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Author Topic: Need some staging help...  (Read 1584 times)

Cannonshop

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Need some staging help...
« on: 17 December 2021, 17:37:30 »
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/war-is-a-grave/msg1790161/#msg1790161

Now, what I need:

I need a decent Star league/Word of blake/Republic of the Sphere setup to fight this.  we're talking a reasonably competent defensive force for Devlin stone, the idea is to fanfic write a good battle, where both sides are fighting intelligently, and actually want to win.

Specific restrictions: the RoTS force can't use nukes.  period.  This is kind of 'the' major handicapper.

and I need the RAF Naval ships to have names, because I suck at naming things.

Links to the specific non-canon ship types are in the original post, and link to the Battletech fanon wiki entries, because they're a little cleaner than what I had. :)

There's also going to be fights at Titan, Earth/Luna L1, and the Nadir point, but while I've worked out OOB's from the Lyrans, (and to a limited extent, Wolf forces) I'm kind of short on really showing the Republic's naval arm as something other than a crude joke.

and this is bothering me.  in this here case, I realize I need to solicit some actual help.

Special conditions:

In the alternate 'verse I'm writing, the RoTS helped maintain 'Stone's peace' by having a big stick-a 91 ship mothball fleet that intimidated the other powers into not restarting their programs until after Gray Monday.  The Lyrans were the first out of the gate because I'm biased as ******.

(See, I admit it!)

since Devlin woke up and found out the Lyrans went on a fleet building rampage while the Fortress was going, they've been cracking those old hulls and fixing them, then crewing them.  It's a mixed bag of pretty much everything out of the Star League era, but no more than two or three of any given model, and the ships in best condition are on the lighter side.  at the point in the story, the RAF's recovery efforts have been about 75% in terms of getting warships ready for crews, getting the crew ready for the ships they're only about 50%. (nobody that side thought about it until they peeked outside and found the Lyrans had godhammered the Falcons with a fleet of new-build warships. Bricks WERE shat, kittens had, whatever colorful metaphor you want to use.)

thus, keep it diverse, except where PWS is concerned-the Republic has three extant designs, and they work, so they're the majority of the Republic's fleet, with the actual warships being adjunct.

good luck?
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Jellico

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #1 on: 17 December 2021, 23:30:19 »

thus, keep it diverse, except where PWS is concerned-the Republic has three extant designs, and they work, so they're the majority of the Republic's fleet, with the actual warships being adjunct.
Castrum
Tiamat
Interdictor
Dragau?

Cannonshop

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #2 on: 18 December 2021, 10:42:37 »
Castrum
Tiamat
Interdictor
Dragau?

Those're types, I need quantities and ship names  to go with the types.  In the canon version of events, we got a pretty limp situation with a pretty obvious predestination.  Basically in the canon, the RAFN didn't put up a credible fight or use intelligent tactics, or unintelligent tactics, or tactics, and the over-all strategy was a situation where they could've outnumbered the Clanners and still lost.

we're stuck with the dog of a strategy, because "Devlin Stone" but I'm angling for a better fight this time, one where my 'pet faction' can actually LOSE.

not saying they're going to, but something where a student could look at the initial starting events and say: "Yeah, the Republic can win this" instead of "What the frak were they thinking??"

To that, I did make a few changes:

1. positioning a jump-equipped reaction force near the Ceres L1, of useful size capable of dividing multiple ways or concentrating force to block breakthroughs.

2. pairing 'Pocket Warships' with Jump-capable warships that have collars to permit in-system strategic mobility...and giving the Republic people who can read a ****** star chart.

The Sol system is the most studied star system in human history, and transitional points would be well mapped to the point you can have pre-loaded data ready to handle your local jumps instead of needing to recalculate every one of them.  I'm going with "The Republic navy isn't completely incompetent".

my main issue is balancing the engagement(s) and action(s) so it's actually exciting and even potentially playable-despite the Wolf-Lyran-kowloonese commander's statement that 'Fair fights are for suckers'.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Red Pins

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #3 on: 18 December 2021, 15:48:28 »
Alright.  I don't really understand what you want, but I can try to help with the nuts and bolts  of the strategy and tactics.  Try to describe what you need differently.  Anyway, here are some ideas of what I might try.

First, Stone knew the only hope to win was an ambush.  Terrain is key, so, use the terrain.  Turn asteroids into directional mines - a few thousand tons of matter in a ships path can seriously cripple it.  Turn strong points into lures, emptied of defensive potential, to allow him to isolate portions of the enemy fleet to concentrate his forces against.  Offer him strong points to bleed his forces; Terran orbit offers a fantastic opportunity for orbital velocity kinetic impacts against nearby ships, something like using fast hovercraft to ram enemy Mechs.

Second, deny the enemy a weapon.  Take away the nukes; we know they just finished a major refit cycle, and Stone expects Ngos to bring nukes as a matter of course, so include better point defence to render all those small ships largely ineffective.  Anti-laser armour on every fighter.  Screen launchers to conceal movement, blind point defence. False panels to conceal massive numbers of drone fighters along the flanks of Republic Warships.

Third, hyperspace tricks to even the odds.  I remember that Kevin Sorbo show, Andromeda, and how the Neitchians (sp) used slipstream drives to scatter his fleet.  Use Jump cores to cause damage to enemy ships as the cores Jump in or out.  That should kill anything too tough to kill with standard Warship weapons.

Fourth, use their assumptions against them.  They've scouted the Terran system, but how far out?  You could uses this with the Jumpship artillery idea.  What other assumptions have they made?
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Cannonshop

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #4 on: 18 December 2021, 16:24:32 »
Alright.  I don't really understand what you want, but I can try to help with the nuts and bolts  of the strategy and tactics.  Try to describe what you need differently.  Anyway, here are some ideas of what I might try.

First, Stone knew the only hope to win was an ambush.  Terrain is key, so, use the terrain.  Turn asteroids into directional mines - a few thousand tons of matter in a ships path can seriously cripple it.  Turn strong points into lures, emptied of defensive potential, to allow him to isolate portions of the enemy fleet to concentrate his forces against.  Offer him strong points to bleed his forces; Terran orbit offers a fantastic opportunity for orbital velocity kinetic impacts against nearby ships, something like using fast hovercraft to ram enemy Mechs.

Second, deny the enemy a weapon.  Take away the nukes; we know they just finished a major refit cycle, and Stone expects Ngos to bring nukes as a matter of course, so include better point defence to render all those small ships largely ineffective.  Anti-laser armour on every fighter.  Screen launchers to conceal movement, blind point defence. False panels to conceal massive numbers of drone fighters along the flanks of Republic Warships.

Third, hyperspace tricks to even the odds.  I remember that Kevin Sorbo show, Andromeda, and how the Neitchians (sp) used slipstream drives to scatter his fleet.  Use Jump cores to cause damage to enemy ships as the cores Jump in or out.  That should kill anything too tough to kill with standard Warship weapons.

Fourth, use their assumptions against them.  They've scouted the Terran system, but how far out?  You could uses this with the Jumpship artillery idea.  What other assumptions have they made?

simplifying my need (though I like some of your tactical and strategic ideas), I'm looking for an order-of-battle or TO&E, something like what I did for the initial Lyran force:

LCS Cyril Dinesen-Marsden (Marsden Class cruiser) CG-1301
CO: Kapitan Erica Von-Jankmon/Hue 002

qty 4 Isegrim class
QTY 2 Claymore class dropships
QTY 2 Overlord A3 Block VI (Overlord PWS)

  • LCS Ferrel's Valley (Landmark Class Destroyer) DD-130101  CO Morrigan Pershaw-Hue 003
    • LCS Kelli Whyte (Sampan IV) LM-1311
    • LCS Sarah Von Jankmon-Deen (Sampan IV) LM-1312
    • LCS Mira Nghien (Sampan IV) LM-1313 ("Lucky 13")
    • LCS Carter Monroe III (Sampan IV) LM-1314
  • LCS Buckland Hills (Landmark Class Destroyer) DD-130102  CO: Cdr Milena Mosovich-Golden Lake 104
    • LCS Cham Nguoc (Sampan IV) LM-1321
    • LCS Marjorie Phillips Ngo (Sampan IV) LM-1322
    • LCS Thanh Carter (Sampan IV) LM-1323
    • LCS Moshe Dayyan-Thanh (Sampan IV) LM-1324

I didn't include names, hull numbers, etc. for the dropships because of how I've got LCN structure envisioned post-reform;  Dropships are seen as ancillary units, like ship's boats, as opposed to actual independent assets of their own.  (you didn't name your fingers, after all, same thing here.  Assault droppers belong to the ship they're assigned in a similar manner, I suppose I could've given them alphanumeric designations and 'nose art names' or something).

I also didn't detail out the individual fighter complements, because...well, because I'm horribly lazy and should've, but didn't.

Now, I'm pretty sure the RoTS does name their PWS dropships, but I'm not 100% on what their naming scheme actually is, or what sort of alphanumerics they'd use.

For that matter, we know the Clans don't use alphanumerics on their ships at all, so the Lyran layout may be an anomaly in the 'verse.

for shorthand:

BB- Battleship or Battlecruiser.
CG-Cruiser-general purpose
DD-Destroyer
LM- Cutter/Missile  (proposed 'LG' would be cutter, gun primary, LE would be cutter, Energy primary)

Number stacking:

BB-13: denotes the flagship of Task Force 13, in this case, a Frederick Steiner class battleship
CG 1301: Denotes the first Cruiser in TF 13.  ("13" for the taskforce, "01" for order of assignment)
DD 130101: First hull in the destroyer group for the first Cruiser in Taskforce 13.  ( "13" for the taskforce, "01" for the cruiser they support, "01" for the first destroyer in that group)
LM 1311: follows a similar format to above, but for the cutters, in this case squadron/patrol/order.  (13 Sqdn, 1st Patrol, 1st hull).  Deployment of cutters is more flexible, and sometimes squadron numbers will not line up with the task force they're assigned to.
« Last Edit: 18 December 2021, 16:36:32 by Cannonshop »
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Red Pins

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #5 on: 18 December 2021, 16:55:26 »
I see.  So.

  • 90 some-odd ships, named
  • dozen or so ASF squadron designations
  • system defends points, stations, locations
  • some sort of resignation system for vessels smaller than true warships

Well.  We'll have to cheat.  Let me see what I can come up with.
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idea weenie

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #6 on: 18 December 2021, 19:40:09 »
90 named Warship?  How many PWS are merely an identifier and a hull number, meaning they were built in larger numbers than expected?

Or have leftover CASPAR logic in the Dragau and Tiamat Intercepters, so when the Dropship gets a 'Crew Knocked out' or 'Crew Killed' the computers recognize that there is no more crew input, and they are still under fire.  This turns the programming into the lethal and efficient killer setup that they once were (but sine they are already damaged they are not as good as they could be).  This turns the usual tactic of shooting holes to kill the crew into a bad idea, as the vessels will be much more dangerous without the crew.

The space stations monitoring the Star-planet pirate points have drone control systems that were being used to make sure the 'anchor' satellites were in the correct positions and broadcasting the correct identifier.  Standard procedure was for a ship to pop in at the pirate point, and receive orders to stay within 5 km of satellite number 4453.  The satellite setup also meant that the station could broadcast encrypted to the satellite, which would broadcast low-strength (no more than 6 km range) to the receiving ship.  The receiving ship would then use a laser to send back to the satellite, where the message is encrypted for transmission back to the station.  Thanks to these existing systems, PWS with drone systems near the stations are far more coordinated/effective.

HPG setups on the various ships and stations mean that the different platforms could have near-live data networks so ships get allocated exactly to where they are needed, rather than guessing what might be there.  Stealth satellites with lots of sensors and onboard HPG would help in this manner.  It also means those ships can issue orders to the PWS at FTL speed.

Basically Terra has traditionally had a tech advantage, time to put it to use.

Even more fun, have a Jumpship pop in with more PWS, but based on the carried Dropships and field strength the distance traveled is all wrong for any of the inhabited systems nearby.  However, that distance is correct for an uninhabited system.  Make the Wolves have to divert to see if that system has additional reinforcements.  The secret - it is actually using a Li-F battery to jump from an inhabited system, to the uninhabited system, and then to Sol.  This is done to hide their actual departure system.

Red Pins

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #7 on: 18 December 2021, 22:33:03 »
https://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/spaceship-names.php

A delightful starship name generator.  But that's about all I can do for you.  I'd suggest 'blurring' the Republic ships - leave the bulk of them nameless except for ones noticeable for whatever reason; 'stack' the remaining DS (those names are only important to the Republicans, so unless you're telling the story from that unit or something, I wouldn't bother giving them names) and use target identifiers, transponder codes ('DS-1425') or whatever.

Same with the DSQNs and ASQNs.  Use your examples, suck as SQN XX(Battlegroup/TF)XX(# of SQNs).

Sorry, Cannonshop, seems you've written yourself into a tight spot.
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Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
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Daryk

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #8 on: 20 December 2021, 10:38:32 »
Did I miss the kinetic strikes against the jump point?  I saw the "cloud" hit, but not the larger impactors.

As far as Republic ship names, I would go with:
Planet names for the largest capital ships
Moon/asteroid names for carriers
Conitnent names for lighter capital ships
City names for PWS/Assault/Carrier DropShips
People names for other DropShips

As far as adapting tactics, those special gauss rounds will be hard to beat.  The only defense against those is to be too hard to hit (which the screen launchers will help with, but not really enough).  Decoy ships could help deplete the number of rounds available to the Lyrans (so that's a possible use for the large number of ships/inadequate number of crews faced by the Republic: a basic drone ship that just flies around has a much simpler computer than a full up CASPAR).  Red Pins' idea of simply massive fighter swarms seems pretty effective, so stick with that.  The numbers should ramp up the closer to Terra (or Mars/Titan/Ceres) the Lyrans get.

Colt Ward

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #9 on: 23 December 2021, 13:50:53 »
What about disposable fighter/SC platforms with 'tanker' SC to let them strike and then fall back towards Terra.

Someone say kinetic strike on the JZ?  I mean there IS a way to do it . . . and literally wipe away anything in a sizeable portion of the JZ w/o warning.

As for Republic old SLDF fleet mix?

What SL-era ships could the Republic have taken from the Blakists with a slight turn of fate?

IMO the most common ship they would have would be the Dantes, which the Blakists had started to build on their own.  Maybe a Dante II with some updated tech from the Jihad- screen launchers, better armor, ER weapons, etc.  To separate them from the ComStar and Blakist Dantes, their naming convention could be famous pre-steam naval battles.  This gives us-
RNS Lepanto
RNS Diu
RNS Trafalgar
RNS Salamis
RNS Actium
plus maybe 1 or two more- depends on how many you want to survive or be rebuilt like the Bordeaux/Flatus.

The next most common IMO would be Suffrens, again b/c they were a ComStar project the Blakists inherited that the Republic could have taken possession of over time.  ComStar's two were named oddly . . . Focht & Manchester- name them for the first paladins that were not VSD?  It would raise their stock to the same level as Focht.

I would also for giggles include the six LFB refit Monsoons on their 3rd or 4th life, either as carriers or the equivalent of IRL amphib transports which would not require as much overhaul of their last specs.  Write it off as the Blakists never wanted to mess with such old designs while they still had more modern SLDF ships.  Keep the SL names-
RSN Thunderer
RSN Richeliu
etc
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Wrangler

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Re: Need some staging help...
« Reply #10 on: 23 December 2021, 15:24:13 »
Personally, I'd be going with Latin names for some of the Republic biggerships.  Perhaps the destroyers or cruisers. It's always been their thing to use Latin.

 Albatros = albatross
 Fortuna = Fortune
 Mare Nostrum = Mediterranean Sea
 Stella Maris = Sea Star
 Oceanus = Ocean
 Rex = Tyrant
 Stella Polare = Polar Star
 Solis = Sun
 Vita =
 Fatum = Destiny
 Tempus fugit = Time Runs away
 Tomador de vida  = Life Taker

There like 8 planets, and dozens of proto-planets / moons. 

This is Terra, Sol.  City names would be very properly used in this navy.
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