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Author Topic: Mercenary DS Squadron  (Read 2839 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #30 on: 11 August 2021, 13:16:34 »
Not sure if an artemis launcher can launch normal missiles you may be better just ripping them off and replacing with standard launchers
Unless there has been some change to the rules, they have always been able to use normal ammo in a pinch w/ the 1-ton wasted.

I'm pretty sure they can... just without the Artemis bonus, of course.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #31 on: 11 August 2021, 13:49:53 »
I'm pretty sure they can... just without the Artemis bonus, of course.

This . . . it is also why it is clearly stated things like NARC, Semi-G, or any other missiles fired through the tubes do not gain that Artemis bonus.

Had someone trying to combine Semi-G and Artemis on a table once.
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Kasaga

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #32 on: 15 August 2021, 20:09:43 »
[EXAMPLE]

694th Assault Escort Squadron:

TO&E 2750:
1x Lee CV (I love the Lee and would say it replaced a Titan)
3x Model 96 Elephants
1x Mule
1x Aqueduct
4x Achilles
8x Pentagon
3x Star Lord JS

TO&E 2790:
1x Model 96 Elephant
2x Achilles
3x Pentagon
1x Star Lord JS

You can kind of go from there.  Remember SLDF naval squadrons were 18 ships on average.  The first is from pre coup.  Second is survivors and those that didn't leave.  Just my take.  I can work up the different war era survivors over the next couple of days if you want.

Wrangler

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #33 on: 16 August 2021, 09:19:08 »
Lee CV has no stats as of this post unfortunately.

That monster is likely to darken the skies with potential carry capacity it could shoulder.
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CVB

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #34 on: 16 August 2021, 10:03:43 »
Lee CV has no stats as of this post unfortunately.

That monster is likely to darken the skies with potential carry capacity it could shoulder.

Fluff seems to indicate 40 ASF and 6 Small craft, IIRC
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Hellraiser

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #35 on: 17 August 2021, 13:30:20 »
Fluff seems to indicate 40 ASF and 6 Small craft, IIRC
That is what Sarna is showing.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

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Kasaga

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #36 on: 18 August 2021, 15:59:55 »
Lee CV has no stats as of this post unfortunately.

That monster is likely to darken the skies with potential carry capacity it could shoulder.

I stat'd it once.  Its just pulling the Mech bay and swapping it for the ASF bays and adding the 4 extra SC bays.  I think I lost some cargo but can't remember.

Daryk

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #37 on: 18 August 2021, 17:36:59 »
ASF bays are one-for-one swaps for 'mech bays, so you must have lost cargo to install 800 tons of Small Craft bays.

Kasaga

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #38 on: 18 August 2021, 18:54:31 »
ASF bays are one-for-one swaps for 'mech bays, so you must have lost cargo to install 800 tons of Small Craft bays.

That sounds about right.

Hellraiser

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #39 on: 07 September 2021, 14:28:57 »
You probably wouldn't do a 1-1 swap.

Doesn't it already have 6 fighters?

Its a 40 for 30/34 swap giving you extra tonnage for the 4 SCC.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Wrangler

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #40 on: 07 September 2021, 20:38:28 »
The stuff from Sarna is straight from the Liberation of Terra books, which is only source info on the Lee.

Given that Vengeance Class Dropships have same 40 fighter compliment, I'm not sure advantage except for cargo/re-arming.

Then again, Vengeance was not retro conned yet (i think.) thus there was no bigger carriers than Titan.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #41 on: 07 September 2021, 22:48:35 »
So, as I'm reading Sarna...................

OG = 40 Mechs, 6 Fighters, 2 Shuttles

Carrier = 40 Fighters,  6 Shuttles.

So as I mentioned above, you would do a 40 for 34 Swap.

6 Mech Bays remaining = 4 Shuttles

Gives you a 100 Ton BOOST to the Cargo total.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

CVB

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #42 on: 08 September 2021, 05:58:55 »

Then again, Vengeance was not retro conned yet (i think.) thus there was no bigger carriers than Titan.

The Vengeance has been dated to 2682 , according to MUL. Probably because of a snippet in the SLSB, where some future First Lord's future wife served on one.
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Wrangler

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #43 on: 08 September 2021, 06:03:57 »
The Vengeance has been dated to 2682 , according to MUL. Probably because of a snippet in the SLSB, where some future First Lord's future wife served on one.
Yeah, the old canon had the ships introduced after Star League Civil War was over
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
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Hellraiser

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #44 on: 09 September 2021, 00:46:00 »
IIRC, the Vengeance was always mentioned as a SL era ship except the one place that gave it a date, Battlespace.

You had quotes of it in, IIRC, DS&JS, TRO2750, & the SLSB as all being used in the SL Era.

Then along comes Battlespace that gives dates & amazingly like half the ships from DS&JS were all given the same year at the end of the SL.

As if every DS was suddenly developed right as Terra fell.

I never bought into those dates myself, seemed really lame, and in the case of some ships was clearly in error based on conflicting fluff.

Eventually they corrected the date from, like 2782 or whatever late date BS had to something earlier to match other fluff from previous sources.

I'm glad they backdated it to match previous fluff, it seemed lame that every other ship in BS had the same intro date.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

maxcarrion

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #45 on: 09 September 2021, 04:02:39 »
For almost any age you can probably get a lot of work by keeping things relatively small.  The Leopard CV is more than enough to overpower any jumpship, the squadron can easily deal with most common droppers, even an overlord with all 6 ASF would not stand a chance.

Sure you can participate in larger naval engagements but you can also easily get hired on for patrols, customs work, garrisons, and losing a single dropper is something that can, potentially, be replaced without the sort of wealth reserved for planetary governments.  Cosy up to some of the larger merc groups and they'll hire you on to run orbital/air support while they run ground operations.  Your dropships are small, fast and well armed enough that they can act as superheavy fighters running the superior dropship EWAR package to cover the smaller fighters and small craft.  Additional fighter and small craft frames can be carried in the cargo carrier allowing mission specific fits.  The droppers run from fairly common to ubiquotous with nothing too high tech meaning spares and supplies should always be easy to source.

DS1 - Leopard CV - Blackwater superiority squadron
DS2 - Leopard CV - Multirole squadron (external ordinance carriers)
DS3 - Leopard CV - converted to 4 small craft bays - boarding actions, resupply etc
DS4 - Avenger - Tip of the Spear/high altitude bomber
DS5 - Buccaneer - keep out of trouble, carries spares/supplies etc.  Can be refit for superior survivability, e.g. Fed Suns refit.

CVB

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #46 on: 09 September 2021, 06:17:36 »
IIRC, the Vengeance was always mentioned as a SL era ship except the one place that gave it a date, Battlespace.

You had quotes of it in, IIRC, DS&JS, TRO2750, & the SLSB as all being used in the SL Era.

Then along comes Battlespace that gives dates & amazingly like half the ships from DS&JS were all given the same year at the end of the SL.

As if every DS was suddenly developed right as Terra fell.

I never bought into those dates myself, seemed really lame, and in the case of some ships was clearly in error based on conflicting fluff.

Eventually they corrected the date from, like 2782 or whatever late date BS had to something earlier to match other fluff from previous sources.

I'm glad they backdated it to match previous fluff, it seemed lame that every other ship in BS had the same intro date.

Actually DS&JS was the culprit:
Monolith: 2776
Seeker: 2815
Condor: 2801
Excalibur: 2786
Overlord: 2762 (ok by itself, but very crowded timeline with the Lee which had debuted only six years before)
Avenger: 2816
Vengeance: 2782
Mammoth: 2808
Behemoth: 2782

I can believe some designs at the end of the Amaris War: Member state yards counting on the replacements needed for the SLDF and taking advantage of the destruction of the TH yards.
But those new designs right in the 1st SW, while yards were nuked left and right?
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Wrangler

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #47 on: 09 September 2021, 11:58:53 »
Actually DS&JS was the culprit:
Monolith: 2776
Seeker: 2815
Condor: 2801
Excalibur: 2786
Overlord: 2762 (ok by itself, but very crowded timeline with the Lee which had debuted only six years before)
Avenger: 2816
Vengeance: 2782
Mammoth: 2808
Behemoth: 2782

I can believe some designs at the end of the Amaris War: Member state yards counting on the replacements needed for the SLDF and taking advantage of the destruction of the TH yards.
But those new designs right in the 1st SW, while yards were nuked left and right?

That does beg question what was being used in Mammoth/Behemoth Cargo Dropship roles prior to it. I know we have the "generic" cargoship in the form of the Jumbo, but there aren't many cargo ships the large capacity.  Then you also have  passenger liners, which screams needing something before it.  The Princess was in service 2657, but that still need need non-luxary dropships out there. I seriously doubt Mantee would be used as passenger / cargo ship, but who to say since there no fluff on it. It was cargo ship before it's Mech carrier variant was made. Jumbo could only carry like 18 people in passenger wise.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #48 on: 09 September 2021, 13:00:37 »
BT has been missing large cargo & passenger carriers for a long time.

*snip*
DS1 - Leopard CV - Blackwater superiority squadron
DS2 - Leopard CV - Multirole squadron (external ordinance carriers)
DS3 - Leopard CV - converted to 4 small craft bays - boarding actions, resupply etc
DS4 - Avenger - Tip of the Spear/high altitude bomber
DS5 - Buccaneer - keep out of trouble, carries spares/supplies etc.  Can be refit for superior survivability, e.g. Fed Suns refit.

But none of that fits the original post- it is not a fighter carrier group, but a torpedo boat squadron style group.  The dropships are gunships with maybe a fighter/small craft or two, but assault/gunship dropships designed to break or create blockades.  With a SL heritage as a gunship squadron, I do not think they would have been equipped with Leopards . . . now they might have a Leopard when you get to the 3000s, being forced to have it as a replacement but it would definitely be the red-headed stepchild.
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CVB

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #49 on: 09 September 2021, 14:02:19 »
That does beg question what was being used in Mammoth/Behemoth Cargo Dropship roles prior to it.

SLSB had them both introduced in 2658. MUL solved the problem by listing both, two 2658 and two later "standard" variants.
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Wrangler

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #50 on: 09 September 2021, 15:06:47 »
SLSB had them both introduced in 2658. MUL solved the problem by listing both, two 2658 and two later "standard" variants.
I see, another intro date change. I guess they were using Jumbo DropShips for everything.  Maybe variant for passengers. (shrugs)

Though running a Mercenary DS Squadron in Star League era must been complicated. Hell, I'd properly working in the Periphery since League is everywhere.
« Last Edit: 09 September 2021, 15:15:26 by Wrangler »
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
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Hellraiser

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #51 on: 09 September 2021, 16:02:26 »
Actually DS&JS was the culprit:
And that's what happens to Memory.
For some reason I thought it was BS that gave the dates all clustered together.




SLSB had them both introduced in 2658. MUL solved the problem by listing both, two 2658 and two later "standard" variants.
IIRC wasn't part of that issue being that they were Prototyped by the SLDF but then the plans were stolen & they only showed up later from another faction, or something like that?
I feel like there was a bit of a fluff story around their production.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #52 on: 09 September 2021, 16:03:39 »
BT has been missing large cargo & passenger carriers for a long time.

But none of that fits the original post- it is not a fighter carrier group, but a torpedo boat squadron style group.  The dropships are gunships with maybe a fighter/small craft or two, but assault/gunship dropships designed to break or create blockades.  With a SL heritage as a gunship squadron, I do not think they would have been equipped with Leopards . . . now they might have a Leopard when you get to the 3000s, being forced to have it as a replacement but it would definitely be the red-headed stepchild.

If you're looking at potential blockade busters, here's a crazy thought for early on in your unit's history: SLDF Mule Pocket WarShips[/i].  Bit over twice the armor of the standard Mule, plus a trio of Barracuda launchers and White Shark launchers in each fore-quarter, a squadron of aerospace fighters to support it, and 413.5 tons of cargo in reserve.

Also, have you considered a Pueblo?  They're meant to duplicate cargo droppers, and can carry nearly 1600 tons of cargo, but are also well-armed and well-armored, with an extensive array of sensors, and even had an HPG early on, which should be fun with nascent ComStar.

Lastly, in addition to the Model 96 Elephant, which got mentioned, the Intruder makes for a handy and versatile raider and assault ship that'd be around early on, too.
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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #53 on: 10 September 2021, 06:18:05 »
IIRC wasn't part of that issue being that they were Prototyped by the SLDF but then the plans were stolen & they only showed up later from another faction, or something like that?
I feel like there was a bit of a fluff story around their production.

True, SLSB p. 165. They were developed privately by Krester. The TH reneged on the original permission to sell the ships sphere-wide. The prototypes were promptly stolen by an unmarked JS and sold to an unknown party. The TH then allowed Krester to sell the classes w/o restriction, assuming that the buyer would reverse enegineer them anyway.


Also, have you considered a Pueblo?  They're meant to duplicate cargo droppers, and can carry nearly 1600 tons of cargo, but are also well-armed and well-armored, with an extensive array of sensors, and even had an HPG early on, which should be fun with nascent ComStar.

Nice ship, but with a price tag higher than a McKenna, there probably weren't all that many built.
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Wrangler

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #54 on: 10 September 2021, 06:38:35 »
I wish inflation could be adjusted.  What costs alot while they were new and tech was new doesn't mean its same by time you get down the years when tech more common.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #55 on: 10 September 2021, 09:18:27 »
Yeah, in the OP the background story was they would be a regular SLN assault DS squadron that did not go on the Exodus.  They are not going to have spec ops ships or other things like that . . . they will start off with 6 of the exact same ship.
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Daryk

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #56 on: 10 September 2021, 17:14:41 »
Plus a support ship or two, and probably a JumpShip...

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #57 on: 10 September 2021, 17:29:20 »
If you go with an all identical fleet to start with & you want to be able to still play it in the SW era then its hard to argue with the Achilles for what you are wanting.

Fastest & most Armored with a small detachment of Shuttles/Fighters/Marines.

Its honestly the best of the "Assault" droppers & my only complaint about it is jealousy that it isn't produced in the FedCom, lol.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Mercenary DS Squadron
« Reply #58 on: 10 September 2021, 17:50:47 »
Well, a lot could depend on what you use for a "support" ship.  Creative enough accounting could put a CV variant into that role.