Author Topic: The Unseen - a Reseen IIC Explanation, and a List (Updated, March 2016)  (Read 36772 times)

StCptMara

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So, you know, a fun question: How do the new Robotech Tactics minis that scale with the current BattleTech
stuff stand for use? Could we use those? Or would those still be forbidden in official events?
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

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Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

ColBosch

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So, you know, a fun question: How do the new Robotech Tactics minis that scale with the current BattleTech
stuff stand for use? Could we use those? Or would those still be forbidden in official events?

I certainly can't make an official statement, but I do believe the short answer is "no" and the long answer is "no" preceded and followed by long strings of profanity. Seriously, why would you even begin to think that would be in any way okay?
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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worktroll

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1) All out-of-house designs - be they Macross, Crusher Joe, Dougram, Victor Music Industries, etc - are considered Unseen, as listed in the first post.

2) Only CGL and IWM minis (including Ral Partha and Ral Partha Europe), barring Unseen, are suitable for use in official CGL events. This does not include minis from other manufacturers
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

ialdabaoth

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I think this needs to be updated, now. :)

worktroll

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Not sure why? ???

THe new Classics, when available, will be official CGL minis, therefore no problems.

As for the "never looked like that" issue, it's strictly outside of the legal issues involved in artwork, etc. These rules will still apply, just becoming increasingly irrelevant.

Well, AFAIK that's the situation.

W.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Black_Knyght

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Just to clarify - I have an original sculpt for the now "unseen" Vixen, and if I read things correctly I CAN post pictures of it. Is this correct, or am I reading it wrong?

Sharpnel

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You would be correct.
Commander Louis Seifer, PHX-1U Phoenix Hawk, Extreme Measures, Inc.
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Black_Knyght

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Thanx, I was hoping I'd gotten that right. I wanted to post some shots here, but didn't want to step on any rules in the process.
« Last Edit: 27 March 2016, 05:14:07 by Black_Knyght »

StCptMara

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Well...this is interesting:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51851.0

I am curious: what has allowed this change?
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

Paladin1

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I'm not sure, but I hope it's not another case of jumping the gun.  The last time this happened, it caused all KINDS of heartache among a certain group of people.

ColBosch

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Well...this is interesting:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51851.0

I am curious: what has allowed this change?

My best guess: since IMR/CGL have decided to fully retcon the Unseen, reversing the previous decision of "they look like the anime models, but we can't actually show them," displaying said old images is no longer considered tacit advertising.

I'm not sure, but I hope it's not another case of jumping the gun.  The last time this happened, it caused all KINDS of heartache among a certain group of people.

This is absolutely nothing like the "we can use the Unseen in our products again" announcement and retraction. Frankly, Rule 8 was always about being better safe than sorry.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
1st and 2nd Succession Wars are not happy times. - klarg1

JadeHellbringer

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This is a forum-ONLY change in policy, and even then it's got some restrictions on it that aren't worth worrying about outside the admin-curtain. On the forums, fans can post unseens, it doesn't mean anything at all in terms of upcoming products, demo agents using them in official events, etc.
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ColBosch

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Hey, before this thread gets deleted, could someone refresh my memory on the original Battledroids sculpts? The Behemoth is pretty obviously Unseen, and the vehicles were all free-and-clear, but what about the others?

For that matter, it would probably be good to have some sort of post up listing the Unseen, so Demo Agents and players can have a reference when planning for official events.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
1st and 2nd Succession Wars are not happy times. - klarg1

worktroll

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These were - on the whole - never considered canon sculpts in the first place. While produced under the Battledroids label, in most cases they never transitioned to BattleTech.

Yes, there are exceptions. The Bombardier and Flea come to mind immediately. The others remain sculpts outside BattleTech history. The reasons why some made it through and others didn't reminds me of G'Kar's point on Swedish meatballs ...

TL:DR version: they're someone else's sculpts. Mostly.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

ColBosch

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I'm trawling through a bunch of old Ral Partha catalogs right now, and I suspect that the Battledroids machines were done before the license with 21st Century Imports was finalized. They were some of Robert Charette's earliest sculpts, and really showed it; most were gone by 1988, when the BattleTech line really took off.

So. For practical purposes they are Unseen - i.e., they will never be pictured in official products in their original forms and should not be used in official events - even if there's no pressing legal reason to avoid them. They were just retconned away.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
1st and 2nd Succession Wars are not happy times. - klarg1

worktroll

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More that - with mentioned limited exceptions - they never appeared in canon in the first place. Books >> minis, of course.  Charette's original Rifleman, etc are of course retconned along with more Macross-faithful Ral Partha minis.

Yup, most of the Battledroid minis looked like "We want a mini that looks like X, but we haven't got a licence for X yet ..."
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

mike19k

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If I remember correctly there is a Behemoth mech in the Wolf Dragoons phone book, or it might have been one that did not list tank after it and was in a mech lance. I do not remember and am away from my book right now. But that is what I did with the one that I had.

Black_Knyght

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Hey, before this thread gets deleted, could someone refresh my memory on the original Battledroids sculpts? The Behemoth is pretty obviously Unseen, and the vehicles were all free-and-clear, but what about the others?

For that matter, it would probably be good to have some sort of post up listing the Unseen, so Demo Agents and players can have a reference when planning for official events.

I kind of wondered about that too, since mechs miniatures like the Battleaxe and the Cestus were pretty obviously NOT Robotech, Crusher Joe, or Fang of Sun Dougram rip-off copies.

worktroll

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Oh, I don't know - the Battleaxe always looked to be a Warhammer-equivalent, the BD Cestus a Rifleman (or was that the Crusader-alike), and the one with hexnut missile launchers strongly implying a Macross Phalanx. Not to mention the BD Firebee, which I always thought was the best Phoenix Hawk sculpt ever ;) Und so weiter.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

ColBosch

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If I remember correctly there is a Behemoth mech in the Wolf Dragoons phone book, or it might have been one that did not list tank after it and was in a mech lance. I do not remember and am away from my book right now. But that is what I did with the one that I had.

Correct, and I'm trying to figure out what the hell to do with that entry.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
1st and 2nd Succession Wars are not happy times. - klarg1

worktroll

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Alpha regiment, Charlie Battalion, Branson's Company, Assault lance - Gordon Zed driving, along with a Stalker, Shogun & Goliath. Good catch!

Assume it's a Stone Rhino, which along with the Shogun should never have been used in the Clan expeditionary force ;) Or blame Cornstar.

* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

ColBosch

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Yeah, but the Stone Rhino is also Unseen. ;)

...not that I care, in its case. It's one of my favorite pieces.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
1st and 2nd Succession Wars are not happy times. - klarg1

worktroll

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Well, when you build & paint all of Alpha Regiment, it'll be a lovely easter egg ;)
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

mike19k

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Correct, and I'm trying to figure out what the hell to do with that entry.

Just do like I did, I have one Battledroids Behemoth, so that is where it is going. I will likely just use the stats of for the clan behemoth as an opps. There is also the Alpha veritech in battaloid in the Spider and the Wolf I think it is a "Hornet" now my understanding is that book is no longer canon.

Well, when you build & paint all of Alpha Regiment, it'll be a lovely easter egg ;)
I am just about done with Zeta Battalion from that phone book, not sure if I want to start on Alpha next or what.
« Last Edit: 31 March 2016, 00:52:07 by mike19k »

ColBosch

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The Spider and the Wolf is canon. Just not all of the art.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
1st and 2nd Succession Wars are not happy times. - klarg1