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Author Topic: How much do these things help a dropship?  (Read 1403 times)

Wolf72

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How much do these things help a dropship?
« on: 16 August 2022, 16:08:14 »
probably more for fluff/campaign:

ECM
Communications Equipment? (how much?)
Active Prove
Radars (sat imagers)
Remote Sensors
MASH
Tug Adapter
Field Kitchen

I've got the basics, but was looking for a more detailed explanation (a few lines please & thank you, not full paragraphs)
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 16:10:54 by Wolf72 »
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #1 on: 16 August 2022, 16:12:58 »
DropShips have the equivalent of 3 tons of Communications Equipment as part of their controls.  If you want more of a bonus, you need four extra tons of it.

pokefan548

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #2 on: 16 August 2022, 17:15:31 »
At least for the intents and purposes of a normal accounted-for crew and passenger complement, all of those except remote sensors are already considered part of every Large Craft. Remote sensors might be handy for security around your DropSite, but unfortunately I don't believe they're particularly reliable unless you've got enough that you can notice several in one area going out all at once.

EDIT: Oh, and Tug Adapters are good around a shipyard, but otherwise they're pretty specialized.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 18:45:30 by pokefan548 »
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AlphaMirage

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #3 on: 16 August 2022, 17:38:42 »
Tug Adaptors are only useful on dedicated Tugs and those that push them around. I mostly use them to push space stations around or salvage Warships.
Most of these weird things are more useful on Small Craft than Dropships. ECM can mildly shield your adjacent formation from attack. Active Probe is good at punching through that ECM but again on Small Craft and maybe Aerospace Fighters. Sat Imagers are amazing on Satellites or Small Craft, although they have minimal mass so the Dropship could easily add them but I'd still use Small Craft.

MASH is super-useful on a major troop transport or support craft same with a Field Kitchen. However, I'd probably put them on vehicles so they can be closer to the front than a Dropship should be. They could be useful if the dropship is to be deployed as a mobile work base however.

Extra Comm Equipment can enable the dropship to monitor more remote sensors and maintain multiple satellite uplinks but still kinda iffy, very situational.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #4 on: 16 August 2022, 18:10:08 »
DropShips have the equivalent of 3 tons of Communications Equipment as part of their controls.  If you want more of a bonus, you need four extra tons of it.

14? ... it's 15 isn't it ... 14 is max, so add +11 more if I want. perfect.

Pokenfan548: wait, they don't automatically come "included" right? ... my hypothetical 5,000t dropship has the sat imagers already? ... MASH, kitchen, etc? (it would make sense there is some sort of services available ... thinking firefly or expanse/rocinante)
« Last Edit: 23 August 2022, 23:54:31 by Wolf72 »
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #5 on: 16 August 2022, 18:20:01 »
The MASH/Field Kitchen functions cover the crew and carried passengers.  If you want capacity beyond that, it's worth the single digit tons to install them.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 18:23:21 by Daryk »

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #6 on: 16 August 2022, 18:22:07 »
Alpha: aha, so add most of those (well I could!) but adding those can be done w/o any issues or overlap. skip the tug adapter (I'm makig a patrol craft with at least one troop bay for additional marines (and prob steerage quarters to ease up on consumables).  Radars, comm, kitchen, mash ... all good for a 3000-3025ish model.

Daryk: field kitchen covers +150 (and the 3 crew it takes) ... it's needed, lol. I have a near platoon of marines added then another infantry bay. 

I like to pad my DS too, so they have quarter space, cargo room for consumables, plenty of armor and communications.  (thank you MM ... glad I'm not trying to do this by hand!)

(thanks guys, feedback very, very helpful.)
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 18:25:18 by Wolf72 »
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pokefan548

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #7 on: 16 August 2022, 18:49:38 »
Sorry, should have been more specific. Large Craft have their own ECM/Active Probe systems that work a bit differently and are incompatible with the 'Mech scale ones. Large craft do have some really good sensors, but don't come with Satellite Imagers by default; their onboard sensors are mostly good for keeping an eye on system traffic. As was said earlier, MASHes and Field Kitchens are already accounted for insofar as your quarters, most Large Craft won't need surplus MASH units even with cargo/transport bay occupants. As for comms equipment, Large Craft already come with an equivalent 7 tons, and have their own HQ bonus equal to 7 tons.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 18:52:25 by pokefan548 »
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Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #8 on: 16 August 2022, 18:51:13 »
oooh, that clarifies things ... thanks!
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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #9 on: 16 August 2022, 19:12:32 »
Pokefan said it more clearly, but that was what I was trying to convey.  You don't need to install any MASH or Field Kitchen equipment to cover the crew and passengers.  Those come with the quarters for free.  Capacity beyond that, though, would merit the investment.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #10 on: 16 August 2022, 19:38:35 »
thanks.  was just thinking if part of its mission was to provide additional support to ground/space operations that added MASH
might come in handy.
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pokefan548

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #11 on: 16 August 2022, 19:47:16 »
Probably best to just load a dropper with MASH trucks, or maybe mod a Small Craft to have a MASH theater if you need a really short response time.
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #12 on: 16 August 2022, 19:49:34 »
Those are definitely better ideas if money is a factor.  The DropShip multipliers are the worst of them all.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #13 on: 16 August 2022, 19:52:31 »
one last question: DS have 3 tons comm equipment or 7? ... DS are considered large craft, right?


wait, edit here, ... do BA Marines (first tab in MM if you're looking) need to have a BA transport Bay? ... or if you assign them quarters (min of steerage, so 5t each) does that count?  Also, that means they are their own techs, so to speak?
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 19:55:52 by Wolf72 »
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #14 on: 16 August 2022, 20:04:33 »
TechManual, page 212:
Quote
Small Craft and DropShips incorporate communications equipment as well (equivalent to 3 tons of such equipment) as part of their cockpit and control systems.

As for BA, bays mean you can deploy them in combat and use the bay for maintenance.  Given how relatively light they are, they're worth it.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #15 on: 16 August 2022, 20:08:48 »
TechManual, page 212:
As for BA, bays mean you can deploy them in combat and use the bay for maintenance.  Given how relatively light they are, they're worth it.

Thanks, Daryk.

Using as on-board marines.
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pokefan548

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #16 on: 16 August 2022, 20:45:33 »
Having them as permanently assigned marines makes them part of the crew, thus requiring quarters. That said, BA and CI carried in bays still count equally to your Marine Points Score, so either/or works depending on how you want to run things.
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Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #17 on: 16 August 2022, 20:49:35 »
Having them as permanently assigned marines makes them part of the crew, thus requiring quarters. That said, BA and CI carried in bays still count equally to your Marine Points Score, so either/or works depending on how you want to run things.

the more the merrier!  >:D
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pokefan548

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #18 on: 16 August 2022, 21:06:48 »
the more the merrier!  >:D
Bear in mind, on long voyages where plenty of "accidents" can happen, it may be prudent to provide at least a few nice things to the people you're allowing to wear heavily-armed power armor inside the ship.
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Jellico

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #19 on: 17 August 2022, 03:43:45 »
TechManual, page 212:
As for BA, bays mean you can deploy them in combat and use the bay for maintenance.  Given how relatively light they are, they're worth it.

Compare the Caerleon and the NL-45.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Caerleon
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/NL-45_Gunboat

The Caerleon uses BA compartments. These are the same as you might see on an APC. They provide short term storage for BA from the mothership to the target.
The NL-45 uses BA Bays. These provide long term accommodation and repair facilities. They also allow for orbital combat drops, though Jump Jet equipped infantry can exit a Compartment's door at altitude.


Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #20 on: 17 August 2022, 09:17:59 »
The other use of bays when you're installing long term quarters anyway is that those racks are still there for rescuees or POWs...

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #21 on: 17 August 2022, 09:31:47 »
The other use of bays when you're installing long term quarters anyway is that those racks are still there for rescuees or POWs...

that's what I was thinking, too.  If they're VIP/semi-VIP they can displace the troops from quarters back into their bay.

My version of MM (49.6) won't allow compartments into SC or DS, bays only.

Regardless, can cargo space be converted directly to a compartment? (not bay, iirc that is a dedicated item)
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #22 on: 17 August 2022, 09:40:13 »
I convert cargo bays to personnel bays with CONEX boxes and extra life support/water recycling gear.

A compartment "built" that way would still use consumables at the punishing "camping in the cargo bay" rate.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #23 on: 17 August 2022, 13:06:29 »
yup, this is what I have for notes:

1. Seating/Compartment/Cargo: 1 ton per 5 passengers per day (# of passengers /5 * days at 1G = tons of consumables required)
2. Bay: 1 ton per 20 passengers per day ( /20)
3. Quarters: 1 ton per 200 passengers per day ( /200) (do some reverse calculations when I want to dedicate a bit more cargo space towards consumables)

awhile back I read up (in the forums) about consumable consumption.  After some math, those quarters (steerage, baby!) made a lot of sense for anything that resembled months or longer.

Question: Where do bay techs/personnel (warriors/pilots and vehicle crew for that matter, too) fall under? I always assumed that they were in the 1/5 group for some reason.  Now I'm thinking they fall under the 1/20.  (I always try to provide them at least steerage anyway)
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AlphaMirage

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #24 on: 17 August 2022, 13:38:14 »
I believe the Pilot and Chief Tech are in quarters not bays, those quarters are included in the 50 ton overhead for Mech and ASF. I would say vehicle crew are running in the Bay's consumption rate however

Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #25 on: 17 August 2022, 19:57:19 »
Yes, the number of personnel covered in the far right column of the TechManual table are all using the Bay rate for consumables.  Sadly, this doesn't include the AsTechs...

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #26 on: 18 August 2022, 09:26:18 »
Quote
TM pdf p239:
Infantry and battle armor bays, and cubicles for other units, incorporate basic accommodations for the units’ crews and technical support, and so do not require the installation of additional passenger or crew quarters. However, crew for the unit carrying the bay cannot be housed in those bays.

ok, so a Super Heavy Veh. weighing in at 200t in a 200t SH Veh bay (any veh bay really, suppose they have to cut distinctions at some point and just give vehicle bays a pass) has accommodations for the 15 bay personnel and the actual members of the vehicle crew (which could be overly silly, ... MASH, comm gear, field kitchen).  All of those would be at the bay level. (that's 15 bay personnel and 13+ veh. crew ... at least a platoon of people, if not more)

A mech or ASF would accomadate the 2 bay personnel and the warrior/pilot ... again at the bay level.

If you want additional techs then you need to add in more (bay/quarters/compartment).

Alpha: do you have a source for pilot/chief tech?

QuarterMaster Tech: The game behind the Game of Armored Combat!

back to compartments:
Quote
same page under the footnotes ...
† Cannot be mounted on DropShips, Airships (over 301 tons), Naval (over 301 tons), Mobile Structures and Advanced Aerospace units.

answers that conundrum, unless I missed it in errata somewhere.
« Last Edit: 18 August 2022, 09:28:52 by Wolf72 »
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #27 on: 18 August 2022, 09:29:12 »
The 15 bay personnel includes the vehicle crew.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #28 on: 18 August 2022, 09:31:56 »
same for light and heavy vehicles?  (that would make sense, as it's 2+ the basic max vehicle crew ... 3 for light, 6 for heavy, 13 for super heavy)
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #29 on: 18 August 2022, 10:15:22 »
It's actually Max Crew +1...

50 ton vehicles have 4 crew (3 is 45 tons)
100 ton vehicles have 7 (6 is 90 tons)
200 ton vehicles have 14 (13 is 195 tons)