Maxim Heavy Hover Tank refits

[Black_Knyght]

So I have more Maxim's now than I know what to do with, since a friend gave me a few of his (He hates the look of the old sculpt and bought some of the new sculpts instead). I didn't need any more infantry carriers, so I thought I'd "refit" them as combat support vehicles instead. Here are a few versions I'm considering incorporating, posted for your review and evaluation.  ;)



Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK1 Refit)

Code: [Select]

Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK1 Refit)
IS Hover Tank
50 tons 
BV: 1,103
Cost: 2,569,000 C-bills

Movement: 8/12 (Hover)
Engine: 165

Internal: 25
Armor: 161 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Front                       5       40
Right                       5       32
Left                        5       32
Rear                        5       25
Turret                      5       32

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
LRM 5                           FR     2
LRM 5                           FR     2
LRM 5                           TU     2
ER Large Laser                  TU    12
Machine Gun                     TU     0
Machine Gun                     TU     0
Machine Gun                     TU     0
Machine Gun                     TU     0

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LRM 5 Ammo                      BD    24
LRM 5 Ammo                      BD    24
Half Machine Gun Ammo           BD   100

AND


Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK2 Refit)

Code: [Select]

Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK2 Refit)
IS Hover Tank
50 tons 
BV: 1,038
Cost: 2,596,000 C-bills

Movement: 8/12 (Hover)
Engine: 165

Internal: 25
Armor: 116 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Front                       5       28
Right                       5       25
Left                        5       25
Rear                        5       18
Turret                      5       20

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
LRM 5                           FR     2
LRM 5                           FR     2
ER Medium Laser                 TU     5
ER Medium Laser                 TU     5
ER Medium Laser                 TU     5
ER Medium Laser                 TU     5
Machine Gun                     TU     0
Machine Gun                     TU     0

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LRM 5 Ammo                      BD    24
Half Machine Gun Ammo           BD   100

AND


Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK3 Arrow-IV Refit)

Code: [Select]

Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK3 Arrow-IV Refit)
IS Hover Tank
50 tons 
BV: 1,204
Cost: 2,985,000 C-bills

Movement: 8/12 (Hover)
Engine: 165

Internal: 25
Armor: 107 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Front                       5       30
Right                       5       20
Left                        5       20
Rear                        5       16
Turret                      5       21

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Arrow IV                        TU    10
ER Medium Laser                 FR     5
ER Medium Laser                 FR     5

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Arrow IV Ammo                   BD     5
Arrow IV Ammo                   BD     5
Arrow IV Ammo                   BD     5

[blackpanzer]

Is is on purpose that both the first 2 refits have weapons packages that generate more heat than the standard 10 HS is able to handle?

[Black_Knyght]

Not exactly.

MegaMekLab added some extra weight to the weapons when I added them, which I assumed meant it was automatically adding whatever heat sinks were needed. I couldn't find any way to add double heats sinks to vehicles.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

IIRC vehicles don't generate heat

[gomiville]

IIRC vehicles don't generate heat

Ballistic and missile weapons don't generate any heat on combat or support vehicles (or industrial mechs, I think).  Energy weapons, like the lasers on the designs, do generate heat.

Also, I'm pretty sure that, unlike 'mechs, vehicles have to be heat-neutral using single heat sinks.  So you legally have to add enough heat sinks to cover all generated heat.  And, since the Maxim uses an ICE, you need to add power amplifiers too.  (Energy weapons on vehicles are really cranky.)

The extra weight you saw being added, Black_Knyght, was likely the power amplifiers, though I don't see them on the output.

[Black_Knyght]

Interestingly enough MegaMekLab shows that it DID add two tons for heats for the first version, but they don't seem to be allocated anywhere on the text format it produces.

[kalthud]

The 3 text documents are done on Heavy Metal Vee, while not perfect in any way, it is better than MegaMek or Solaris SkunkWorks (IMO).

[blackpanzer]

It is mandatory that vees have to be heat neutral. Ballistic and missile launchers do not generate heat but all energy weapons and plasma do. Movement does not generate heat as well. The vee design programs all automatically increase the number of heat sinks when the heat generated exceed the basic 10 from fusion engines. Power amplifiers are only needed if you're running on ICE - internal combustion engines.

And no, vees cannot use double heat sinks.

All which led to my initial question - was there any reasons to have 2 of your 3 designs generating heat more than 10, and thus required additional tonnage devoted to heat sinks - tonnage which could have been utilised elsewhere.

[kalthud]

I was just inputting the 3 designs into HMVee because my Ninjajedispidey sense was telling me that BK's numbers were just 'off'. The only one I could match exactly was the 3rd one. I myself prefer ballistics and missiles and a single energy weapon that will use most if not all heatsinks, providing that a fusion plant is installed.

[Random]

Both 1 and 2 work out just fine when I input them into MML & HMV.
Not something I'd do with a Maxium (They seem more like Drillson and Condor refits to me) but they are valid as far as I can see.

[gomiville]

BK1 works with a standard fusion engine, but the cost is off slightly (I'm showing 2,448,000cb).

Same with BK2 (cost is 2,535,000cb).

BK3 works too (cost is 2,925,000cb).

Not sure why my costs are coming out differently than the OP.

[Black_Knyght]

When wondering WHY I used the Maxim instead of the Drillson or the Condor, I refer you to what started this in the first place:

So I have more Maxim's now than I know what to do with, since a friend gave me a few of his (He hates the look of the old sculpt and bought some of the new sculpts instead). I didn't need any more infantry carriers, so I thought I'd "refit" them as combat support vehicles instead. Here are a few versions I'm considering incorporating, posted for your review and evaluation.

Additionally, using the exact same settings in HMVee, THIS is what I come up with - The exact same thing I did in MML.


Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK1 Refit) - HMVee

Code: [Select]

          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK1 Refit)
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3100
Config:        Hovercraft
Rules:         Level 2, Modified design

Mass:          50 tons
Power Plant:   165 VOX Fusion
Cruise Speed:  86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type:    Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  1 ER Large Laser
  3 LRM 5s
  4 Machine Guns
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK1 Refit)
Mass:          50 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  25 pts Standard               0      5.00
Engine:        165 Fusion                    0      6.67
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      3.33
    Cruise MP:   8
     Flank MP:  12
Heat Sinks:     12 Single                    0      2.00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      2.50
Crew: 4 Members                              0       .00
Lift Equipment:                              0      5.00
Turret Equipment:                            0      1.00
Armor Factor:  161 pts Ferro-Fibrous         2      9.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     5         40
   Left / Right Sides:        5      32/32
   Rear:                      5         25
   Turret:                    5         32

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 5                  Front    0   24     1      3.00
1 LRM 5                  Front    0          1      2.00
1 LRM 5                  Turret   0   24     2      3.00
1 ER Large Laser         Turret  12          1      5.00
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0  100     2      1.00
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0          1       .50
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0          1       .50
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0          1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          12         12     50.00
Items & Tons Left:                           3       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,569,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      770
Cost per BV:       3,336.36
Weapon Value:      770 / 770 (Ratio = 1.00 / 1.00)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 15;  MRDmg = 13;  LRDmg = 6
BattleForce2:      MP: 8H,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 6
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GM;  Point Value: 8

Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK2 Refit) - HMVee

Code: [Select]

          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK2 Refit)
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3100
Config:        Hovercraft
Rules:         Level 2, Modified design

Mass:          50 tons
Power Plant:   165 VOX Fusion
Cruise Speed:  86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type:    Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  2 LRM 5s
  4 ER Medium Lasers
  2 Machine Guns
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK2 Refit)
Mass:          50 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  25 pts Standard               0      5.00
Engine:        165 Fusion                    0      6.67
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      3.33
    Cruise MP:   8
     Flank MP:  12
Heat Sinks:     20 Single                    0     10.00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      2.50
Crew: 4 Members                              0       .00
Lift Equipment:                              0      5.00
Turret Equipment:                            0       .50
Armor Factor:  116 pts Ferro-Fibrous         2      6.50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     5         28
   Left / Right Sides:        5      25/25
   Rear:                      5         18
   Turret:                    5         20

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 5                  Front    0   24     2      3.00
1 LRM 5                  Front    0          1      2.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0  100     2      1.00
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0          1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          20         12     50.00
Items & Tons Left:                           3       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,596,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      778
Cost per BV:       3,336.76
Weapon Value:      722 / 722 (Ratio = .93 / .93)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 21;  MRDmg = 11;  LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2:      MP: 8H,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 5
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/1,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GM;  Point Value: 8
                   Specials: if

The overall gist of these vehicles is that are from a mercenary unit that suddenly gains a surplus of Maxim's and doesn't need them for troop transports. Not being a group prone to wasting materials or opportunities, they refit the surplus transport vehicles into functional combat vehicles instead. The result is the three refits posted.

[Black_Knyght]

And just to be thorough, I rechecked the BK3 Refit too, with the same results.

Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK3 Refit) - HMVee

Code: [Select]

          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK3 Refit)
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3100
Config:        Hovercraft
Rules:         Level 2, Modified design

Mass:          50 tons
Power Plant:   165 VOX Fusion
Cruise Speed:  86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type:    Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  2 ER Medium Lasers
  1 Arrow IV System
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK3 Refit)
Mass:          50 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  25 pts Standard               0      5.00
Engine:        165 Fusion                    0      6.67
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      3.33
    Cruise MP:   8
     Flank MP:  12
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      2.50
Crew: 4 Members                              0       .00
Lift Equipment:                              0      5.00
Turret Equipment:                            0      1.50
Armor Factor:  107 pts Ferro-Fibrous         2      6.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     5         30
   Left / Right Sides:        5      20/20
   Rear:                      5         16
   Turret:                    5         21

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Medium Laser        Front    5          1      1.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Front    5          1      1.00
1 Arrow IV System        Turret   0   15     2     18.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          10          6     50.00
Items & Tons Left:                           9       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,985,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      720
Cost per BV:       4,145.83
Weapon Value:      700 / 700 (Ratio = .97 / .97)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 20;  MRDmg = 15;  LRDmg = 12
BattleForce2:      MP: 8H,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 4
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/3/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GM;  Point Value: 7
                   Specials: artA

[kalthud]

Ever think about putting Thunderbolt-5's on it? You could put 5 (2 in a turret and 3 on the front) with 1 ton of ammo for each launcher.

[Black_Knyght]

I did, but they aren't available for the time period I'm using the Maxims. Our campaign is currently set in the FedCom Civil War during 3063, and T-bolts didn't become available until 3072.

[kalthud]

So close, but yet soooo far away. :'(

[blackpanzer]

In that case... these are rather decent ways to refit Maxims to make them more combat orientated compared to the original.
That said, I don't like the BK2 simply because you have to spend 10 tons on heat sinks for those ER MLs - that's 20% of its weight. I'd suggest dropping them down maybe to standard Mediums, save yourself 8 tons to slap on something else - more or larger LRM launchers, Artemis systems, more ammo, or a combination of all three.

[Liam's Ghost]

I did, but they aren't available for the time period I'm using the Maxims. Our campaign is currently set in the FedCom Civil War during 3063, and T-bolts didn't become available until 3072.

Thunderbolt missiles were available in limited numbers as prototypes as early as the mid 3050s, and were showing up in civilian hands (on solaris) as early as 3063 (on the refitted Bombard). So it's not necessarily out of the question to see a Thunderbolt variant in mercenary hands in 3062 if they have the right friends in the right places and if there aren't a lot of them.

[Black_Knyght]

Suffice it to say that a mercenary unit caught in the middle of a three-way power struggle in the Chaos March during the FedCom Civil War has few friends who might be willing to commit limited numbers of prototypes of a new technology.

[Black_Knyght]

In that case... these are rather decent ways to refit Maxims to make them more combat orientated compared to the original.
That said, I don't like the BK2 simply because you have to spend 10 tons on heat sinks for those ER MLs - that's 20% of its weight. I'd suggest dropping them down maybe to standard Mediums, save yourself 8 tons to slap on something else - more or larger LRM launchers, Artemis systems, more ammo, or a combination of all three.

Yeah, I consider standard MLs over ERMLs too. I also figured I'd get the usual "why didn't you go with ER's" optimizer comments too. Kind of a Catch-22 there.

These are all still prototype designs too, and may still need some tweaking. The main focus here is they're no later than 3063 variants/refits of a base Maxim though, because that's the miniatures I unexpectedly ended up with and the time period when we're playing our campaign.

[Black_Knyght]

Here's another possible refit. Hopefully it's an improvement over the BK2 Refit.


Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK4 Refit) - HMVee

Code: [Select]

          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK4 Refit)
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3062
Config:        Hovercraft
Rules:         Level 2, Modified design

Mass:          50 tons
Power Plant:   165 PowerTech Highlift Fusion
Cruise Speed:  86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type:    ArcShield V Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  2 LongFire V LRM 5s
  1 Light Gauss Rifle
  2 ER Medium Lasers
Manufacturer:  Maxim Transport Industries
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  Maxim New Standard I/O
Targeting & Tracking System:  Maxim New Standard TargetTrack

--------------------------------------------------------

Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK4 Refit)
Mass:          50 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  25 pts Standard               0      5.00
Engine:        165 Fusion                    0      6.67
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      3.33
    Cruise MP:   8
     Flank MP:  12
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      2.50
Crew: 4 Members                              0       .00
Lift Equipment:                              0      5.00
Turret Equipment:                            0      1.50
Armor Factor:  108 pts Ferro-Fibrous         2      6.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     5         28
   Left / Right Sides:        5      23/23
   Rear:                      5         14
   Turret:                    5         20

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 LRM 5s                 Front    0   24     3      5.00
1 Light Gauss Rifle      Turret   0   16     2     13.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
1 ER Medium Laser        Turret   5          1      1.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          10          9     50.00
Items & Tons Left:                           6       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,795,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      855
Cost per BV:       3,269.01
Weapon Value:      598 / 598 (Ratio = .70 / .70)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 19;  MRDmg = 14;  LRDmg = 7
BattleForce2:      MP: 8H,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 4
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/1,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GM;  Point Value: 9

[Black_Knyght]

Here's a another refit suggested by a friend. I'm not personally a fan of ANY version of an AC/2, but worked it up per her suggestion all the same.

Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK5 Refit) - HMVee

Code: [Select]

          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK5 Refit)
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3062
Config:        Hovercraft
Rules:         Level 2, Modified design

Mass:          50 tons
Power Plant:   165 PowerTech Highlift Fusion
Cruise Speed:  86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type:    ArcShield V Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:     
  2 LongFire V LRM 5s
  2 Ultra AC/2s
Manufacturer:  Maxim Transport Industries
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  Maxim New Standard I/O
Targeting & Tracking System:  Maxim New Standard TargetTrack

--------------------------------------------------------

Type/Model:    Maxim Heavy Hover Tank (BK5 Refit)
Mass:          50 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  25 pts Standard               0      5.00
Engine:        165 Fusion                    0      6.67
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      3.33
    Cruise MP:   8
     Flank MP:  12
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      2.50
Crew: 4 Members                              0       .00
Lift Equipment:                              0      5.00
Turret Equipment:                            0      1.50
Armor Factor:  108 pts Ferro-Fibrous         2      6.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     5         28
   Left / Right Sides:        5      23/23
   Rear:                      5         14
   Turret:                    5         20

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 LRM 5s                 Front    0   24     3      5.00
1 Ultra AC/2             Turret   0   45     2      8.00
1 Ultra AC/2             Turret   0          1      7.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           0          8     50.00
Items & Tons Left:                           7       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,367,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      508
Cost per BV:       4,659.45
Weapon Value:      270 / 270 (Ratio = .53 / .53)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 8;  MRDmg = 9;  LRDmg = 6
BattleForce2:      MP: 8H,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 4
                   Damage PB/M/L: 1/1/1,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GM;  Point Value: 5

[kalthud]

I love the AC/2 "screw you, you can't touch this" factor.

[Liam's Ghost]

Suffice it to say that a mercenary unit caught in the middle of a three-way power struggle in the Chaos March during the FedCom Civil War has few friends who might be willing to commit limited numbers of prototypes of a new technology.

Fair enough. They're good concepts regardless.

[Black_Knyght]

I absolutely agree, and as the clock ticks I certainly WILL be adding them. Just can't justify it yet.