Author Topic: Let's build a Colony  (Read 15623 times)

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Let's build a Colony
« on: 25 August 2011, 19:26:43 »
Let's build a Colony
(c) 2011 Fireangel


The first thing we need to figure out is "what kind of colony do we want?" This is an important question, as different types of colonies have different needs.

Numbers given will assume a generally human-compatible environment, where extraordinary measures are not required for basic survival.

A "Drop Colony" is one that is "dropped-off" complete, on-site and expected to thrive and survive for a long time; while new colonists may be brought in, the basis of the colony is monolithic; there are no further waves of colonists and anything that was not brought in gets left behind. The essential part of this colony is to have A) a diverse gene pool; 10,000 colonists as an absolute minimum, preferably 30-50 thousand, with a wide range of skills and knowledge and the tools/supplies to survive at least a year without support while the first crops come in and food can be locally produced. This kind of colony requires a huge initial investment, but should remain self-sufficient afterwards. The down side? One bug can wipe out the entire colony; it does not even have to affect humans directly; an alien disease, fungus or pest wipes out the crops (plural; the year-long supplies are in case the first 1-2 crops fail); starvation is the result. Bad weather (the people who selected this world for colonization did not have enough data to realize that it was entering a cycle of draught or an ice age), natural disasters (hurricanes, earthquakes, the ubiquitous sci-fi meteor strike, Ceti Alpha VI exploding) or biological catastrophe (does not have to be a bug) can potentially destroy the colony; for the most part, evacuation is not an option; colony ships don't grow on trees (well, maybe elven ships in a Spelljammer setting, but that is kind of extreme), so even assuming that word could get out of the disaster, a massive effort would have to take place to carry and feed that many colonist survivors. Considering that in canon the Monarch can carry 400 passengers (if all quarters are converted to steerage), it would take 25 of them to carry just 10,000 colonists... supplies notwithstanding.

A "corporate" or "industrial" colony is established to produce... something. It is basically a factory. It is not really a colony in the traditional sense, since its primary function is to produce material for export. It can be relatively small (the crew of a factory, with or without dependents), but it usually brings more people in; not just dependents, but support personnel who in many cases are employees of the company that establishes the colony. The colony can be built up in short, dedicated stages and may even produce material for its own needs, but imports and exterior contact will be frequent; anything needed will be brought in the next supply ship (which will take out the material produced so far). Self-sufficiency is NOT the goal of this type of colony, though in favorable conditions it can happen; medical response tends to be swift and if there is a major disaster, the company will usually either evacuate its personnel (at least key personnel) or bring in relief supplies for its people. If there is space, others may be evacuated too or extra supplies may be brought; letting entire colonies die is bad PR. Since these colonies are built in blocks, colony ships are not really needed; regular cargo and passenger transports can be pressed into service.

A "seed" colony is a different animal; its main purpose is to build up a colony in stages from the ground up. The initial wave of colonists numbers about 2,500 and does not need to be as genetically diverse (or as carefully selected) as a "drop" colony. They are dropped off with enough supplies for 4-8 months (until they can get at least one crop in; genetically engineered grains can be made to grow in as quickly as 3 months under the right conditions; selecting the right time of the planetary year to drop off the colony is critical to the amount of supplies left behind). They are left with enough equipment, grain and machinery to build a small colony and pave the way for the next wave of colonists by building the infrastructure of the colony; power, water, sewage, communications, roads, farms, housing, etc. While still vulnerable to disasters, a 90% loss of a 2,500 colony in its first year is not as bad as a 90% loss in a 50,000 drop colony.

The second wave starts arriving in 3-4 years and numbers about 10,000, but they do not all come in at once; every few months, a colony ship arrives with about 1,000-2,500 second-wave colonists; much like the first wave, but with more specialized equipment, materials and personnel. The second-wave's primary goal is to prepare the colony for the third wave of colonists; about 50,000 who will be start arriving about five years after the second wave. Some of the second wave's subgroups will be much like smaller-scale versions of the first wave, creating new sub-colonies (commonly known as "towns") away from the primary colony (commonly known as "the capital") and readying them as centers for farming communities. Other sub-groups in the second wave will be highly specialized; mining and refining operations (crew and dependents), more advanced factory components for building basic items totally (or primarily) on-world (like food storage and processing/packing equipment), rather than rely on imported parts.

The third wave also comes in smaller groups over a period of time; less basic equipment is brought in (enough to continue to increase food production and other essential necessities to math projected demand by the time the fourth wave arrives) and more "supplemental" equipment and supplies, such as complex microprocessors for locally manufactured goods, metals and materials not produced locally (yet), like hard-to extract/process raw metals and alloys. A higher colonist-to-supply ratio is seen during this wave; a ratio that will continue shrinking with subsequent waves.

The fourth wave begins about 5-8 years after the third wave and consists of about 200,000 to 250,000 colonists, arriving in smaller groups over the course of the next 5-10 years; as well as additional mini-colonies to start up new towns and more specialized groups to exploit harder-to-work mines/refineries... jobs), more specialized personnel (and their families) start coming in. Local universities are established at this point (population can sustain such an institution and children born in the colony are coming of age; higher education of the children of the colony's earlier waves (if warranted by the local primary teachers and test scores) is performed either off-world or long-distance, through correspondence via HPG or "snail mail" via jumpship.

By the end of the fourth wave, 15-20 years have passed and the first "colony grandchildren" born from the first children actually born in the colony should be making their appearance. A fifth (and final) wave of colonists can be brought in at this point; the ratio of colonist-to-equipment ratio is smaller and the wave of about 500,000 colonists is brought in over the course of the next 10-20 years.

By the end of this fifth wave, the planet has a population of about a million people. Interestingly, the oldest first-wave colonists (assuming the first wave did not include 70+ "geriatrics", which it shouldn't) will start dying of old age. The colony is now (nominally) self-sufficient, with a broad genetic diversity, wide range of skills and self-sustaining educational system. Super-high-tech components and finished products might still need to be imported, but even without these imports, the colony can thrive at a lower tech level, eventually developing its own high-tech industry.

New colonists may continue to come in, but the native infrastructure is primed to expand as needed.

Also note that at any wave, the colonial influx can stop cold and it would not be a disaster; each wave is self-sufficient and equipped to handle a larger number of colonists from the next wave, so (barring agricultural catastrophe) famine should not be an issue and technological recuperation can take place sooner, rather than later... unlike what happens with drop colonies; if they did not survive the first year, chances of recovery is abandoned become increasingly slim as time passes. At a critical level, hunting and gathering becomes the only viable solution, along with primitive farming methods, which yields enough food for but a fraction of the original colonists after a big die-off, a much smaller group might be able to thrive at a substantially lower technological level, as happened canonically in countless BT worlds.


Note that this is in a relatively human-friendly world; if the flora and fauna are inedible, actively hostile or both, chances drop significantly. Low water supply, bad air, extreme temperatures make things even worse. If high technology is needed to merely survive (dome settlements), abandonment equals failure and death of the colony; the only question is how long they can delay it.


Other colony types exist, but most of these are variations on the others; ARK colonies have a small initial group, but carry the DNA of many other individuals to maintain genetic diversity; these colonies are generally very well thought out and bear many similarities with other successful colony types. "Wildcat" colonies are essentially small-scale drop colonies, sometimes well thought out with specially selected personnel, additional supplies and equipment; but just as often these wildcat colonies are ill-prepared, with poor survival/farming skills, poor supplies and/or extremely poor leadership.

There is also the "survivor" colony; usually unintentional after a disabling failure of the jumpship; assuming it was not carrying an actual colony, the survivors must make do and survive; long term success (defined as reaching a point of self-sufficient sustainability) depends on many factors, including the number, gender and ages of the survivors, the compatibility of their DNA, supplies and equipment available, nature of the environment and skill/leadership abilities.


So who colonizes? Colonial efforts come in two basic flavors with several toppings each; the two basic flavors are sponsored and self-financed.

Sponsored colonies can be sponsored by government ("national"; either planetary, regional or successor state, or "local"; planetary region/country or single planet from a larger region) or by a corporation, which for these purposes includes the military or individuals rich enough to count as corporations (and DON'T go to colonize themselves).

Self-financed colonies are just what they sound like: most often drop or wildcat colonies; the colony either raises their own funds or is funded by a corporation (or individual rich enough to count as a corporation) which DOES go to colonize with the group. This ranges from communes to logging/mining companies seeking new opportunities.

Oh, and penal colonies? The ones intended to eventually thrive on their own tend to be closer to a seed colony pattern, but with less equipment and a longer wave group interval; the ones intended to be all-punishment tend to be closer to the wildcat pattern with periodic influx of "volunteers"; either prisoners, their families (who may choose to go with their loved ones in some cases) or actual volunteers who seek a new economic opportunity.


Where were we? Colony types. For the most part, colony groups tend to be made of like individuals from the source financing the colony; if it is a planetary region (like say, India or Scotland), most individuals will be from that region in all waves; if it is a broader area, like Planet Earth during the original colonial expansion), each distinct group will generally be mostly homogenous; first wave is from Texas (or thereabouts); second wave (of 4-5 groups) might be a group from Kentucky, one from China, one from across the US and one from across Europe. If it is well planned, the groups will be more homogenous for the sake of the colonial harmony. Clearly this was the case more often than not in the BT universe, where not just individual colonies were established by mostly culturally monolithic groups, but nearby worlds were also colonized by like or similar groups; since these groups all came from Earth, it is a reasonable bet that the original colonies were established by individual nations, with later colonists being attracted to colonies of culturally similar makeup to theirs.

Corporate-sponsored colonies might be more culturally diverse, particularly with multi-national corporations, but generally will reflect one or two primary cultural influences (Japan-USA, or Kenya-UK or France-Egypt, or India-Argentina) from which most senior executives and most skilled workers come from.

Self-sponsored colonies range the gamut from entire villages that decide to pick up and relocate to religious leaders taking their followers to "the promised land" to multi-national enterprises to get investors to a new world.

Who gets chosen? Interestingly enough, for well-planned seed colonies, the first few waves must be quite skilled individuals with their families, which may or may not also include skilled individuals, but will include unskilled labor ready and primed for training (i.e. children). The first wave includes skilled farmers, construction workers, surveyors, butchers, carpenters, mechanics, power plant techs, plumbers, teachers and at the very least one medical team (doctor and assistant). If the colony is to be successful, you can't just get warm bodies off the street, shove them in a dropship and drop them off on a planet expecting them to thrive! Farming is hard work. Construction is hard work. Yes, you will need several tiers of skill accomplishment; highly skilled ("doctors"), skilled ("nurses"), semi-skilled ("candy stripers") and unskilled ("orderlies") (Don't slam me: it's just an example; each tier has its own requirements and all have their own requirements and functions), this is the same in every field; architects/project managers/specialists/builders, for example. Preferably, each group in each wave gets a chance to know each other and take some education/training together before shipping. It would be only in the last waves that able-bodied unskilled/semi-skilled labor could be introduced in small groups, but usually to meet specific needs in the established colony.

Colonies that are not as successful don't select as carefully and could end up with critical holes in their skill roster or duplication of function in rarely used skills (like lawyers or CPAs; yes, they are needed, but can you imagine a first wave seed colony with 18 lawyers? I'm a lawyer and the idea makes me want to slam my head against a wall). Without careful screening, individuals unsuited for space travel or colonization might be included.


So why go? Space. Literally. Earth has about 7 billion (7,000,000,000) people living in it today; by the early 2040's it is expected to be 9 billion. There might also be profit to be made out there. And peace. And freedom. And life, liberty and... You know the rest. It is also seen as a grand adventure, even if it is back-breaking HARD work to start a colony. The promise of land or power is also an incentive for the ambitious. It boils down to "it's done" in the BT universe; there is no real need to justify it, especially with the relatively plentiful and cheap space travel options of BT it took 300 years of succession wars to really put a stop to free colonization. But that is another discussion.

Where to go?

Kerensky was an idiot. If he had put three neurons together he would have realized that the Exodus (without a set destination) was a monumentally bad idea. He succeeded by either author fiat or by the grace of God (depending on whether you look at it in-universe or out-of-universe). Only the relatively large proportion of habitable planets in the IS and Periphery allowed him to find a place to land (so marginal that his entire force had to split into 5 planets in order to not strain resources!).

The first phase in the building of a colony takes place months, years or decades before anyone even decides to establish a colony: exploration vessels locate a planet suitable for colonization; right gravity parameters, correct oxygen percentage in the air, no (or easily avoided) toxins in the air or soil, no deadly bugs, no "hunter's paradise" syndrome (all animals are carnivore predators; no herbivores) right seasons. When these worlds are found, they are tagged for further survey; some time later, a survey ship uses sophisticated instruments to map and measure the planet; determine day length, year length, seasons and (more importantly to many sponsors) resources. This may be done in various ways which are not mutually exclusive; survey craft, satellites, landing and outpost. The survey may take a few days (perhaps leaving a survey satellite in place to continue surveying) or it may take years; either continuous (with a manned outpost on-world or in orbit) or through periodic visits. This established the basic knowledge of the planet and helps determine the best location to establish the capital (i.e. the fist wave's landing site) for maximum survivability and convenient access to resources.

Either after the survey is completed, or while the survey is still taking place, the actual planning for the colony takes place; recruiting, funding and if necessary, chartering the ships (which might need booking months or years in advance.

Ever notice that the first Terran colonies were all within a jump or two of Earth? This is because of several important reasons; endurance and supplies. Yeah, and jump radius. Duh.

Look; jumpships take about a week to recharge the drive. Forget LFB's; this is a luxury best avoided for colonial purposes; I'll explain: The average transit time for a jumpship is... well, let's say a week, for simplicity's sake. Assuming the jumpship is all charged up when the dropship arrives, it will take a minimum of three weeks to get to a colony world two jumps away. An LFB will cut this time by a week. If the destination is three jumps away, it takes three weeks; four takes four weeks, unless you use the fusion plant to charge the LFB, when it will take three weeks but expend fuel in the process. The more jumps, the longer it takes, but unless you have a boatload of fuel to charge the LFB, or a boatload of cash to plug into recharge stations along the way, it is generally not really worth the cost of an LFB to put it on what is, in essence, a low-end operation where cost is of the essence.

In order to reduce the time of travel to the colony as the number of jumps increases, it makes sense to travel to a staging world closer to the final destination; preferably as few jumps away as possible Let's say that total transit time ideally should be under three months; we'll assume three months standard for the calculations we'll be making below.

So let's get there. What do we need? Jumpship, obviously. Duh. But does it have to be a compact-core "warship" with massive cargo capacity? Or can it be a standard-core jumpship? To determine that, we first need to determine exactly what is going to be carried, how it will be carried and why it needs to be carried.

Let's start with the colonists themselves. Let's assume this is a seed colony, since it is the type that usually has the most planning involved for long term success; the first wave is 2,500 people. How do we carry them? We could go the "el-cheapo" way and assign them to 90 foot infantry bays; this would be a bad idea; it would require a huge amount of consumables to supply these "bay personnel" for the 3-month (100 days actually; makes math easier) of the voyage and, realistically, is inhuman conditions for the families, which include children. So let's assign them to steerage quarters; 2,500 x 5 tons = 12,500 tons. We don't use 7-ton "standard" quarters because that would save 5,000 tons from the carrying craft; economy of mass; perhaps 100 or so might be reserved as second-class or first class, for the highly skilled and the colony leaders, but remember that this includes the families, so if there are two colony leaders, each with a spouse and 2 children, you'll need 8 first-class quarters, leaving second class quarters for about 20 other families. Still, for basic calculations, we are assuming everybody in steerage.

12,500 tons in quarters.

How much to they consume? Standard rule in BT is 1 ton = 200 man/days. Since we are calculating for a 100-day journey, that is a half ton per colonist; 1,250 tons.

We also have to supply them for when they reach the colony; supplies enough to keep everyone hale and hearty at least until the first crops come in (dropping them off during the right time of year; i.e. the "planting season" is critical); since genemod grain can grow frighteningly quickly (about 3-4 months; some real-world grains actually do that). A well-planned and organized seed colony will plan for two failed plantings; about six months of consumables, for our purposes, 200 days, or 2,500 tons.

That is a total of 3,750 tons of consumables.

But what about the stuff they will actually plant in the ground? OK. Here things get a bit complicated and you'll have to trust me on the numbers, which are approximations based on current real-world yields. The first thing you need to understand is the concept of seed. Traditionally, seed is the amount of grain that you reserve after the harvest so you can plant again the following season. In the modern sense, seed is treated differently; it is sprayed with pest repellents and weed-killers and all sorts of things that preserve and protect it in order to maximize its output yield. It can even be coated with micronutrients so that it can help make its own fertilizer in bad soil (the tech exists today; you can buy it at your local garden-mart in little fruit and vegetable seed packets). How much product is produced from seed is termed "percentage of seed output"; in other words, the percentage of a crop that is reserved for seed; currently, it stands at around 5-10% depending on crop; given high tech in BT, let's keep to the minimum of 5% (even through the succession wars, populations soared across the inner sphere).

As an aside; in modern industrial farming, often no grain is reserved for seed; instead, entire crops of grain for seed are grown and sold to other farmers for planting; this may eventually happen in the colony, but for the most part, seed will have to be saved from crop to crop.

So how much seed will be needed? First, understand that several types of grain will be carried; we will assume (for simplicity's sake) that they all have about the same seed-to-yield percentages (wonders of modern technology). So whatever the output we need, we will need 5% of that amount for seed. Twice. Two crops, remember? So 10% of what is required for the yield must be carried as cargo. But we still don't know how much we actually need!

A per capita sounds good. There are 2,500 colonists so we will need... hm... combining several statistics and taking some pretty dang liberal guesses with averages, we can say that (based on approximately a 150kg per capita worldwide combined consumption of wheat and rice) that approximately 15-20 kg (total) of (different types of) seed is required per colonist. 2,500 colonists = 37,500 kg (37.5 tons) to 50,000 kg (50 tons). Let's use the 50-ton figure to account for fruits, roots and vegetables.

50 tons of seed for the colonists.

What about fertilizer, I hear you ask? Like I said; for the colonists. They need livestock too.

Livestock; for simplicity's sake we'll assume a half-ton's worth of livestock for every human colonist (about a head of cattle [including milking cows], a pig (unless it is a halal or kosher colony), two sheep (more if kosher or halal), a bunch of chickens/other poultry and a bunch of earthworms and other assorted animals, including pets) - about 1,250 ton's worth; this takes up a little over 1,400 tons of cargo space in livestock pens.

1,400 tons of livestock cargo bays.

For average's sake (not wanting to calculate the individual needs of seed cattle (only about 1 in 10 of the cattle are bulls used for... seed), milking cows, sheep and chickens), we'll assume 50kg of consumables per day per ton; in this case, 62.5 tons per day; 300 days (100 in transit plus six months on the ground) is 18,750 tons. Oh... and all that feed... that's also fertilizer. Now you might understand why colony ships are not considered "sexy".

18,750 tons of livestock feed.
1,875 tons of seed for livestock feed.

Mind you, we are not saying every colonist will have a cow in their yard! Not at all; the livestock will be mostly in farms with the equipment required to process product (milk, cheese, eggs) and butcher the animals (meat) and store it. Every colonial homestead would be expected to keep a small vegetable garden for personal use, supplemented by more professionally cultivated produce.

Then we have vehicles; transportation, farming and construction; let's say 400 tons (packed as cargo) with another 600 tons of machinery, parts and repair equipment, along with basic fabrication machinery for working raw materials. Here we also include the basic fusion power generator for the colony. The vehicles of the first wave will more likely than not be fusion/solar/fuel cell powered (using the fusion plant to generate [crack water] the hydrogen used for fuel).

1,000 tons vehicles and equipment.

How about personal equipment, electronics, construction materials? That is the "plasticrete mix" or whatever, textiles and refrigerator, washer/dryer, trid set... an average of a ton per person seems reasonable; any additional raw materials can be easily obtained form the transport containers used to carry the... well, everything of the colony; canonically these containers come in 10-ton and 25-ton capacity, so there should be A LOT of them; most of the early homesteads and buildings will be "intermodal chic" in style.

So 2,500 tons of personal/home equipment.


Let's review before I lose count:

12,500 tons in quarters.
1,400 tons of livestock cargo bays.

3,750 tons of consumables.
18,750 tons of livestock feed.
50 tons of seed for the colonists.
1,875 tons of seed for livestock feed.
2,500 tons of personal/home equipment.
1,000 tons vehicles and equipment.
27,925


That's 13,900 tons of "quarters" (wow, we could actually upgrade a few of the quarters to second or first class!) and 27,925 tons of cargo; a total of 41,825 tons.

This can all be easily carried in one Behemoth-class dropship. If modified, in one Mammoth. It might be a good idea to have the cattle ride in their own dropship.

Of course, this could all be carried in a single compact-core jumpship, but that would require several operations of loading and unloading of the animals in zero-G and pens on both units. Since all the supplies have to be taken in-system and down to the surface, that is also an issue; it is much simpler to just keep the supplies on the dropships; no real need to transfer anything to the jumpship, so the compact core's massive cargo capacity is not needed at all.

A standard core jumpship can be easily used without modifications, though for the sake of the livestock's health, it might be wise to have one or more grav decks large enough to accommodate the livestock and the civilians (at least in shifts) so we are looking at (a practical minimum) of two canon dropships (or one custom one) and several large grav decks; let's say a thousand ton's worth (5 large JS ones). This means that an Invader modified by having one of its collars exchanged for five large gravdecks (and a cattle-friendly cargo door to them) would serve the colonial transport duties admirably.

What about weapons and defenses?

As a civilian transport, the colonial dropship(s) and jumpship should not be armed at all; to arm the ship is to invite an attacker or raider to open fire on a ship loaded with civilians. Nothing more than an Invader's popguns should be carried (not even that, but StratOps deals with that issue). No colony would ever be established someplace where the possibility of getting shot at during transport is likely. If pirate attacks are feared while in a dangerous area, fighters could be carried or an assault dropship/PWS/CV could be hired as an escort; the colonial ship itself should never have an opponent an excuse to fire on it.

Second wave groups in the seed-colony model should basically follow the same pattern with a much smaller ratio of consumables and a higher concentration of other equipment.


As you can see, building a colony takes more, much more, than just loading a bunch of random people on a ship and shipping them out to a new world with some supplies! I hope this article inspires you to look at colonial operations in a new light and see the inherent possibilities in designing for this exciting venture!

Valles

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 271
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #1 on: 25 August 2011, 20:52:53 »
Hmm.

Two questions.

First, would there be a material benefit to setting up a once-off command circuit of, say, Invaders, rather than going to the trouble of buying/building and modifying a specialist jumpship and then tying it up for however long?

And second, do you have any data or thoughts on setting up a hostile-environment colony rather than a 'shirrtsleeve' one? Obviously, the costs and mechanical plant required will be higher, but by how much?

Khymerion

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2500
    • The Iron Hack
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #2 on: 25 August 2011, 21:00:41 »
A very interesting dissertation and a fun read.   It put to much more explained format the way Starfire handled their massive colonization rules (though theirs is just a bit streamlined).

Now, how about prolonged deep space hydroponics bays?   Build a similar massive set of grav decks to the cattle bays?   Trying to dissect the NASA notes on trying to put a space orbital colony into a format that could be useful has produced less than desirable results.

Thank you for any work you put forward in this regard.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Nikas_Zekeval

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #3 on: 25 August 2011, 21:51:22 »
A very interesting dissertation and a fun read.   It put to much more explained format the way Starfire handled their massive colonization rules (though theirs is just a bit streamlined).

Now, how about prolonged deep space hydroponics bays?   Build a similar massive set of grav decks to the cattle bays?   Trying to dissect the NASA notes on trying to put a space orbital colony into a format that could be useful has produced less than desirable results.

Thank you for any work you put forward in this regard.

Heck the idea of the hydroponic cargo bays on your dropship might make sense as part of the initial colony start up.  Start growing on the way, trundle the 'green house' cargo containers out, and you have both transplant plants and a fall back for a failed conventional harvest.

Depending on how long needed to fully off load the droppers might be on planet for quite a while waiting for a pick up.  Use them as early shelter/base camp till you get the permanent dirtside facilities up and running.

While putting the cattle on their own 'agricultural' dropship is tempting, it does invite a point source of failure if something bad happens to the dropship.  Failure in flight, bad atmospheric entry, failure of gear while landing, etc.
« Last Edit: 25 August 2011, 21:54:09 by Nikas_Zekeval »

Khymerion

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2500
    • The Iron Hack
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #4 on: 26 August 2011, 02:49:11 »
That is going to be a possibility no matter what.  There is no way of taking all the chance out of the equation.   If it is possible for a dropship to have survived hundreds of years of continued operation and often while under fire, a mythical feat to say the very least.  It thus could be assumed that it isn't a terrible risk to count on the colonial dropships making it to the surface if they take their time and don't have something akin to the Unity breaking up over Alpha Centauri from the game that it shares it's title or that they are not forced to make a landing in a freak storm.

In essence, if one of the supply ships or worse, the colonist ship, crashes... it goes from a planned colony to a survival one and hope they can hold out long enough for the jumpship to leave and retrieve help...   which might be months away.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Cowdragon

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2921
  • PM me for Ft. Collins CO battletech games
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #5 on: 26 August 2011, 09:29:14 »
Heck the idea of the hydroponic cargo bays on your dropship might make sense as part of the initial colony start up.  Start growing on the way, trundle the 'green house' cargo containers out, and you have both transplant plants and a fall back for a failed conventional harvest.

Depending on how long needed to fully off load the droppers might be on planet for quite a while waiting for a pick up.  Use them as early shelter/base camp till you get the permanent dirtside facilities up and running.

While putting the cattle on their own 'agricultural' dropship is tempting, it does invite a point source of failure if something bad happens to the dropship.  Failure in flight, bad atmospheric entry, failure of gear while landing, etc.

yeah, you don't want to lose all of your meat sources in one accident. But this is where I think a good rule of thumb is REDUNDANCY! :)

Of course, not every colony will have access to 2 cattle dropships (cattle being predominantly a mix of hearty beasts like goats, chickens, pigs, ostriches, and possibly even certain fish species... cows are too temperamental and fragile I would think in most cases however cattle DNA may be useful in this case once a colony is established as they yield far more meat than goats)

Great read btw... took me all night though, lol.

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #6 on: 26 August 2011, 11:44:53 »
Hmm.

Two questions.

First, would there be a material benefit to setting up a once-off command circuit of, say, Invaders, rather than going to the trouble of buying/building and modifying a specialist jumpship and then tying it up for however long?

The argument applies across the board and is far more involved than just a matter of organization.

Privately funded colonies would practically never use a command circuit; it is just too expensive; each jumpship involved must be compensated for its loss of revenue because it is not doing its regular jumps; many ships means a lot of (50,000 per collar per jump; and we are actually paying for the jumps needed to get into position and back, at the very least a percentage).

We usually assume that colonies are established "beyond the borders" of established realms, so while a command circuit can be established within the realm (for example, an Earth colony going out into the periphery), it might be far simpler and economical to use a border world as a staging area, with the colonists, livestock, equipment, vehicles, supplies and even dropships arriving independently and assembling there. How useful and/or practical a command circuit would be depends on many factors; number of jumps in the journey, transit time at both the staging system (which presumably would be short as that would be a good criteria for selecting that system in the first place) and the destination, the amount of supplies carried, the sensitivity to space travel of the specific animal breeds brought...

The main issue is one of supply v. number of jumps; each leg of the command circuit means a week is cut from the journey; if the colony is within 60 LY of the staging system, the expense is simply not worth it. There is a point where the additional supplies required exceed the capacity of the dropship, requiring another dropship to be chartered, but this point depends on the size of the cargo bays of the dropships involved and then goes down again as the new capacity increases.

Without using hard numbers (I have a headache), it's like this;

How much does it cost to add more supplies vs. hiring a second jumpship?
How much does it cost to add more supplies vs. hiring a third jumpship?

At which point do I have to get a second dropship to carry supplies?
Does it cost more to get the second dropship than it does getting another jumpship?

Note that for all intents and purposes, the second dropship doubles the cost of transport. A third dropship will never really be necessary, since it can always be larger; at the point you are contemplating the upgrade to a Behemoth, you should seriously be considering a smaller first wave or a smaller group for the drop.

Quote
And second, do you have any data or thoughts on setting up a hostile-environment colony rather than a 'shirrtsleeve' one? Obviously, the costs and mechanical plant required will be higher, but by how much?

It would depend on just what it is that makes the planet hostile. A world with poor soil (for human-based food production) might require a higher proportion of livestock per colonist; with extra supplies for the colonists (an extra 100-200 days, depending on local conditions), extra seed stocks (again, depending on conditions) and a higher amount seed for the livestock-feeding crops, since grazing is not nutritionally useful.

If the problem is that the soil and native flora and fauna are toxic to humans, it means bringing along additional water purification equipment, MUCH more seed for livestock-feeding crops (grazing is definitely NOT an option) and a much higher proportion of livestock per colonist (great for creating human-friendly fertilizer) and possibly more hydroponic equipment and "greenhouse" building materials.

Once we start into the dome-building colonies, the construction needs are paramount; it is possible that in this case, a construction team is sent ahead of time to build the domes or underground areas for human habitation; these workers may or may not be part of the first wave/drop (leaving with the jumpship that delivered the colonists). The dome equipment itself is not generally transported as part of the colony, unless the plan is to live in the landed dropship until the habitats are functional.

A very interesting dissertation and a fun read.   It put to much more explained format the way Starfire handled their massive colonization rules (though theirs is just a bit streamlined).

Thank you!

Quote
Now, how about prolonged deep space hydroponics bays? 

I know that the Invader art shows something that is canonical, but IMHO, the best way to build and manage  space-bourne hydroponics in in gravdecks. You can calculate the area available for the deck, assume several "levels" each with lighter gravity pull and determine yield based on cultivable area.

Quote
Build a similar massive set of grav decks to the cattle bays?   

Precisely. For space farming (meaning crops and livestock), a set of adjacent grav decks can be constructed; for the livestock (not just cattle!), they would spend most of their time on one, while another one directly adjacent is used to load the dropship; since it can "lock" with the first one (allowing the largest animals to pass from one deck to the other) and then slow/stop independently of the first; this second one would be rotating inside a part of the hull which includes a dropship collar, through which the cattle (really, the larger the animal, the more this is needed) can be moved from the gravdeck to the dropship.

Throughout the voyage, the dropship (let's call it the cattle-ship for convenience) moves feed from its cargo silo containers to the jumpship, which gets it to the livestock (this shipboard feed is laced with "feel-good" drugs to keep the animals calm in the shifting G environment - I'd not be surprised if motion-sickness-resistant animals were routinely bred in-universe) and in a reciprocal (but separate) pumping system, the mint-fresh fertilizer is pumped from the gravdeck's sub-floor through the jumpship to the cattle-ship's hold, right into the already-empty feed containers.

Quote
Trying to dissect the NASA notes on trying to put a space orbital colony into a format that could be useful has produced less than desirable results.

NASA is working on the premise of current technology. BT fusion engines and fusion rockets have rendered any NASA-style colonial plan pretty much obsolete.

Additionally, though called "colonies", space station-based habitats rarely function as a colony (other than a corporate colony); as such plans based on seed or drop colonies really don't apply to them.

Quote
Thank you for any work you put forward in this regard.

It's a pleasure.

Heck the idea of the hydroponic cargo bays on your dropship might make sense as part of the initial colony start up.  Start growing on the way, trundle the 'green house' cargo containers out, and you have both transplant plants and a fall back for a failed conventional harvest.

That's actually an excellent idea. Functionally it could simply be fluffed as using the supplies/equipment already allocated without incurring additional weight.

Quote

Depending on how long needed to fully off load the droppers might be on planet for quite a while waiting for a pick up.  Use them as early shelter/base camp till you get the permanent dirtside facilities up and running.

Oh, the containers are NEVER going to be picked up; there is just too much useful raw material to let go. That is why I mentioned intermodal chic; most buildings will be constructed using containers, either whole or scrapped. Don't forget that the standard containers can also be fitted to carry liquids, gasses, high-pressure liquid/gas or even refrigerated liquid/gas (not to mention units with environmental controls).

Quote
While putting the cattle on their own 'agricultural' dropship is tempting, it does invite a point source of failure if something bad happens to the dropship.  Failure in flight, bad atmospheric entry, failure of gear while landing, etc.

Thing is, that is the livestock are in the same ship as the colonists and the same thing happens, the colony is hosed worse than it would be if they just lose the livestock.

That is really a non issue.

yeah, you don't want to lose all of your meat sources in one accident. But this is where I think a good rule of thumb is REDUNDANCY! :)

It's not just meat; that is just a secondary function; you need their manure manufacturing methodology. And it's not just cattle; cows produce milk (cheese, butter...), chickens produce eggs, pics are natural garbage disposals and for non-halal/non-kosher types, downright tasty.

Redundancy would be a great idea, for everything else, but for the poop-ship (the dropper actually carrying the THOUSANDS OF TONS OF MANURE), you might want (nay... NEED) it to be separate from the main colony ship.

Also consider that every dropship carried is additional costs incurred. While not always an issue, it is something to be considered.

Quote
Of course, not every colony will have access to 2 cattle dropships (cattle being predominantly a mix of hearty beasts like goats, chickens, pigs, ostriches, and possibly even certain fish species... cows are too temperamental and fragile I would think in most cases however cattle DNA may be useful in this case once a colony is established as they yield far more meat than goats)

Cattle is cows and related animals. LIVESTOCK is pretty much all the animals you want to include, including earthworms (great for soil conditioning). Cattle can be bred for pretty much anything, I'm willing to bet motion sickness is one of them. At any rate, it might be possible to have a breed of pygmy cow perfectly suited for space travel, but with a full-sized reproductive system; ready to be artificially inseminated with the fully fertilized eggs of other cattle types, but this would not be very desirable in situations where you need productive livestock within a week or two of groundfall (allowing for the de-stressification of the animals after transit and landing).

Quote

Great read btw... took me all night though, lol.

Thank you!
Betcha it would've completely thread jacked your colony ship thread!  ;D
« Last Edit: 26 August 2011, 11:48:26 by Fireangel »

Valles

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 271
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #7 on: 26 August 2011, 12:50:08 »
Note that for all intents and purposes, the second dropship doubles the cost of transport. A third dropship will never really be necessary, since it can always be larger; at the point you are contemplating the upgrade to a Behemoth, you should seriously be considering a smaller first wave or a smaller group for the drop.

Or, given how much influence the location of a starting settlement can have on the success of colony, you can drop multiple 'seeds' on the same world. Without knowing the local biota and conditions, it might be difficult to predict whether, say, Jamestown, Plymouth, or Roanoke would be a more likely site.

Though, yes, I am assuming a 'generous' supply of money and available resources, as well as considering a slightly different purpose: given the differences in eventual success that can be made by varying support and planning levels, there are probably a wide range of worlds that are viable with one approach or by one backer that aren't for others. It seems less likely to me that the worlds around Terra are particularly favorable than that they seemed so because they were being settled with the full support of what later eras would regard as highly motivated and involved governments, who made plentiful intellectual and physical resources available to meet their problems.

Thus, a Successor State looking to increase its tax base and number of settled worlds might gain substantial increases by taking a second look at 'high buy-in' worlds within its own borders - in which context I thought of the Command Circuit approach. Considering the numerous places where 'gaps' appear between settled worlds in the two States whose layout I've examined closely, there'd be something beyond just their revenue value to be said for 'filling in' empty spaces.

It would depend on just what it is that makes the planet hostile. A world with poor soil (for human-based food production) might require a higher proportion of livestock per colonist; with extra supplies for the colonists (an extra 100-200 days, depending on local conditions), extra seed stocks (again, depending on conditions) and a higher amount seed for the livestock-feeding crops, since grazing is not nutritionally useful.

If the problem is that the soil and native flora and fauna are toxic to humans, it means bringing along additional water purification equipment, MUCH more seed for livestock-feeding crops (grazing is definitely NOT an option) and a much higher proportion of livestock per colonist (great for creating human-friendly fertilizer) and possibly more hydroponic equipment and "greenhouse" building materials.

Once we start into the dome-building colonies, the construction needs are paramount; it is possible that in this case, a construction team is sent ahead of time to build the domes or underground areas for human habitation; these workers may or may not be part of the first wave/drop (leaving with the jumpship that delivered the colonists). The dome equipment itself is not generally transported as part of the colony, unless the plan is to live in the landed dropship until the habitats are functional.

*nod* I had actually been considering the different types and degrees of dome - a planet with a CO2 atmosphere at roughly Earthlike pressure vs one that's a vacuum, vs someplace that tends more towards the Cytherian than the Terran - but that was a mental lapse on my part, and the differences would probably be primarily engineering rather than appearing at this level of the planning stage.

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #8 on: 26 August 2011, 13:42:33 »
Or, given how much influence the location of a starting settlement can have on the success of colony, you can drop multiple 'seeds' on the same world. Without knowing the local biota and conditions, it might be difficult to predict whether, say, Jamestown, Plymouth, or Roanoke would be a more likely site.

For a drop colony, that is somewhat viable, although it requires a higher degree of redundancy; each sub-settlement will need its own doctors, architects, teachers...

For a seed colony, it could be catastrophic; remember, the goal of the first wave of a seed colony is to pave the way for 10,000 in a fixed time period; it will take longer to establish the infrastructure (for very complicated reasons; trust me). Besides, the purpose is to establish the central hub of the colony; as successive waves come in, newer "town centers" get established organically.

Of course, there is no real reason (besides economic) that two first-wave seed colonies can't be sent to the same world in widely disparate areas, but that is not quite the same as dividing the first wave of the colony.

ANS Kamas P81

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13208
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #9 on: 26 August 2011, 14:28:31 »
Personally I suspect that chanman was right about Kerensky and that the Exodus was a creatively named suicide pact.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Nikas_Zekeval

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #10 on: 26 August 2011, 14:39:14 »
We usually assume that colonies are established "beyond the borders" of established realms, so while a command circuit can be established within the realm (for example, an Earth colony going out into the periphery), it might be far simpler and economical to use a border world as a staging area, with the colonists, livestock, equipment, vehicles, supplies and even dropships arriving independently and assembling there. How useful and/or practical a command circuit would be depends on many factors; number of jumps in the journey, transit time at both the staging system (which presumably would be short as that would be a good criteria for selecting that system in the first place) and the destination, the amount of supplies carried, the sensitivity to space travel of the specific animal breeds brought...

The main issue is one of supply v. number of jumps; each leg of the command circuit means a week is cut from the journey; if the colony is within 60 LY of the staging system, the expense is simply not worth it. There is a point where the additional supplies required exceed the capacity of the dropship, requiring another dropship to be chartered, but this point depends on the size of the cargo bays of the dropships involved and then goes down again as the new capacity increases.

Two things.  One, the type of livestock shipped might depend on the 'wave' of colonization being done.  Hardier, if less productive, breeds to break ground, while more specialized and/or fussy breeds come in once things are better established.  Heck for both 'seed' and 'drop' style colonies you could go with a small(ish) amount of mature or near mature livestock to open with, and a large bank of frozen emboyes.  Note that for surrogacy you don't need to be the same species, just 'close enough'.  Using cattle as an example you could settle on a hardy 'beef/milk/draft animal' breed.  It wouldn't produce as much milk, or as good beef, but it is tough enough to travel and do well on a new colony.  When you have broken ground and are expanding, break out the embroy bank, implant the cows with specalist breeds, and breed them instead.  In short the initial wave of livestock is your 'seed corn', not there to provide (besides accidents or as an 'emergency food source'), but to give birth to the generations that will become your working livestock.

Two, filling up the drop collars.  If you are going 'beyond the frontier', or at least off the typical trade routes then using one collar vs three on an Invader shouldn't cost much more.  Think of it like chartering an aircraft today.  Once you get over the initial expense it isn't that much more relatively to fly fully loaded vs half full.  You are paying for the likely lost business running the trade routes with that jumpship, I doubt the owner cares if it is one or three.  The only limit would be if chartering a smaller jumpship (Merchant or Scout) would be less.

Quote
That's actually an excellent idea. Functionally it could simply be fluffed as using the supplies/equipment already allocated without incurring additional weight.

Oh, the containers are NEVER going to be picked up; there is just too much useful raw material to let go. That is why I mentioned intermodal chic; most buildings will be constructed using containers, either whole or scrapped. Don't forget that the standard containers can also be fitted to carry liquids, gasses, high-pressure liquid/gas or even refrigerated liquid/gas (not to mention units with environmental controls).

Pronoun trouble.  I wasn't talking about taking back the hydroponics containers, I was talking about the dropships.

You are talking about unloading a few thousand people, all their supplies, and livestock.  Something on the order of 30 TONS of people and cargo.  Onto an open field, that is going to take some doing,  particularly if the colonists are trying to keep their livestock from wandering into a field of local prarie dog analogs (ask a Western US rancher what a horror that is!), or keeping the local rodents from getting into your seed and food supplies.  Either the jumpship is loitering while all this is going on dirtside (the meter running like the cab in the movie, Airplane!), or the dropships sit there for a while and are used as shelter and community buildings for while the Landing Town is being built and the dropships are waiting for a pick up.  Note that a rough spaceport would be put up right after the local bar, so you can turn around the droppers more rapidly, so this would be the 'ground breaking' wave's issue.


Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #11 on: 26 August 2011, 15:20:47 »
Two, filling up the drop collars.  If you are going 'beyond the frontier', or at least off the typical trade routes then using one collar vs three on an Invader shouldn't cost much more.  Think of it like chartering an aircraft today.  Once you get over the initial expense it isn't that much more relatively to fly fully loaded vs half full.  You are paying for the likely lost business running the trade routes with that jumpship, I doubt the owner cares if it is one or three.  The only limit would be if chartering a smaller jumpship (Merchant or Scout) would be less.

In BT the base price of jumpship collar space is 50,000 c-bills per dropship per jump, regardless of destination. If the jumpship (let's say an Invader) is going somewhere where other dropships (besides the colony's two) cannot be chartered, that is one empty collar. for the entire trip. If he chose to NOT accept the colony's charter, the time spent transporting the colony's two dropships could instead be used to transport three; for a 50% increase in profits. The colony's sponsors have to make it worth the jumpship's time, so they would charter the entire ship... all three collars. OR they would find a Merchant-class ship to charter for less money.

The additional dropship's charter cost must also be included, base includes transit from the staging area to the jump point, one jump and transit from the arrival point to the destination world; every jump in between must be paid as well (half base charter per jump); this adds up frighteningly quickly, especially if two-way passage is included (the dropships must return*).

*I'll discuss this below.

Leaving the dropships in place until the next wave is not really an option; it will take several days, if not several weeks to unload everything; until temporary housing (tents and prefab habitat containers) can be set up (a few days at most), the colonists can make use of the dropship's facilities, filtering out as their temporary housing is put in place. the first few containers put out can be used to form temporary pens for the livestock or even walls around the main compound to defend against native predators. Really; containers are your friend.

There is a type of colonial dropship that has been loosely discussed in other threads; the one-way colonial dropship. This would be a massive dropship capable of carrying the entire colony with room to spare. Once it lands, it becomes the center of the colony and is slowly dismantled for its raw materials in order to build the colony; in the end, the only thing that remains is the engine as the colony's main power generator and a tower that houses the control and government facilities.

Nikas_Zekeval

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1624
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #12 on: 26 August 2011, 16:22:32 »
I think we are talking past each other Fireangel.

You seemed to me to be saying that packing the Colony in more than a pair of dropships was wasteful, if you need more room just go bigger.

I was pointing out that by numbers the Invader is the most common jumpship out there, and that given you are likely being charged for those collars full or empty you might as well fill them up if you can.

Though if sponsered by a Government (like a Successor House) I could see a seed colony getting a 'wave zero' advanced team.  Sort of like a modern SeaBee battalion their job is to drop in, build a landing field, warehouses, and some rough barracks for initial shelter to expedite dropship turn around.  Once built they close it up and fly off, or if timed right hand the keys off and hitch a ride back with the jumpship.

The Baracks in this case would be very basic, communial everything.  They are meant to be short term, and like FEMA has discovered you have to make the shelters a bit inconvient to convince everyone to move out rather than permanently set up shop.  They are basic transient quarters through the first few phases.

Alternatively you have the baracks a prefabs that can be set up in a few days.  By Wave three they are probably past their usefulness, and can be torn down, likely for a proper spaceport terminal.

Valles

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 271
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #13 on: 26 August 2011, 16:29:33 »
Of course, there is no real reason (besides economic) that two first-wave seed colonies can't be sent to the same world in widely disparate areas, but that is not quite the same as dividing the first wave of the colony.

My personal instinct is to favor the Drop Colony approach, but this is an emotional reaction rather than a practical one; the intent of my remarks was, indeed, the 'multiple first waves' approach. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #14 on: 26 August 2011, 17:35:24 »
You seemed to me to be saying that packing the Colony in more than a pair of dropships was wasteful, if you need more room just go bigger.

Not quite; the "just go bigger" is once you have to get the second dropper (assuming you started with just one); withthe second dropper, you can indeed just keep going bigger until you hit the practical limits.

Say you have a "standard" colony dropper that for whatever reason needs an extra thousand tons of cargo space, instead of splitting up the cargo among two smaller, specialized colonial droppers; you just get a buccaneer as the second dropper; hopefully you will have used up enough "stuff" so that the Buck can stay on the jumper at the arrival system. If you have more stuff than what will fit in a Buck, you DON'T get a second Buck; you get a Mule (or some intermediate cargo dropper between the Buck and the Mule). One mule not enough? Get a Mammoth... and so on.

What is wasteful is the cost to charter the jumpship with empty collars; Invaders may be the most common ones out there, but if you only need to haul one dropper, you don't pay for the cargo capacity of three; you find yourself a Scout or some other jumper with one collar. If you need to get yourself a second dropper (see above), you get yourself a two-collar Merchant or equivalent; no need to pay for that third collar if you are not going to use it. 

I'm looking at the colonial operation from a cost benefit analysis standpoint; when all is said and done, establishing a colony (even a government sponsored one) is a very expensive endeavor; you need to get the most "bang for the buck" you possibly can. The Wave Zero is an excellent idea in situations where additional equipment is needed for basic survival, like domes or regional terraforming (like in an isolated valley, for example). If the environment will support humans with minimal preparation, Wave One will do all the work without having to worry about taking the Wave Zero team out and bringing them back... at least the taking them out is going to cost money.

Instead of a dedicated "Wave Zero Team", the scouts that surveyed the world could leave their prefab lab/habitat behind for the use of the colonists. It might be a few years before the first colonists arrive, but it would be something.

Yes, the First wave would build staged housing;

Stage 1: Quick set-up tents and/or prefab container housing which can be set up in a single day (could be combined with staying on the dropper while it unloads)

Stage 2: Prefab semi-permanent housing in the base settlement; setting this up may take days or weeks; as these get built, the tents get taken down.

Stage 3: Homesteads get built where the farms are located; as homesteads get occupied, the buildings in the town center get repurposed for communal use and readied for the following waves.

My personal instinct is to favor the Drop Colony approach, but this is an emotional reaction rather than a practical one; the intent of my remarks was, indeed, the 'multiple first waves' approach. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

It's OK. My personal opinion is that both types (plus corporate and a few wildcats) were widely used across the inner sphere and the periphery; the majority of Terran Alliance/Hegemony worlds were settled by the seed method (or variants thereof), given their huge rates of success; after the Terran government opened up colonization to individual nations and corporations, more drop-style colonies were likely sent out, to varying degrees of success. In canon we see countless examples of failed drop colonies.

After a certain point, any colony type can start self-recruiting; sponsoring itself, possibly with the aid of a regional government (a future successor state).

Khymerion

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2500
    • The Iron Hack
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #15 on: 26 August 2011, 17:47:47 »
Ever thought of the idea of actually using one or all of the colonial dropships themselves as permanent fixtures in the establishment of the colony?   It could provide a reliable source of power, communications, medical, and resources that would be of immense value?   Or are the dropships assumed to off load and depart immediately?

No more than one would be needed... maybe a support/colonial command ship dropship meant to stay behind?   Nothing big like the initial movers who need to depart and bring in the next wave...  but something the size of a Leopard, crammed with the medical bays, specialized tools, fabrication/repair equipment the young colony might need?  Even if it is merely going to be an over-glorified power/water purifier/hydrogen fuel plant (if water is available)?
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #16 on: 26 August 2011, 18:33:28 »
What about a misjump colony?  Jumper misjumps and the survivors have to rely on each other and what is salvaged.

How would such a thing fair in the long run? Reason is I have my AU Azeroth Pocketverse...

TT

Well, assuming that we are discussing a colony ship that misjumped, the success of the resulting colony depends on a number of factors;

1) Suitability of the planet. If the ship happens to misjump into a tropical paradice where even the dirt is edible, water comes down from the mountain bottled and certified and everything is just peachy, things will work out just fine provided that the colonists + ship crews have enough genetic diversity to support the colony indefinitely. OTOH, if the planet is marginal, at best (or non-viable, so that the colony will have to convert the jumpship and dropships into habitats, things will depend greatly on how long they can sustain themselves before something breaks and can't be fixed or food starts running out. For everything in between, it's up in the air; assuming the planet is exactly the same (or pretty darn close enough), the additional mouths to feed might be an inconvenience, but if crops come in, there should be no problem, however, if all the grain they selected was optimal for an alkaline terrain and the planet is more acidic, there might be problems. Since the planet was not surveyed, the innoculations used might be useless, the native flora and fauna might be mildly to deathly toxic or natural disasters might be much more frequent. If the colonists were preparing for a world with an average temperature of 40 C (about 104 F) and are forced to colonize a world with average temperatures of 40 F (about 5 C), they may have some serious issues.

2) Colonization Schedule. Many canon drop colonies actually included the jumpship in the deal; since the ship was not supposed to return, nobody knew it was missing until a hardy group of PCs jump into the system and find the ruins of the colony and a few stone-age primitives with stories of how they came from the sky. In every other situation, the jumpship was supposed to return at some point; unless a war makes tracking such things impossible, somebody will miss the ship; bunnies to dollars it will be an insurance company (you realize that these things do get insured, right? 8)). If it is a standard misjump and the target world and route is known, a search can be conducted (a few dozen million c-bills spent on the search will save the insurance company from paying off a billion+ c-bill jumpship, one or more jumpships costing an arm and a leg each and a multi-million colonial operation (which if a seed colony may well be a multi-billion c-bill operation over the course of the next 20-30 years). So if found, the colony may be either relocated to its proper location or efforts could be made to modify the schedule and survey/colonize the new world.

3) Sheer supplies. A few dozen jumship/dropship crew might not be much of an issue under normal circumstances, but if the crew of all ships is in the hundred+ range, it will have an effect, especially if the local flora and fauna are incompatible to any significant degree.

4) Personnel issues. The colonists knew that they were in for hard work; maybe not "this" hard, but they expected it and have the colonial mindset of adapt, overcome and endure. Not so with the crews; some might not want to work the land, some might have unsuitable personality traits or might be involuntarily unproductive (such as a spacer who has agoraphobia; the opposite of claustrophobia and gets... flaky... when on planetary surfaces.

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #17 on: 26 August 2011, 18:37:27 »
Ever thought of the idea of actually using one or all of the colonial dropships themselves as permanent fixtures in the establishment of the colony?   It could provide a reliable source of power, communications, medical, and resources that would be of immense value?   Or are the dropships assumed to off load and depart immediately?

No more than one would be needed... maybe a support/colonial command ship dropship meant to stay behind?   Nothing big like the initial movers who need to depart and bring in the next wave...  but something the size of a Leopard, crammed with the medical bays, specialized tools, fabrication/repair equipment the young colony might need?  Even if it is merely going to be an over-glorified power/water purifier/hydrogen fuel plant (if water is available)?

Actually yes. A couple posts ago I mentioned this very thing:

There is a type of colonial dropship that has been loosely discussed in other threads; the one-way colonial dropship. This would be a massive dropship capable of carrying the entire colony with room to spare. Once it lands, it becomes the center of the colony and is slowly dismantled for its raw materials in order to build the colony; in the end, the only thing that remains is the engine as the colony's main power generator and a tower that houses the control and government facilities.

I'll see if I can find one of those threads and post a link.

Khymerion

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2500
    • The Iron Hack
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #18 on: 26 August 2011, 18:51:16 »
Sorry!  I missed that!   Apologies!
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #19 on: 26 August 2011, 18:53:37 »
No prob. I seem to have gotten more verbose since power is out. Thank goodness for querty keyboards on phones!

VhenRa

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2251
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #20 on: 31 August 2011, 07:04:59 »
Any chance you could give a nice sample timeline for the Seed colony. Just so you can put it into perspective well? (It helps ones mind focus)?

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #21 on: 31 August 2011, 09:13:38 »
Any chance you could give a nice sample timeline for the Seed colony. Just so you can put it into perspective well? (It helps ones mind focus)?
Minimum times between waves:

Year 0: Wave one arrives
Year 3; Wave two begins arriving
Year 8: Wave three begins arriving
Year 13: Wave four begins arriving
Year 18: Wave five begins arriving
Year 23: Wave five ends.


Maximum times between waves:

Year 0: Wave one arrives
Year 4; Wave two begins arriving
Year 9: Wave three begins arriving
Year 17: Wave four begins arriving
Year 27: Wave five begins arriving
Year 47: Wave five ends.

Base numbers:

Wave One: 2,500
Wave Two: 10,000 (in 4-5 groups of 2,000 – 2,500 each arriving about 1/yr)
Wave Three: 50,000 (in 10-25 groups of 2,000 to 5,000, arriving 4-6 months apart)
Wave Four: 200,000 – 250,000 (in 20-50 groups of 4,000 – 10,000, arriving 3-4 months apart)
Wave Five: 500,000 (spread out over the next 10-20 years, alternating between small groups of about 1,000 individuals and large cohesive groups of 4,000-10,000)

Accounting for a relatively high population growth (given that few natural deaths due to age will be taking place), by the end of wave five the colony’s population should be around one million.

After Wave Five ends, the colonization process can continue, but not as part of a concerted colonization effort; only small groups of less than 1,000 (comprised mostly of individuals paying their own way to the colony) will be arriving at irregular intervals (or even spread out over a period of time), with only the occasional large group arriving together.

From this point, a growth rate of about 2.2% will mean that in 100 years the colony will have a population of about 9 million.

With the same growth rate, 100 years later the colony will have about 80 million people, increasing to about 705 million 100 years later.

Year 0: 2,500
Year X (end of wave five): 1,000,000
Year X+100: 9,000,000
Year X+200: 80,000,000
Year X+300: 705,000,000
Year X+400: 6,200,000,000 (!)

Of course, a lower growth rate will yield a lower population over a given period of time.

VhenRa

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2251
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #22 on: 31 August 2011, 10:39:36 »
Quote
Wave Two: 10,000 (in 4-5 groups of 2,000 – 2,500 each arriving about 1/yr)

I thought you said months in time frame for those in first post?

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #23 on: 31 August 2011, 11:12:43 »
I thought you said months in time frame for those in first post?

No. Where did you read that?


The second wave starts arriving in 3-4 years and numbers about 10,000, but they do not all come in at once; every few months, a colony ship arrives with about 1,000-2,500 second-wave colonists; much like the first wave, but with more specialized equipment, materials and personnel. The second-wave's primary goal is to prepare the colony for the third wave of colonists; about 50,000 who will be start arriving about five years after the second wave.

lexington476

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • PXH-7K
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #24 on: 31 August 2011, 21:13:49 »
I wonder, does anyone know where you could find a list like this for the real world Earth European colonization during the Age of Sail?


Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #25 on: 01 September 2011, 15:52:43 »
I wonder, does anyone know where you could find a list like this for the real world Earth European colonization during the Age of Sail?
Like this? Likely nowhere. You might be able to get lists of immigrants and periodic census rolls, but colonizing in the age of sail was a very different endeavour; based on my article, it would be closer to either a corporate or a drop colony (depending on the actual colony); either version using a rolling immigration without a set schedule.
« Last Edit: 01 September 2011, 19:47:32 by Fireangel »

Cowdragon

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2921
  • PM me for Ft. Collins CO battletech games
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #26 on: 01 September 2011, 19:39:27 »
Just enjoying the read. Wish I had more to add than that, lol.

On wings of steel, Come I, Pillars of flame
Mark me, Fury bright as suns, Foes fear
The star back road, I hunt, Blood geld payment
Shan't be, The ravens throne, Blod Orn
- vidar (thank you vidar!!!)
Pie or Spehs and Tanks also BA

soshi

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 286
  • reed'n be fun four da mentals
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #27 on: 07 September 2011, 17:57:38 »
I am no expert on planetary colonization. 

For instance  why would you need to be bringing large amount of livestock/cattle?   A dozen should be more than enough if you bring frozen sperm and eggs  with you,  and breed the population that way.  (feeding animals for food,  one head of cattle eats enough to feed more then 5  people and can only feed 3 people- for the optimal amount of time ).    Rabbits and Rats would be the more plausible animal of choice for establishing a colony if you plan on bringing the first generation alive.

studying the ecology, weather patterns,  volcanic activity,  botany, continental plates shifting   ect  is something measured in years , not show up and figure it out as you go.  Adapting animals and figuring out which crops to grow, and where  to grow them  requires a least a few years to work out.   Or have a high risk of failure.  Does not seem likely that the colony would be underwritten if this stuff isn't fleshed out long before people arrive for permanent settlement.   

the test phase requires at least some personal on planet as they terraform it and study  what interactions terraform and ecology have with one another.  Are we looking to wipe out the old ecology and rebuild a new one   or are we trying to adapt  each to the other.    and have a good idea on what they can make money on. 

as for bringing in new people,  phased planning seems to be an efficient means for the survivability effort in the BT universe. 

depending on the time period,  converted war ships (I was thinking corvettes and destroyers) would probably be a great way to go.  Can get them cheap (used),  can modify them to carry quite a few drop ships,  and they have engines so they can move around.  They can stay for a year,  bring back any surplus raw materials,  exotic fauna , wild life,  anything to help make money,  any new food stuffs.   They may even be able to manufacture specialty parts like fusion engine parts.  As for the cost,  may seem  high,  but it can help supply large amounts in a relatively short period of time and large enough that it can manufacture some high tech  or niche items ( like toilet paper, soap, toothpaste)

The way i see it,  you are planning on bringing 2.5k people, a little less than an entire CBT infantry regiment about 94 platoons worth of troops,  plus a massive amount of basic supplies that they will not realistically be able to make for them selves for a few years (Toilet paper comes to mind, soap, shoes, clothing, beer).  They will need to import massive amounts of building material(steal, glass, nuts and bolts, bale wire, duct tape and prayers ) .  Bull dossers, fork lifts, earth movers, up to cementing plants.  bring all the miles of piping and wiring they will need plus enough crap to get a wireless communications grid up and running and keep it running.  A few satellites to help with planetary mapping, advanced weather reporting.  And hunting for exports.

I am thinking specialty drop ships created/modified to fill particular roles,  that would be useful.

I was thinking something like a seeker could be set up to function as  resource gatherers  and processioning, maybe even light manufacturing for things they may need early on (wire,  machinery parts, bale wire-never enough of that).  Maybe even for prospect mining.   

Something like a fury could be set up  for basic farming gear , not sure how much that stuff weights in real life- might need a Gazelle for it,  grain storing,  some food processing,  pump water from the ground to help irrigate the fields.  You would need a few of those.  Those should be set up 30-40 clicks from the main towns,  so the towns have room to rapidly expand.  This includes plows, sowers, harvesters, churners  (early on seems worth while to have specialty vehicles).

These ships don't need to be permanent set ups,  just need a few start up kits  till the colony can bring in more gear and more permanent.  After they are done they can either relocate to the next build up area's or move on to a new colony. 

as for power,  not sure how much power a CBT fusion engine can provide,  but I cann't see a small town needing much more than a 400 power rated engine to run the main power grid.  solar power should be good for farmers when they build there own homes.  A 50 rating engine seems pretty cheap and can easily power what a small mining operation would need.  How this is something they will need to import for a few years. 

as for building cities, factories, processing stations,  just make everything modular - plug and play if you will.  and with the empty ships they can be loaded with what ever they hell they do at this colony(food, mining, exotic lucky rabbit foots, pet rocks) All the colony would really need to be able to do for themselves is build the foundation of a city to start out and get some farming done.   it is fast and everything is coming ready to be used. 












Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #28 on: 07 September 2011, 20:44:39 »
I am no expert on planetary colonization. 

For instance  why would you need to be bringing large amount of livestock/cattle?   A dozen should be more than enough if you bring frozen sperm and eggs  with you,  and breed the population that way.  (feeding animals for food,  one head of cattle eats enough to feed more then 5  people and can only feed 3 people- for the optimal amount of time ).    Rabbits and Rats would be the more plausible animal of choice for establishing a colony if you plan on bringing the first generation alive.

As explained in the article, about a half-ton of livestock (of all kinds) per colonist should serve well; this would allow for unknown local bugs and other unforeseen problems. Specific types would be up to the individual colony, but even if they carry enough sperm variety and fertilized ova, they will still need adult cows for breeding, bulls for studding and for immediate use, milking cows, beef cattle and “fertilizer production”. Mind you, I’m assuming that for 2.5k colonists there will be about 300-400 heads of cattle (probably a relatively small breed well-suited for space travel and birthing other breeds’ fertilized ova), along with about 3-4 sheep, 10-12 chickens… The first-wave seed colony needs to be as self-sufficient as possible from day one; they cannot afford to wait the decades it takes to reach a viable cattle/other livestock population from a dozen or so seeds (the first generation has to mature to breeding age, which is about two years, not nearly fast enough for the arrival of the second wave).

Quote
studying the ecology, weather patterns,  volcanic activity,  botany, continental plates shifting   ect  is something measured in years , not show up and figure it out as you go.  Adapting animals and figuring out which crops to grow, and where  to grow them  requires a least a few years to work out.   Or have a high risk of failure.  Does not seem likely that the colony would be underwritten if this stuff isn't fleshed out long before people arrive for permanent settlement.   

Which is why I mention surveying the world before the fist colonists are even recruited. Technology can compensate somewhat for bad conditions, but there is something to be said for proper breed selection (both of crops and livestock).

Quote
the test phase requires at least some personal on planet as they terraform it and study  what interactions terraform and ecology have with one another.  Are we looking to wipe out the old ecology and rebuild a new one   or are we trying to adapt  each to the other.    and have a good idea on what they can make money on. 

Generally speaking, worlds in BT tend to be very environmentally friendly to human needs. You can see just how much invasive (i.e. imported by colonists) species have adapted to the local environment by looking at the “% of native life” line in planetary descriptions.

Quote
as for bringing in new people,  phased planning seems to be an efficient means for the survivability effort in the BT universe. 

Hence the seed colony process. I’m not describing canon, but I am describing one of the most efficient and viable methods of successful colonization. We often read in canon about failed colonies, but for the most part, these are drop colonies that were, for the most part, badly planned or met with unforeseen catastrophe.

Quote
depending on the time period,  converted war ships (I was thinking corvettes and destroyers) would probably be a great way to go.  Can get them cheap (used),  can modify them to carry quite a few drop ships,  and they have engines so they can move around.  They can stay for a year,  bring back any surplus raw materials,  exotic fauna , wild life,  anything to help make money,  any new food stuffs.   They may even be able to manufacture specialty parts like fusion engine parts. 

The problem is that the huge cargo capacity is not really needed when you can just load all that is needed on to a dropship or two; using the jumper’s hold means transferring thousands of tons of cargo at both ends of the journey.

Spare parts should be brought along for the really high-tech items, while basic fabrication machinery would be included in the colony’s materiel in order to build and repair more basic things…

Quote
As for the cost,  may seem  high,  but it can help supply large amounts in a relatively short period of time and large enough that it can manufacture some high tech  or niche items ( like toilet paper, soap, toothpaste)

Keep in mind that the equipment brought along can start manufacturing these basics you mention as soon as appropriate raw material can be secured (i.e. cotton crops or hemp or even native plants for TP, other materials for soap and toothpaste).

Trust me, they WILL have a way of making TP locally.

Quote
The way i see it,  you are planning on bringing 2.5k people, a little less than an entire CBT infantry regiment about 94 platoons worth of troops,  plus a massive amount of basic supplies that they will not realistically be able to make for them selves for a few years (Toilet paper comes to mind, soap, shoes, clothing, beer). 

Years? No. The machinery might take a few weeks to set up (assuming it is not already containerized and rearing to go in a day), but the consumable supplies they bring will have enough TP, soap and whatnot to keep them going until they can start making their own. Clothing? They should have brought enough to last for the duration; if it breaks, it can be repaired. By the end of the first year, looms should be making cloth from plant fibers (such as a cotton crop) or animal fibers (sheep or llama wool). Tailors that were included (or rose to the challenge) will be making clothes from this cloth.

Shoes? 2-3 pair per colonist should last a few years is they are really well made. A cobbler (that’s a shoemaker) among the colonists (doesn’t have to be low-tech; shoemaking equipment is surprisingly portable) can start making shoes on order from leather coming from the livestock and cloth from the looms.

Quote
They will need to import massive amounts of building material(steal steel, glass, nuts and bolts, bale wire, duct tape and prayers ) . 

Steel and glass equivalents, as well as nuts, bolts, electrical wire, tools and duct tape will be included in the first wave, supplemented with tents (for the first few days), prefab buildings and the 10 and 25 ton standard containers that quickly get emptied and repurposed. Prayers are extremely useful, but don’t take up much tonnage and don’t have to be imported separately.

Quote
Bull dossers, fork lifts, earth movers, up to cementing plants. 

Consruction equipment and vehicles have already been accounted for. Also, this is Battletech; construction, industrial and logging ‘mechs might also be brought along in the first wave.

Quote
bring all the miles of piping and wiring they will need plus enough crap to get a wireless communications grid up and running and keep it running.  A few satellites to help with planetary mapping, advanced weather reporting. 

Miles of pipes will not be needed at this stage (first wave of a seed colony); a 2,500 colony with have an average of 400 or so families, with about a third of them living at or near the town center and the others in nearby outlying farms. Roll-out piping can be brought in the first wave with enough raw material and equipment to make more. “Personal electronics and appliances” covers the communications and power network systems.

Satellites are also useful, but these can be made very small and may well (and easily) be included among the tonnage for vehicles (along with the commo systems needed to make use of them).

Quote
And hunting for exports.

At this stage, exporting anything in any reasonable scale should be near the last thing on anyone’s mind during the first wave’s preparation for the second wave.

Quote

I am thinking specialty drop ships created/modified to fill particular roles,  that would be useful.

Yup. Colony dropships are a very real possibility.

Quote
I was thinking something like a seeker could be set up to function as  resource gatherers  and processioning, maybe even light manufacturing for things they may need early on (wire,  machinery parts, bale wire-never enough of that).  Maybe even for prospect mining.   

Something like a fury could be set up  for basic farming gear , not sure how much that stuff weights in real life- might need a Gazelle for it,  grain storing,  some food processing,  pump water from the ground to help irrigate the fields.  You would need a few of those.  Those should be set up 30-40 clicks from the main towns,  so the towns have room to rapidly expand.  This includes plows, sowers, harvesters, churners  (early on seems worth while to have specialty vehicles).

Don’t think of adapting existing military craft; a colonial dropship is a civilian design made for one thing only.

Also, don’t think of using specialized “mining ships” or ships as storage silos (these should be set up before the first crop comes in); any mining equipment should be offloaded; remember, this is not a “fly-by-night” operation that moves to a new location after a few weeks/months; the colony is here to build the infrastructure for a permanent colony; once the mine site is selected it should last years.

Quote

These ships don't need to be permanent set ups,  just need a few start up kits  till the colony can bring in more gear and more permanent.  After they are done they can either relocate to the next build up area's or move on to a new colony. 

See above. The seed colony’s first wave sets up the infrastructure, the second wave starts making use of it.

Quote

as for power,  not sure how much power a CBT fusion engine can provide,  but I cann't see a small town needing much more than a 400 power rated engine to run the main power grid.  solar power should be good for farmers when they build there own homes.  A 50 rating engine seems pretty cheap and can easily power what a small mining operation would need.  How this is something they will need to import for a few years. 

A main fusion power generator (not a rated engine) should suffice, maybe with a smaller backup, for the needs of the first wave; small generators (solar, fuel cell or even fusion) can suit the needs of the homesteads as they move away from the town center. If more is needed, that’s what the vehicles can do as well.

Quote

as for building cities, factories, processing stations,  just make everything modular - plug and play if you will.  and with the empty ships they can be loaded with what ever they hell they do at this colony(food, mining, exotic lucky rabbit foots, pet rocks) All the colony would really need to be able to do for themselves is build the foundation of a city to start out and get some farming done.   it is fast and everything is coming ready to be used.

Containers. Like the intermodal containers you see on the roads and on large freighters; they come in 10 and 25-ton sizes. Emptied ones can be repurposed as habitats or as parts of habitats and dedicated ones can carry sewage processors, metalwork fabricators or even smelting plants.

soshi

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 286
  • reed'n be fun four da mentals
Re: Let's build a Colony
« Reply #29 on: 08 September 2011, 00:46:30 »
Maybe I miss understood the point of your article, 

I thought it was how they colonized worlds in the BT universe, my bad.

the western alliance then the Terran alliance after ward were using much different jumpship/dropship technology than the Terran Hegemony used.   For the time table your talking about  before the Age of War, you would need 1 jumpship  twice the size of a Texas class battle ship every other month for almost 10 years to make the colony self sufficient enough to start to meet the population demands you are suggesting.  your starting to large and to rapid a growth for it to be realistic. 

keep in mind,  for your set up your talking about using 6 -7k tons of consumables just to get a planet 3 jumps away.   in the first wave.  Pre AOW the jumpships only carried 5k ton shuttles.  They aren't bring much with them.  for your livestock,  what you are suggesting is going to require more than one dropship to carry.  (for just the livestock)  more than one dropship just to carry the people and enough consumables  to get to the planet.   more than one drop ship worth of consumables for the population and livestock for about a month after you get to the planet.  So to get 4 months till the first harvest you are talking about 5 dropships for just consumables.  so it's a min of 8 dropships  to get your first harvest.  I would estimate at least 1k of the current population would need to be focused just on farming.  monitoring current  harvest, clearing more area's for next crop and taking care of the herd that still needs to eat and we are rapidly growing more of.    It sounds like you are planning to set up a small city to take in 10k people in 4 years.  So while this is going on  we need to have unloaded and unpacked and set up a  small city.  20 drop ships worth of crap maybe?

All I am trying to say is your starting point is way to high.  And your Progression numbers are Way to rapid for the early years.  After the colony is established you can start massive importation of labor.   

Even in the later years you are still talking about  4 -5 mammoth like drop ships ever 6 months to meet your time table.  From your time table i am assuming that the colony is required to maintain a high tech level else I just have no idea how your model is even possible.   






 

 

Register