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Author Topic: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel  (Read 1005 times)

Goose

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Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« on: 05 October 2020, 22:38:09 »
I got a rough idea of what I'm risking to the game, but dialed the heating part way back, how fast do you think you'd go trough a ton of fuel out in The Black?

… If every other set of sensors out there have their infrared gain set that way-flipping-high, do you now have a stealth flying stealth vehicle? >:D
Goose
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #1 on: 06 October 2020, 00:18:03 »
I got a rough idea of what I'm risking to the game, but dialed the heating part way back, how fast do you think you'd go trough a ton of fuel out in The Black?

… If every other set of sensors out there have their infrared gain set that way-flipping-high, do you now have a stealth flying stealth vehicle? >:D

Depends. Are you trying to accelerate?
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Goose

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #2 on: 06 October 2020, 01:38:45 »
I was kind'a hoping to …

So if you merely heat it to the hot spot on your hull, you'd get a number way below that of a JumpShips station-keeper?

… And you need to be a small craft to get useful fuel bunkerdge? :-\
Goose
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #3 on: 06 October 2020, 03:01:37 »
If you merely heat it to the hot spot on your hull, you're barely going to move.  You're basically talking about a cold gas thruster:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_gas_thruster

With hydrogen, a 20-ton ASF expelling a single ton of hydrogen as a cold gas thruster will get 148.79 m/s, it's final mass of course being 19 tons.  That 148.79 m/s is half a hex per turn.

With a 200-ton small craft, you would use 19.65 tons of hydrogen to get 1 thrust point, ie. accelerating 300 m/s.  A 200,000 ton JumpShip would need 19650 tons to do the same.
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cray

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #4 on: 06 October 2020, 18:41:12 »
Nice number crunching.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Goose

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #5 on: 06 October 2020, 19:54:01 »
… I'm disquieting some kind'a new Mass Driver ammo? :P
« Last Edit: 06 October 2020, 19:56:31 by Goose »
Goose
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #6 on: 06 October 2020, 20:18:28 »
there is a reason that stealth in space is hard. which just reinforces that Capellan "stealth armor" on ASF's really isn't true stealth, but rather some sort of deception system.

VhenRa

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #7 on: 06 October 2020, 21:02:49 »
there is a reason that stealth in space is hard. which just reinforces that Capellan "stealth armor" on ASF's really isn't true stealth, but rather some sort of deception system.

Remember, it doesn't actually work when expending thrust points [in space].

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #8 on: 06 October 2020, 21:36:07 »
Nice number crunching.

Thanks.

… I'm disquieting some kind'a new Mass Driver ammo? :P

Que?

Remember, it doesn't actually work when expending thrust points [in space].

Could be worse.  It's cold gas, at least, as opposed to combustion or fusion, so its exhaust temperature isn't as high.  I suppose if you were careful about it, depending upon where you were, you could make yourself look like a small comet that was outgassing or something.

there is a reason that stealth in space is hard. which just reinforces that Capellan "stealth armor" on ASF's really isn't true stealth, but rather some sort of deception system.

I assume it uses some form of radar-absorbent materials to scatter or confuse radar, combined with active ECM gear.  I'm not sure how it obscures thermals.
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Goose

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #9 on: 06 October 2020, 22:10:10 »
Que?
How much fuel, and what kind'a sensors, could you put on 30-ton Lt Mass Driver round?
Goose
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #10 on: 06 October 2020, 22:23:28 »
How much fuel, and what kind'a sensors, could you put on 30-ton Lt Mass Driver round?

None.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #11 on: 07 October 2020, 13:28:36 »
None.
How much fuel, and what kind'a sensors, could you put on 30-ton Lt Mass Driver round?

It's not that you can't put it on, it's that it isn't going to work, and depending how reactive your fuel is, you might get a nice explosion in the mass driver's barrel..or just tear and crush everything simultaneously when you power it up for that first shot.

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AlphaMirage

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #12 on: 07 October 2020, 14:56:18 »
You could shoot it at a lower acceleration of course. I could see it being my used to put a satellite into position using a ferrous sled. Build a satellite at 30 tons and see what you can fit on it.

cray

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #13 on: 07 October 2020, 18:12:52 »
None.

Cannon-launched guided munitions, even rockets, have a long history. You should be able to at least mount simple steering rockets and solid-state sensors on a mass driver projectile.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #14 on: 07 October 2020, 18:46:43 »
Cannon-launched guided munitions, even rockets, have a long history. You should be able to at least mount simple steering rockets and solid-state sensors on a mass driver projectile.

On the Battletech ones, though?  Even if you could, given the delta-v they deliver from the mass driver itself, you're not going to be changing your velocity very much with anything short of a fusion reactor, which I suspect a mass driver's acceleration would pancake.
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cray

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #15 on: 07 October 2020, 19:25:01 »
On the Battletech ones, though?

There are guided AC shells now. "Precision" ammo, is it?

Quote
Even if you could, given the delta-v they deliver from the mass driver itself, you're not going to be changing your velocity very much with anything short of a fusion reactor, which I suspect a mass driver's acceleration would pancake.

Right, but you don't need to change your delta-V much to increase hit chances. Consider this kinetic kill vehicle - it's lofted at kilometers per second and then spends its few hundred meters per second of on-board delta-V playing 2D "Pong" with the target.

Giving a ballistic mass driver shell enough ability to divert to compensate for <60 seconds of target evasion would be useful. An epic-scale example of Precision ammo.

The mass driver shell wouldn't chase a fleeing WarShip or DropShip through tunnels and asteroid canyons, but it could correct for some maneuvering and errors in aim.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Cannonshop

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #16 on: 10 October 2020, 00:58:48 »
There are guided AC shells now. "Precision" ammo, is it?

Right, but you don't need to change your delta-V much to increase hit chances. Consider this kinetic kill vehicle - it's lofted at kilometers per second and then spends its few hundred meters per second of on-board delta-V playing 2D "Pong" with the target.

Giving a ballistic mass driver shell enough ability to divert to compensate for <60 seconds of target evasion would be useful. An epic-scale example of Precision ammo.

The mass driver shell wouldn't chase a fleeing WarShip or DropShip through tunnels and asteroid canyons, but it could correct for some maneuvering and errors in aim.

ehm, what about the electromagnetic pulse you're subjecting that to?
The core rules for interacting with me:

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cray

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #17 on: 10 October 2020, 07:38:16 »
ehm, what about the electromagnetic pulse you're subjecting that to?

Turn the shell into a Faraday cage, it only has to deal with a single, very well known pulse. Guidance systems for electromagnetic launchers (also usable on conventional cannons) is a modern engineering project, not an unsolvable future problem.

BAE, maker of the US Navy's railgun, is also making guided munitions for it
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

truetanker

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #18 on: 13 April 2021, 23:29:43 »
* Pimp that Science! *

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Re: Annnd when you DON'T Superheat the Fuel
« Reply #19 on: 15 April 2021, 17:48:05 »
The less said about modern rail gun projects, the better...  :P