Author Topic: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED  (Read 23509 times)

Wrangler

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #120 on: 20 July 2017, 14:10:19 »
The periphary is a steal your cargo cult ^_^ . was a good read and i enjoyed it more than i thought i would. Coulda done without the ilclan teases, thats just poking the bear..get it, cause im a ghostbear ;) *enjoys the groans*
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Maelwys

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #121 on: 20 July 2017, 16:08:15 »
It does seem rather surprising that there aren't more comments about the fact that ICly this product is set in 3250....

YingJanshi

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #122 on: 20 July 2017, 16:38:46 »
It does seem rather surprising that there aren't more comments about the fact that ICly this product is set in 3250....

Only because of that one paragraph...the entirety of the rest of the text is from a report done in the 3150s.

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #123 on: 20 July 2017, 19:50:15 »
Thinking about it, I have a couple of other interlocked theories as to the identity of the Minnesota tribe, and I make no claim to originality as these have probably been thought about before:

1. The Lyrans working alone: That the effects of the Minnesota Tribe's raids (almost exclusively on Kurita soil) worked to draw a good amount of the Dragon's forces to their Periphery border can't be an accident. it would not be out of the realm of possibility that Archon Jennifer had LOKI scrape together the cream of their Star-league Spec equipment, painted them with the livery of a known unit and sent them off with the appearance of coming from the Deep Periphery.

Pros to the theory: Again, that the most direct benefit of the affair was to the LCAF (the old question, "cui bono?"), and that they would have had means to do it. Logistically, it would have been simpler for the Commonwealth to get to the Periphery border undetected than anyone else.
Cons: I'm not sure if LOKI had operatives loyal/fanatical enough to commit suicide to keep the kayfabe going, or to go way out into the Deep Periphery to fool a ComStar survey party. If it was found out, it would mean automatic war between the LC and DC (and a quote about "sleeping giants" could come into play), and a diplomatic black eye to the Lyrans.

2. ComStar stirring the pot: We know that ComStar was very willing to keep the Successor States at each others' throats, and what better way to make sure that happened then to force one to expose their throat to another? ComStar had hidden caches of Star-League equipment, and archives on the SLDF and so would have been in a prime position to spoof a SLDF remnant attack.
Pros: Means, motive and opportunity. they would have had operatives loyal enough to commit suicide, and we have only the Explorer Corps' word for how far they tracked the Tribe's trail. it would have been ludicrously easy for the highest levels of ComStar to have faked that or just flat-out lied about it.
Cons: Possibly too many moving parts -- SOMEONE would have had to have noticed ComStar moving numbers of military-grade Dropships and Jumpships to the Periphery border, at a time that ComStar could still ill afford to be caught out as a military power in their own right. If found out, would Jinjiro have stood for it, even though retaliation could have meant an interdict? Or would he have tried to seize every HPG he could?

3. ComStar and the Commonwealth working together: Not directly, as ComStar wouldn't want to risk exposing themselves to anyone yet, but through several intermediaries -- say a Star League staybehind or Mercenary unit who "just happened" to offer their services to the Commonwealth for the scheme. That would possibly negate the "hmmm... why is the phone company moving a sizable amount of heavy military equipment through Lyran space?" questions.
Pros: The best of both worlds -- both ComStar and the Commonwealth have plausible deniability, ComStar can still lie about having tracked the tribe out to the Deep Periphery.
Cons: At some point the conspiracy becomes so big that it seems implausible that someone wouldn't have talked. There's still the issue of everyone in the raiding parties being so committed to the masquerade that they'd willingly commit suicide for it.

The common thread: In any case, we have to account for the Minnesota/331st logo on the BattleMechs that gave the tribe their name. It's possible (and for the purposes of this theory likely) that the culprits picked the livery of a unit that they knew to have gone on the Exodus with Kerensky without knowing their ultimate fate (there was no way that ComStar or the Lyran Commonwealth could have conceivably known about the NotNamed Clan) and they just happened on one that would centuries down the line spark unintended-at-the-time speculation.
« Last Edit: 20 July 2017, 19:54:18 by Pat Payne »

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #124 on: 20 July 2017, 19:53:25 »
Why does the "quote" button have to be right next to the "modify" button? :)

ColBosch

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #125 on: 20 July 2017, 20:00:26 »
Nice theories. We've gotten so wrapped up in "the Tribe was Wolverines" that we forget that even that aspect of the story isn't confirmed.
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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #126 on: 21 July 2017, 01:39:37 »
But we do know that, unbeknownst to the Lyrans, ComStar or anyone else in the Inner Sphere for that matter, Trish Ebon's group of Wolverine survivors had the equipment of the 331st in their possession when they fled to the Inner Sphere. Would be one hell of a coincidence if a faux operation got that right. As an extreme stretch, you could argue that real Wolverine survivors could have had a hand in the setup to create a false trail for the Clans and distract them.

What really seals it for me though was that Randall Bills, with Line Developer hat on, said people who wanted to know about the Minnesota Tribe should go read Betrayal of Ideals.
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ColBosch

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #127 on: 21 July 2017, 02:04:49 »
Or someone stumbled on the abandoned wreck of a Wolverine 'Ship, realized the potential for really screwing with the Kuritans, and went for it. I mean, why the hell would Clan Wolverine give two craps about a Kuritan prison? We do not have a canon, consistent narrative stretching from Clan Wolverine to the Minnesota Tribe to whatever happened next.
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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #128 on: 21 July 2017, 02:19:30 »
True, it has not been spelled out yet. However, despite the fact that the ultimate fate of Clan Wolverine (or the Minnesota Tribe) is unknown (with all the accompanying bellyaching), it's pretty much case closed that the Minnesota Tribe was Clan Wolverine (or specifically Ebon's group). There's no obfuscation or twist there, even if in-universe there's no solid evidence.

That mystery was resolved: Minnesota Tribe was Clan Wolverine.
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ColBosch

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #129 on: 21 July 2017, 02:22:26 »
Until someone fills in the missing information, anyway. Hey Ray, can I come write for BattleTech again? I don't have a secret agenda, I promise. ;D
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Pat Payne

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #130 on: 21 July 2017, 03:08:35 »
it's pretty much case closed that the Minnesota Tribe was Clan Wolverine (or specifically Ebon's group). There's no obfuscation or twist there, even if in-universe there's no solid evidence.

That mystery was resolved: Minnesota Tribe was Clan Wolverine.

Then my apologies for muddying the waters unintentionally. OTOH, it's not a BattleTech thread without well-thought-out (if unfounded) speculation  :)

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #131 on: 21 July 2017, 03:15:51 »
True, it has not been spelled out yet. However, despite the fact that the ultimate fate of Clan Wolverine (or the Minnesota Tribe) is unknown (with all the accompanying bellyaching), it's pretty much case closed that the Minnesota Tribe was Clan Wolverine (or specifically Ebon's group). There's no obfuscation or twist there, even if in-universe there's no solid evidence.

Mendrugo pointed that there's a gap in the timing of that but.

Frabby

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #132 on: 21 July 2017, 05:08:14 »
Mendrugo pointed that there's a gap in the timing of that but.
Not that I'm aware of. Mendrugo worked out that there could be up to three distinct groups of Wolverine survivors, and the one with the gap in timing was the missing scout force he theorized would have become the Umayyads.

Trish Ebon's group becoming the Minnesota Tribe was pretty clear-cut.
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ActionButler

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #133 on: 21 July 2017, 06:47:26 »
That mystery was resolved: Minnesota Tribe was Clan Wolverine.

QUICK!
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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #134 on: 22 July 2017, 16:18:35 »
Sorry, that was me. Can't stand Gary Stus.  O:-)
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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #135 on: 27 July 2017, 06:15:50 »
I mean, why the hell would Clan Wolverine give two craps about a Kuritan prison?

Thats obvious enough. They needed replacement population for all the people dead on Barbados. Saving all those people from the Dracs gets them people completely unrelated to their current population (genetic diversity, ahoy!) AND gets them people who will be thankful for their rescue from hellish prison camps and slave labor.

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #136 on: 27 July 2017, 08:45:38 »
Thats obvious enough. They needed replacement population for all the people dead on Barbados. Saving all those people from the Dracs gets them people completely unrelated to their current population (genetic diversity, ahoy!) AND gets them people who will be thankful for their rescue from hellish prison camps and slave labor.

And gives them a current source of information on the Inner Sphere

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #137 on: 28 July 2017, 11:58:51 »
Sorry, that was me. Can't stand Gary Stus.  O:-)

You skipped over the other Morgan to get the Marshal of the Armies? Clearly your priorities are out of whack.
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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #138 on: 28 July 2017, 22:57:58 »
And gives them a current source of information on the Inner Sphere

  And if you enjoy further intriguing, maybe there was someone or someONES specific they were freeing along with that? With little to no details about their activities other than combat, perhaps they had sent agents ahead to gather Intel and one or more were caught and imprisoned as spies? Effect a rescue to gain info, allies, AND hopefully protect their secret from being revealed under interrogation?
😉

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Re: 2nd Succession Wars Spoilers: The Minnesota REDACTED
« Reply #139 on: 29 July 2017, 00:40:44 »
  And if you enjoy further intriguing, maybe there was someone or someONES specific they were freeing along with that? With little to no details about their activities other than combat, perhaps they had sent agents ahead to gather Intel and one or more were caught and imprisoned as spies? Effect a rescue to gain info, allies, AND hopefully protect their secret from being revealed under interrogation?
😉

Nah.  Just general purpose techs and laborers to keep the machinery on the farms working for the laborers.  At least, that's what my Wolverine AU says.  Of course, they meet up with that new colony fleet around Valencia, so there's that going for them.
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