriate considering the 'mech is considered nearly extinct)
Stalker - drop Av by 1-2 points for everything but Marik. (Marik's behind by a factor of about 3:1 from, say, Davion.)
Awesome - drop Av by 1-2 points for everything but Marik. (Here the factor is a little more than 2:1, but Marik is supposed to have an unambiguous unique lead.)
Longbow - drop Av by one point for everything but Marik.

Just a big blanket application for what really is a big blanket effect - 2-3 points net change across the Av board in the assault weight class, plus a slight tweak to have Marik behind a little less in assaults. I don't know how you're fitting Av to 'mech population or I'd give you the boundaries, but that looks like the right ballpark for an adjustment. You can see where the numbers lie on the spreadsheet. There's a factor of about 4 between Davion and Marik by base frequency totals (110/60 x 2:1) and 5 between Steiner and Marik (75/60 x 4:1)

Except for the Goliath, those are all of your most common assault BattleMechs, so it would render the non-Marik assault population much more heterogeneous - but maybe the assault 'mech population should be pretty heterogeneous outside of Marik (where they only have the handful that they produce domestically) and Steiner (where they're manufacturing certain ones at breakneck speed.)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Daryk on 04 March 2011, 07:19:38
...giving Marik so many that they wind up using them for lawn gnomes...
I applaud this concept, and welcome our new Wolverine lawn gnome overlords...  ;D
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 04 March 2011, 14:37:10
I cant find the rating for the star-fighter I will use against the Kodan Armada.  Will I be replaced on earth by an android or clone.

Roll D10,000 on the Random Starfighter Assignment Table to determine the optimum machine that best helps defend the Star League.  Your replacement is determined by the Random Replacement Table, but be aware that all results of "Houseplant" are non-rerollable - you takes your chances.

Quote
Just a big blanket application for what really is a big blanket effect - 2-3 points net change across the Av board in the assault weight class, plus a slight tweak to have Marik behind a little less in assaults. I don't know how you're fitting Av to 'mech population or I'd give you the boundaries, but that looks like the right ballpark for an adjustment. You can see where the numbers lie on the spreadsheet.

I'm worried that the way the tables are generated would throw off some of your calculations, namely the compression/expansion that occurs due to the need for everything to equal 1000 (for example, the medium tables undergo extremely heavy compression since there's so many different units, meaning that any adjustment there has less effect.  The assault table has the exact opposite problem).

If you send me a PM with your email address I can send you my base calculation files that show the real numbers I use to arrive at the table percentages.  It would make a lot more sense for you to analyze those rather than trying to work off of the modified end-product.  These would also include the first batch of corrections I made from last night (Spiders and Scorpion), some Wolverine adjustments, as well as any other changes I've made since 7.95 while preparing for the next release.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Cybertec on 08 March 2011, 19:12:02
Please, keep up the good work!
It's good to know that there are still Battletech players out there that care!
I enjoy the spreadsheets and they make my unit selection (by faction) easy.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: eternal on 31 March 2011, 01:03:07
Bumping this great thread. :)

I also saw that Xotl posted his Star League tables over in Makinus' Against the Bot Megamek campaign thread.  I hope he doesn't mind me crossposting that link here.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/357573/3028-3050%20Faction%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%208.0%20-%20Star%20League.pdf

Thanks for all the great work.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: lexington476 on 31 March 2011, 14:45:54
I also saw that Xotl posted his Star League tables over in Makinus' Against the Bot Megamek campaign thread.  I hope he doesn't mind me crossposting that link here.

Downloaded, Xotl is cool [notworthy]  [rockon].
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 31 March 2011, 15:20:00
So, I've got a little research question I'd like to ask of the readers of this thread.  Can anyone find accurate regiment totals for 3039, either in one place or pieced together from different sources?

We have canon totals for 3025 (the House books) and 3050 (20 Year Update).  I don't think I have anything on 3039 per se, and could use it to help revise the 3039 tables in the same way I've recently finished with the 3028 tables.

EDIT: It looks like War of 3039 gives us a total of 94 regiments for the Combine, and I think we can trust that total, seeing as they would have held nothing back.  The same can't be said of the totals given there for FedCom forces, as there would have been plenty of regiments on the Marik and Liao borders that didn't participate in the invasion and so weren't listed in the FedCom regiment totals given in War of 3039.

Brush Wars tells us the CapCon was reduced to 41 battalions (12 2/3 regiments).  Then they fought the Andurien/Canopian Invasion.  20 Year Update says their 4 remaining factories were shut down after the 4th War, and were not all operational until 3036 (meaning that some had come back on line before that).  By 3050 they're back up to 30 regiments.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: lexington476 on 31 March 2011, 15:48:36
I think Historical War of 3039 is the best we are going to get without some new product.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: BigDuke66 on 31 March 2011, 18:28:56
Don't overlook the text before the deployment table, it states:
"All of the BattleMech units fielded by the AFFS, LCAF and DCMS—including mercenary units— appear on this table; of units belonging to the CCAF and FWLM, only those that took part in military actions during the War of 3039 (whether against each other or another nation) are listed."
So the list can also be used for DCMS, LCAF & AFFS.

Here are my numbers(based on "Historicals: War of 39"):
Steiner:
29 RCTs
29 Mech Reg.(of those notably are the 5 Tikonov Republican Guard regiments)
2 Mech Bat.
6 Militia Reg.
6 Training Bat.
2 Training Grp.(No clue what size they are but I guess smaller that a battalion maybe even a company )


Davion:
44 RCTs(of those notably are the 6 FedCom RCTs)
11 Mech Reg.
24 Militia Reg.
5 Academy Reg.
10 Training Bat.


Kurita:
90 Mech Reg.(I guess the House >Guard is a regiment too)
4 Academy Reg.


I now take a look into the CCAF & FWLM.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 01 April 2011, 12:36:42
Using those War of 3039 tables, and assuming each RCT has 1 regiment of mechs, I count 84 Davion regiments, which seems off, since in 3025 they had 90.  I may have to cross-reference with the 3025 tables and see if any regiments are missing.

I get about 67 Steiner regiments, as opposed to their 3025 total of 54.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: BigDuke66 on 01 April 2011, 14:40:42
3028 Davion had:
36 RCTs
12 Mech Reg.
24 Militia Reg.
5 Academy Reg.
4 Training Bat.
So they gained about 9 = 7+2(6 Training Battalions) Mech regiments.


3028 Steiner had:
52 Mech Reg.
2 Mech Bat.
They gained a bit more than +14 = 6+6(Militia reg.)+2(6 Training Bat.) Mech regiments and those 2 Training Grp..
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 01 April 2011, 15:31:42
I see the problem - I assumed Davion had 90 Regiments in 3028 (I'm not sure why), rather than the 78 you've totaled up.

I'm counting for Davion in 3039:

11 Line Regiments
44 RCTs
24 Militia Regiments
15 Training/Cadre Battalions (5 Regiments)
TOTAL: 84 Regiments

And you posted this for Davion 3028:

36 RCTs
12 Mech Reg.
24 Militia Reg.
5 Academy Reg.
4 Training Bat.
TOTAL: 78 Regiments

So we have a gain of 6 regiments.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: BigDuke66 on 01 April 2011, 16:12:49
Check the training units more detailed, these are 5 Academy Regiments(full regiments not Battalions, 3 from NAIS and 2 from Albion Military Academy) and 10 Training Battalions = 8,33 Regiments for 3039, bringing you to a total of 87,33 Regiments for Davion in 3039 compared to 78,33 in 3028 = a gain of 9 regiments.

Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 01 April 2011, 16:46:22
Ah, I follow now.

Okay, Liao:

Brush Wars tells us the CapCon was reduced by the 4th War to 41 battalions - I'm assuming this includes mercenaries.  Then they fought the Andurien/Canopian Invasion 11 months later.

Going through Brush Wars, I'm assuming it lists every CapCon unit.  They list 35 House battalions and 16 Mercenary battalions (51 total), so they've managed to add 10 battalions in 11 months - a pretty impressive rebuild (these would presumably not all be new, but plenty of trashed units rebuilt, but it's still impressive all the same).

That just leaves Marik.  Duke: could you tell me if the Brush Wars list for Marik is a whole list (all Marik units) or just a partial one?  The Defenders of Andurien would be removed from the Marik balance, obviously.  Thanks for your help on this.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: BigDuke66 on 01 April 2011, 18:40:39
I while ago I went thru both issues of the 4th SW sourcebooks and my results are these:

Liao House units(including Warrior Houses) surviving the 4th SW:
33 Battalions
2,5 Companies

Well the info about 41 bat. surviving is a bit unclear and is simply taken from the 4th SW sourcebooks, 41 can at best mean all mechs summed up to the regular structure of 36 mechs per battalion because when I take the mercs into the calculation I end up with 53 Bat. + 5,5 Co. surviving now assuming every unit is around 75% of their TOE we get a bit more than 41 bat. effective strength.

Brush Wars is not listing the complete CCAF:
"...only those units belonging to the CCAF, MAF, and other external powers that took part in military actions (whether against each other or another nation involved in the Andurien Crisis) are listed"
Same counts for Wo39 and the 4th SW sourcebooks, so you end up with only the list in the "Liao Housebook" as being complete.

Only TPTB knows what effective strength Liao had in 3039 because we can't be sure if these 41 effective strength are correct, we don't know how much they recovered between 4th SW & the Andurien war and we don't know how much they recovered after the Andurien war.


Marik 3039 numbers are(from the Brush Wars entry for 3039):
50 Mech Regiments(Loyal FWL)
5 Mech Regiments(Andurien)
But those are also in various states of TOE strength, some on a low level because of the Andurien war, others full because they didn't see any action and others lack info because they don't have an entry for 3039 so you don't know if they recovered their losses that occurred in recent years.
And yes the list for Marik/Andurien in Brush Wars is complete.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Frabby on 02 April 2011, 08:23:44
I'm very very sceptical regarding these numbers - they need to be taken with a mountain of salt.
For starters, they're unreliable in-universe sources. Remember that we're dealing with in-charakter reports which by nature are prone to the usual dose of error, guesswork, bias, propaganda. Second, people aren't counting 'Mechs, they are counting military formations. Which says nothing at all about their actual strength. It is conceivable that all militaries actively seek to curtail their actual strength so you would have to add a sizeable "safety chunk" to any count.

OOC, every six months or so there is a new variation of the "How many 'Mechs are there in the BT universe" thread. And it quickly boils down to the fact that the military strength of the Houses as presented in the House Books or virtually any other publication falls short dramatically. There's obviously a gazillion 'Mechs in local militia forces, in unregistered (or even registered) private ownership, in various stages of disassembly and readiness, in transit, or otherwise unaccounted for. It can reasonably be argued that the listings omit pirate groups and small mercenary commands ("small" apparently meanging anything below roughly battalion size - i.e. something in the area of 98% of all merc 'Mech units which are typically portrayed as lance- to company sized).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 02 April 2011, 12:21:10
Some fair points, but I'd add some caveats to your caveats:

Quote
For starters, they're unreliable in-universe sources. Remember that we're dealing with in-charakter reports which by nature are prone to the usual dose of error, guesswork, bias, propaganda.

This can be true, but rarely is a sourcebook written with in-universe bias as a general intent, like the various Jihad books are; more often this reasoning is used as a way to more gracefully ease in a retcon.  More specifically, a report on the military strengths of a House from thirty years ago is hardly top secret stuff worth obfuscating.

Quote
Second, people aren't counting 'Mechs, they are counting military formations. Which says nothing at all about their actual strength. It is conceivable that all militaries actively seek to curtail their actual strength so you would have to add a sizeable "safety chunk" to any count.

This is true, though more likely they're understrength, since there are never enough mechs.  Still, since I'm using deployment rosters across multiple eras, I'd rather just assume they're at full strength in all cases - it will be in error, but at least it will be a consistent error.

Quote
OOC, every six months or so there is a new variation of the "How many 'Mechs are there in the BT universe" thread. And it quickly boils down to the fact that the military strength of the Houses as presented in the House Books or virtually any other publication falls short dramatically. There's obviously a gazillion 'Mechs in local militia forces, in unregistered (or even registered) private ownership, in various stages of disassembly and readiness, in transit, or otherwise unaccounted for. It can reasonably be argued that the listings omit pirate groups and small mercenary commands ("small" apparently meanging anything below roughly battalion size - i.e. something in the area of 98% of all merc 'Mech units which are typically portrayed as lance- to company sized).

I'm not trying to count mercenaries, determine how mechs there are in the Inner Sphere, or deal with any of the thornier issues of FASAnomics.  All I'm trying to do is look at the House forces as they are consistently presented in canon and set a baseline.  I'm aware of the potential flaws in this baseline, but it's better than the approach I had before, which was largely WAG across the board.  I'd rather have some canon standing, no matter how tenuous, than none at all.  For instance, the analysis I ran on the 3028 tables has, thanks to the help of TJHairball, caused me to make extensive revisions.  Now I can actually say that if you were to roll on the tables you will get a result that lines up with many of the statements in TR3039 - Marik will have the most Awesomes, will have the least assault mechs overall, Davion will have the most Mongooses, etc.  This is better than nothing.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 02 April 2011, 13:11:33
I while ago I went thru both issues of the 4th SW sourcebooks and my results are these:

Liao House units(including Warrior Houses) surviving the 4th SW:
33 Battalions
2,5 Companies

Well, I think the best way to handle it then would be to figure out which Capellan units are on your list of 4th War survivors that aren't on the Brush Wars deployment charts.  Add the missing units to the Brush Wars charts and you should have a complete Capellan roster.  Do you have a roster of exactly who survived?

EDIT: We have 56 Marik regiments in 3025.  50 Marik regiments plus 5 Defenders of Andurien regiments in Brush Wars means one Marik regiment disappeared somewhere...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Daryk on 02 April 2011, 13:27:12
...
More specifically, a report on the military strengths of a House from thirty years ago is hardly top secret stuff worth obfuscating.
...
Just a side point, but never underestimate a government's ability to obfuscate information long past any operational impact.  Just because it's no longer worth classification doesn't make it declassified.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 02 April 2011, 13:46:47
Oh I know - I'm a military historian. :)  WWII stuff on Ultra and Magic wasn't fully declassified until the late 70s, for instance.  It's just that it's an ultimately self-defeating path to take when dealing with a game.  I'm willing to accept at any time that the writers can and will declare something as deception/propaganda if they feel the need to, but until then, I'm accepting it as factual unless I have a reason otherwise.  The only other path available is to use nothing, because it all could be fake.

It also helps that we have no in-universe precedent for false deployment tables for the Houses, let alone decades-old ones.  Hidden units, yes, and errata in existing rosters, but not known units falsified on a roster.  We're talking about units that have been around mostly for centuries, with proud, well-known pedigrees.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: BigDuke66 on 02 April 2011, 14:06:21
@Xotl
Well the Marik Guard is missing in the Brush Wars table, that is in line with the Lyrans conquering Callison in the 4thSW that the Marik Guard defended, later the FM mentions the unit was "decimated" but as it is not further mentioned in any sourcebook we can assume they were either destroyed or disbanded, maybe their remnants formed the core of the 4th Free World Guards that was formed shortly after the 4th SW but that unit was destroyed in the Andurien Wars so no real info about them too.
I make a list of the Liao units later.

@Frabby
I go in line with the assumption that there is more combat power then the simple listing of all frontline mech units shows us but I guess it is similar to Germany in 2WW, look at there frontline Panzer units they are simply the tip of the iceberg, all the infantry, artillery, support, etc. units form the base for this tip, RCTs are the best example for it. But to assume we have  "gazillion 'Mechs in local militia forces" is ridiculous, sure we have some militia mechs(the Mechs from Garlys Command are a good example) but they surely don't outnumber the frontline units and there quality will in most cases also be on the low end, again just like some Panzer units on the west front using crappy old french tanks.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: BigDuke66 on 02 April 2011, 23:01:54
Liao Mech units(Surviving 4th SW updated with Brush Wars entries)
Capellan Hussars:
-Red Lancers (3 bat.)
-Blandford's Grenadiers (3 bat.)

Chesterton Reserves:
-Sung's Cuirassiers (2 bat.)
-Kingston's Legionnaires (2 bat.)

Liao Reserves:
-Trimaldi's Secutors (1 bat.)

Confederation Reserve Cavalry:
-2nd Confederation Reserve Cavalry (2 bat.)
-3rd Confederation Reserve Cavalry (2 bat.)
-4th Confederation Reserve Cavalry (1 bat.)
-5th Confederation Reserve Cavalry (2 bat.)

Capellan Reserves:
-Stapleton's Grenadiers (3 bat.)

Tikonov Reserves:
-Kincade's Rangers (2 bat.)

Warrior Houses:
-House Imarra (2 bat.)
-House Kamata (2 bat.)
-House Daidachi (2 bat.)
-House Matsukai (2 bat.)
-House Hiritsu (1 bat.)
-House LuSann (1 bat.)
-House Fujita (1 bat.)
-House Ijori (1 bat.)

Sian Reserves:
-Kamakura's Hussars (2 bat.)
-Ishara's Grenadiers (2 bat.)

Independent Command:
-Preston's Lancers (2 Bat. + 1 Co.)
-Death Commando (1 Bat.)

That brings us to 42 Bat. + 1 Co.
Comparing my list with the Brush Wars entries showed that:
-1 unit shrank(Sung's Cuirassiers from 3 to 2 bat.)
-4 doubled(Houses Imarra, Kamata, Daidachi & Matsukai got an additional mech battalion)
-5(6)were reformed(Death Commando, Houses Hiritsu, LuSann, Fujita & Ijori reformed with 1 mech battalion, the sixth unit was the Prefectorate Guard(2 or 3 bat. BW unclear) but it was smashed in the Andurien Wars and disbanded with the leftovers filling up other units)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 09 April 2011, 02:52:37
Thanks for the invaluable help as always, BigDuke.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Makinus on 09 April 2011, 07:51:43
what is the proportion of regular/royal regiments in the Star League? Currently i´m rolling a 1d6 and if the result is 6 it is a royal regiment...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - Against Xur & The Kodan Armada
Post by: Xotl on 09 April 2011, 13:17:34
Taking only mech regiments into account (and assuming a division was 9 regiments), Royal regiments were about 16% of the total, so 1 in 6 works just fine.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.0
Post by: Xotl on 19 May 2011, 20:22:44
Almost a year since the last update.  Here's v8.0:

-   Added the new units from RS 3039 Unabridged (Cyclops CP-10-HQ; Hermes, Guillotine, Highlander, Sentinel, Wolfhound variants; Pike and Brutus variants)
-   Added Taurian Commandos
-   Added very small amounts of Catapult -C1s to Davion, Marik, and Steiner, as we know they were deployed all over but there's no indication that they were extinct everywhere else
-   Added more 3039 Kuritan Catapults - they restart production in 3033 on the K2 variant
-   Added some Riflemen to the Kurita A* - I figure it's too common a mech to exclude entirely
-   Added MON-68 Mongoose (the one with the large laser) to the Kuritan A* charts, now that the naming issue has been settled
-   Added TR 3085 Supplemental Prowler tank to all factions at Av 4
-   Added Quirks for TR 3085 Supplemental units and a few others
-   Removed Kurita 3039 A* CRB-27 Crab - there's no evidence they had any
-   Removed all Chameleon -7Vs: the -7V is now the 3058-ish combat model
-   Fixed BV order errors with Flea -4, Wasp -1K, Raven -1X, Kintaro -20, Jagermech -A, Rifleman -4D, Valkyrie -QF, Steiner Locust -1E and Urbanmech -60
-   Fixed BV order error with Liao vehicles that had the Brutus and its variants far too low on the tables
-   Fixed numerous Faction List Av errors, and automated the process of making the Av charts so there won't be any more
-   Fixed math error on 3028 Regiment Experience Distribution Table (thanks Orcmaul)
-   Eliminated the Variant Availability (VA) system and incorporated variants into the Av system, so that one set of numbers from 1-10 tracks all unit types (see below for more detail).
-   Some interesting statistical analysis has resulted in wholesale Av changes across the board.  Huge thanks to TJHairball for providing the framework and Excel data needed to conduct it.  In short, the Av amounts are now tied much more closely to actual numbers of mechs in service in the Inner Sphere whenever hard production numbers or unequivocal amount statements (i.e. "Marik fields the most of these mechs") are actually available.  This involved rebalancing the regiment weight distribution percentages from 3028 and tying the Av amounts into that.  Note that mercenary and Periphery amounts fall outside this.  Basically, every table has changed.  See below for more detail.
-   Lots of little format changes
-   And of course, the new charts:

Star League Regular Army 2750
Star League Royal 2750


I originally went with a separate variant availability system because when I started with just TR 3039 there was only one base model per mech, with all other versions of that mech being variants of that base design, and I figured being able to know at a glance if you were looking at a variant might be helpful.  However, now that I'm getting into later Technical Readouts we'll be encountering multiple "base" models (such as multiple Warhammers, unique to different Houses, each with their own variants), making it a pain to keep two systems that separate base models and variants.  Besides, the VA system didn't do anything the original 1-10 system didn't already do.


SOooo, a lot of little fixes.  Now that I'm errata coordinator, I have even less time to work on this project.  I wanted to get this out at least, as it took forever to overhaul the entire thing, which is what this release pretty much boils down to.  Every single House table has been redone, using the formulas and work I described a few post up.  I can now take something like the following line on the Champion from TR3039:

"House Liao controls most of them, but that edge is only one or two machines over the next prosperous House on the list, House Steiner."

and actually make it literally occur.

Whereas before my tables were isolated things, now they take into account the number of House regiments in the entire Inner Sphere, and can be compared against each other.  Marik is supposed to have the most Trebuchets and Stalkers - now they do, even when compared to Davion's higher regiment totals or Steiner's higher assault mech percentage.  Same with Spiders and Trebuchets.  Davion has the most Mongooses.  Liao and Steiner have the most Strikers, etc.  Any canon reference to "X state has the most/least of these" I've now implemented and, if you are crazy enough to roll up every regiment for every House using these tables, on average that will be true.  It's still not perfect, and it's still not canon, but it's much better than it was.

I would have been done the new 3050 and later tables by now, but I needed to redo the earlier work with this new method before moving on to use it on later stuff (as the previous tables always serve as the base for the next set).  I'm finished revising the old stuff, and am now moving on to the later stuff.

Cheers.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.0
Post by: doulos05 on 19 May 2011, 20:55:33
1. Tagged
2. I didn't see the link to the 8.0 release, can you post that?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.0
Post by: BigDuke66 on 19 May 2011, 20:58:24
HEY great work, big thanks!!!


@doulos05
Check first post in this thread.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.0
Post by: greywolf79 on 19 May 2011, 21:20:39
Awesome work! I just got the 8.0. Cannot wait to see the excellent work you have done to upgrade it (I know it is great because your work is always great).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.0
Post by: BigDuke66 on 19 May 2011, 22:39:54
@XOTL
Error in Davion 39 table, something doesn't seem to fit:
580   586   7   GOL-1H Goliath [80]
587   593   7   AWS-8R Awesome [80]
587   586   0   STC-2C Striker [80]
623   629   7   AWS-8V Awesome [80]
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.01
Post by: Xotl on 19 May 2011, 22:50:37
Doh: fixed and reupped.  Thanks again.

EDIT: crap, it's not inserting bookmarks.  I'll have to fix that and reup yet again. Look for 8.02.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.01
Post by: Rim Worlder on 20 May 2011, 01:55:59
in the Quirks by Name section p72

Karhu <see notes pg. 83>


there is no p83    ::)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.01
Post by: Xotl on 20 May 2011, 02:13:12
Hmmm, all the page references are supposed to auto-update.  I'll check it out - thanks.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.01
Post by: Rim Worlder on 20 May 2011, 02:18:46
also in Quirks, under command mech "Trebaruna" is mentioned several times.  I don't recognise this mech, where is it from ?  TRO 3085 possibly ?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 19 May v8.01
Post by: M-Rex on 20 May 2011, 02:29:13
Tagged...and thank you.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: Xotl on 20 May 2011, 02:39:44
Updated with Karhu page number correction (thanks Rim Worlder), pdf bookmarks, and compatibility upgrades so that it can be read by any version of Acrobat back to v5.

And yes, the Trebaruna is a TR3085 design (a 95 ton quad).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 20 May 2011, 04:12:19
for all the work you do, I can only say thank you.  This is tied with MadCap's OR67 for Best Fan-made Product Ever.

Well, outside of the four foot tall Mad Cat cat bed.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: BrokenMnemonic on 20 May 2011, 05:18:56
I just wanted to say thank you for these tables - I'm using them with an Against the Bot campaign, and they're really scratching an intellectual itch when it comes to fighting what feels like faction-specific forces. I only wish I'd had these back when I was running my first mercenary 'Mech campaign 20 or so years ago!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: BigDuke66 on 20 May 2011, 05:24:16
Not sure what you changed but I preferred the way 8.00 because I could easily copy the tables out and every row filled a row in excel, the way it is now I get the numbers in one field and the corresponding text in the field below, not sure if this comes from th backward compatibility(I don't think anyone uses such old readers so no real need for it) or if you changed something else.
I also noted that you used a different tool for creating it, maybe that's the problem.

Besides that I got another one  ;D
Check tables FRR Mechs tables for 3039
911   918   8   STK-3H Stalker [85]
944   951   8   BNC-3S Banshee [95]
There seems to be missing something.

And another small one, just to get the layout uniform, on the SL regular list 3 zeros are missing:
X01-X05 CP-10-HQ Cyclops [90]
X06-010 VTR-9A Victor [80]
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: truetanker on 20 May 2011, 10:25:27
Problem : FACTION ASSIGNMENT & RARITY TABLES -> Availability Changes: 3028-3039, pg. 58

Most have either a + or -, but I notice some don't have this before the number... I can mostly read them, but for a product like this and for someone new, it can be a bit randomish. But all in all, keep up the good job.

Are you planning to make an Aerospace version as well, and a Post-Jihad / Dark- Age Supplement?

TT O0
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: Xotl on 20 May 2011, 11:34:55
Not sure what you changed but I preferred the way 8.00 because I could easily copy the tables out and every row filled a row in excel, the way it is now I get the numbers in one field and the corresponding text in the field below, not sure if this comes from th backward compatibility(I don't think anyone uses such old readers so no real need for it) or if you changed something else.
I also noted that you used a different tool for creating it, maybe that's the problem.

Strange: I always used those compatibility settings in past releases, and had merely forgot to turn them on for the original 8.0 release.  I did switch to a newer version of Acrobat, so I'm imagining something has changed with the settings in between versions.  I'll change stuff for 8.03 and you can let me know if that helps.

Also, thanks for catching the typos - they've been fixed.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: Xotl on 20 May 2011, 11:39:16
Problem : FACTION ASSIGNMENT & RARITY TABLES -> Availability Changes: 3028-3039, pg. 58

Most have either a + or -, but I notice some don't have this before the number... I can mostly read them, but for a product like this and for someone new, it can be a bit randomish. But all in all, keep up the good job.

I've added a note to the Faction List intro explaining this: numbers without a plus or minus means that unit makes its first appearance in that era, at the Av listed (as opposed to the plus or minus, which means it's a unit that was in the previous set of tables and has had its Av modded up or down for the next set).

Quote
Are you planning to make an Aerospace version as well, and a Post-Jihad / Dark- Age Supplement?

Aero is highly unlikely - there's really not that many aerospace fighters when you break it down by weight, faction, and era.  As for other eras, yes, I'd like to do vehicle and mech tables for all ther eras eventually.  At the rate I'm going, I expect to reach 3085 by about 3075.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: truetanker on 20 May 2011, 11:43:21
Was thinking of the all the jumpers, dropships, occasional warship and yes a list of faction specific fighter, not a MUL like listing. Common Aero they would deploy.

TT
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: Shockwave on 20 May 2011, 12:10:51
It would appear that I am unable to get the PDF....

[EDIT]
Scrap that, I decided to save the blank Firefox page to see what would happen, it save as a PDF which I can now open and see.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: Klep on 20 May 2011, 12:16:14
I love these tables, and I can't wait to get home and have a look at this new version.  Your efforts on this are greatly appreciated Xotl.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.03
Post by: Xotl on 20 May 2011, 15:14:29
Okay, I have to take off for the weekend so I've got no time to make any further correctiosn for a few days.  8.03 is up: remaining table typos corrected, explanation on Av changes added, incorrect reference to Kurita having Crab -27s erased.

Also hopefully easier to copy into Excel (it works for me when I select copy with formatting, but it's also slow): BigDuke let me know.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.03
Post by: BigDuke66 on 20 May 2011, 17:13:33
Yes using "copy with formatting" works for me, normal copy not but thats OK as I can get rid of the format easily.

Unfortunately the FRR 39 assault table is worse than before
CGR-1A1 Charger entry misses numbers completely and there also seems to be missing something between the VTR-9B Victor & BNC-3E Banshee [95]** entries.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.04
Post by: Xotl on 20 May 2011, 17:27:29
8.04 posted to fix that.  I'm leaving town now, so later!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: Rim Worlder on 20 May 2011, 18:45:14
At the rate I'm going, I expect to reach 3085 by about 3075.


 O0    you are ahead of where you need to be.   [cheers]


great news, keep up the good work    [whipit]



seriously, an excellent resource, thank you very much.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.04
Post by: BigDuke66 on 20 May 2011, 21:54:43
The star is off the stage but the show must go on  ;D

Marik 39 Assault table:
201-212 BNC-3Q Banshee [95]
213-212 BNC-3E Banshee [95]**

And the 3 Periphery tables seem to have a wrong date at the top right, shouldn't it be PERIPHERY 3028-3039 instead of PERIPHERY 3028-3057?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Xotl on 22 May 2011, 13:54:51
Back early to see you've found yet more errors.  Doh.

Typos corrected and 8.05 upped.  Thanks.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: BigDuke66 on 22 May 2011, 16:48:13
Thanks!

Meanwhile I've updated my tables(Excel 2010) and made also a PDF(Acrobat 10) version out of it.
Here are the links:
Mechs Excel:
https://rapidshare.com/files/1587297253/3028-3050_Faction_Assignment___Rarity_Tables_8.05_MECHS.xlsx
Vehicles Excel:
https://rapidshare.com/files/1199325398/3028-3050_Faction_Assignment___Rarity_Tables_8.05_VEHICLES.xlsx

Mechs PDF:
https://rapidshare.com/files/3591075427/3028-3050_Faction_Assignment___Rarity_Tables_8.05_MECHS.pdf
Vehicles PDF:
https://rapidshare.com/files/3822764783/3028-3050_Faction_Assignment___Rarity_Tables_8.05_VEHICLES.pdf
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.04
Post by: BrokenMnemonic on 23 May 2011, 04:14:02
And the 3 Periphery tables seem to have a wrong date at the top right, shouldn't it be PERIPHERY 3028-3039 instead of PERIPHERY 3028-3057?
Looking at Mercenaries Supplemental II, the Periphery States didn't begin manufacturing Level 2 tech until the 3060s in a lot of cases, with Ferro-fibrous Armour, Double Heat Sinks, Pulse Lasers and the Streak SRM 2 arriving in the mid to late 3050s in most Periphery States other than the Taurian Concordat, which snagged them a few years earlier. I'm guessing that the dates on the Periphery table reflects the late start these nations got on manufacturing 'Mechs featuring new tech, rather than the small quantities purchased earlier.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Xotl on 23 May 2011, 11:58:43
You're correct: the tables for these states will continue to be the same whenever I get to 3057.  The error was that I have no 3057 tables yet, so it shouldn't read "3057" until I do.  That was a leftover reference from an earlier draft that did have later-era tables.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: eldrwyrm on 23 May 2011, 19:00:14
 [notworthy]
Xotl and BigDuke, you guys are awesome.  Can't wait to get home and update to the new versions.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: M-Rex on 23 May 2011, 20:26:26
I can't get the PDF versions to open.  Adobe keeps saying 'not a supported file type' or that it's damaged.  Anyone else?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Frabby on 23 May 2011, 20:29:46
You're correct: the tables for these states will continue to be the same whenever I get to 3057.  The error was that I have no 3057 tables yet, so it shouldn't read "3057" until I do.  That was a leftover reference from an earlier draft that did have later-era tables.
I was going to suggest that with the Periphery being the Periphery, the 3025 tables would likely be valid all through 3057...  :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: BigDuke66 on 23 May 2011, 20:56:12
I can't get the PDF versions to open.  Adobe keeps saying 'not a supported file type' or that it's damaged.  Anyone else?
If you mean one if my PDFs it could be that it's a PDF 1.7 so only compatible with Acrobat 8.0 or higher, maybe you use an old Reader or one of the other free PDF readers, that could be the problem.
Or the download is really damaged, Mech table is 898.041 Bytes and Vehicle table 503.429 Bytes big.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Xotl on 23 May 2011, 21:49:21
Also make sure you go to the address in the links rather than trying to save it as a file: you have to do the full Rapidshare wait thing to get the actual files.

EDIT: or just use the links in my first post, which are direct downloads.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 May 2011, 01:09:12
all very interesting. i need to save this to my gaming computer.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: TJHairball on 24 May 2011, 05:10:01
One small oddity that caught my attention in 3028 - everybody else gets a small handful of Gladiators except for Kurita? Awww  :-\

Love the detailed work, though. Looks great. ;)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Onisuzume on 24 May 2011, 06:11:40
House Kurita made it an issue to make sure that such a tainted machine wouldn't be found in the combine (strict orders not to salvage them, etc.).
Besides, all Gladiators in the other realms would date back to at least 2490 (last production run).
Quote
Also make sure you go to the address in the links rather than trying to save it as a file: you have to do the full Rapidshare wait thing to get the actual files.
Link leads to the file, not the rapidshare page... (the ones in the OP do, at least)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: BigDuke66 on 24 May 2011, 14:14:45
@XOTL
Maybe it would be good to put my PDF links in the first post too, not sure how many really use office or open office so PDF is the easiest way for them to get the charts.
They are just "graphical enhanced" but I hope those charts can trigger more feedback as one can instantly see how numerous a mech is.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Xotl on 24 May 2011, 23:25:59
I would think everyone has office in one version or another.  I'll be glad to put the pdfs up if you like, but they seem to defeat the purpose, since they presumably don't allow you to create a regiment or some other random force like the excel ones do.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Frabby on 09 June 2011, 18:35:02
Random find: Housebook Liao, p. 47 (right column) tells how the CC lost a lot of 'Mechs on Chesterton in 2812 "including Capella's only batallion of Wolverines".
Given that the CC has no production facility for this 'Mech, this would indicate the WVR to be rarer in the CC than elsewhere, although probably still relatively numerous. Your list has it at 7; I suggest dropping it to 5 or 4 for the CC.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Xotl on 09 June 2011, 19:52:10
One battalion in the CapCon would be Av 5 (I love that I can calculate that sort of thing now with the new system I'm using).  However, I'm reluctant to rely on any specific mech info from the House books - they're often rather badly put together in this regard and have frequently been retconned to boot.  In this case, TR3039 gives the CapCon a Wolverine production line on Nanking, which the FedSuns took in the 4th War.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: Daryk on 09 June 2011, 21:29:53
Random find: Housebook Liao, p. 47 (right column) tells how the CC lost a lot of 'Mechs on Chesterton in 2812 "including Capella's only batallion of Wolverines".
Given that the CC has no production facility for this 'Mech, this would indicate the WVR to be rarer in the CC than elsewhere, although probably still relatively numerous. Your list has it at 7; I suggest dropping it to 5 or 4 for the CC.
Does "Capella's only" in that context mean "the Capellan Confederation's only"?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 22 May v8.05
Post by: BigDuke66 on 09 June 2011, 23:18:18
I guess it was intended that way but now with the info from TRO39 it would be better to take it as Capella's(the planet) only Wolverine battalion that leaves the door open for the existence of Wolverines for the CC and a production facility on Nanking.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Xotl on 28 June 2011, 00:47:43
Minor update to add Quirks for the new units found in Era Digest Age of War and Historical Reunification War.  Age of War in particular adds a new Quirk, Obsolete.

No other changes.

Also, despite rolling back to Office 2007 and Acrobat 9 (which I used forever), I can't make tables the way I used to, wherein Acrobat would actually recognize the columns as actual columns, and a simple copy and paste was all it took to paste the data with all formatting intact into Excel.  If anyone knows what setting(s) I need, or where I can go to get help, I'd be very grateful.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Onisuzume on 28 June 2011, 04:42:17
OpenOffice, perhaps?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Daryk on 28 June 2011, 05:35:20
Have you tried "Paste Special"?  It might be an option there...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Hersh67 on 28 June 2011, 12:23:50
Will there be a new location for the Star League set?  I've tried the link and keep getting 404ed.  :(
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 June 2011, 13:33:31
@XOTL
Could you please correct the links to the Vehicles pdf? You have 2x a link to the Excel tables.

Not sure what it is in English but try to copy it with the format, that looks strange in Excel but at least you get each entry in in one line, after that use the Text in column option to split this cell over as many cells as you want.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: breakdaddy on 28 June 2011, 17:48:39
Thank you for your efforts and for sharing. These tables have been invaluable to me in the short time I've been playing Battletech. I generally prefer playing in 3025 or 3039 so these tables are very useful!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Xotl on 28 June 2011, 20:08:45
Have you tried "Paste Special"?  It might be an option there...

Yeah, that's how I have to do it now: Copy With Formating followed by Paste Special.  The problem is I never had to bother with that: it used to just work.

Will there be a new location for the Star League set?  I've tried the link and keep getting 404ed.  :(

That's because the Star League tables are now (as of v8) in the full document, so I discontinued the separate download.

Could you please correct the links to the Vehicles pdf? You have 2x a link to the Excel tables.

Oops: fixed.

Thank you for your efforts and for sharing. These tables have been invaluable to me in the short time I've been playing Battletech. I generally prefer playing in 3025 or 3039 so these tables are very useful!

Glad I could help.  Thanks!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 27 August 2011, 18:09:09
1. I love these. Very well done, thanks/kudos to Xotl
2. I love the spreadsheets. Thanks BigDuke66.
3. One Small Problem/Oversight: The spreadsheets are for Excel 2007 and beyond (file format) and while they can be converted in several different ways, they're also incompatible (post-conversion to standard xls) with OpenOffice/LibreOffice because the final VLOOKUP is invalid in the generators for those softwares. Which means you're leaving out a LARGE number of users.

Despite the minor issue of not being able to use the generator, I'm very impressed with the work done here. I'm about 5% done with putting the Mechs into RUS, when I'm done I'll post here.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Xotl on 27 August 2011, 18:15:43
Spreadsheets are all BigDuke, so you'll have to see what he says on that.

Thanks for the interest, and I look forward to seeing the results of your work.

Also, on a related note, Netzilla has been kind enough to code everything for MegaMek, so you can use my files in that program.  I'll add the link to the first post, but here it is as well:

http://megamek.info/forums/index.php?topic=217.0

Also, I'll probably put out an update in the next few weeks with a small Quirks update - I'm too busy for much else though I'm afraid.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 27 August 2011, 18:21:46
Also, on a related note, Netzilla has been kind enough to code everything for MegaMek, so you can use my files in that program.  I'll add the link to the first post, but here it is as well:

This is actually how I found your project to begin with. ;)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: BigDuke66 on 27 August 2011, 19:26:00
What do you mean exactly by "invalid"?
Do you get an error message?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 27 August 2011, 20:00:35
Aye, Error 502 (http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Calc_Error_Codes). Sorry for forgetting it ;)
I believe its the embedded function call, I can't remember which you were using... started with an I (I can't open the sheets atm to check, or I would)
The suggested work-a-around on the OpenOffice forums is to use INDEX(MATCH()), however this doesn't work across sheets I don't think.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 August 2011, 06:58:34
Makes me scratch my head, not sure but I think the using of a defined name for the area that should be searched is the problem, looks like OO wants a normal defined area A:2;D:30 for example but I don't have a clue how I should work that in as the name is needed for defining a sheet at all.

Best way to solve this is go to the official OO forum and show them the file, maybe they have an idea and if so you can try it right away and check if it works, if you find something I will see if I can incorporate it so that the file runs like it should in Excel & OpenOffice.
Sorry for not being any help.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Daryk on 28 August 2011, 07:37:14
The AToW spreadsheet I built does look ups on a different worksheet and works fine in Open Office.  I used the 'worksheetname'!<range> notation, and it translated like a champ.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 28 August 2011, 09:55:42
Yeah, I know nothing about the formulas or anything ;)

Also, I'm not a member of the OO.org forums... so I'd have to join to ask. Maybe later this week when I'm not busy. Thanks for looking into it though.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Onisuzume on 29 August 2011, 10:49:45
Makes me scratch my head, not sure but I think the using of a defined name for the area that should be searched is the problem, looks like OO wants a normal defined area A:2;D:30 for example but I don't have a clue how I should work that in as the name is needed for defining a sheet at all.

Best way to solve this is go to the official OO forum and show them the file, maybe they have an idea and if so you can try it right away and check if it works, if you find something I will see if I can incorporate it so that the file runs like it should in Excel & OpenOffice.
Sorry for not being any help.
Couldn't you just make the thing in OpenOffice instead?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 29 August 2011, 11:30:57
I've posted on OO.o forums:
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=43617

Hopefully they come back with an answer quickly!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 29 August 2011, 20:11:54
BigDuke, I can't make heads nor tails of the stuff they're rambling on about. Perhaps you could (assuming you can work past the insults about us spending more time gaming than on perfecting our skills at spreadsheets) figure out what they're trying to say and work it into the sheets so that they function correctly. Thanks :|
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: BigDuke66 on 29 August 2011, 20:56:31
I get the feeling they didn't even look exactly how the generator page work or else they would make such obvious wrong statements.
I think I'll approach it a different way, I go into a German OO forum and see if someone can help me there.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 29 August 2011, 21:22:48
Actually, I've got it worked out. I sifted through all their bull**** and figured out what was wrong.
You're missing some defines. When the one guy talks about doing ctrl-F3 and not seeing anything defined for MerPerGen30283050 I realized you didn't have data ranges defined for those things. Once I started defining data ranges for them, it worked just fine. I'm almost done with the mech sheet now. I also added an enhancement for when you select the wrong Era it gives you an Incorrect Era message in place of the generic error of the software. Do you want me to just post the links to the corrected files here, or do you want me to PM the links to you directly?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: BigDuke66 on 29 August 2011, 21:37:57
Good to hear, yes please pm the links to me I would like to take a look at what you have done.
You also should pm them to XOTL so he can put them in the first post so OO users will find them where it is best.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 29 August 2011, 21:40:36
Will do, and its OO.o, LibreOffice, StarOffice, Gnumeric, and Excel 2000/XP/2K3 (This is the file format I used)
I've got 3 more sheets to do, and then all the incorrect era settings... unless I skip doing those for now to get a working set of sheets out for those of us who have these other office softwares ;)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 30 August 2011, 17:40:53
File link sent by PM, so those others waiting for it will hopefully see it soon.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Xotl on 31 August 2011, 06:31:09
I've replaced the mech file in the first post with the one adjusted by ralgith to work on OpenOffice and the like.  Give it a try and let me know if something isn't working for you.

Thanks ralgith.

EDIT: Also, Battlemaster, who is involved with the MegaMek project, was kind enough to offer to insert Netzilla's conversion of my tables into MegaMek itself, so soon you won't need to download them separately.  Big thanks to Battlemaster.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Sandslice on 04 September 2011, 20:48:41
A quick question, which came up due to Netzilla's conversions.

Given the way BT's core rules tend to use "F is better" (maintenance in Strat Ops, availability tables from TM/TO/aToW, etc) what led you to use "A is better" ?  I'm thinking Dragoon rating, but I'm not sure.  :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Xotl on 04 September 2011, 20:53:49
That's the more modern usage.  A = best reflects the older Field Manual usage, which is the series of books I'm referring to in my tables anyways.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Sandslice on 04 September 2011, 20:54:56
That's the more modern useage.  A = best reflects the older Field Manual useage, which is the series of books I'm referring to in my tables anyways.

Ahh, makes sense then.  Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ralgith on 04 September 2011, 20:56:43
Xotl,

Have you, or are you, considered doing AeroSpace tables as well? AeroSpace tables in general are very lacking imo, and I'd like to see them done in your style.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Xotl on 04 September 2011, 21:29:14
I've been asked a few times, but I'm still of the opinion that, when you break the available aerospace fighters down by era and faction and weight class, that there's too few to really make a useful series of tables.  As such, I've never had the intention of making them.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: greywolf79 on 29 December 2011, 17:04:22
I think I said this before but it is worth saying again...

This is awesome! Also, thanks a ton for the hard work. I had a system restore and lost the original copy I downloaded so now I have it again... I love it.

1 quick question though... Is there any plans on expanding it with newer designs/TRO units?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Xotl on 29 December 2011, 17:34:01
I have a tiny revision lying around with just a few quirk updates and a fixed typo or two that I might send up in the next few days.  As for more than that...

Our forum's own Cyttorak offered to take care of the 3050 Inner Sphere tables for me, which is the next series to be done.  I'd done preliminary work on them, but he has done about 95% of the work so far and has them finished.  However, I've yet to proof them, which I feel is needed in order to keep a consistent vision.  He's been patiently waiting for me to get to it.

It's not so much that I don't have the time as it is that I don't have the Battletech time - I only want to donate so much of my life to this game.  I spent weeks working on RATs for FM 3085 and another project, and have 50 pages of TacOps errata to go through, plus general errata duties and some other stuff I can't talk about.  I'd really like to move on with this, which got me started with Catalyst in the first place, but it's easy to burn out, and I want to avoid that.  Grad school and my fiancee must take priority.

Thanks for your interest.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: Hersh67 on 29 December 2011, 22:09:03
It's not so much that I don't have the time as it is that I don't have the Battletech time - I only want to donate so much of my life to this game.  I spent weeks working on RATs for FM 3085 and another project, and have 50 pages of TacOps errata to go through, plus general errata duties and some other stuff I can't talk about.  I'd really like to move on with this, which got me started with Catalyst in the first place, but it's easy to burn out, and I want to avoid that.  Grad school and my fiancee must take priority.

Thanks for your interest.

I'll echo the thanks and appreciation for what you did.  I'm glad it got you noticed by CGL and put you in a position to make this universe a better one.  By all means, school and the lady take priority!  If you take care of them as well as you did the tables, you will have a successful life.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 27 June v8.06
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 29 December 2011, 23:20:16
Thanks for your interest.
BZZZZZT

We are the ones who have YOU to thank for the incredible efforts.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: Xotl on 30 December 2011, 02:12:38
I've posted that minor update I discussed: just a typo fix or two and a few quirks updates I've noted down over the past few months, mostly dealing with the new stuff from TR Prototypes. 

EDIT: The latest versions of BigDuke's spreadsheets have also been added - OpenOffice compatibility has been improved.

Cheers.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: Daryk on 30 December 2011, 07:55:30
So what do we have to do to get this thread a sticky?  Your RATs may be fanon, but they're fanon that got you noticed by TPTB.  Maybe a sticky at the top of one of the Fan Boards would be less objectionable?  As always, thanks for your great work!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: skiltao on 30 December 2011, 14:46:17
as it is that I don't have the Battletech time - I only want to donate so much of my life to this game.  <snip>  it's easy to burn out, and I want to avoid that.  Grad school and my fiancee must take priority.

No kidding. Here's hoping that your other duties go smoothly for you in the meantime.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: BigDuke66 on 31 December 2011, 19:53:18
Finally found time to make the Excel files compatible with OpenOffice(at least I hope it works now, if not please tell me).
Here are the files for the XOTLs 8.07:
Mechs 8.07 PDF: http://www.mediafire.com/?ncc44gm84800j9a
Mechs 8.07 Excel: http://www.mediafire.com/?y2vrog2q2ru7oyp
Vehicles 8.07 PDF: http://www.mediafire.com/?h1t6x4knuh64h79
Vehicles 8.07 Excel: http://www.mediafire.com/?903ad0qf1dguz1j

Not sure if this Hoster is good so if anyone knows a better place please post.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: Styker on 01 February 2012, 16:33:46
Any chance you might consider doing any earlier tables for the succession wars?  The 1st, 2nd, and 3rd have no tables that I'm aware of for these periods.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: Xotl on 01 February 2012, 17:02:59
Not likely: there's even less info there than for the Star League era, which is pretty spotty as it is.

It would be fun as a totally make-stuff-up exercise, but I generally prefer to have more canon backing, and other eras need to take priority anyways.  Hell, I just found I have more updates to do for the lists I already have out.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 February 2012, 17:20:17
So what do we have to do to get this thread a sticky?  Your RATs may be fanon, but they're fanon that got you noticed by TPTB.  Maybe a sticky at the top of one of the Fan Boards would be less objectionable?  As always, thanks for your great work!

Edgads! Next you'll be suggesting my fanfic from rec.games.mecha be stickied because that's how I was noticed.  ;)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: Daryk on 01 February 2012, 20:30:29
Not necessarily... as good as that fanfic may be (never having read it), it doesn't exactly have direct application in game, like Xotl's RATs do.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: snowridr on 05 April 2012, 22:23:42
Just curious to know if there has been any progress on the 3050 charts, or if this will be handed off to someone else.  The charts have been the basis of mech and vehicles for our local Battletech 3040 era+ campaign and have been extremely useful.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: Xotl on 06 April 2012, 03:30:25
I was working on this today actually.  I had to double back and update 3028 and 3039 first, because I received new information (behind-the-scenes MUL stuff that I can't share) which resulted in new details that need to be integrated.  The vehicle tables in particular will greatly benefit (though I think I'll hold them off until later, because I really want to get 3050 mechs out the door).  I am free (temporarily I'm sure) of pressing Catalyst stuff, so the time is there.

So, short answer: yes, being worked on now, no ETA.  Thanks for your interest.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: Medron Pryde on 06 April 2012, 14:51:04
Woohoo!

*Starts doing to the peanut butter jelly dance*

:)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: Xotl on 07 April 2012, 01:49:34
Here’s v8.1 -

New updates for Clan stuff (thanks to Kobold for prompting all of this):

-   ALL Medium tables: slightly upped Hunchback IIC numbers to meet that 3% figure quoted in TR3058U
-   added missing Fenris C to Diamond Shark tables
-   upped Jade Falcon Executioner numbers based on further research and consultation with MUL team Clan experts
-   added missing Cauldron Born and Kingfishers to the Smoke Jaguar tables

And other stuff:

-   added Atlas -RS to the Davion tables
-   heavy increases to Kurita Lancelot numbers to meet the stated 200 figure (FRR wasn't increased - that will be next update)
-   dropped Battlemaster -1S numbers for 3028 (it debuted in 3025, so the previous amount was too many)
-   tweaked Inner Sphere Mech numbers based on MUL production data (sorry, not for public release)
-   a few typo corrections, some to the Faction Lists
-   the usual minor Quirks adjustments

What was most affected here were Unseen numbers.  For the most part they went down overall, but it's really more of a House-by-House adjustment to take into account native production, which I now understand far better.  For example, you'll notice fewer base-model Archers (though they're still common), and more House variants (Crusader -Ls, House Wasps, etc).


Here's the plan of attack for now:

 - Finish 3050 A-level tables
 - Then go back and completely redo the vehicle tables, because I've received enough new info that they need a complete rework now.  This may take longer, because I tend to do a lot of back-end work for each unit type and era now that is sort of time consuming.  It does save me a lot of time for future updates, and helps weed out manual data entry errors however.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 07 April 2012, 02:14:02
Yaaaaay!  Many thanks sir - I look forward to seeing more house-mods instead of the bone-stock rides. :D
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: wolftech on 07 April 2012, 05:29:26
Cool. Thanks for the update!  O0
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: Onisuzume on 07 April 2012, 05:52:19
Darneþ, and I just downloaded 8.07 last night. >_>
Also, didn't the Draconis Combine supposedly sell Dragons and Marauders to the FWL due to the Concord of Kapteyn?
If so, shouldn't there be at least some Dragons in the FLW rat for 3028?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: Xotl on 07 April 2012, 12:57:03
We went over that in one of the three previous (now-lost) threads.  Basically while it was announced as a plan, there's no evidence it ever actually occurred.  I assume the 4th Succession War scuttled any chance to implement it.

EDIT: aargh, I missed that the Hunchback -SP went from a one-off in 3025 to "most-popular" in 3039.  It will be in the next update for 3028-3050.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: Bad_Syntax on 07 April 2012, 14:52:55
Happen to have an excel version or something slightly easier to manipulate?

Not as much like BigDuke66's versions as just a plain old text/excel/etc file that isn't a PDF which never seems to copy tables very well.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: Xotl on 08 April 2012, 14:28:39
There will be a quick 8.2 to bring St. Ives and FRR in line with the changes I made to Liao and Kurita, and to correct a couple of oversights.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: epic on 08 April 2012, 15:38:27
Trying to bring up the pdf, not working today... :(

NM, got it on 4th try.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: epic on 08 April 2012, 15:52:44
In regards to the re-work for vehicles, a request: please incorporate the Tokugawa heavy tank into DCMS tables?  It was listed in the original HK sourcebook as a tank they produced, though we didn't see stats for it until TRO 3058! 
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: Xotl on 08 April 2012, 20:48:48
The Tokugawa was the very first thing I noticed and the one that first prompted a relook at vehicles, so it will definitely be in there.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: worktroll on 08 April 2012, 21:17:08
I know I'm opening a ball of wax here, but ... when you start moving post 3050, any chance of Battle Armour RATs?

W.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 29 Dec v8.07
Post by: SCC on 08 April 2012, 21:22:13
I was working on this today actually.  I had to double back and update 3028 and 3039 first, because I received new information (behind-the-scenes MUL stuff that I can't share)
Wouldn't that data effecting the tables break the NDA?
And the MUL team has actual production data? That's new
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 6 Apr v8.1
Post by: Xotl on 08 April 2012, 22:06:19
I know I'm opening a ball of wax here, but ... when you start moving post 3050, any chance of Battle Armour RATs?

3057 at the earliest, I would think (which is the set that comes after 3050), but yeah, I'd likely do them up - they wouldn't be that hard.

Wouldn't that data effecting the tables break the NDA?
And the MUL team has actual production data? That's new

Just like Oystein has a master list of planets and of unit movements for certain eras, there has to be a list of factories so that people know who builds what, where, and when, and so that people know where to place designs without creating continuity breaches.  The MUL was built out of earlier compiled sublists, for example.  The "data" I'm sharing doesn't reveal any of that really, since it's made up numbers.  For instance, we always knew the Capellans built Crusader -Ls: I just now know where and roughly when and chose to adjust some of my made up numbers up or down based on that.  It is NOT hard production data (no numbers whatsoever), so I'm just inferring.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 10 April 2012, 02:41:40
Here's that quickie update: 8.2

Added a very small number of VND-1Xs
Added Hunchback -SP to 3039
Added both Succession War Tokugawa tanks to Kurita and FRR (might as well get them while I was at it)
Updated FRR and St. Ives to match the appropriate changes to their parent lists from 8.1 and 8.2
Added one Quirk (find it and win!)

The Hunchback -SP is listed as a one-off in TR 3025, and yet one of the most popular variants in TR 3039.  I've attempted to straddle both sources by only adding the -SP to the 3039 House tables, which could be a bit silly, but works with both references.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Daryk on 10 April 2012, 06:07:24
I found the quirk, but don't recognize the mech.  Regardless, thanks for the update!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 10 April 2012, 18:13:42
Found a wayback machine link to previous threads, on the old forums.  It only goes to January 2010, but it's better than nothing.  I'll put a link in the first post.

Last thread:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100108041445/http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=53761.0

Thread before that:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090120044259/http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=34933.0
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Neufeld on 11 April 2012, 01:18:08
The Hunchback -SP is listed as a one-off in TR 3025, and yet one of the most popular variants in TR 3039.  I've attempted to straddle both sources by only adding the -SP to the 3039 House tables, which could be a bit silly, but works with both references.

And yet it is the only intro-tech swayback that is extinct by 3067, according to the MUL.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 06 July 2012, 07:05:15
One thing from the thread for Worktroll's Army Reports thread the EXT-4A Exterminator appears in the Davion and Liao tables but was only build on Thermopolis in the Free Worlds League.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: nckestrel on 06 July 2012, 09:02:18
One thing from the thread for Worktroll's Army Reports thread the EXT-4A Exterminator appears in the Davion and Liao tables but was only build on Thermopolis in the Free Worlds League.

apparently Xotl already fixed that, because in the most recent version at least it's only listed for FWL.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: TS_Hawk on 06 July 2012, 11:19:25
nicely done.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: mitchberthelson on 06 July 2012, 12:52:15
apparently Xotl already fixed that, because in the most recent version at least it's only listed for FWL.

Didn't Tech Readout: 3025 Revised put EXT-4A production on Nanking? It was earlier than 3050U and Handbook: House Marik. Was it wrong or just retconned?

BTW: These things are indeed great. Many thanks to the author.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: martian on 06 July 2012, 13:17:40
Didn't Tech Readout: 3025 Revised put EXT-4A production on Nanking?

No, it did not. TRO:3025Rev only said it was produced in 3007.

Brush Wars listed EXT-4A in RAT for Federated Suns.

Then TRO:3050U specified the production site as Kallon factory on Thermopolis.

Handbook: House Marik listed Exterminator as being produced on Thermopolis in 3067, but I guess that's just typo. (or they really produce(d) that 'Mech? And which model, then?)

I don't know where the idea that Exterminator was produced on Nanking comes from. (yes, I know it's on Sarna)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: mitchberthelson on 06 July 2012, 13:20:49
No, it did not. TRO:3025Rev only said it was produced in 3007.

Brush Wars listed EXT-4A in RAT for Federated Suns.

Then TRO:3050U specified the production site as Kallon factory on Thermopolis.

Handbook: House Marik listed Exterminator as being produced on Thermopolis in 3067, but I guess that's just typo. (or they really produce(d) that 'Mech? And which model, then?)

I don't know where the idea that Exterminator was produced on Nanking comes from. (yes, I know it's on Sarna)

Thanks. I'll do some more of my own research on that, then. Maybe the Nanking reference was related to the new variant supposedly being produced by Kallon for ComStar?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: martian on 06 July 2012, 13:43:40
Thanks. I'll do some more of my own research on that, then. Maybe the Nanking reference was related to the new variant supposedly being produced by Kallon for ComStar?

I don't think so. ComStar-owned EXT-4D Exterminators were all stockpiled 'Mechs left in the Inner Sphere after Kerensky departed with SLDF.

Even pre-Jihad models EXT-5E/F are explicitly described as refits of those old 'Mechs.

Kallon simply didn't produce Exterminators for ComStar, only simplified EXT-4As for FWLM.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 06 July 2012, 14:49:35
Not really sure why worktroll's tables would have the -4A in non-FWL service, because I made them and certainly didn't put the -4A in any of them, including the FWL one.  We've "known" since TR3050U and TR3039 came out that only 25 were made by Kallon on Thermopolis - not enough to feature on a table even in 3007 when they were all still around - and that it was extinct by the end of the Fourth War.  I guess he made some post-submission edits, or there was a simple mistake made by one of us somewhere.

One of the things on my to-do list is a new set of tables for him anyways, mostly because I've learned a lot about vehicle deployment since then, but I can make a few other corrections to the mechs as well.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: nckestrel on 06 July 2012, 14:54:56
Not really sure why worktroll's tables would have the -4A in non-FWL service, because I made them and certainly didn't put the -4A in any of them, including the FWL one. 

666-677
EXT-4A Exterminator [65]

For FWL 3028.  PDF v8.2.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 06 July 2012, 15:03:34
I was referring to the ones I made for him - I know they're on mine, but mine are also D1000, so I have room for that sort of granularity.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: mitchberthelson on 06 July 2012, 15:12:50
I don't think so. ComStar-owned EXT-4D Exterminators were all stockpiled 'Mechs left in the Inner Sphere after Kerensky departed with SLDF.

Even pre-Jihad models EXT-5E/F are explicitly described as refits of those old 'Mechs.

Kallon simply didn't produce Exterminators for ComStar, only simplified EXT-4As for FWLM.

What about the EXT-6CS from XTRO: ComStar? Was that one built from the ground up or just a refit?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 06 July 2012, 15:24:58
What about the EXT-6CS from XTRO: ComStar? Was that one built from the ground up or just a refit?

Refit as far as we know, none have been built anywhere since Kallon's limited run of -4A's in the early 3000's.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: worktroll on 06 July 2012, 16:29:37
I was referring to the ones I made for him - I know they're on mine, but mine are also D1000, so I have room for that sort of granularity.

It's not on the 2d6 RAT, but it's on the list of commons & uncommons. ANything on the d1000 list became an "uncommon", those on the RAT "common". Obviously should be a "rare".

Does CLPS count as foil? ;)

W>
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 06 July 2012, 16:34:43
Ah, a subchart.  I didn't realize you set one of those up - when I redo those mech charts for you I'll take a look at them and take them in account.

CLPS would be chase-holo-foil-autographed. :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Greyhind on 06 July 2012, 17:16:47
As a reasonable adult, rather than a school kid whom the teacher is presuming might have confidence issues, I am fully aware that there are in fact such things as stupid questions. Its been over a year since I started to use the various incarnations of these tables. I'm now ready to look a fool.

How do you roll on a D1000 table?

I've been trying to use 3D10 by shifting the decimal place if the last die comes up with a 10 but while this is theoretically internally consistent I'm not finding it intuitive. Which in turn makes it inaccurate and, quite frankly, difficult especially when rolling up a large number of results.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 06 July 2012, 17:32:06
Nothing silly about not knowing a bit of arcane gamer practice; it's for that reason that I included instructions for the non-grognards among us.  It's the very first thing in the document (page 2, first paragraph).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 06 July 2012, 17:38:10
How do you roll on a D1000 table?

I've been trying to use 3D10 by shifting the decimal place if the last die comes up with a 10 but while this is theoretically internally consistent I'm not finding it intuitive. Which in turn makes it inaccurate and, quite frankly, difficult especially when rolling up a large number of results.

3d10 in order will give you anything from 001 to 999, if they all come up 0/10, that's 1000.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Lysenko on 06 July 2012, 17:49:23
You can also buy a "d1000" die. There's even a d10000, but Hackmaster is the only game I've ever used it in,.

(http://www.toplessrobot.com/d1000.jpg)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 06 July 2012, 17:50:22
I admit to being a horrible cheat with Xotl's tables - go to www.random.org and use their integer generator, you can have it give you a list of as many numbers as you want, from whatever to whatever, so I sat back and did the 108/120/144 'mechs for various regiments with 1-1000 options. It takes less than a second, you just sort it ascending or descending, and get your numbers from the table.  It's also entirely random because it's based on values generated by air noise against microphones at their location - so it's not a preprogrammed number generator but more like a one-time pad's encryption.  Great stuff.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 06 July 2012, 19:33:26
I admit to being a horrible cheat with Xotl's tables - go to www.random.org and use their integer generator, you can have it give you a list of as many numbers as you want, from whatever to whatever, so I sat back and did the 108/120/144 'mechs for various regiments with 1-1000 options. It takes less than a second, you just sort it ascending or descending, and get your numbers from the table.  It's also entirely random because it's based on values generated by air noise against microphones at their location - so it's not a preprogrammed number generator but more like a one-time pad's encryption.  Great stuff.
Just be careful because Xotl's tables are based on using 3d10 which will have a different distribution to what you are describing
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 06 July 2012, 19:46:30
Just be careful because Xotl's tables are based on using 3d10 which will have a different distribution to what you are describing

How is the distribution different?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 06 July 2012, 20:13:23
How is the distribution different?
The way he's describing what he doing is he's using their integer generator not the dice roller, the former will have a uniform distribution while the using d1,000 (three d10) will be something like a bell curve, they will also have different average result 555.5 Vs. 610.5
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Feenix74 on 06 July 2012, 20:50:47
Bell curve distribution would occur if you were adding the three individually rolled values together, eg you rolled 3D10 to give you a number between 3 and 30 (so you roll D10 three times, getting the values a, b, c and you add them together to get value d a+b+c=d (d being a value between 3 and 30).

EDIT - corrected typo (3D10 gives values between 3 and 30 not 1 and 30)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 06 July 2012, 21:52:05
using d1,000 (three d10) will be something like a bell curve, they will also have different average result 555.5 Vs. 610.5
How is it a bell curve?  You're using a flat 0-9 roll, even probabilities, for each individual digit.  10% chance for any result for the 100s place, for the 10s place, and for the 1s place entirely independent from each other.  That's how 3d10 as a d1000 works - you're not rolling 3d10, you're rolling 1d10 x 100, 1d10 x 10, and 1d10 x 1.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 06 July 2012, 22:15:00
And the average for the d1000 is, thanks to Karl Gauss, easily solvable as (1000+1)/2=500.5 and doesn't explode when hit by a TAC.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: worktroll on 06 July 2012, 23:52:27
I dunno, if Karl Gauss was hit by a TAC from a 'Mech-scale weapon, I bet he'd explode ...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: scatcat on 16 July 2012, 15:34:14
What a beautiful tool!

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 28 August 2012, 03:51:31
When we get new LAM rules will they be added to the tables?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 28 August 2012, 04:08:21
Good question.  Offhand I'd have to say yes, I think so, even if there isn't BV for them (I'd likely make them ultra-rare slots that ignore BV, like I did with the Cyclops w/HQ module).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 28 August 2012, 04:34:08
In-Universe time frame wise when did LAMs start fading out? Because it could effect the tables.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 28 August 2012, 06:58:31
There's no clear-cut answer, but they were relatively common in 3025 - rare, prized, and hard to maintain yes, but still existing in significant numbers throughout the Inner Sphere.  By the time the Clan Invasion ends they seem to be rare as hen's teeth, and no spares are being made any longer.  I'd likely place sharp drop-offs in numbers following the Fourth War, and even larger ones post-3052.  But I haven't done any research on this yet, so this is just off-the-top-of-my-head musing.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 August 2012, 11:31:19
I always had the impression that the really working LAMs where already rare before 3025.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 28 August 2012, 18:03:17
Sorry, I said relatively common, but then rare - I meant "relatively" in comparison to just a few decades later, when they become totally extinct.  You have one or two units entirely of made up of LAMS in 3025, IIRC, and a factory making spare parts.  Every House has some, as well as some mercs.  They're prized, but hardly unknown.  They're clearly precious lostech, but compared to the 3060s, it's not so bad.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Lysenko on 28 August 2012, 23:50:08
That's the why I see it as well. I have a Level III of LAMs for my Com Guard units (the aero/recon element). Other than that the only one I have is a P-Hawk LAM in one of the my 15th Dracon lances. :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Makinus on 31 August 2012, 07:14:16
The next "era" to be added to the tables will be 3055? And you will add Clan Second Line tables too?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 31 August 2012, 08:08:05
Actually I'm plodding through 3050 A-levels and ComStar first, followed by 3057.  But I just keep getting more and more official work, so...

Clan Second Line has always been on the map, but the hold-up there is organizational - just how do I do it so that I don't have 10 tables with only 6 entries apiece different?

I swear I'll get this out even if it kills me though.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Makinus on 31 August 2012, 08:55:33
Without doing any research, i imagine that, differently from Frontline tables, most Secondline clan formations would be nearly equal to all clan factions (everyone draws from the same old SL mechs with few exceptions), so i imagine that you could have a "general" second-line mech table with a reference (say, in rolls above 900) for another small table with the few unique/different mechs that different clan factions deploy in secondline formations. These "small tables" could be grouped in one or two pages for all clans present on the IS during the period.

Just my two cents
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 31 August 2012, 11:49:34
i imagine that you could have a "general" second-line mech table with a reference (say, in rolls above 900) for another small table with the few unique/different mechs that different clan factions deploy in secondline formations. These "small tables" could be grouped in one or two pages for all clans present on the IS during the period.

Just my two cents
Kind of like how the FWL has its subfaction tables in 3085.  I like that.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: worktroll on 31 August 2012, 15:59:01
Actually I'm plodding through 3050 A-levels and ComStar first, followed by 3057.  But I just keep getting more and more official work, so...

Your journey to the Dark Side is almost complete ...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 31 August 2012, 19:36:43
The Dark Side does have cookies....
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 August 2012, 20:37:53
And better uniforms.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 31 August 2012, 22:03:01
What about the chicks?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Hersh67 on 31 August 2012, 23:16:02
You get your money for nothin' and your chicks for free...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 31 August 2012, 23:33:00
Also, my wife frowns on chicks, so I had to turn that part of the Standard Catalyst Compensation Package down.  She has an axe, and so is remarkably persuasive concerning such things.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 September 2012, 14:07:13
Also, my wife frowns on chicks, so I had to turn that part of the Standard Catalyst Compensation Package down.  She has an axe, and so is remarkably persuasive concerning such things.

What about ducklings instead?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 01 September 2012, 15:35:53
Right out - too foul.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: greywolf79 on 02 September 2012, 15:20:09
So now I am wondering, is there an expected time for the next release? You do excellent work, I am looking forward to when it gets closer to the "current" times for research purposes... I am going to be making a 3067ish set of units. So I am looking forward to the next group of updates but it will also be nice to see the 3070s and 3085 groups when done too.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 02 September 2012, 15:32:34
I'm going to be realistic and say don't hold your breath.  I want to do it, but as I've frequently noted before, each future era takes longer than the last, because you don't have to find out what's new, you have to make judgements about how to adjust the amounts on everything that's old as well.

3057 is doable and somewhat on the radar.  Beyond that I haven't even thought of.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: greywolf79 on 02 September 2012, 16:02:07
3057 is doable and somewhat on the radar.  Beyond that I haven't even thought of.

Still a step closer... And to be honest, you work hard each step of the way for us - so I am in no rush, I just look forward to the next release.

If I can help in some way, let me know with a pm. I am not the fastest researcher nor the most keen eyed, but I am happy to help with great projects like this one.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: pensiveswetness on 19 September 2012, 23:22:17
not to toss more beer cans in your soup bowl but in regards to Inner sphere Omnimechs, i hope your just listing the basic models (since unlike the Clans, specific varients are less of a issue, for the intial release)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: lexington476 on 29 September 2012, 11:47:19
I have not looked at the charts in a while... Wow, I just looked at the 8.2 charts, Xotl has been busy... 76 pages... :-\, the printer is real low on toner, :'( cannot really print these off anymore... :( , hmmm there is a Staples nearby  }:).... hmmm, toner, or pay to have it printed, and bound... 8)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 29 September 2012, 22:00:26
pay to have it printed, and bound... 8)
That which has been bound cannot be unbound.

(well, that, and as soon as you do he'll release a 9.0 and I want to see that version, so get to it)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: kronovan on 01 October 2012, 18:54:47
Wow, very mpressed with this document. I made a post for the books that had this info some months ago, but never thought at the time of asking if there was anything fan made. Well, you get what you ask for, and no one mentioned this in their replies. :-\ I‘m running a campaign that began in 3024 and will conclude in 3039, so this is perfect. To all those who worked on it - excellent job!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 01 October 2012, 19:53:28
Thank you very much. :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: beachhead1985 on 23 October 2012, 11:10:46
This was just the sort of thing I was looking for! But I have a question and a suggestion;

Question; What is an Atlas AS7-RS, and where can I find a record sheet? You see virtually no atlas variants in introductory-level play, so this is very cool.

Suggestion; do a 3rd succession war/2950-3025 listing and a listing for periphery forces and mercenaries.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: martian on 23 October 2012, 11:21:06
Question; What is an Atlas AS7-RS, and where can I find a record sheet? You see virtually no atlas variants in introductory-level play, so this is very cool.

This Atlas is armed with two Large lasers, one AC-10 and LRMs + SRMs.

Record Sheet for it is in Record Sheets: 3039 Unabridged (BC212; with silver Banshee on cover).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: beachhead1985 on 23 October 2012, 15:08:55
This Atlas is armed with two Large lasers, one AC-10 and LRMs + SRMs.

Record Sheet for it is in Record Sheets: 3039 Unabridged (BC212; with silver Banshee on cover).

Cool!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: M-Rex on 23 October 2012, 23:47:21
Have the tables been updated since April?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 23 October 2012, 23:55:14
No: I would have posted had they had, and updated the thread title to match.

It remains something on my to-do list - I do not consider the project abandoned - but as I've said here several times, what time I have for Battletech is now largely occupied with errata duties, fact-checking upcoming products, and now working on answering rules questions.  I can't do all that and handle real-life concerns without cutting back on work on these tables.

One day I'll get a new set done.  More than that I can't say.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: pensiveswetness on 24 October 2012, 20:06:18
you sir, need to start breeding (so you can enlist your future minions into your vile villianous profession)  >:D
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Warpimp on 24 October 2012, 20:41:47
I would love to see tables like yours for 3055. I find myself stuck in 3025 simply because your tables are the only ones that feel real.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: pensiveswetness on 29 October 2012, 19:57:25
i like using them because the variety on my dice rolls is better. The RUS is useful by themselves but the FA&R tables just seems more... sensible.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 26 December 2012, 22:17:37
Xotl, quick (hopefully) question: will the 'Mechs and Vehicles from XTRO: Succession Wars, V1 be added to the tables? Or are they too rare or the use of experimental equipment prevent their use?
Specifically, the Şoarece Superheavy MBT, would that appear on assault weight vehicle tables or does it status as a super heavy unit prohibit it from being randomly generated?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 28 December 2012, 02:16:27
The vehicle tables need to be heavily redone.  I might add the Şoarece to Marik as a rather rare unit on the Marik assault tables, but offhand none of the other units I think would fit.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 28 December 2012, 03:02:13
In the Succession Wars I wouldn't be surprised if there were several super-heavy tanks, you have to make up for the reduced effectiveness of intro-tech some how and if you adhere to the old 'Fusion Engines are rare' belief putting one of your rare fusion engines in something that big and tough makes sense
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: theonlystd on 21 January 2013, 00:12:53
Is there a table anywhere that does IS for the 3050 period?



Tho will say love this!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 21 January 2013, 00:37:28
They're being worked on.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 21 January 2013, 06:46:44
They're being worked on.
Hooray! Cannot thank you enough for this.  Between this and MadCap's OR67, I can't think of any better fanmade product.

Okay maybe Megamek and SSW but still.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 21 January 2013, 06:50:00
OR67?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 21 January 2013, 06:53:19
OR67?
Objective Raids 3067, AKA MadCapellan goes insane with all the factory details he can just prior to the Jihad.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Frabby on 21 January 2013, 09:16:45
Xotl, I finally remembered to put up an article about this project on Sarna. See if you're happy with it, or if something should be added or changed:
Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Faction_Assignment_%26_Rarity_Tables)

Keep up the good work!  :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: dragonkid11 on 21 January 2013, 09:23:22
Could someone put this awesome PDF in downloadable form?

As soon as I opened the pdf file at dropbox.com the page freezed.(My computer is made of dinosaur fossils if you are asking)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Frabby on 21 January 2013, 09:30:59
You should be able to right-click the link in this thread's first post, and select to save the file.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: mbear on 21 January 2013, 11:32:03
Actually I'm plodding through 3050 A-levels and ComStar first, followed by 3057.  But I just keep getting more and more official work, so...

Clan Second Line has always been on the map, but the hold-up there is organizational - just how do I do it so that I don't have 10 tables with only 6 entries apiece different?
How about on Clan Second Line table you have all the common second line units, and an entry that reads *CLAN SPECIFIC, See Table SL-1*

Table SL-1 lists the six different entries.

I swear I'll get this out even if it kills me though.

Don't let it kill you! You're too important to the fans! Won't someone please think of the fans! ;)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 21 January 2013, 14:50:04
Xotl, I finally remembered to put up an article about this project on Sarna. See if you're happy with it, or if something should be added or changed:
Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Faction_Assignment_%26_Rarity_Tables)

Keep up the good work!  :)

Cool.  I think the original title (at least, it's the oldest one I can find) was "3025 Faction List & Deployment Tables" (since I started with just 3025).  The only other change I'd make is noting that they contain vehicles too.

Thanks for the page!

How about on Clan Second Line table you have all the common second line units, and an entry that reads *CLAN SPECIFIC, See Table SL-1*

Table SL-1 lists the six different entries.

I sort everything in the tables in BV order, so that "Clan Specific" entry would have to be all over the place, to account for the different BV positions each Clan-specific mech is.

However, I think I have an idea of how to do it along those lines, so it might be okay.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 18 March 2013, 01:37:26
Xtol, if you ever get around to doing the IS 3050 and later tables will you include separate ones for C3 forces?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: pensiveswetness on 18 March 2013, 12:24:14
probably no need to do that since c3 modifications, though many use 3050 tables, probably didnt start being popular (or available) until later into the decade. the lists should include all the 2025 mechs refitted per TRO 3050 intitially...

i can imagine his tables, for the decade will be marked 3050, 3052, 3055, 3058 and 3060. it just gets harder because the more entries available (or references required, when it comes to refering to the 3039/2025 tables), the more messy the numbers... still gets a BZ,  from me.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 18 March 2013, 12:48:24
I have no plans for separate C3 tables.

Timeline-wise, the next tables are 3050 and then 3057.  Beyond that I haven't given it any real thought, though offhand 3067 seems a reasonable follow-up date.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: beachhead1985 on 18 March 2013, 14:03:17
I'd love to see the throwback designs from 3075 included in the succession wars tables, and a wolf's dragoons table.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 18 March 2013, 14:10:11
They already are - the only one still in existence was the Icarus II, which I added to Marik in very small numbers.  I checked on this back when 3075 first came out - the rest were extinct by the time 3028 rolled around.

As for the Dragoons, as they already have a book dedicated entirely to them complete with individual rides for every mechwarrior, anything I did in that regard would be redundant (and would contradict canon).  Beyond that, I don't want to go down the road of trying to make a list for every unit, even "just" the major ones.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: beachhead1985 on 18 March 2013, 14:30:58
They already are - the only one still in existence was the Icarus II, which I added to Marik in very small numbers.  I checked on this back when 3075 first came out - the rest were extinct by the time 3028 rolled around.

As for the Dragoons, as they already have a book dedicated entirely to them complete with individual rides for every mechwarrior, anything I did in that regard would be redundant (and would contradict canon).  Beyond that, I don't want to go down the road of trying to make a list for every unit, even "just" the major ones.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Hersh67 on 18 March 2013, 17:37:19
I could make an arguement for a WD table post-4th SW.  After all, they would be decimated and rebuilding.  The influx of new (FedCom) mechs, salvage from the Dragon, and influx of new pilots, the phone book would be outdated.  Of course, *I'm* not the one that would be assembling those tables... 
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: beachhead1985 on 20 March 2013, 13:32:34
Well, my thought also being that the dragoons have fought everyone but the periphery by the time of the 4th succession war, is it not possible that some of their trademark mechs would make it into the orbats of the major powers, especially the DCMS post-misery?

Maybe what is needed is a "rare mech" table you get to with something similiar to the "____ Salvage" results. Might be a good place to put the LAMs too.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 20 March 2013, 13:54:25
I could make an arguement for a WD table post-4th SW.  After all, they would be decimated and rebuilding.  The influx of new (FedCom) mechs, salvage from the Dragon, and influx of new pilots, the phone book would be outdated.  Of course, *I'm* not the one that would be assembling those tables...
20% A-rated 3028 Kuritan 'Mechs, 40% A-rated Davion 'Mechs, 40% merc
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 20 March 2013, 15:37:52
Well, my thought also being that the dragoons have fought everyone but the periphery by the time of the 4th succession war, is it not possible that some of their trademark mechs would make it into the orbats of the major powers, especially the DCMS post-misery?

They simply don't have enough of those mechs to matter when dealing with a House-wide scale.  Think of how many Fireflys, Imps, and Hoplites the Dragoons might have over five regiments.  Now think about how many of those would have been salvaged from them (very few, considering 9 times out of ten the Dragoons control the battlefield at the end of things).  Then water that down by the number of mechs in a House army (as low as I go on the table is 1%, which when considering Kurita mechs is still something like 75 mechs).

There's plenty of room for an individual to be driving around an Imp or what have you, but in a RAT context it doesn't make sense: the numbers just don't work out.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Sir Chaos on 20 March 2013, 18:08:25
I sort everything in the tables in BV order, so that "Clan Specific" entry would have to be all over the place, to account for the different BV positions each Clan-specific mech is.

I think in some cases, BV should be damned for where a unit appears on the table - for example, the 3025 DCMS considers the Dragon THE most prestigious mech in their arsenal, so it should be on the upper end of the table where better- equipped units receive more of it.

Also, may I suggest a "Special/Custom/Prototype" entry, maybe in the 990-1000 slot, for very rate mechs that aren´t numerous enough for the RATs - rare salvaged/captured units, prototypes, custom variants or configurations, stuff like that.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: FawcettE on 07 April 2013, 07:31:51
Hello :)

... can't find them by search, 2 things from me:

1. BigDuke66's random assignment Generator, where exactly can I find it? :)

2. In the "Historical: War Of '39" RATs, the Exterminator 4A is mentioned as available for the Federated Suns. You didn't include it, for some reason?

greetings from Germany ;)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 07 April 2013, 15:04:28
1. BigDuke66's random assignment Generator, where exactly can I find it? :)

It's in the first post: extra #2.  Be aware that he based his work on a slightly older version of my tables (8.07) and hasn't updated yet, so there's a few small things that are different.

Quote
2. In the "Historical: War Of '39" RATs, the Exterminator 4A is mentioned as available for the Federated Suns. You didn't include it, for some reason?

This is a reference to TR3025 Revised, which had the downgraded versions of the Exterminator and the other formerly TR2750 mechs.  That book however lacked any deployment info for those machines, so the authors of War of 3039 could feel free to put them wherever.  TR3039 came out after both of those books, and defined the Exterminator downgrade as a machine of which only two dozen were made in 3007, none of which survived the 4th Succession War.  New works trump old, so the War of 3039 RAT is obsolete when contradicted by later books.

Quote
greetings from Germany ;)

And to you. :)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 08 April 2013, 10:08:44
Yea simply forgot to proceed with my conversion to the OpenOffice file type, I was tired of MS Office and switched to LibreOffice.
I'm now reworking the tables.

One error I found:
Mechs Diamond Sharks
804   852   Black Hawk (Nova) [50]
926   975   Isorla: Major Rival

A whole between the "Black Hawk (Nova) [50]" and the "Isorla: Major Rival" entry.
Is it the Fenris C? You mentioned something for 8.1
-   added missing Fenris C to Diamond Shark tables
but I can't find the Fenris C on the table.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 08 April 2013, 12:19:55
That's hilarious: thanks for the catch.

The table should read:

001-024
025-061
062-085
086-146
147-183
184-220
221-269
270-342
343-379
380-403
404-500
501-537
538-574
575-671
672-803
804-852
853-925
926-975
976-000

with the Fenris C being the very first entry and the rest of the table proceeding as written.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 09 April 2013, 01:39:24
Another on the Davion 3039 mech table:
527   580   UM-R60 Urbanmech [30]**   54
585   584   SDR-5D Spider [30]   0
596   595   COM-2D Commando [25]   0
596   606   LCT-1E Locust [20]   11

I guess the bold ones don't fit.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 09 April 2013, 04:11:05
I'll get to this in the next day or two - I'm out of town at the moment.  Thanks.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 11 April 2013, 05:01:01
Okay, replace those two with:

581-584
585-595
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 11 April 2013, 23:56:22
Thanks, do you plan to upload a corrected pdf?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 12 April 2013, 01:37:01
I keep dreaming of a new version that would also have the fixes, so we'll see.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: pensiveswetness on 16 April 2013, 10:17:17
you mean, i should just print the damn thing and pen/ink/white out?  [blank]Well i do have a 9.997-year old artist, i could always get her to do the fixes on paper...  >:D
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 April 2013, 16:35:49
OK here are the "3028-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables 8.2" for Mechs and Vehicles as OpenOffice Calc file with the latest corrections form XOTL.
Didn't do PDFs this time as Libre Office has too few options to make them look good, maybe someone else has better software for doing this.

http://www31.zippyshare.com/v/56667663/file.html
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 30 April 2013, 10:58:26
Awesome: thanks a lot Duke.

Can you verify that the following file has captured everything in your original, intact?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357573/3028-3050%20Faction%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%208.2%20MECHS.xlsx
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357573/3028-3050%20Faction%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%208.2%20VEHICLES.xlsx

Excel 2010 complained about lost content when trying to open the originals, but in converting them to .xlsx it warned that some data may have been lost.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Wrangler on 30 April 2013, 14:08:13
Thanks for keepiong this going, Xotl.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 30 April 2013, 17:48:30
I tested them with the latest LibreOffice version and it seems that the drop down menus on the table page & generator page don't work so your not going to get any results out of them, also the diagrams are messed up(background missing, sizes changed, text overlapping, etc.) and the colors of the page tabs are missing.
Besides that nothing seems to miss.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: greywolf79 on 03 May 2013, 17:10:18
I know not how to make it look good - but I have adobe acrobat pro 11 and office enterprise 2007 edition. If someone wants to guide me through it and provide any template type items for it to look good, I will work on it some (as I am able to anyway).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 04 May 2013, 00:35:46
Well doesn't have to look pretty, just try it using my files and make each tab on one page, I wonder if that will look OK at all as the Office files Xotl uploaded had the diagrams messed up a bit si I'm afraid that will be in the PDFs too.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: greywolf79 on 05 May 2013, 21:10:55
I tested them with the latest LibreOffice version and it seems that the drop down menus on the table page & generator page don't work so your not going to get any results out of them, also the diagrams are messed up(background missing, sizes changed, text overlapping, etc.) and the colors of the page tabs are missing.
Besides that nothing seems to miss.

I think the problem is compatibility... I opened your files in office 2010 and it gave me error messages for some thing - will have to load it again to see the specifics again. But it could just be that it is a problem with MS files not going into the non-MS systems.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 06 May 2013, 01:05:59
Or maybe that Office 2010 is a bit too old, release was 2010 and not sure if any standards for the OpenOffice filetypes changed meanwhile so that O2010 has problems with a file that is made by a current LibreOffice version with current OpenOffice standards.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: McSlayer on 13 June 2013, 09:05:46
Hey... dumb question.. but how come no one has created a IS House table for Liao, Kurita, Davion, Steiner, and Mark for 3050 or 3052, etc....

Why is there only a house table for 3039?

What if some of us get tired of introductory tech house mechs?

I am looking for a very complete tables with all mechs in that era... not just a random 2d6 table either.

Anyone know where I should look?

Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: FawcettE on 13 June 2013, 10:01:29
To be honest, I've downloaded this great table  O0 ,...
but didn't use it already. For practical use (not for scientific ;) ) the official tables seem adequate.
I've copied them from Field Manuals, Era Reports, Historicals, Sourcebooks, etc.
We use the basic Field Manual series for battles/campaigns around 3052-3061, the Field Manual: Updates tables for battles before the Jihad era and in early Jihad. There are more, PN me if you are interested.

To create a scientific usable  >:D table requires millions of real life time, I imagine. Could be the reason why this one is only available for 3039. (But I've to admit, the main body of players araound me have grown tired of playing Introduction timeline too ...  O:-) )
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Netzilla on 13 June 2013, 16:27:45
Basically, it just boils down to being a lot of work being done in the creator's spare time.  Also, as the timeline advances, the number of potential units to include in the table grows significantly (as you can still find plenty of intro tech on the battlefield in the 3050s), so the tables get more complicated and harder to complete.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: pensiveswetness on 13 June 2013, 22:26:23
Basically, it just boils down to being a lot of work being done in the creator's spare time.  Also, as the timeline advances, the number of potential units to include in the table grows significantly (as you can still find plenty of intro tech on the battlefield in the 3050s), so the tables get more complicated and harder to complete.

well because the lists are made from the POV of BV2, and specific varients common to a faction, i sorta would imagine the 3052 list would be split between older legacy models and well as models from TRO 3050u, in the same fashion that of 3039 table to DCMS and DCMS 'A-rated' tables. the one question and difficulty with this is because what % of machines were new built by each faction as opposed to older models rebuilt with the upgrade kits... and toss in how many units were destroyed or captured by the clans... so yeah, it aint easy and just having the tables he made now is awesome enough LOL...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: EthrDemon on 20 September 2013, 15:45:09
I see someone else already caught the 3039 Davion Spider/Commando overlap issue, but I haven't seen any comments about the 3039 Kurita one:

424-486 UM-R60 Urbanmech [30]**
487-486 THE-S Thorn [20]
487-499 HSR-300-D Hussar [30]

Aware?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 20 September 2013, 16:29:39
My main computers (yes, plural) have both died, but when I get the chance I'll at the very least up a new version with these typos corrected and a small quirk update.

Thanks for the catches.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: beachhead1985 on 21 September 2013, 16:12:05
My main computers (yes, plural) have both died, but when I get the chance I'll at the very least up a new version with these typos corrected and a small quirk update.

Thanks for the catches.

rock on and keep up the good work!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: EthrDemon on 21 September 2013, 21:01:01
Caught one more typo, Clan Diamond Shark:

672-803  Black Hawk (Nova) A [50]
804-852  Black Hawk (Nova) [50]
926-975  Isorla: Major Rival
976-000  Isorla: Other Clan

Good luck with the computer issues, we really appreciate the work you're doing.




Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 22 September 2013, 01:18:15
Posted that already here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,1219.msg653282.html#msg653282
Below that post is also Xotls fix.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: EthrDemon on 28 September 2013, 01:38:55
Thanks BD66, missed that previous post.

Also, I'm just about finished getting these tables transcribed into Google Docs, I can share that if anyone is interested as long as it's ok with Xotl
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 01 October 2013, 22:18:03
While I don't mind private sharing with friends, I'm asking that you don't share this publicly, since as I understand it I wouldn't have control over the file.  I've seen too many projects out there with multiple obsolete versions floating around because of their being hosted on various sites that the creator can't access.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: EthrDemon on 04 October 2013, 12:45:08
No problem, that's why I asked first.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 14 January 2014, 15:31:30
Howdy.  I'm looking to update, and as part of that I have to take the new Quirks into account.  If anyone has any suggestions for older units that fit the new Quirks featured in TR 3145/RS 3145 that would be appreciated.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Garner on 14 January 2014, 15:42:59
What sort of timeframe do we have for submissions, Xotl? Can't promise I'll be able to make any worthwhile contributions, but I'd be honoured to assist if I can.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 14 January 2014, 16:13:01
Whatever it takes, really - you're helping me out here, after all.  There's always future updates if suggestions mix the next one.

All I suggest is be a bit conservative.  For example, Battlefists isn't just mechs with fists; it needs to have spiky things or be especially clublike or have some reference in the text to the mech intended to brawl - that sort of thing.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: pensiveswetness on 14 January 2014, 18:20:50
i'm not sure any of the TRO 3145 quirks apply to 3025/3039/3050 era units. (maybe the Compact 'mech quirk applies to the Vulcan, which already possesses the Narrow/Low Profile quirk)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 14 January 2014, 18:25:19
Maybe not (well, we know the Awesome has Battlefists), but for my Quirks lists I've covered every Technical Readout.  So, mechs above 3050 are fair game here too.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: pensiveswetness on 14 January 2014, 18:32:17
you mean your working on 3055 and 3058 lists now? which TRO's are you looking for socitiations? wouldn't be better to run poles on particular mechs for specific quirks?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 14 January 2014, 18:40:40
I'm working on 3050 and 3057 RATs.  But my Quirk lists have always been for all eras, so for the quirks lists I'm looking for any mech from any source or faction in any time period that the new quirks apply to.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: JeremyA on 09 February 2014, 16:49:59
Xotl, your work is amazing, thank you so much!
Forgive me if you've already dealt with this, or if it is unsubstantiated, I'm late to the party and only browsed through the ten pages of history. 

I read on Encyclopedia Battletech that the Mackie 6S had the best sensors ever designed in the Inner Sphere.  It didn't seem to mean "up to that time" but I guess that could be inferred because of later designs noted in turn for their own sensors capabilities as being superior.  Perhaps it would simply be a time based quirk?  Improved Sensors until a given year, maybe when the Osts came out or something?  I don't know if it is canon fluff since I couldn't find it anywhere else, and their Mackie 5S is waay off in the weapons department.

I'm working on a project of my own starting with the first 'Mech and working forward, hence my obsession with the Mackie, and I couldn't find an answer elsewhere. 

Thank you!
Jeremy
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 10 February 2014, 16:07:49
I would definitely consider it "up to that time", if I was placing quirks for it.  As for what year it would get cut off, I try not to delve into that level of detail, as it can only ever be pure supposition, and I prefer to have at least some basis for the decision I make, even if shaky.

Thanks for your interest!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: JeremyA on 14 February 2014, 14:05:58
Upon further investigation I discovered the same line on Solaris 7's 'standard' MSK-6S build with fluff.  So I'm finally confident that it's substantiated. :D  I did wind up with another question though... The PPC was first introduced by the Terren Hegemony in 2460, but the Mackie MSK-5S was introduced in 2439.  I didn't catch a mention of the PPC being an early prototype and it had to have been produced in large enough quantities for all the 5Ss built by the Hegemony.  XTRO Primitives Vol I implies strongly that the TH constructed many 5Ss between 2439 and (shortly before) 2459.  I'm leaning toward naming it a prototype weapon, but having the status of mass-produced leaves me a bit uncomfortable with that... any other ideas?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Scotty on 14 February 2014, 14:15:10
Check to make sure the PPC introduction date hasn't been errata'd.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: JeremyA on 14 February 2014, 14:28:42
I spent some time checking and didn't find any errata'd changes to the introductory date.  But Ill investigate further later in the day.  Thank you!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 14 February 2014, 15:33:28
Current PPC date is still 2460, so I'll check on this.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 14 February 2014, 19:25:38
It turns out this was already noted earlier.  There's a solution to this, but it will have to wait for a later product.

Thanks!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: HMS_Swiftsure on 15 February 2014, 03:56:52
Xotl, I have a ton of respect for you in general, but especially considering that you're tackling RATs for the IS 3050+. 

I ended up making a 3056 RAT out of faulty logic(all factories produce 'Mechs at the same rate, rite?), probably incomplete data(Sarna is probably not the end-all source for factory locations and production outputs), and leaps of logic that could propel a man across the Grand Canyon(variant[s/production], how do they work?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56997382/3056_force_setup.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56997382/3056_force_setup.pdf)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56997382/3056Workbook.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56997382/3056Workbook.pdf)

As you can see, the end result is dodgy.  It relies upon your 3039 tables to generate unupgraded forces, which is probably all sorts of wrong for 3056 use.  About the only nice thing is the ability to 'dial in' your specific forces upgrade percentage.

We've been having fun with it, but once your version comes out we'll be dumping this hodgepodge version with enthusiasm.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 15 February 2014, 04:10:13
Cool - it's nice to see someone run with what I had.  I'm still poking away at newer tables, slowly but surely: errata and the Alpha Strike point system have occupied my time (plus a surprise, though that's a long way off).

Here's my list of the new units that will be added for 3050 and 3057.  It's complete as far as I know (though if anything is missing let me know), but as you can see I haven't really started on Av yet.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357573/3050-57.xlsx
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 24 February 2014, 04:30:19
So, as I continue to chip away at these things, I keep butting up against one item that is really odd.  Namely, the oddball FedCom regiment numbers that occur in 3050.

Between 3039 and 3050, regiments under FedSuns nominal command drop by ten, from 87.33 to 77.33.

Meanwhile, regiments under Lyran nominal command increase a touch.  That is, they climb from 67.33 to 112.

Now, even if we accept that the missing 10 Davion regiments are merely administratively lost, i.e., they were transferred to Lyran command, we're still left with 35 fresh regiments for the Lyrans in 3050.  Am I reading the 20 Year Update tables right?  Can anyone add any further background to this?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Blacknova on 24 February 2014, 04:38:42
When you add in the new March Militia and Training Commands for the LCAF and the fact that the Sarna March is part of the Lyran State command and not the Suns State command, it makes more sense.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: HMS_Swiftsure on 24 February 2014, 04:40:59
Just a thought - could this increase be attributed to adoption of combined arms formations?  A concept lifted from the folks to the galactic southeast?

I've got no sources to back this up, just a feeling.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 24 February 2014, 05:48:26
No, only 'Mech commands are ever listed
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 28 February 2014, 12:04:36
Doing a recount using a better methodology I have a total of 104 which, while still a huge increase, is a bit better.

Liao and Kurita 3050 tables are done, moving onto the rest.  Should be good for a release next week.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 February 2014, 12:13:08
Well the 20YU are a bit unclear compared to the 39 tables as they show the deployment and mix all units including mercenaries into it, Wo39 collects the different formations and gives a better overview what regiments exist.
A quick look showed me that the main increase seems to be from all the new Militia regiments, in Wo39 there were only 2 but by 3050 the LC seems to be filled up into every corner with Militas.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 28 February 2014, 12:16:47
Yeah: it seems the entire industrial output of both the Davion and Steiner halves for ten years went into garrisoning the hell out of Steiner space.  It's the reason why Steiner is going to have an A-rated table, like I used for Kurita in 3039: too many militia units to realistically put all machines on the same table for them.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 February 2014, 16:06:06
Good her some numbers maybe they are useful to you, I compared the Wo39 table with that from the 20YU but only Steiner and Davion as the listing on Wo39 isn't complete for Mercs & FWL, there is nothing for Periphery and I'm also not sure if Liao is complete, only other one that I think is complete is Kurita so if you want something checked there tell me.

First some numbers from Wo39:
Steiner Units:
29 RCTs
29 Mech Reg.(including the 5 Tikonov Republican Guards)
2 Mech Bat.(Winfields Brigade)
6 Militia Reg.
6 Training Bat.
2 Training Grp.(not sure what the size of these "Groups" are)

Davion Units
44 RCTs(including 6 FedCom RCTs)
11 Mech Reg.
24 Militia Reg.
5 Academy Bat.
10 Training Bat.


Now changes compared to Wo39
New Steiner Units
26 Militia Units
Corey SMM
Kaifeng SMM
Nanking SMM
Hot Springs TMM
Wotan TMM
Twycross TMM
Laurent TMM
Koniz TMM
Kelenfold TMM
Accrington SMM
Alexandria SMM
Lyons SMM
Denebola SMM
Gacrux SMM
Nekkar SMM
Dar-es-Salaam TMM
Dixie TMM
Penobscot TMM
Teyvarab PMM
Florida PMM
Alekseyevka PMM
Qanatir PMM
Neerabup PMM
Chahar PMM
Carlisle DMM
Alarion DMM

New Davion Units
6 FedCom RCTs
10th FedCom RCT
8th FedCom RCT
9th FedCom RCT
12th FedCom RCT
11th FedCom RCT
7th FedCom RCT
I listed them as Davion units because they are also under Davion listed on the Wo39 tables.


Changes on Steiner units
4 lost RCT status:
15th Arcturan Guards
3rd Donegal Guards
11th Donegal Guards
13th Donegal Guards

9 gained RCT status:
8th Arcturan Guards
11th Arcturan Guards
24th Arcturan Guards
10th Donegal Guards
12th Donegal Guards
1st Lyran Guards
11th Lyran Guards
19th Lyran Guards
30th Lyran Guards

Other changes:
Winfield’s Brigade is now listed as Winfield’s Regiment so it's likely that a 3rd battalion was added.

Changes on Davion Units
1 lost RCT status:
12th Deneb Light Cavalry

Errors while comparing:
The 5th Syrtis Fusiliers RCT is twice on the 20YU list, it's likely that the entry under Steiner command on Bora is wrong, so either that entry shows a new regiment(as no old is missing from Wo39) or it's simply an entry that can be ignored.


A note on the RCT changes, at that time typos are not unlikely and an RCT at the end of the name is easily added or deleted so be careful and don't depend to much on it unless conformed by other sources.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 February 2014, 16:14:28
BTW not sure how you counted and recounted the other numbers but what surely mixes them up from the 20YU is that a bunch of Steiner units are now under Davion and even more Davion units under Steiner command.

10 Steiner units serve under Davion command and another unit is stationed in the St. Ives Compact.
28 Davion units serve under Steiner command, that includes 10 FedCom RCTs and another unit is stationed in the St. Ives Compact.
The higher Davion number(even without the FeCom RCTs) is surely from the fact that the Sarna March is under Steiner Command.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 February 2014, 16:23:36
And a note on production, isn't it likely that the new technologies coming in the 30's and 40's lead to frontline units getting these new mechs and upgrade packages and relocate their equipment that is either not upgradeable or too old to the militias?
So maybe we see the Steiner & Davion frontline units with new tech equipment and the new militas more on the level on 3025-3030.
Also a slight shift could be possible, lets say Steiner produces more mechs especially with the Sarna factories now also working for Steiner(at least I think so), Steiner could contribute more to improving Davions frontline units while Davion could give their old stuff to the new Steiner Militias, so maybe we see a stronger presence of Davion equipment in the new Steiner Militias.
Well these are just some quick ideas by me, nothing that I can support by an official source.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Obvious on 03 March 2014, 00:53:17
If anyone is using the 3050 Clan mech tables in MegaMek, I generated a new version that should be closer to working as intended.

The problem with the set included in MegaMek currently is that it uses IS mechs as salvage even though the tables are supposed to be for front-line Clan units.  Instead of having Rival Clan and Other Clan salvage, they have a lot of IS salvage.  And the salvage is at a much higher rate than it is supposed to be.  ('A' rated units have almost half of their mechs coming from IS salvage, for example.)


Files + sloppy notes in this thread:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,37368.msg873363.html#msg873363

If I used the wrong clans as rivals or has other issues, let me know so I can fix it.  (Or download the the code from github and fix it yourself.)
It uses the ER 3052 tables for clans with no 3050 entry.  The files generated for those clans are probably not too useful, but they are included anyways.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: SCC on 03 March 2014, 01:06:16
For the Quirks you asked about before, I'd give ALL Clan 'Mechs and vehicles (Even the Omni's) the Easy to Maintain, Fast Reload and Modular Weapons Quirks to reflect the increased levels of standardization in the Clan industrial sector and in the 'Mechs design. Of course that only applies when dealing with CLAN techs, instead Difficult To Maintain and Non-Standard Parts would apply when these machines are in the hands of IS techs
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Taskaroo on 27 April 2014, 14:46:59
I have a question regarding the excellent RAT posted by XOTL.

While this is briefly explained in the first post, I'm not quite clear on the "rarity" section of each faction. 

For instance, some tables might list a number such as "152" on the graph out of 350, next to a 'Mech Variant name.  Is this supposed to represent a rough percentage of a 'Mech type available?  "43% Light Lances of *Faction Name* consist of *Mech X*" ?

Also, has there been any updates regarding the 3050 and 3057 time frame?  I'm eager to see the work/research done for a list of those Era's as well.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Warpimp on 27 April 2014, 14:52:05
I would love to volunteer my time and effort to the 3050 project. 3025 is finally starting to get stale, and the published RATs get so dull, so quick that they are not even really that fun to use anymore. xotl has spoiled me.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 28 April 2014, 00:12:56
I got really close to the end of the 3050 tables, but then the twin double of end-of-term and convention season hit which has eaten the past month or so.  I should have some time once May starts, though I'll be gone for June and July on a research trip as well.

Real life just keeps getting busier for me, I'm afraid.

Taskaroo: can you give an example of what you're referring to - as in, with page number and direct reference and such?  Are you talking about the excel spreadsheet, or my tables?  The tables are made by another, so I wouldn't be able to help you there.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: truetanker on 28 April 2014, 19:41:03
Xtol:

Love your tables, use them almost every time I need stuff. And I love your advatar, Spider Jerusalem for the win!

TT
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Wrangler on 28 April 2014, 20:28:47
Xtol, your Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables are amazing work.

I wish they could be intrigrated into MegaMek.  Its truely, something.

Thank You!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Taskaroo on 28 April 2014, 21:05:10
Taskaroo: can you give an example of what you're referring to - as in, with page number and direct reference and such?  Are you talking about the excel spreadsheet, or my tables?

Hello Xotl,

What I refer to are the rarity parts of the faction tables, like this showing a graph:

(http://i.imgur.com/fFDqNRF.jpg)

I understand that you made these on a 10 point scale and they aren't entirely representative of canon (but close enough), but let's say if I was going to make a campaign to determine, for instance, how much "supply" I start with for Light 'Mechs of a certain faction, how would this be calculated?  Can I gain a percentage simply by dividing, let's say the number given to a STG-3R Stinger (152) out of 160 - does this mean 95% of Light 'Mechs available would be Stingers?  Or does it refer to how common it would be?  I'm trying to determine how I can use these scales for campaign building.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: BigDuke66 on 28 April 2014, 22:16:43
As I made the office version of XOTLs tables let me answer this.
XOTLs tables are based on a "dice range" of 1000, my tables now show the area in these D1000 range that is covered be a mech so taking your question as example, out of 1000 light mechs 152 would be STG-3R Stinger, if you want you can also see it as percentage but the last digit is always a fraction of a full percent.
Again taking your example 152 would be 15,2% and small numbers like the FLC-4N Falcon would be 0,5%.

I hope that helps.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Netzilla on 29 April 2014, 12:04:08
Xtol, your Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables are amazing work.

I wish they could be intrigrated into MegaMek.  Its truely, something.

Thank You!

Look under "/data/rat/unofficial".
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Wrangler on 29 April 2014, 17:36:02
Look under "/data/rat/unofficial".
Thank for dat. I didn't realize it was hidden in there!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Frabby on 01 May 2014, 07:09:02
Two minor points about the current document:

Technically, a d1000 is not a "percentile" roll (which is what you write in your introduction). Suggest to delete the word "percentile".

More importantly, what about the XTRO:Succession Wars designs?

I think the Steiner 3028 RAT should include the ZEU-6Y and the Marik 3028 table should include the FLE-14.

The CTF-0X may or may not belong on the list, though I think not, for two reasons: It apparently wasn't built in any notable numbers after all, the design being shelved after "one shipment" of prototypes. Given Tikonov's production capacity I suppose a shipment is around a company of CTF-0X, not enough to make it onto a RAT. The other point is that those few that existed were obviously exclusively used for special forces, and not available to the CCAF in general.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Xotl on 01 May 2014, 13:45:31
Percentile deleted.

I created the Zeus, so I can tell you for sure it was a failure and not enough were built to matter.  The Cataphract is similarly rare I think.

But the FLE-14 I think could make it in at Rarity 1 I think, though it would disappear off the tables fairly soon.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Laconian on 05 May 2014, 23:19:52
Looks neat. Tagged for later reference.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Xotl on 07 May 2014, 14:25:46
After a couple of years off, here’s v9.0:

-   Quirk updates
-   Minor corrections to faction lists
-   Added Mercury to Star League Regular tables (thanks MadCap)
-   Added the 75-ton Stalker to all Inner Sphere tables
-   Added the 15 ton Flea from XTR Succession Wars Vol. 1 to Marik and Periphery General (thanks Frabby)
-   Corrected 3050 regiment numbers for the Federated Commonwealth (thanks Anons 1 & 2), added 3145 details

-   Oh yeah, and new 3050 Inner Sphere Mech tables

They look fairly simple, but there's a bit of behind-the-scenes stuff you should know.

First, this is the table where unit types begin to go extinct, at least for certain Houses.  By "extinct" I mean no longer available in large enough quantities to meet the requirements for Av in that faction.  Those Falcons and Clints are on borrowed time.

Second, I have a running tally of the actual number of each mech in service in each House.  This does not appear in the public tables, as it's merely guesswork on my part and I don't want to go down that road.  The reason I'm telling you about it is because this is what I use to keep each iteration of the tables internally consistent.  By keeping a per-unit count, I can ensure that over time, those units that are no longer in production slowly are reduced in numbers.  I don't worry about it for units that are still somehow conceivably available to that House, but for things like Urbanmechs and Ostscouts it means that, whether the Av actually changes or not for a given unit there will be fewer such units in each table release, representing attrition over time.  For example, by my internal counter the Kuritan 3039 army had 177 Spider -5Vs, at Av 6.  The 3050 tables still have Av 6, but the count is now down to 171.  They'll lose a bunch more Spiders in the 3057 tables, and probably drop to Av 5 then.  So, long story short, even if it's not visible, each House is slowly bleeding away its non-replaceable machines.  It's not fast, because many of these machines still show up in distant militias in 3085, but it will definitely be noticeable over time.

Steiner has two tables, the only House to do so.  That's because they add almost three dozen regiments to their faction total between 3039 and 3050, and so I felt the need to separate things out to ensure all that new construction was represented properly.  The way their two tables are structured, A&B and C&D, will be the way I'll be handling every House in the 3057 tables.

Liao has the most extinctions, the result of the shellacking they took in 3028, and all their new construction since then.  It makes their tables a bit dull for now, but that's the way it is.  They'll get more interesting soon enough.

As always, feedback is greatly appreciated, especially in these early stages of a major new release.  If I missed a unit, or a reference to hard numbers, or anything else relevant, I want to know about it.  Thanks!


P.S. One final note: the Faction Lists, which list all the Av numbers, are still blank, simply because it's been so long since I had to do that that I've forgotten how I originally automated that process in Excel, and there's no way I'm going back to doing it by hand.  I'll put out another update with 3050 Avs once I manage to figure out how the hell to do so.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 07 May 2014, 14:45:30
Those Falcons and Clints are on borrowed time.

Given how much I love both of those mechs its a good thing variants of both designs go back into production in the middle/late 3050's and last until at least the late 3060's.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Sir Chaos on 07 May 2014, 15:21:57
Thank you for that.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: GreekFire on 07 May 2014, 16:26:09
Awesome stuff, Xotl. Thanks for putting so much hard work into this, it's really an amazing Btech resource.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Wildonion on 07 May 2014, 17:52:36
Thanks for all of your hard work, Xotl!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Wrangler on 07 May 2014, 18:05:46
Xotl, are you going to do other eras?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Xotl on 07 May 2014, 18:11:03
3057 is next.  No idea as to an ETA.  I need to redo the vehicle tables I think before I move on to the future.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: BigDuke66 on 07 May 2014, 19:07:53
Yea thanks for all the hard work.  O0
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Wrangler on 07 May 2014, 19:59:56
3057 is next.  No idea as to an ETA.  I need to redo the vehicle tables I think before I move on to the future.
Super Cool!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: pensiveswetness on 08 May 2014, 14:53:22
Super Cool!

with this newest version of the tables, is it safe to delete the previous version i have saved?  O0 TUVM btw, mate.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 08 May 2014, 15:28:34
3057 is next.  No idea as to an ETA.  I need to redo the vehicle tables I think before I move on to the future.

Good to know, its a cracking resource  O0
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: beachhead1985 on 08 May 2014, 16:00:52
Nice!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Draco on 12 May 2014, 02:41:35
Heads up, Federated Suns 3050 Light table, there's a gap between 571-573 SDR-5D Spider and 577-599 COM-2D Commando. Something supposed to go there, or just one of hose two supposed to be bigger?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Xotl on 12 May 2014, 05:31:34
Cool, thanks for the catch.  There's supposed to be a handful of Commando -3As filling that gap.  I'll up a fixed version tomorrow.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 9 Apr v8.2
Post by: Frabby on 12 May 2014, 06:38:07
I created the Zeus, so I can tell you for sure it was a failure and not enough were built to matter.  The Cataphract is similarly rare I think.
Agree on the Cataphract. Not so sure about the ZEU-6Y though, seeing how
1) the writeup concludes with an editor's note saying (paraphrased) that despite ComStar's possibly deliberately misleading negative evaluation the ZEU-6Y Zeus was a fairly successful experiment that was in fact built in limited numbers - enough so that it should have been mentioned in TRO3025;
2) "extinct" designs such as the Falcon are in fact still present on the tables;
3) if 171-177 Spiders are enough to warrant an Av6 in the Draconis Combine, even if only 10 ZEU-6Y were built I reckon it should warrant Av1 in the Lyran Commonwealth. Compare to perhaps 2-3 Victor-9S which I agree may not be notable enough to matter in the big picture.

( and 4), I so want to see the ZEU-6Y as a regular deployment unit! ;) )

PS: Yes I do realize that I'm arguing against the person who wrote the fluff text about how it should be interpreted. That doesn't put me off; I'm a lawyer and I like a challenge.

Edit: For clarity - I'm arguing for the Zeus to be included here, not the Cataphract
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: nckestrel on 12 May 2014, 10:39:28
There's not even confirmation that the CTF-0X actually existed :).
My intention was that the CTF-0X's used on St. Ives were all destroyed, causing the CCAF to view CTF's as too limited a platform to carry their expensive, prototype EW gear.  The Cataphracts draw too much fire and can't get away.  The CCAF went with stealth rather than combat disruption as the best use for their EW.
If that makes any sense..
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Frabby on 12 May 2014, 11:20:32
Umm, yeah... like I wrote I agree with the Cataphract not being in the tables; I was actually talking about the ZEU-6Y Zeus variant carrying a Blazer.  :)

(Nevertheless, I enjoyed that Cataphract entry very much, so kudos for that!)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: mdauben on 12 May 2014, 11:41:14
3057 is next.  No idea as to an ETA.  I need to redo the vehicle tables I think before I move on to the future.
Thanks for all the hard work on this, Xotl!   O0
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Xotl on 12 May 2014, 11:46:35
Yes, it was built in (very) limited numbers (Defiance had that capacity, after all), but In this case it's not just a matter of numbers.  The Zeus melted when used.  This rather precluded its use in the field.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Xotl on 12 May 2014, 11:54:08
Also, corrected version 9.01 uploaded that fixes the missing Davion light mech issue.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: nckestrel on 12 May 2014, 12:12:20
Umm, yeah... like I wrote I agree with the Cataphract not being in the tables; I was actually talking about the ZEU-6Y Zeus variant carrying a Blazer.  :)

(Nevertheless, I enjoyed that Cataphract entry very much, so kudos for that!)

Heh, there was so much background work done on that one entry...I hate not having it all out there ;). 
(ok, maybe not a lot for many BattleTech writers, but as a purely amateur writer, it was a great deal of background work for me..)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.0
Post by: Sir Chaos on 12 May 2014, 12:55:24
The Zeus melted when used.  This rather precluded its use in the field.
:o

Yes, I can see why they would come to that conclusion.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Daryk on 12 May 2014, 13:04:33
So, what will it take to get a unit with a Blazer as a regular deployment unit?  ::)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Xotl on 12 May 2014, 13:18:56
If I have my way, you'll see something in a couple of years.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Daryk on 12 May 2014, 13:37:18
As if you weren't already my hero! O0

Now, to find someone to fix the Mark VII... :P
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: SCC on 14 May 2014, 21:54:28
About those Av numbers, are they fixed or proportional? Because there's like 5 vehicles for every 'Mech, and more 'Mech designs then vehicle ones
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Xotl on 14 May 2014, 22:08:50
Definitely proportional, although I didn't even bother trying to cross-proportion between mechs and vehicles, as we have no canon numbers for vehicles.

But Av 5 means a lot more for the Commonwealth than it does the Confederation.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: BigDuke66 on 15 May 2014, 01:01:54
A bit feedback on the house regiment numbers.

Liao has between 16.33 and 19 regiments in 3050.
16.33 is with each Warriorhouse having 1 Mechbat. and 19 is when each Warriorhouse has 2 Mechbat..
I know that 20YU says 2 Bat. but I'm not sure if really 2 Mechbat. are meant because the Warriorhouses consisted always out of 1 Mechbat. and 1 Infantrybat., maybe someone knows if they kept it that way or changed it.

Steiner has 93.66 in 3050, the .66 are from the 2 Training Groups, you counted them as 1/3 already on the 3039 column so I did the same here.
These are pure Steiner units(no mercs) but with the 5 Republican Regiments of Tikonov and the 2 Training Groups are from Sarna and Tikonov too but all are incorporated into the Lyran Commonwealth State Command.

Marik has 55 in 3050, maybe 56 is just a typo.

Davion has 78.33 in 3028 and 93.33 in 3050.
Just pure Davion units without mercs and St. Ives units.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: SCC on 15 May 2014, 01:20:15
Big Duke, I thought the Warrior House each had full regiments.

And I've noticed something weird on page 66, while there aren't vehicle Av numbers given on the pages that follow there are adjustment numbers for them given, for example:
Capellan Confederation
Battlemaster -1
Cataphract -1X +4, -2X +4
Centurion -1
Cronus CNS-3M 1
Hunchback HBK-4SP 1
Raven +2, RVN-3X 1, RVN-4X 2
Thunderbolt -2
Drillson 4
Po 7
Skulker +1
Zhukov 5
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Frabby on 15 May 2014, 03:25:40
The Capellan Warrior Houses typically have one 'Mech battalion, one or two of them have two. They are not full  'Mech regiments.
However, they technically aren't part of the CCAF in the first place; they are a special case and quite different from the Capellan Confederation at large.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Draco on 20 May 2014, 01:01:32
Grim tidings, fans-of-tables, another gap has been found.
On Marik 3050 Heavy there's a gap between 684-686 BL-7-KNT-L Black Knight and 693-712 GHR-5H Grasshopper. 0.6% of Marik heavy 'mech pilots are left dispossessed as a result! DCMS advisers, visiting as part of the Kapetyn agreements, won't stop going on about dedication to number puzzles.

Or maybe it's where the CRD-5M Crusader, absent from the 3050 list, will go.

As an aside, is anyone else annoyed that the captcha won't accept 'negative, I am a meat popsicle' as a correct answer to the question 'Are you human'? Mods, you're dropping the ball here.

* Also, just noticed the JM6-S appears twice on the Capellan 3050 Heavy table. It's just a double listing though, if you delete the extra one the numbers work out.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Xotl on 20 May 2014, 02:01:07
A bit feedback on the house regiment numbers.

Liao has between 16.33 and 19 regiments in 3050.
16.33 is with each Warriorhouse having 1 Mechbat. and 19 is when each Warriorhouse has 2 Mechbat..
I know that 20YU says 2 Bat. but I'm not sure if really 2 Mechbat. are meant because the Warriorhouses consisted always out of 1 Mechbat. and 1 Infantrybat., maybe someone knows if they kept it that way or changed it.

Steiner has 93.66 in 3050, the .66 are from the 2 Training Groups, you counted them as 1/3 already on the 3039 column so I did the same here.
These are pure Steiner units(no mercs) but with the 5 Republican Regiments of Tikonov and the 2 Training Groups are from Sarna and Tikonov too but all are incorporated into the Lyran Commonwealth State Command.

Marik has 55 in 3050, maybe 56 is just a typo.

Davion has 78.33 in 3028 and 93.33 in 3050.
Just pure Davion units without mercs and St. Ives units.

Do you have something that shows those counts?  I went through 20 Year Update as well, but obviously I've come out with different numbers: I was just wondering if you could show your work for me to check against.

SCC: I have internal numbers for the vehicles I haven't put onto the faction lists yet, but since I plan on redoing all the vehicles anyways that won't show up for a bit anyways.

Dracon: thanks for the catches.  I'll put out a fixed list once I hash out these regiment numbers (and it's the Orion -1M that's missing, by the way).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Netzilla on 20 May 2014, 09:21:22
Just spotted an issue on the Mechs - Draconis Combine (House Kurita) table:

Code: [Select]
424-486  UM-R60 Urbanmech
487-486 THE-S Thorn

Make's it a little tricky to roll the Thorn.  ;)
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: NeonKnight on 20 May 2014, 11:21:07
Just wanted to point out.

Went through the RAT table to organize my mechs into chassis rather than individual makes, and I found no mention of the following mechs:

Hoplite - Only 2750, though the MUL shows the 4D as introduced in 3050, so they should have still been kicking around prior to that.

Annihilator - No mention at all except in the quirks. My own research via Sarna shows it was used by at least the Lyran Commonwealth.

Vehicles - No breakdown after 3039, and no mention at all of VTOLs or Aerospace.

I love this work, especially because the MUL says for anything from Clan invasion or Earlier to use the RAT from TW or other product, which is kinda sad when soo many of those are OOP :(
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Xotl on 20 May 2014, 14:34:33
Just spotted an issue on the Mechs - Draconis Combine (House Kurita) table:

Code: [Select]
424-486  UM-R60 Urbanmech
487-486 THE-S Thorn

Make's it a little tricky to roll the Thorn.  ;)

True. :)  It's a phantom entry: the -S is only for A* tables at that time.  Just delete the mention.

Just wanted to point out.

Went through the RAT table to organize my mechs into chassis rather than individual makes, and I found no mention of the following mechs:

Hoplite - Only 2750, though the MUL shows the 4D as introduced in 3050, so they should have still been kicking around prior to that.

Annihilator - No mention at all except in the quirks. My own research via Sarna shows it was used by at least the Lyran Commonwealth.

Vehicles - No breakdown after 3039, and no mention at all of VTOLs or Aerospace.

I love this work, especially because the MUL says for anything from Clan invasion or Earlier to use the RAT from TW or other product, which is kinda sad when soo many of those are OOP :(

Hoplite: Dragoons only.

Annihilator: Dragoons only.

Vehicles: nothing has been done on them yet, because I have to redo them entirely before advancing to new periods.  Sorry.  VTOLs appear on the vehicle tables, but I'm not doing aerospace at all, as there's not really a lot to work with (i.e. the tables would be boring).

Thanks for your interest.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: BigDuke66 on 21 May 2014, 13:04:56
@Xotl
OK here is an LibreOffice file, I hope you can open it.
I took the units from the 3025 deployments and added the number of battalions in front, I also added new units appearing after 3025 up to 3050.
I took the 3025 list as starting point because that is the only complete list, the lists in the sourcebooks 4th SW and Wo39 don't show the complete picture.
I listed the Mercenary just for completeness on the Davion and Steiner tables but not on Kurita(as there are no mercs), also not on Liao and Marik as they list the Mercs already separately so it's clear that they aren't added to the total amount of house battalions.
I hope you look through how I did it.

Now to sum it up again:
Davion has 78.33 in 3028 and 93.33 in 3050.

Steiner has 93.66 in 3050.

Kurita is new, I missed that one unit consisted only of 1 bat.(5th Sword of Light) so we have 98.33 and NOT 99.

Liao has 16.33 or 19 regiments in 3050 depending on how you count the Warrior Houses, also the 3028 number might be corrected down to 40.33 as I don't think the Death Commando counts as Mechbattalion but again maybe some Liao fan has more insight on this.

Marik has 55 in 3050.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Netzilla on 23 May 2014, 14:00:40
Came across another one on the 3050 Liao Medium Mechs table:

Code: [Select]
072-082 CDA-2A Cicada [40]
083-082 CLNT-2-3T Clint [40]
083-114 BJ-1 Blackjack [45]**

Should the Clint be there or just have a different range?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Xotl on 23 May 2014, 17:55:27
That Clint should not be there - it's now effectively extinct.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Draco on 23 May 2014, 21:35:33
Similar Situation on CC 3050 Light:
757 - 770 LCT-1E Locust
757 - 756 JVN-10N Javelin
though that should probably by 771 - 779 for the Javelin as the next entry starts at 780.

Also, on DC 3050 Light:
267-390 LCT-1V Locust [20]
395-402 LCT-3V Locust [20]
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Warpimp on 23 May 2014, 21:37:54
Has anyone begun to convert this into a MegaMek RAT?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: SCC on 23 May 2014, 22:07:00
Has anyone begun to convert this into a MegaMek RAT?
Previous versions are already MM RATs, I'm guessing their going to wait until Xtol's finished making corrections before they start making changes, or converting again
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Xotl on 24 May 2014, 03:05:44
Thanks for the continued checks guys.  The DC table is missing a -97 Mercury.

New version will be up in a few minutes with the corrections to date.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Netzilla on 25 May 2014, 00:12:17
I've been working on updating the RATs for MM.  That's why I've been finding stuff.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Xotl on 25 May 2014, 04:37:17
Cool - I really appreciate spreading my stuff about.  Be aware that sometimes by fixing the one error it readjusts the numbers on the entire table.  For example, every number on the Marik heavies would have changed after I fixed the Orion -M issue.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Netzilla on 25 May 2014, 08:08:44
Cool - I really appreciate spreading my stuff about.  Be aware that sometimes by fixing the one error it readjusts the numbers on the entire table.  For example, every number on the Marik heavies would have changed after I fixed the Orion -M issue.

 Fortunately, there haven't been too many fixes like that.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 May v9.01
Post by: Davout73 on 26 May 2014, 17:00:34
If you go by the original House Book OOB's, several mech units have 4 battalions of mechs, changing the numbers slightly up.  A Couple of Avalon Hussar Units, the Assault Guards, a couple of Sword of Light regiments...when I was working on my Alt-U I did the same thing for unit counts.

Dav

@Xotl
OK here is an LibreOffice file, I hope you can open it.
I took the units from the 3025 deployments and added the number of battalions in front, I also added new units appearing after 3025 up to 3050.
I took the 3025 list as starting point because that is the only complete list, the lists in the sourcebooks 4th SW and Wo39 don't show the complete picture.
I listed the Mercenary just for completeness on the Davion and Steiner tables but not on Kurita(as there are no mercs), also not on Liao and Marik as they list the Mercs already separately so it's clear that they aren't added to the total amount of house battalions.
I hope you look through how I did it.

Now to sum it up again:
Davion has 78.33 in 3028 and 93.33 in 3050.

Steiner has 93.66 in 3050.

Kurita is new, I missed that one unit consisted only of 1 bat.(5th Sword of Light) so we have 98.33 and NOT 99.

Liao has 16.33 or 19 regiments in 3050 depending on how you count the Warrior Houses, also the 3028 number might be corrected down to 40.33 as I don't think the Death Commando counts as Mechbattalion but again maybe some Liao fan has more insight on this.

Marik has 55 in 3050.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Xotl on 26 May 2014, 22:58:01
Yeah, I will review from scratch - there's some other behind-the-scenes info I'll be checking out when that's ready too.  But it probably won't get done before I take off again for the summer.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Karasu on 30 May 2014, 04:35:00
I notice that the 3050 distribution tables refer back to 3028 for Salvage.  This actually presents the opportunity to randomly roll units that are supposedly extinct by then.  I'm surprised that it doesn't use 3039 by then.

Also, does anyone have suggested weight distribution for the new IS states?  I assume that St Ives starts off as standard, since they are between two states that both used the generic ratios.  However, IIRC they have more heavier production available than lighter, so it might start to skew later.  FRR, on the other hand, probably quite different, with more lights and less mediums combined with more heavy and assault!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Xotl on 02 June 2014, 17:54:15
I notice that the 3050 distribution tables refer back to 3028 for Salvage.  This actually presents the opportunity to randomly roll units that are supposedly extinct by then.  I'm surprised that it doesn't use 3039 by then.

I don't mind a small handful of otherwise extinct units turning up.  As for why 3028, because they've had 300 years to salvage those mechs, so I figure they predominate by far (and even the mechs salvaged post-3028 will be majority those machines).

Just a quick note: at the end of the week I'm off for the summer and won't be back full time until the very end of August.  I may or may not be able to check in during that time.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Karasu on 03 June 2014, 03:24:29
cool.

Another little question turned up while I was analysing the numbers.  What's the deal with the Hunchback 4SP?  It doesn't exist in  3028, is about as common as the rest of the Swaybacks in 3039 and then doesn't exist again in 3050.  I could understand this as an experiment by one House, but the distribution is pretty much even throughout the Inner Sphere, even going so far as FRR and SIC.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Sir Chaos on 03 June 2014, 07:27:34
I don't mind a small handful of otherwise extinct units turning up.  As for why 3028, because they've had 300 years to salvage those mechs, so I figure they predominate by far (and even the mechs salvaged post-3028 will be majority those machines).

Just a quick note: at the end of the week I'm off for the summer and won't be back full time until the very end of August.  I may or may not be able to check in during that time.

There´s nothing keeping people from using a house rule - say any roll indicating salvage that ends in a 5 or 0 (i.e. 005, 010, 015 and so on) is rolled on the 3050 table instead of the 3028. Or any 4, 5 or 9 as the last digit indicates 3039 table, a 0 last digit indicates 3050 table.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables - 20 May v8.02
Post by: NeonKnight on 05 June 2014, 15:39:34
Aero is highly unlikely - there's really not that many aerospace fighters when you break it down by weight, faction, and era.  As for other eras, yes, I'd like to do vehicle and mech tables for all ther eras eventually.  At the rate I'm going, I expect to reach 3085 by about 3075.

I really wish you would include the fighters at the very least. As a returning player this document is invaluable for new players looking to make era accurate lists for anything earlier than the JIHAD era. Go to the MUl and select CIVIL WAR or earlier and all you get is:


No faction data available for this era at this time.

For faction availability, use Random Assignment Tables (RAT) from Total Warfare or other relevant product.


Which is really not an answer as the TW does not break Aerospace into faction, even though a read through any of the TRO's shows some aero were used exclusively by this faction, and some were used by that faction.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Ablomis on 07 June 2014, 10:26:53
There is no drop down list, or any formulas am i doing something wrong? :D
I have MS Office 2010
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: SCC on 08 June 2014, 19:33:58
There is no drop down list, or any formulas am i doing something wrong? :D
I have MS Office 2010
This is a static PDF file, what's word got to do with anything?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Ablomis on 09 June 2014, 12:19:59
I'm talking about the excel file in the first post.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: nckestrel on 09 June 2014, 13:47:11
There is no drop down list, or any formulas am i doing something wrong? :D
I have MS Office 2010

No, it's just a list of tables.  You roll the dice yourself, then look at the excel file to see what you rolled.

EDIT: until you get to the last two couple tabs labeled Random Mech Generator and Random Mech Table.
EDITEDIT: and the xlsx file doesn't have working formulas.  I assume that's what meant by "limited functionality".
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Von Ether on 21 August 2014, 20:18:31
Ah. My bad.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Frabby on 03 October 2014, 17:43:51
It never ends.  :)  Though it's amazing how "new" information can be found in sources that I've already read innumerable times. Anyways...

The Goliath should be removed from the House Liao tables altogether (it's currently AV1). You're somewhat prominently using it as an example for a design that is highly concentrated in its deployment. As a matter of fact, it explicitly says in the writeup for Cochraine's Goliaths on p. 90 of the old Liao Housebook that this unit is the only one in the entire CCAF to have acquired Goliaths. They are mentioned as "primary 'Mechs" for one other unit, Marshigama's Legionnaires (p. 96), but "primary 'Mechs" in this book were always wonky, what with oodles of Commandos, Falcons and Panthers in Capellan regiments. I always read that as "notable" 'Mechs within the respective commands, and the number of Goliaths outside Cochraine's Goliaths should be way below the Av1 threshold.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Xotl on 03 October 2014, 19:43:34
I was never taking into account Cochraine's Goliaths in figuring those numbers: a whole battalion of Liao assaults comprised of the same machine in that period would be Av 7 by itself.

Av 1 for Liao 3028 Assaults is 3 machines, so there's not much room for "way below".

But yeah, even ignoring the primary mechs (as I do too), the note that Liao has none elsewhere, if it isn't contradicted elsewhere, is solid enough that I would remove even the Av 1.  Thanks!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Frabby on 04 October 2014, 05:55:33
Forgot to mention that in my earlier posting: Liao tables for subsequent years should also not have the Goliath at all.

And the St. Ives tables, being as they are descendant from the Liao tables, shouldn't feature the 'Mech either.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v9.02
Post by: Frabby on 29 October 2014, 16:16:31
Stumbled across something in the BC story Godfather (p. 239 of the Counterattack anthology):
Quote
"An Orion," Nathan said. "Or a Marauder." Both were fairly common heavy BattleMechs in the Free Worlds League, with the Orion slightly more so.
The story is set in 3014.

You currently have the Marik 3028 tables with MAD-3R Av3, MAD-3M Av5 but ON1-K Av10, ON-1V Av4 and ON1-VA Av2. The availability difference seems too great. I reckon the Orion needs to be dragged down to Av6 for the ON-1K, and/or the MAD-3M needs to be pushed up a step.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 11 January 2015, 04:46:35
A small update.

 - Corrected the faction lists to be accurate (the lists that show you all Av numbers put together, with no other detail, for quick reference).  Thanks to my wife for showing my sorry self how to get that done with Excel.
 - Quirk updates
 - Removed Liao (and St. Ives) Goliaths (thanks Frabby)
 - Corrected 3050 regiment totals based on 20-Year Update info (again; thanks BigDuke)
 - Minor other fixes (e.g. the Cyclops 11-C was called the Cyclops 11-B on the Davion table, etc).

Creating an Excel process to allow me to keep the Faction Lists up to date allowed me to catch a few very small errors elsewhere, and should help make things more error-free in the future.

Didn't change the totals based on the Battlecorps story, as I don't consider the stories to be accurate enough in this regard to overturn Technical Readouts (which say the Marauder is rare, for instance).

Wel, I guess it's on to 3057 now.  Still need to redo vehicles at some point though...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Pooman on 11 January 2015, 08:12:11
Bring on Operation Guerrero (spelling?).

Really hanging out for 3062ish actually...
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: BigDuke66 on 11 January 2015, 13:50:15
Thanks Xotl!

Just as info, I wanted to update my files but LibreOffice keeps crashing when I work on them so it will take some time, either till I find the error or a new version comes out that hopefully doesn't crash.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: GOTHIK on 27 February 2015, 09:35:19
Xotl, first I would like to say thank you, for all the time and effort you have put into and continue to put into this project.

Every updated version is better than the last, yet certain new features that I hope to find are unfortunately still not included.  Though I don't mean to take away from other features that are new and updated, they are appreciated as well.

But if I might make a few requests, or suggestions?


And, could I maybe even ask for an estimate as to when we might be able to see updates like those?

*NOTE: I'm not sure if this would ever be possible to account for at all, but units with an asterisk could possibly even be civilian or private sector within the borders of a given faction.  This could be useful for helping to flesh-out intricate details for campaigns and role-playing.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: worktroll on 27 February 2015, 15:57:13
And what salart are you offering Xotl to take on those "few" requests?  ;D
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: GOTHIK on 01 March 2015, 12:55:54
And what salart are you offering Xotl to take on those "few" requests?  ;D

Hahaha ... I hear you.  I can't imagine how much work he's already put into this project, and it really shows!  It's an incredibly helpful tool, that I have used countless times.

I would just like to know if and when that usefulness can be expanded.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Maverick__ on 02 March 2015, 21:25:21
I have downloading the new files and I have the power! MWHA!HA!HA!

Thanks Xotl, I really love these tables.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 02 March 2015, 21:39:14
Xotl, first I would like to say thank you, for all the time and effort you have put into and continue to put into this project.

Every updated version is better than the last, yet certain new features that I hope to find are unfortunately still not included.  Though I don't mean to take away from other features that are new and updated, they are appreciated as well.

But if I might make a few requests, or suggestions?

I appreciate your kind words, but I will not be adding any of the material you have requested.  Aero is too small to really need the treatment I give, and you start getting some distortions when dealing with that small a selection (witness the Clan tables at times).  As for regimental data, that would be a project so mad as to be near-Lovecraftian; you'll have to settle for the unit quality modifiers to the die rolls.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: GOTHIK on 03 March 2015, 10:41:10
a project so mad as to be near-Lovecraftian

Understood.  Say no more. 

Thank you again, for all you do for the community, Xotl!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: mdauben on 04 March 2015, 11:48:43
Just wanted to add my own "Thanks!" for the hard work and most recent update!   O0
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: GOTHIK on 26 March 2015, 19:33:04
If I'm using a 3028 table, and the roll I make indicates a PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk, what are the chances that it's Tek Tru-Trak targeting computer is still intact?

Thank you!
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Wrangler on 26 March 2015, 20:13:43
If I'm using a 3028 table, and the roll I make indicates a PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk, what are the chances that it's Tek Tru-Trak targeting computer is still intact?

Thank you!
That pure fluff though. There isn't any "targeting computer" in original PHX in record sheet form.  There is a ECM one though.
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 26 March 2015, 20:30:34
This is briefly treated on p. 84.  In short, there are no canon numbers as to how many machines have the computer.  Considering how good the effect is, I would make it "very few indeed".
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: GOTHIK on 26 March 2015, 21:17:12
I kind of figured as much.  Thanks, Xotl.

Is there any particular year (even a specific event), that the availability suddenly drops in?
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 26 March 2015, 21:43:10
No.  There's next to no hard data of any kind: it's really just a passing reference.  I only suggest being conservative because it's such a good ability (and really, if every PHawk under the sun had this it's something that would have been noticed and played up more, especially since they never go out of production).
Title: Re: 3025-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: malk2651 on 22 May 2015, 22:30:56
Just found this, thank you for all the hard work.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: snowridr on 06 September 2015, 19:51:56
Great to see another update this was very helpful our GM making deployment tables for our campaign several years back.

FWIW, we made it a roll of 12 for finding a Pheonix Hawk mech with the TruTrak computer.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Greggory123 on 22 September 2015, 23:37:04
Snowridr, I'd watch out using 2d6 for odds.  It's not a wide range.  My guess is that it's lower than 1/36 (~3%) PXHs that have this.  Use xotl's 3d10 (1d1000) rule.  Considering the raw number of PXH's being destroyed and built, I'd put the number between one and five on the 1d1000 with odds going radically up for any PXH found in Lostech Caches (probably as high as 100%).

Xotl, is there any way that I (or others) could help with expanding the tables?  I'm currently having to integrate your 3050 and a 2d6 official table for 3052-3 for a campaign.  Definitely not an exact science.  Your tables are the only ones that give me a true variety in a campaign, but fall off post-3050.  I'd love to help.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 23 September 2015, 00:23:08
I slowly chip away at the 3057 tables -- did a bunch of work just a couple of weeks ago.  It just takes a long time.  But I'll definitely finish those.

I'll probably retire them after 3057 (and a vehicle update that I've been promising forever) and hand future editions over to someone else.  I just don't have the time anymore.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Wrangler on 23 September 2015, 10:56:23
Sorry hear that, Your tables are inspirationally awesome.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Sartris on 23 September 2015, 14:42:09
it's been a hell of a run. the community salutes your efforts
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: beachhead1985 on 25 September 2015, 13:46:02
it's been a hell of a run. the community salutes your efforts
indeed
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Mizukage on 12 November 2015, 12:32:47
Question: Is the OTT-7J Ostscout a 30t or a 35t Mech? I think it is a 35t, but your tables said most times 30t.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 12 November 2015, 13:13:30
It's a 35-tonner.  I see I have it at that for the first couple of entries, and then it strays to 30 tons.  Thanks for the catch - I'll fix it in the next release.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Wrangler on 12 November 2015, 13:54:55
Hi Xotl, i know you retiring from doing this.  Will these new Combat Manuals effect your tables any?
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 12 November 2015, 14:15:39
Not that I'm aware of.  I built my tables off the same info that the MUL used, and had input into the MUL as well.  That in turn shaped the Manual, so I imagine things will all be on the same page.  If anyone notices any discrepancy, let me know however.  Even quitting, I'll still maintain the tables for corrections as time goes by.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Cheleron Lightning on 09 January 2016, 22:17:01
This is awesome work. Thanks, Xotl!

I am currently working on 3062 tables, though they are in 3x2d6 format (A,B,C ratings like I used in a 3039 campaign). So far, I have finished Steiner, Kurita, and Mercenary general. They are here in OpenOffice and Excel.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qm099nq0hk1rdhr/AAA0UicepfLwGUK7WD1WV-sla?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qm099nq0hk1rdhr/AAA0UicepfLwGUK7WD1WV-sla?dl=0dl=0)

Note that my knowledge of BattleTech history is sketchy, but the tables can be modified to replace units.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: HMS_Swiftsure on 20 January 2016, 02:06:23
This thread was started near-as-dammit five years ago.  In those five years, these tables have positively impacted Battletech play for a very large number of players indeed.  From personal experience, the "random assignment up to xBV" games at our local store were massively improved by this resource.  More than a few of our campaigns have leaned heavily on these lists.  Megamek has never been better since the tables were implemented in there.  To say that thousands of games have been improved by these tables would be a *very* conservative estimate.

Xotl, I'm sorry to hear that you're stepping away from the project.  Please know that you've produced a product that is inspirational in scope and genuinely impactful for those that have used it.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: truetanker on 21 February 2016, 01:04:59
Xotl, you should try and get these into print for future references.

These are awesome!!

TT
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 12 September 2016, 11:48:55
Hello all.

I'm closing in on completing the 3057 Inner Sphere mech tables.  While I was at it, I thought I'd ask here if people might be able to help out.  What I'm looking for are references both a) canon and b) concrete regarding deployment/force faction info for each House that is not in the Field Manual series.  The manuals have some excellent info in them, but they're the only source I have so far, and some (DCMS) are better than others (CCAF).  I'm looking for statements like X number of new regiments built since Y, X upgrade percentage, etc: anything with some semblance of solid numbers applicable to 3057 (give or take a few years) and, again, not in the Field Manuals.

There may very well not be anything of this sort in existence, which is fine.  I just don't want to make these having missed something and then be forced to double back and redo a bunch of work.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 12 September 2016, 14:30:47
I suppose The Dragon Roars and Twilight of the Clans might have something that can be mined, even if they're a little after the 3057 timeframe.  I would expect there to be few changes between the date of your RATs and the availability of forces for Operations Bird Dog and Serpent.  It's not like most of the Field Manuals aren't set in even later years!  Poking further, the Invading Clans book is dated in-universe as 3058, so I suppose that'd be the best thing to pick through.

Was there ever a sourcebook or anything for the punitive war from the FWL and CC against the FS in that timeframe?
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Casper on 13 September 2016, 09:36:39
8621 Tech Readout 3058 (the original) provides some good deployment information for 'mechs such as the owens pg 82, Strider pg 84, Firestarter pg 86, Nexus pg 96, Falcon Hawk pg 98, Talon pg 104, Raijin pg 110, Lynx pg 118, Spartan pg 138, Thunderhawk pg 152, Nobori-Nin pg 170, Cauldron-Born pg 176, Supernova pg 196, Kodiak pg 190.

35015 Tech Readout 3058 (Upgraded) also has useful information.

1645 Invading Clans provides information on the composition type of each clans units.  This could be useful to reference against when determining for example the number of Nobori-Nin Omni mechs.

1710 Twilight of the Clans would be most useful to you as it has the complete Battleforce rosters (stating every mech deployed) for: Knights of the Innersphere, 11th Lyran Guards, Kingston's Legionaires, 2nd St Ives Lancers, 4th Drakons, 1st Kathil Uhlans, MacLeod's Regiment of the Northwind Highlanders, Royal Black Watch Company, Com Guard 2nd Division, and the Eridani Light Horse.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: plutonick on 17 October 2016, 06:58:05
I am late to the party (and a new player) but thanks for this!
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Medron Pryde on 17 October 2016, 14:41:11
Operation Stilleto and Operation Flashpoint have some very good tables and other information showing which combat units are representative of their states during the approximate timeframe you are looking at.

They cover the Inner Sphere, Periphery, and I believe the Clans as well though I never personally spent much time studying those tables.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Alfaryn on 02 December 2016, 04:06:15
Since I've finally decided to join these forums, I'd like to say that I also greatly appreciate Xotl's work on this thing. I find it much more useful than many official products I own, and can't wait for the 3057 tables and whatever revisions to the old material are supposed to happen.

Keep up the good work Xotl, and thank you!
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: ShadowFighter88 on 06 January 2017, 21:49:25
Firstly, awesome work on this table Xotl, bloody spectacular.

I do have one question, though; say I'm wanting to run a campaign in 3025 or 26, is there anything on the 3028 charts in this that could cause issues (like a 'Mech that first saw service in 3027 and so wouldn't be available for the aforementioned campaign) or is it right to use as-is for a bit earlier than 3028?
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 06 January 2017, 23:53:38
There's a small few new machines that show up in the '20s, Daboku, Hatchetman, Cataphract, and Raven IIRC.  There is probably a couple more, but check the intro dates on those at least.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 07 January 2017, 13:02:10
Offhand, the only other mech I can add to that list is the Wolfhound, which debuts in 3028.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Alfaryn on 03 February 2017, 14:52:06
If TRO 3039 is to be believed, the Federated Suns (or anyone except the Capellians) probably shouldn't have any Ravens prior to Fourth Succession War, as it is during that war, when the Feds captured their first Ravens, or at least it is when they had enough of them to send some of them to be reverse engineered at NAIS. Also according to MUL RVN-1X was the only Raven variant that existed prior to 3028.

Edit: Disregard my notes above - looks like there are no Ravens in Xotl's 3028 tables, other than Capellan RVN-1X, despite the fact, that the Feds should have some of them by then (I guess, that they fall under "026-050 Salvage: Liao 3028" line in the table), and the fact, that RVN-3X is marked as introduced in 3028 (I guess, that either Xotl felt there were not enough of them then to include in the table, or he just made the table to reflect the state of things at the beginning of 2028, before RVN-3X was introduced).

Either way the 3028 should be about right for 3025-3026, at least as far as Ravens go. Maybe just reduce probability of getting one a bit - say if you roll one you get say 50% chance to get it, otherwise you re-roll the 'Mech. If you use the availability tables on pages 66-85, you may also want reduce the availability number of RVN-1X a bit.

Edit 2: Most of what I said above about the Raven also goes for the Cataphract. Only CTF-1X should be available in 3025-3026 (and CTF-0X, but this one was apparently so rare, it never made into the tables), and only after the Fourth Succession War is well under way, as the 'Mech was created by the Capellans in response to loosing all of their heavy 'Mech assembly lines.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: beachhead1985 on 12 February 2017, 19:33:00

Edit 2: Most of what I said above about the Raven also goes for the Cataphract. Only CTF-1X should be available in 3025-3026 (and CTF-0X, but this one was apparently so rare, it never made into the tables), and only after the Fourth Succession War is well under way, as the 'Mech was created by the Capellans in response to loosing all of their heavy 'Mech assembly lines.

Afraid not.

Cataphract predates 4SW, if briefly. Cataphracts feature in the Kathil raid and some of the lines are captured on Tikonov.

The mech is first featured in it's super-sexy frankenmech guise in Handbook: House Liao.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 18 March 2017, 01:37:36
So Dropbox has killed the public folder and files shared through it, which means my project links are all dead.

What are people using as a free repalcement?  I've used Dropbox to host everything here, including a lot of errata, so this is kind of important for me.  Thanks.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Daryk on 18 March 2017, 08:09:46
Bummer!  Is there any way you could beg an indulgence from Catalyst to host them here (in the fan section of the forum)?
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Sartris on 18 March 2017, 09:02:19
So Dropbox has killed the public folder and files shared through it, which means my project links are all dead.

What are people using as a free repalcement?  I've used Dropbox to host everything here, including a lot of errata, so this is kind of important for me.  Thanks.

Google docs?
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: DaddyHolby on 18 March 2017, 09:46:06
Dropbox killed the public folder, but I believe you can use the Get Link feature to get a shareable link that is public so people can still download it.

Haven't tried it myself yet, but that's what I remember reading in the email they sent about this a while back.

So you could try that first before moving to another location.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 18 March 2017, 09:48:03
Dropbox killed the public folder, but I believe you can use the Get Link feature to get a shareable link that is public so people can still download it
Yup
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 18 March 2017, 10:49:04
Okay, I've updated the main link.  I'll be updating various others as I recall them or people point them out.  Thanks!
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 26 March 2017, 22:21:10
After a million years of infrastructure-type work in Excel (which is about 95% of the work), I'm at last able to start making the tables themselves for 3057.  Today I finished the Liao tables.  It looks like each set takes about a day to do, so it's still going to be a while, because I don't have a lot of free days anymore, but I thought I'd put Liao up for comments and a check-over.  Cheers.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lk5ojphvi0e3xif/3028-3057%20Random%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%2010.0%20RELEASE.pdf?dl=0

Expect to see these tweaked between now and the final release.  But they should be fairly close.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: HMS_Swiftsure on 26 March 2017, 23:47:11
Love it.  The pride of the CapCon only pilots the best CapCon products and not any clearly inferior salvaged equipment?
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 26 March 2017, 23:56:53
Yeah, that's the basic idea.  Seemed to be fine in the days when production was scarce, but when the factories are actually rolling again I can't see Blandford's Grenadiers cruising around in salvaged Enforcers and what not.

Doubtless there would still be salvaged machines out there even in elite ranks; I might change my mind and just drop the salvage chance to 10% or something, and add a bonus to the salvage roll so that if you do get salvage as an elite unit member, it's probably something worth going out of your way to keep.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: HMS_Swiftsure on 27 March 2017, 02:38:31
I think it's fine as is.  The political expedience in not using a machine from a different faction could easily result in the number of captured machines in the elite forces being too small a percentage to represent on the RAT.  Strikes me as very 3057 Capellan-y, and gives a neat vibe to the list to set it apart from others to an even greater degree.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Frabby on 27 March 2017, 02:51:35
Can you provide the availability ratings for the individual chassis (in the old 1=very rare trough 10=extremely common fashion) for a quick glance?
My gut feeling says the Raven is way too common on the tables, for example.

Shouldn't the C/D/F rated units also get a shot at new Capellan glory by getting a roll on the A/B table in addition to "salvage" rolls on the Davion and Marik tables?

Also, salvage ratios... why is there a larger chance to find salvaged Marik equipent, given that the CCAF seems to be primarily fighting the AFFS (AFFC) these days? Any Marik tech that comes via the Concord of Kapteyn or trade agreements is (I assume) already hardwired into the tables and salvage would only refer to 'Mechs obtained through combat or other unfriendly means.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 27 March 2017, 05:48:35
I'd say the salvage would be shipped off to the lesser units to let the best have the best hardware, myself.  Reward merit, like MadCap says.  Also, holy crap that's gonna be a lot of Vindicators, Cataphracts, and Victors.  Not that I'm complaining.

That said, Patrick McGoohan?  Nice.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 27 March 2017, 11:42:55
First, the Av ratings, as requested.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ecse3cz1oha1rpw/CapCon%203057%20AV%20ratings.docx?dl=0

Now, on to a lot of the fun stuff in order to answer questions.  This is also why these tables take so long to make.

The CCAF gets chopped down to an all-time low of 12 regiments following the 4th War and Adurien-Magistracy Invasion.  By 3057 they're up to 31 regiments.  That means that less than 40% of their ranks are pre-4th War production.  At the same time, they get dropped down to an all-time low in terms of factories as well, and those don't reappear anywhere near as fast as their regiment numbers do.  They lose Corey, they lose Styk, they lose Nanking, they lose Tikonov, they lose St. Ives.  Basically all they can build are Stingers, Wasps, Locusts, Vindicators, Ravens, and Cataphracts.  Offhand, that's it (and remember, some of those pre-4th War survivals are going to be yet more Stingers, Wasps, Locusts, and Vindicators).  That means a remarkably homogenous set of tables.  Yes, when you fight the CapCon in this era, you may lose simply by being drowned in Vindicator corpses.  Kind of boring, but that's the established facts of the universe, and the whole point of these tables is to capture things like that.  At least the AB tables get some Marik bribery machines to leaven things a bit.

The other thing is that when I completely redid the tables some years back to take into account regiment numbers and known weight distributions, and tied that into my Av numbers, it means I could say with some statistical certainty just how many of X machine actually existed in any one House.  Now, because I have a record for each era I make tables for, I can be consistent in terms of these numbers.  More importantly, I should, or the work was pointless.  For instance, I start a set of 3057 tables by grabbing my excel sheet for 3050 for that faction and then begin making tweaks.  So, in 3050 Liao statistically has 51 PXH-1 Phoenix Hawks in its ranks.  Since they don't make those anymore, I have to make sure that the combined total of Phoenix Hawks in both the AB and CDF sheets for 3057 doesn't exceed 51.  If I'm off by 1 or 2, no big deal, but that's the general constraint I'm working with.

So, take 3050, figure out how many regiments are in 3057, figure out how many of those are A or B-rated vs CDF rated, figure out new production and open-market purchases new to that era, and cross check the results constantly against each other and the 3050 total to make sure it all lines up both backward in time and across both sets of unit ratings.  This took a while to set up.

Because of this combo -- the split between AB and CDF, combined with wild swings in regiment sizes for some factions -- Av numbers are often much rougher guidelines compared to what they used to be.  All that matters to me is lining up the total number of old, fixed numbers of machines (the ones no longer in production) between the 3050 tables and the 3057 tables.  The rest is gravy (we don't have production figures for newer machines, but we have the number of regiments added, so by process of elimination what is produced must fill those regiments).

Bear in mind, too, that what the Av ratings mean change depending on whether you're looking at AB or CDF tables.  The AB tables are always dealing with a much smaller number of regiments (9, in the CCAF's case).  For example, Av 2 in the AB tables means about a lance of machines scattered across 9 regiments; the same value for the CDF tables (22 regiments) means about two companies.  Because the AB-rated regiments are fewer, I could add more weird Succession War-era obscurities and SLDF leftovers to their list, whereas in the larger pool of CDF regiments they're diluted to the point of statistical extinction.

So, on to specific points:

Number of Ravens: kind of addressed above (Liao doesn't build much else).  I tried to keep the numbers of ECM ones down, though, focusing on the combat models.  You've got about 30 ECM-equipped ones scattered throughout the 22 regiments of CDF (most being the primitive -1X).

Chance for good machines in CDF ranks: thought about it, but if the well-connected premier regiments don't have enough for their needs/desires I don't see how a F-rated unit is going to get enough to statistically matter, so I removed it.  At the same time, I could allow the chance, but with a roll modifier based on unit quality, so that C has a chance and D and F do not.  Might be worth it, probably be too fiddly to bother with.  That all having been said, if a Field Manual RAT assigns something cool to a lower-tier set of units, and it's not too wacky, I'll probably run with it.

Salvage ratios: Yes, Liao fought the Davions more in recent history.  But they didn't win a single one of those battles, and you have to control the field to salvage.  I forgot to note that the salvage ratings should specify the 3025 tables only for that reason (I'll edit that in the PDF right now): it's all 3rd Succession War-era salvage.

Also, the green coloured band is part a suggestion made a while back by some clever reader asking for quick visual cues to help guide a guy flipping through these.  Each of the House tables will have their colour.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Frabby on 27 March 2017, 13:43:27
Ok, good reasoning there. Need to ponder this some more. Thanks for being so thorough.  O0
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Hythos on 27 March 2017, 17:21:48
After a million years of infrastructure-type work in Excel (which is about 95% of the work), I'm at last able to start making the tables themselves for 3057.  Today I finished the Liao tables. 

YAY -4- OpFor! :)
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Sir Chaos on 27 March 2017, 17:43:53
The CCAF did drive back the Canopians when they and the Andurians invaded. So, maybe allow for some salvage off their RAT (the old General RAT), too.

Also, three cheers for the new RAT tables!
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 02 April 2017, 01:05:33
The Lyran results are, I admit, the ones I'm really waiting to see, but I can imagine the nightmare of tracking units destroyed by the Clans and what was lost, and adjusting their numbers - the same with the Kuritans, though they really ramped up with the OmniMechs and the R loadouts.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: beachhead1985 on 04 June 2017, 21:42:52
Again, I have found this utility invaluable in my own games. Thank you once again, Xotl
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 01 September 2017, 14:48:35
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lk5ojphvi0e3xif/3028-3057%20Random%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%2010.0%20RELEASE.pdf?dl=0

Had a little more time to work on this this week.  Would have liked to get more, but there you have it.  Previous CapCon tables redone, new Kurita ones added.

I'll be introducing new roll mods for these tables:
When rolling on the 3057 tables (and the 3050 Steiner tables), apply the following modifiers instead: B (-50), C (+50), F (-100).  Lastly, D and F-rated units must re-roll any unit marked with a L (this signifies a machine with Lostech, which never trickled down to those units this early in the technological recovery, regardless of the BV of the unit in question).

The last caveat lets me allow for some lostech making it down to the C-level (which according to the Field Manuals did happen) without handing it out to D- and F-rated units.  I had hoped that the increased BV of such units would mean that they could be eliminated by simple roll mods, but some of the 3050-era revisions make a unit only negligibly better, still able to be outperformed by more optimized and heavier regular-tech machines (reflected in their higher BV, which is what I sort the mechs on these tables by).

For the Kurita tables, the Victor is not noted as a Lostech unit; this is because its TRO entry says it was shipped out to the Legion of Vega and Ghost Regiments despite being a new machine.  Technically there's a chance than even a generic F-rated unit could get one, but as there's only three non-Ghost F-rated regiments and there's only a 1 in 500 chance for one of those three units getting one I'm not too worried about it.

The CapCon tables were re-done because I realized after the first version that the Capellans no longer make assault mechs.  They could buy a few from Marik or the merc market, but there's no way they doubled their number of regiments and kept up with their assault mech ratios to match this.  As such, I halved their assault mech percentage, to 5%.  This in turn required rebalancing the other weight classes, in order to ensure the numbers of non-produced mechs didn't climb instead of fall.  I might need to do another pass on these, though to really make sure the number all line up (EDIT: and done, also also added the Catapult -C4C, which I had missed).

Comments welcome.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: truetanker on 01 September 2017, 15:55:41
What about the Xanthos....even not being built until after the stated year, they should still be available some what, even tho they are ancient.

TT
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 01 September 2017, 16:10:53
No, I checked on that years ago, after 3075 came out.  The only old-school machines in that book that survived were the Icarus II and the Gladiator.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: truetanker on 01 September 2017, 16:23:46
Now that sucks, it is a fine machine for that 3025 era. Where else can you find an AC/20-PPC totter at?  Your right became extinct around the 2SW...

Still would claim one or two around at a really low to-get target number, like 001 only, but that's just me.

I really like your new layout too, cleaner and better reflecting a good quality.

TT
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Revanche on 01 September 2017, 17:17:13
Had a little more time to work on this this week.  Would have liked to get more, but there you have it.  Previous CapCon tables redone, new Kurita ones added.


Xotl, I too really appreciate these tables. Clarification, though: is the above link a preview? Is there be a new release forthcoming?
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Xotl on 01 September 2017, 17:29:33
Yeah, a preview/beta for the new 3057 release.  Two houses down, three to go.  I won't be doing any others for 3057 beside the Houses because I no longer have the time (just doing these five because I promised I'd get them done).
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Daryk on 01 September 2017, 17:37:35
Works for me!  I've been avoiding the clans for years.  Your tables are an excellent source of inspiration when building forces.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: Revanche on 01 September 2017, 20:19:42
Yeah, a preview/beta for the new 3057 release.  Two houses down, three to go.  I won't be doing any others for 3057 beside the Houses because I no longer have the time (just doing these five because I promised I'd get them done).

Roger that; thank you.
Title: Re: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 11 Jan v9.1
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 01 September 2017, 20:42:30
Yeah, a preview/beta for the new 3057 release.  Two houses down, three to go.  I won't be doing any others for 3057 beside the Houses because I no longer have the time (just doing these five because I promised I'd get them done).
Very deeply appreciate your dedication to finishing it.  I use these for filling out my random Lyran units plenty.  it's just a little bit of a bummer how rare the 'dedicated' Lyran designs are, compared to all the Star League salvage and common machines ended up with, so sometimes I'll fudge rolls a bit for some extra -S variants. 

So for your weight-by-percentage chart, how would you adjust those numbers for, say, light/heavy/assault units?  Or do you see it more or less the same distribution across the board, and it's all coming down to how each regiment organizes its individual supply rather than "this is an assault regiment, this is a light regiment" with their own percentages of weight classes?