Author Topic: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?  (Read 17011 times)

Kojak

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Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« on: 04 March 2014, 18:27:20 »
I always see the text state that eighty percent of the HPGs went down on Gray Monday. With the number of settled worlds out there, of course, that means that there are still a couple hundred in operation. While I obviously don't think we'll ever get a complete list, has anyone put together a list of those that have been confirmed as still functional?


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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #1 on: 04 March 2014, 18:59:19 »
That's how many went down on Gray Monday.  More failed as time wore on.  By 3145, I'd be surprised if there were more than a dozen left in operation - if that.
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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #2 on: 04 March 2014, 19:06:47 »
Possibly Towne (YES: "Swordsworn, Highlanders Representatives on Towne", 01/18/3133; "Jurik: Centauri Lancers Coming to Towne", 08/03/3133; Blood of the Isle; NO: "HPG Working on Achernar?", 07/26/3133; "Message From Achernar", 08/02/3133; several other INN articles)

Wyatt (Target of Opportunity; restarted by ComStar during novel)
Thorin (Target of Opportunity)

Achernar (A Call to Arms, LinkNet)
Ronel (A Call to Arms, Fortress Republic)

Imbros III (Flight of the Falcon)
Terra  (Flight of the Falcon; unclear how the message got from Imbros III to Terra; Redburn: "At 0533 this morning, local time, we received a communication from our HPG net. It came within the scope of our restored coverage at Imbros III in Prefecture I. Prior to that, the information was carried via a virtual command circuit—passed on from JumpShips entering systems to the next ship jumping out in the direction of the Core." -- p62; a Levin's List entry on LinkNet seems to confirm that it's working)

Genoa (By Temptations and By War)
New Aragon (By Temptations and By War)
Menkar (By Temptations and By War
Algot (By Temptations and By War)

Hsien (LinkNet)
Kessel (LinkNet)
Gacrux (LinkNet)
Irian (LinkNet)
Northwind (LinkNet)

Bondurant (Fire At Will)
Shasta (Fire At Will)
Millungera (Fire At Will; restarted by ComStar during timeframe of novel; though A Bonfire of Worlds indicates it didn't take)

Kojak

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #3 on: 04 March 2014, 22:02:43 »
Do we know if any of the House capitals have working HPGs? Or other critical House worlds? What about Clan capitals?


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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #4 on: 04 March 2014, 22:15:50 »
I don't believe we do, no.

Oh, and add Palmyra to the list. It survived Gray Monday but was taken out when the Dracs came calling 10+ years later.

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #5 on: 04 March 2014, 22:18:27 »
Palmyria's HPG was functioning and was one of the reasons why Caleb chose the world as a staging ground for the AFFS. The HPG was destroyed by the DCMS and, presumably, cannot be repaired/replaced

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SCC

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #6 on: 04 March 2014, 23:49:32 »
Not enough to really matter.

Now I now Gray Monday includes the virus and physical attacks that occurred at the same time, but I've got this feeling there was something else that also did a number on the HPG net that was unrelated, does anyone know what it is?

BobTheZombie

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #7 on: 05 March 2014, 01:42:45 »
May be a little late, but anyway...

From www.sarna.net/wiki/Blackout:

    Achernar[4]
    Algot[5]
    Bondurant[6]
    Gacrux[7]
    Genoa[5]
    Hsien[7]
    Imbros III[8]
    Irian[7]
    Kessel[7]
    Menkar[5]
    Millungera (temporarily; HPG fix did not last)[9]
    New Aragon[5]
    Northwind[7]
    Ronel[10]
    Shasta[6]
    Terra[8]
    Thorin[11]
    Towne (uncertain due to conflicting information)[12]
    Wyatt (temporarily; HPG fix did not last)[citation needed]
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Frabby

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #8 on: 05 March 2014, 03:45:16 »
Thanks for the list from Sarna, Bob... but that is actually just Roosterboy's list which I snitched from a similar earlier thread on this forum (with his kind permission), including the references.
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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #9 on: 05 March 2014, 04:12:35 »
Not enough to really matter.

Now I now Gray Monday includes the virus and physical attacks that occurred at the same time, but I've got this feeling there was something else that also did a number on the HPG net that was unrelated, does anyone know what it is?

CLARION CALL?
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SCC

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #10 on: 05 March 2014, 04:22:52 »
It rings a bell

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #11 on: 05 March 2014, 04:44:06 »
That would be the weird super HPG weapon that's messing with the hyperspace wavelength used for transmitting HPG signals, and the reason that even brand new HPGs (and ones wholly disconnected from the greater network) don't work.
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SCC

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #12 on: 05 March 2014, 05:03:51 »
If I remember comments on the boards correctly a lot of people seemed to think it was part of Gray Monday for no reason, and something on that front has just occurred to me: Why are there TWO groups using anti-HPG strategies at the same time? I mean if you have CLARION CALL why cause Gray Monday?

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #13 on: 05 March 2014, 05:27:43 »
Because CLARION CALL is uneven - witness that 20% of HPGs still work despite it being operational
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roosterboy

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #14 on: 05 March 2014, 05:28:19 »
If I remember comments on the boards correctly a lot of people seemed to think it was part of Gray Monday for no reason, and something on that front has just occurred to me: Why are there TWO groups using anti-HPG strategies at the same time? I mean if you have CLARION CALL why cause Gray Monday?

I think you're confused. Clarion Note|Call is apparently what caused Gray Monday.

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #15 on: 05 March 2014, 05:36:21 »
Then the virus and the attacks are what?

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #16 on: 05 March 2014, 05:50:16 »
Also part of Grey Monday.
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roosterboy

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #17 on: 05 March 2014, 05:57:53 »
What virus?

Quote from: A Bonfire of Worlds, Ch01
“No need to worry,” said Buhl smoothly. “Because we’ve found another approach. We haven’t been able to eradicate the virus that caused the blackout. So we’ve come to the Polar Network solution, two brand new hyperpulse generators, one here and one on Mars, both of them built from scratch, every bolt, every capacitor, every circuit board assembled in brand new facilities. It cost billions of CBills, but we have allowed no vector for the contagion to infect this new network.”

Quote from: A Bonfire of Worlds, Ch01
Suddenly an indicator flickered from green to yellow. Flux was climbing in the primary coil. Again. Tucker stood, his hands balled into fists. I’ve seen this before, he thought. But it’s impossible.

There is no virus.

Quote from: A Bonfire of Worlds, Ch03
“Think,” said Tucker, “We’ve scrubbed millions of lines of code looking for the virus, we’ve spent hundreds of man-years checking and rechecking the network, and then you gave up and rebuilt everything from scratch. And it still doesn’t work.

“Wow,” said Patricia flatly, “you really are a genius.”

“Don’t you see?” said Tucker. “We’ve spent so much time investigating the signal and we’ve found nothing. Maybe it’s not the wave, but the water.”

“I don’t follow,” said Buhl slowly.

“I’m talking about the medium. If nothing’s wrong with the signal, there must be something wrong with the medium.”

Buhl’s face contorted into a question. “You think there’s something wrong with . . . hyperspace? What kind of phenomenon could possibly affect hyperspace?”

Quote from: Era Report: 3145, p12
Most appeared to have been taken down by some sort of system virus, which caused the core of the HPG itself to overload and burn out with little collateral damage. But after several years of crawling through layers of antiquated code and generations of interweaving patches and kludged-together upgrades, ComStar’s best programmers found nothing. On top of that, brand new cores, when installed in malfunctioning generators, showed exactly the same symptoms before themselves burning out.

The physical attacks were to take care of any HPGs that weren't affected by whatever brought 80% of them down, whatever that may be. A virus is not required for that.
« Last Edit: 05 March 2014, 06:01:21 by roosterboy »

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #18 on: 05 March 2014, 06:33:12 »
Whilst we can assume that comstar (evil reborn comstar) was behind Grey Monday perhaps they managed to get their mittens on The Society's virus that borked Clan HPG's in the homeworld and used that as well or at least as a layout for what ever caused the problem.
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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #19 on: 05 March 2014, 06:41:27 »
Why would ComStar be behind Grey Monday? It's lead to their slow and agonising death.
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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #20 on: 05 March 2014, 07:52:25 »
Thanks for the list from Sarna, Bob... but that is actually just Roosterboy's list which I snitched from a similar earlier thread on this forum (with his kind permission), including the references.

Yeah; I thought there might have been differences, but checked after posting... At least it confirms his list.
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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #21 on: 05 March 2014, 09:26:11 »
Why would ComStar be behind Grey Monday? It's lead to their slow and agonising death.
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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #22 on: 05 March 2014, 09:29:13 »
touché
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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #23 on: 05 March 2014, 09:40:05 »
My pet theory is that it was this mysterious "Triumvirate" mentioned in 25 YOAAF.
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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #24 on: 05 March 2014, 10:54:53 »
Whilst we can assume that comstar (evil reborn comstar) was behind Grey Monday perhaps they managed to get their mittens on The Society's virus that borked Clan HPG's in the homeworld and used that as well or at least as a layout for what ever caused the problem.


If it were a virus (Roosterboy has convinced me it is not) then it would be a whole lot more likely the homeworld clans themselves did it.  They have pretty good knowledge of the SLOT viruses according to WoR.  I'm sure they could figure out away to weaponized it on a larger scale.

But since they didn't burn Terra immediately following, or die trying I doubt they did it.


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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #25 on: 05 March 2014, 11:20:43 »
Unless they were waiting for an Inner Sphere which never fully rebuilt to 3050s military numbers to engulf itself in a series of wars which stretched each nation to its breaking point.  Because let's face it, the residents of Springfield are less belligerent than the House Lords.
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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #26 on: 05 March 2014, 11:37:56 »
Yeah; I thought there might have been differences, but checked after posting... At least it confirms his list.

Because it is my list. ;)

Except that we've seen nothing to suggest that the Wyatt HPG has failed after being restored by Tucker Harwell. In fact, Bonfire indicates it's still operating in 3143.

And, contrary to the note, the story in 25 Years of Art and Fiction has Gray Monday occurring on 7 August, not 1 August.

Whilst we can assume that comstar (evil reborn comstar) was behind Grey Monday

Since they seem to have no clue what really caused the Blackout nor how to fix it, I don't think that's a safe assumption.

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #27 on: 05 March 2014, 12:28:36 »
Speaking of the Blackout. It seems to me that contrary to what we've been led to believe by FASA and Fanpro, the great houses can wage war just fine without HPGs. Though I will admit that I am still in the middle of ER and FM 3145  :P

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #28 on: 05 March 2014, 14:15:33 »
[deleted]
« Last Edit: 30 March 2014, 19:15:22 by kaliyama »

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Working HPGs in the Dark Age?
« Reply #29 on: 05 March 2014, 14:24:18 »
Speaking of the Blackout. It seems to me that contrary to what we've been led to believe by FASA and Fanpro, the great houses can wage war just fine without HPGs. Though I will admit that I am still in the middle of ER and FM 3145  :P

Salients like the Desant and the Palmyra Thumb would be untenable with a fully working communications network.  (see what happened to the historical Tamarind Salient..)

In this era, they might actually be defensible since strategic coordination necessary to cut them off is so difficult.  If this theory is correct, it certainly supports that in this era there is a new, very favorable, dimension to being the aggressor.
« Last Edit: 05 March 2014, 14:26:56 by Tai Dai Cultist »