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Author Topic: How much do these things help a dropship?  (Read 1336 times)

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #30 on: 18 August 2022, 23:48:48 »
ach, didn't round up that decimal.  But, thanks!
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #31 on: 19 August 2022, 02:11:59 »
No worries!  Just glad I could help...  8)

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #32 on: 20 August 2022, 00:19:40 »
No worries!  Just glad I could help...  8)

I have quite a few MM dropship designs that are now over-quartered.  I'll probably keep them that way, I would like to think some designers thought to do what they can to make space travel as bearable as possible.

What about BA bays? they all have 6 personnel ... is that 6 techs, or BA+techs (which would be 0 for a C* unit)
« Last Edit: 20 August 2022, 00:26:11 by Wolf72 »
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glitterboy2098

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #33 on: 20 August 2022, 00:53:53 »
unless i'm intentionally trying to play up the whole "cramped lousy quarters" angle, i usually try to fit at least steerage quarters for all the BA/Infantry troops aboard if i have the room. these can easily be fluffed as barracks style set ups, but it makes sense to me that if the ships is meant to haul troops around as Marines or long term assignments, that the designers would account for those bodies in the quartering and life support stuff. (you can always fluff it as them living in the bays too, but the extra mass from the quarters being support systems like firing ranges, workout rooms, workspaces for the officers, etc)

Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #34 on: 20 August 2022, 07:14:42 »
I have quite a few MM dropship designs that are now over-quartered.  I'll probably keep them that way, I would like to think some designers thought to do what they can to make space travel as bearable as possible.

What about BA bays? they all have 6 personnel ... is that 6 techs, or BA+techs (which would be 0 for a C* unit)

My TechManual has three entries for BA Bays.  It seems regular IS units get 2 Techs, clanners get 1, and ComStar/WoB get zero.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #35 on: 20 August 2022, 11:34:19 »
some RP time for C*/WoB  ... "ok, who has points in BA maintenance?"

Just thinking my over-quartered DS now have room to spare for astechs.
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #36 on: 20 August 2022, 11:45:08 »
I usually use double-duty infantry troopers as AsTechs.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #37 on: 22 August 2022, 16:03:27 »
... Large Craft already come with an equivalent 7 tons, and have their own HQ bonus equal to 7 tons.

just doing some digging.  According to my 6th.pdf printing of the TM (and earlier version) the bonus for space stations and large craft/warship is 5 tons.  (Jumpships are 4t).  Just checking to see if there has been a more updated number.
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pokefan548

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #38 on: 22 August 2022, 16:46:05 »
just doing some digging.  According to my 6th.pdf printing of the TM (and earlier version) the bonus for space stations and large craft/warship is 5 tons.  (Jumpships are 4t).  Just checking to see if there has been a more updated number.
In that case, I might be mistaken. I just got off work, so I'm feeling too lazy to check. I do know they still get a flat +2 HQ bonus that overrides any HQ bonuses derived from communications equipment.
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #39 on: 22 August 2022, 18:19:13 »
I think it's five tons too, and I also just got home from work... someone will eventually reference the page cite I gave somewhere up thread...

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #40 on: 22 August 2022, 18:33:34 »
I think it's five tons too, and I also just got home from work... someone will eventually reference the page cite I gave somewhere up thread...

hold on, actually have pdf open!

pg 212.  So, unless there is more updates/errata I guess it is 5.  now, back to my game of Account Tech (not just c-bills, any math!)
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #41 on: 22 August 2022, 18:40:06 »
Cool... glad to know my work-addled brain still works...  8)

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #42 on: 22 August 2022, 18:51:39 »
Cool... glad to know my work-addled brain still works...  8)

don't confuse 'working' with luck!  :P ... I know what you mean though.

back to the very first post ...

Naval Tug Adapters: I assume the minimum thrust rating you can get is 1/2, but in actuality what would be a minimum size tug to push/pull around a 500,000t ship? (I'm not up to that level of math at this time) ... wait quarter points? (like airships).  Given it's a tug, that's not a real problem.

Also where do you mount this? Aft does not seem likely as that is also where the engine vents.  Hull?
« Last Edit: 22 August 2022, 19:21:22 by Wolf72 »
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AlphaMirage

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #43 on: 22 August 2022, 19:21:32 »
Tug Adaptor I think should be mounted in the front/nose at least that is how I have done it with my designs.

How fast do you want the 500 kton mass to move? Each thrust point is 0.5g's of acceleration for the dropship's mass so you can do a little math and figure it out from there.

For instance, the Mule (11.2 kton) optimized for Tug duties (in my setting) has 8 Cruising Thrust Points/12 Max Thrust.

So 11.2 kton x 4g = 44.8 kton/gs worth of thrust so if applied to a 500 kton mass it will be accelerating at slightly less than 0.1gs or about as fast as a Jumpship can move.

If it accelerated at full speed you'd have 6gs x 11.2 kton = 67.2 kton/g worth of movement.


Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #44 on: 22 August 2022, 19:24:23 »
ooh, just realized there's two types of operations I'd want to use it for. 

Recovery, so the tug needs to push it along for a fair distance ... getting to 1G is a good idea.

Repositioning: relatively short distance, so low G is fine.

Nose? so it is "pushing" the target.  For some reason I thought it would be mounted alongside.  either or I reckon
« Last Edit: 22 August 2022, 19:31:59 by Wolf72 »
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AlphaMirage

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #45 on: 22 August 2022, 19:36:43 »
I feel like recovery shouldn't be rushed either unless the crew is in dire need or its about to hit something and be destroyed. My setting's tugs carry a replacement crew that can get the other vessel partially operational (power on and engines at least somewhat operational) by the time they make it to the repair facility where everything else can be fixed. As long as you can fix the KF boom a Jumpship can rendezvous with the tug and stricken vessel at a non-standard point and translate them back to a standard point for repairs.

Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #46 on: 22 August 2022, 19:37:24 »
Tugs in space are all "pushers"...  8)

idea weenie

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #47 on: 22 August 2022, 20:44:52 »
ooh, just realized there's two types of operations I'd want to use it for. 

Recovery, so the tug needs to push it along for a fair distance ... getting to 1G is a good idea.

Actually, you don't lose that much time even at lower accelerations.  If you run the math, accelerating at 1/4 G will take twice as long and wind up using half the fuel compared to accelerating and decelerating at 1G.  So Fuel and Life Support (plus various repair equipment) would be critical items for a tug to bring along if it will be supporting a vessel that is being pushed.

Repositioning: relatively short distance, so low G is fine.

If you are trying to maneuver a 2.4 MTon Leviathan into the repair yard, then that 50 kton Tug will be pushing a total mass of 2.45 MTons.  Assuming you only want 1/4 G accel, that is .5125 MTons * Gs, or 512.5 ktons * Gs needed.  Since the Dropship is 50 ktons, you need at least 512.5ktons*Gs / 50 ktons = 10.25 Thrust rating, rounded up to 11.  Multiplying 50 ktons by 6.5% per Thrust point is 35.75 ktons, or 71.5% of the ship's mass is its engine.

At that point, I'd recommend getting help.  A second Tug Dropship means the two only need a Thrust of 6 (11/2, FRU), for 39% of their mass as engine.


Nose? so it is "pushing" the target.  For some reason I thought it would be mounted alongside.  either or I reckon

In space, the 'center of the thrust needs to go through the center of the mass.  Otherwise, the combined setup will start to spin (similar to how current RCS systems work on spacecraft).

Alongside could work if you are just docking to transfer personnel/equipment/etc.  But if either vessel starts to apply thrust (and the Docking can handle the off-axis thrust), things get interesting.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #48 on: 23 August 2022, 08:48:26 »
alongside: binge watched the entire run of The Expanse over a week, hard to get those images out of my head.  I would think they had reinforced docking systems and synced drives that were able to adjust accordingly.

thanks for the math work help!
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Colt Ward

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #49 on: 24 August 2022, 12:25:45 »
BA Marine quarters are 2 tons heavier than plain Marine quarters, correct?
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #50 on: 24 August 2022, 17:51:35 »
You could do the math that way, sure.

Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #51 on: 24 August 2022, 23:01:10 »
BA Marine quarters are 2 tons heavier than plain Marine quarters, correct?

In MM, there is no distinction ... you need quarters, whether steerage or standard.
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Colt Ward

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #52 on: 24 August 2022, 23:47:26 »
Under HMA they had different sizes, like Officer vs Crew or 1st Class/2nd Class/Steerage.
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pokefan548

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #53 on: 25 August 2022, 02:21:09 »
Okay, so looking at the communications equipment rules in TechManual and A Time of War, DropShips start with an equivalent of 3 tons of communications equipment. That's enough to transmit a signal for about 75 kilometers with line of sight under normal atmospheric conditions. For each ton of communications equipment added, that's another 25 kilometers of TX range. A maximum of 15 tons of communications equipment can be added, for a maximum TX range of 375 kilometers.
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Daryk

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #54 on: 25 August 2022, 03:27:44 »
4 tons equivalent is enough to reach satellites from the ground...  8)

Colt Ward

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #55 on: 25 August 2022, 09:04:21 »
 . . . and for the average horizon, depending on the height of the DS/emitter . . . yeah, or so miles is OVER the horizon and thus LoS does not matter.
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Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #56 on: 25 August 2022, 09:58:30 »
Under HMA they had different sizes, like Officer vs Crew or 1st Class/2nd Class/Steerage.

ah, recommended quarters vs what they actually get.  iirc many Clan DS simply have them all in steerage, or it at least its not uncommon for Clan DS to just have steerage.
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Colt Ward

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #57 on: 25 August 2022, 10:09:20 »
No, they had regular Marines and BA Marines as a separate line in the quarters area.  You are talking about warships and dropships like the Elephant tug that permanently had a BA detachment assigned as part of their security force to defend/launch boarding operations.
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Wolf72

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #58 on: 25 August 2022, 10:21:12 »
fyi I have no idea on HMA.

currently I don't think there is an official difference for who has to have what as far as quarters go.
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Colt Ward

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Re: How much do these things help a dropship?
« Reply #59 on: 25 August 2022, 10:25:35 »
I am not as familiar with the DS construction rules which is why I bring it up.  The difference between 5 tons of quarters for a regular Marine and 7 tons for BA Marines- if canon- could be the storage & support for a suit on a long term nature, just like for the person.
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