M1 Abrams

[mike19k]

On a different thread we were talking about how stupid it was that infantry can hurt mechs with there rifle, but that the M1 can not with its main gun. TPTB have said its main gun would be a light rifle, one of the other guys said that if you go with the light rifle the 63 tons tank is so over armored that it will just ram you to death. So I made one that I was trying to use Real to Battletech stats. For the MG's I went LMG for the M240, the MG is the M2, I am guessing each shot from the LMG/MG is about ten rounds, the vehicle grenade launcher is to represent the smoke grenades (it has two shoots, and two reloads that have to be manually reloaded). I really think it should be faster but going with official speeds here is my take.


Modified - To correct spelling

[David CGB]

Nice
thank you for this

[Daryk]

I think 13 tons of ammunition might be a little high...

[mike19k]

I think 13 tons of ammunition might be a little high...

That may be true, but it has 40 main gun rounds, 20,000 rounds for the Coax, 1200 rounds for the loaders MG, and 1000 rounds for the .50 Cal. I have not done the math to see how much that would weigh in real life.

Update - I just did some quick math, and yes the 13 tons of ammo is high, but I was going with the thought that a MG burst was about ten rounds, based on the weight they are firing well over 250 rounds per ten second turn. But the main gun ammo would also be lighter, heck lots of stuff today is lighter.

[Daryk]

Some quick research turns up about 3 kg per 100 rounds of belted 7.62mm, 21,200 rounds would be 636 kg.  .50 cal rounds are about 125g each with a link, so 1,000 of them would be 1.25 tons.  That cuts the machine gun ammunition from 10.5 tons to 2 with rounding.

[Giovanni Blasini]

It's also worth noting that the Abrams would probably be built as a support vehicle, as XTRO 1945 illustrates.

[Maingunnery]

It's also worth noting that the Abrams would probably be built as a support vehicle, as XTRO 1945 illustrates.

Well here is my attempt:


late 20th century MBT    
Tech Level:    B   
Crew:   4   
Mass:   (11 slots)   63 Tons
Motive System:    Tracked   
Chassis   (armored):    18,5
Engine:    (3/5) ICE   32
Fuel: (312 km)   1
Armor: (BAR 5)   79 points   5
    Fwd   22   
    Sides   15   
    Aft   11   
    Turret   16   
1 Light Rifle (Turret)      3
@Light Rifle (36)      2
Var. Infantry Weapons (Turret)      0,5
Turret Mechanism      0,5
Fire control, Basic      0,5

Concerning the fuel range: I am not counting the 'exterior' fuel tank. I also see the machine guns and grenade launchers as various Infantry Weapons and should not be doing any damage.

[Liam's Ghost]

An earlier attempt of mine. I don't hold to the notion of the Abrams main gun being a light rifle, so I went with a medium. I went with BAR 6 armor and tech C for the engine. Finally, I really don't think the machineguns on an abrams are really heavy enough to be considered battletech vehicle scale machineguns (I tend to think of those as closer to the 25mm chaingun on a bradley and the like). So I handled the secondary machineguns with a custom design quirk:

Design Quirk: Antipersonnel Weapons (1 point): the unit is equipped with one or more small Antipersonnel weapons mounted in any location desired (most commonly the turret). These weapons function as a single light machinegun with the following exceptions: First, ammunition is not tracked. Second, attacks with antipersonnel weapons are only able to damage conventional infantry, battle armor, and heavier units with a barrier armor rating of 4 or less. Any other units take no damage. This quirk may be taken up to three times to account for especially heavy antipersonnel weaponry.

Tech Level: C
Mass: 62 tons (11 slots)
Motive System: Tracked
Chassis: 18.5 tons (armored)
Engine: 21 tons (3/5)
Fuel: 1 ton (476.2 km)
Armor: (BAR 6) 128 points, 6.5 tons
40 Fwd, 23 Sides, 20 Aft, 22 Turret
 
Weapons and Equipment
Medium Rifle (turret) 5 tons
Turret Mechanism, 0.5 tons
Supercharger
7 tons ammunition

Note: Armored Chassis modification, Chassis is tech level B, Design Quirk: Antipersonnel Weapons (turret)

[mike19k]

Well here is my attempt:

...

Concerning the fuel range: I am not counting the 'exterior' fuel tank. I also see the machine guns and grenade launchers as various Infantry Weapons and should not be doing any damage.

The grenade launchers are to be the smoke grenades on the out side of the tank, so they would do no damage in B-tech (real life they are WP grenades so do great/bad things to infantry).

[mike19k]

An earlier attempt of mine. I don't hold to the notion of the Abrams main gun being a light rifle, so I went with a medium. I went with BAR 6 armor and tech C for the engine. Finally, I really don't think the machineguns on an abrams are really heavy enough to be considered battletech vehicle scale machineguns (I tend to think of those as closer to the 25mm chaingun on a bradley and the like). So I handled the secondary machineguns with a custom design quirk:

Except that TPTB have said it is a light rifle, I do think you have something with the two M-240's, but the MG is fluffed sometimes as being a .50, so the M-2 BMG would be a battetech machinegun.

[Liam's Ghost]

At one point the powers that be said no twentieth century vehicle would have a barrier armor rating higher than five. They've since changed their minds. The gospel, in this case, is subject to revision.

And I can't remember a time when a battletech machinegun was described as fifty caliber. Source?

[Giovanni Blasini]

Shin Yodama's Phoenix Hawk was described as using 12.7mm MGs, IIRC.  That said, there are plenty of descriptions of them as 20mm, such as on the Scorpion tank.

[Maingunnery]

As far as I am concerned, an 20th century MG should not be considered to be a heavy weapon. I will also assume that MGs in later centuries are a lot meaner and can be counted as BT MGs.

[Daryk]

I think the GAU-19 could qualify as a BT machine gun:

[Giovanni Blasini]

Plenty of depictions of BT MGs on 'Mechs and vehicles show them as gatling type or describe them as "miniguns".

[Daryk]

Yes, and I think even at 12.7mm, the GAU-19 could be considered one (as opposed to several others who lean toward 20mm or larger).

[Brother Jim]

This thread made me think "How would I build a not-Abrams with Dark Ages tech?" So I made 3 and here they are:

Code: [Select]

Type/Model:    Abrams* M1A1
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3067
Config:        Tracked Vehicle
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          70 tons
Power Plant:   280 VOX XL Fusion Supercharger
Cruise Speed:  43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 [86.4] km/h
Armor Type:    Hvy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  1 ER PPC
  1 ER PPC Capacitor
  2 Small Pulse Lasers
  4 Grenade Launchers
  1 ER Medium Laser
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Abrams* M1A1
Mass:          70 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  35 pts Standard               0      7.00
Engine:        280 XL Fusion                 2      8.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      4.00
Engine Supercharger:                         1      1.00
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:   6 [8]
Heat Sinks:     29 Single                    0     19.00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      3.50
Crew: 5 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0      1.50
Armor Factor:  198 pts Hvy Ferro-Fibrous     3     10.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     7         60
   Left / Right Sides:        7      38/38
   Rear:                      7         22
   Turret:                    7         40

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER PPC                 Turret  15          1      7.00
1 ER PPC Capacitor       Turret   5          1      1.00
2 Small Pulse Lasers     Turret   4          2      2.00
4 Grenade Launchers      Turret   0          4      2.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 Targeting Computer                         1      3.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          29         16     70.00
Items & Tons Left:                           3       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        15,400,583 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    1,466 (old BV = 980)
Cost per BV:       10,505.17
Weapon Value:      855 / 855 (Ratio = .58 / .58)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 17;  MRDmg = 11;  LRDmg = 6
BattleForce2:      MP: 4T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 8
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/1,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GH;  Point Value: 15



Code: [Select]

Type/Model:    Abrams* M1A2
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3067
Config:        Tracked Vehicle
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          70 tons
Power Plant:   280 VOX XL Fusion Supercharger
Cruise Speed:  43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 [86.4] km/h
Armor Type:    Hvy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  2 Small Pulse Lasers
  4 Grenade Launchers
  1 ER Medium Laser
  1 Gauss Rifle
  1 Angel ECM Suite
  1 Guardian ECM
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Abrams* M1A2
Mass:          70 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  35 pts Standard               0      7.00
Engine:        280 XL Fusion                 2      8.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      4.00
Engine Supercharger:                         1      1.00
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:   6 [8]
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      3.50
Crew: 5 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0      2.00
Armor Factor:  208 pts Hvy Ferro-Fibrous     3     10.50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     7         63
   Left / Right Sides:        7      41/41
   Rear:                      7         28
   Turret:                    7         35

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 Small Pulse Lasers     Turret   4          2      2.00
4 Grenade Launchers      Turret   0          4      2.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 Gauss Rifle            Turret   0   40     2     20.00
1 Angel ECM Suite        Body     0          1      2.00
1 Guardian ECM           Body     0          1      1.50
1 Targeting Computer                         1      5.00
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment     Body                1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           9         19     70.00
Items & Tons Left:                           0       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        17,010,483 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    1,958 (old BV = 1,426)
Cost per BV:       8,687.68
Weapon Value:      915 / 915 (Ratio = .47 / .47)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 21;  MRDmg = 15;  LRDmg = 9
BattleForce2:      MP: 4T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 8
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GH;  Point Value: 20
                   Specials: ecm



Code: [Select]

Type/Model:    Abrams* M1A3
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3067
Config:        Tracked Vehicle
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          70 tons
Power Plant:   280 VOX XL Fusion Supercharger
Cruise Speed:  43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 [86.4] km/h
Armor Type:    Hvy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  2 Small Pulse Lasers
  4 Grenade Launchers
  1 Heavy PPC*
  1 HPPC Capacitor*
  1 Anti-Missile System
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Abrams* M1A3
Mass:          70 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  35 pts Standard               0      7.00
Engine:        280 XL Fusion                 2      8.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      4.00
Engine Supercharger:                         1      1.00
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:   6 [8]
Heat Sinks:     24 Single                    0     14.00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      3.50
Crew: 5 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0      2.00
Armor Factor:  198 pts Hvy Ferro-Fibrous     3     10.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     7         59
   Left / Right Sides:        7      40/40
   Rear:                      7         26
   Turret:                    7         33

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 Small Pulse Lasers     Turret   4          2      2.00
4 Grenade Launchers      Turret   0          4      2.00
1 Heavy PPC*             Turret  15          1     10.00
1 HPPC Capacitor*        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 Anti-Missile System    Turret   0   24     2      2.50
1 Targeting Computer                         1      3.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          24         17     70.00
Items & Tons Left:                           2       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        15,343,633 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    1,490 (old BV = 996)
Cost per BV:       10,297.74
Weapon Value:      813 / 813 (Ratio = .55 / .55)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 16;  MRDmg = 11;  LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2:      MP: 4T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 8
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GH;  Point Value: 15



[Hellraiser]

Personally I always felt the canon "Rommel-Gauss" was what my "BT-Abrams" would look like.

As such when I gave it a Dark Age flair this is what I came up with.

Decided to not match the 240's since they are in completely different types of mounts & fired in different ways & just mix it up a bit.

          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                   * CUSTOM WEAPON

Type/Model:    Dark Abrams
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3075
Config:        Tracked Vehicle
Rules:         Level 3, Custom design

Mass:          65 tons
Power Plant:   260 Magna Fusion
Cruise Speed:  43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor Type:    Reactive
Armament:     
  1 Gauss Rifle
  1 Small X-Pulse Laser
  1 ER Medium Laser
  1 Light Machine Gun*
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Dark Abrams
Mass:          65 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  35 pts Standard               0      6.50
Engine:        260 Fusion                    0     13.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      7.00
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      3.50
Crew: 5 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0      2.00
Armor Factor:  176 pts Reactive              2     11.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     7         45
   Left / Right Sides:        7      40/40
   Rear:                      7         20
   Turret:                    7         31

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Gauss Rifle            Turret   0   24     2     18.00
1 Small X-Pulse Laser    Turret   3          1      1.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 Light Machine Gun*     Turret   0  100     2      1.00
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment     Body                1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           8          9     65.00
Items & Tons Left:                           9       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        3,453,313 C-Bills
Battle Value:      769
Cost per BV:       4,490.65
Weapon Value:      658 / 658 (Ratio = .86 / .86)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 20;  MRDmg = 13;  LRDmg = 7
BattleForce2:      MP: 4T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 7
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GH;  Point Value: 8

[Maingunnery]

I think that a logical progression throughout the centuries is needed, so here:


21st century MBT
Tech Level:   C   
Crew:   4   
Mass:   50 tons (10 slots)   50
Motive System:   Tracked   
Chassis:   (armored)   13
Engine:   (3/5) ICE   17
Fuel:   (580 km)   1
Armor (Bar 7)   104 points   6
   Fwd   26   
   Sides   20   
   Aft     15   
   Turret   23   
1 Medium Rifle (Turret)      5
@Medium Rifle (27)      3
1 Machine Gun (Front)      0,5
@Machine Gun (100)      0,5
Minesweeper (Front)      3
Turret Mechanism      0,5
Fire control, Basic      0,5


      
22nd century MBT
Tech Level:   C   
Crew:   4   
Mass:   50 tons (10 slots)   50
Motive System:   Tracked   
Chassis:   (armored)   13
Engine:   (4/6) Fusion   19,5
Fuel:      0
Armor (Bar 7)   104 points   6
    Fwd   26   
    Sides   20   
    Aft   15   
    Turret   23   
1 Medium Rifle (Turret)      5
@Medium Rifle (36)      4
1 Machine Gun (Front)      0,5
@Machine Gun (200)      1
Turret Mechanism      0,5
Fire control, Basic      0,5

      
      
23rd century MBT
Tech Level:   D   
Crew:   4   
Mass:   75 tons (12 slots)   75
Motive System:   Tracked   
Chassis:   (armored)   17
Engine:   (4/6) Fusion   19,5
Fuel:      0
Armor (Bar 9)   154 points   9
    Fwd   40   
    Sides   31   
    Aft   21   
    Turret   31   
2 Heavy Rifle (Turret)      16
@Heavy Rifle (54)      9
1 Machine Gun (Front)      0,5
@Machine Gun (200)      1
Turret Mechanism      2
Fire control, Basic      1