Register Register

Author Topic: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra  (Read 5663 times)

Dragon Cat

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7216
  • Not Dead Until I Say So
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #30 on: 29 August 2021, 16:28:14 »
Honestly why the Republic didn't have Mass assault DropShip squadrons and a fully operational SDS on multiple key worlds is a great mystery

For a nation in the middle of aggressive factions defence should have been of paramount importance  the Hegemony only fell from the inside and only then fell to its own army

With an SDS the Republic could have held out throughout the Dark Age I'd have liked that option over the whole Jump bubble/wall
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6457
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #31 on: 29 August 2021, 16:39:32 »
Honestly why the Republic didn't have Mass assault DropShip squadrons and a fully operational SDS on multiple key worlds is a great mystery
Maybe most of the PWS strength was deployed outside of Terra to keep other Houses from interfering while they attempt to absorb Clan Wolf?

Now if this is true, where would those ships go? IlClan? FS? Merc? RotS-in-exile?
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

Dragon Cat

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7216
  • Not Dead Until I Say So
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #32 on: 29 August 2021, 17:32:07 »
I'm guessing against Liao or former Falcon territory both of which were seen as "worse" than Clan Wolf

Stone(r)'s strategy at the end is so confused his plan broken from the go and the fools who still worshiped him bought into it
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7128
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #33 on: 29 August 2021, 17:39:49 »
I'm guessing the SDS was not operational.  Also, Stone knew he was doomed.  So he wanted make sure he engineered right Clan to take possession of Terra.

Nope, his own internal monologue indicates he assumed he could beat the Wolves with what he had.

The genesis of his dumb, DUMB naval strategy is actually spelled out in Hour of the Wolf. He was convinced he could handle things on the ground, so he wanted to preserve his fleet for supporting future operations to retake Republic worlds.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14955
  • The 1st Federated Suns Lancers will arise again!
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #34 on: 29 August 2021, 18:54:54 »
I wonder if Levin had a different plan than Stone eventually went with. More use of PWS's, reactivation of the SDS network around Terra, and serious construction (seriously, one of the most advanced Shipyards in the Inner Sphere and they dont build a Battleship?) and salvage of warship wrecks, heaven knows Terra probably had several floating around that might be salvaged. If nothing else the ground war probably would have included more Mech Regiments than we saw.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22545
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #35 on: 29 August 2021, 19:27:17 »
I would have hoped Levin would have. 

There was recall of entire Border fleets. The only thing I would think is the border fleet could have been spreading in Prefecture X after the recall.  I don't think many were rolled into the army expeditions since they were supposed to be trying not to draw attention to themselves. Castrums would be red flag it was a Republican force.

Given the need for KF Drives, the Jump Ship fleet would likly be scarest. the Castrums could been left in place verses than Terra.  Two docking collars need taking up too much room.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7128
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #36 on: 29 August 2021, 20:29:05 »
I wonder if Levin had a different plan than Stone eventually went with. More use of PWS's, reactivation of the SDS network around Terra, and serious construction (seriously, one of the most advanced Shipyards in the Inner Sphere and they dont build a Battleship?) and salvage of warship wrecks, heaven knows Terra probably had several floating around that might be salvaged. If nothing else the ground war probably would have included more Mech Regiments than we saw.

Let's be honest, the writers had a different plan at one point for the whole shebang. I'm not sure where it got changed or scaled back, but earlier impressions of what the Republic was building (mostly in space, but to an extent on the ground with all those remote drone battlemechs) painted a very different picture of what the battle of Terra was going to look like.

(yes, I'm still bitter about that)
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22545
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #37 on: 29 August 2021, 21:08:06 »
Likely victim of re-writes. (sigh)
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Jellico

  • Spatium Magister
  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5693
  • BattleMechs are the lords of the battlefield
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #38 on: 29 August 2021, 22:45:34 »
I am going to imagine a massive Caspar network was in place, which got done in when the suicide Wolves rammed the space stations. Why else would you have combat space stations?

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11031
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #39 on: 30 August 2021, 01:24:05 »
I thought the Republic didn't want to go the Drone route?
That was the entire switch over for the Tiamat & Dragau lines.
Terra originally had 5 massive combat stations at each Jump Point when Kerensky retook it.
I don't recall them having anything to do with Caspars either, just jump point defense/security.
Kerensky loaded up 15 Dropships with explosives & suicided them into the stations at each point IIRC rather than deal with the defenses in them.
I would have thought with a decade behind the wall that basic SDS base defenses would have been reactivated even if you didn't rebuild a drone network.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7128
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #40 on: 30 August 2021, 02:51:16 »
I thought the Republic didn't want to go the Drone route?
That was the entire switch over for the Tiamat & Dragau lines.

Large drones, no. But the republic had been canonically deploying drone aerofighters and remote drone battlemechs.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14955
  • The 1st Federated Suns Lancers will arise again!
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #41 on: 30 August 2021, 05:32:13 »
Large drones, no. But the republic had been canonically deploying drone aerofighters and remote drone battlemechs.

You actually do see drone mechs used against the Capellans in one book but I think it's more of a 'what might have been' moment.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7128
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #42 on: 30 August 2021, 05:36:51 »
You actually do see drone mechs used against the Capellans in one book but I think it's more of a 'what might have been' moment.

They show up in token moments in hour of the wolf as well, but are functionally just ordinary battlemechs with no thought put towards how and why you'd use drones in the first place.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22545
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #43 on: 30 August 2021, 06:44:49 »
I was reading my physical copy of the ilClan book last night.  It does mention the Republic's use of dropships, but no details on which ones.
They do mention two of the Wolf's Warships, a Cameron Battlecruiser, and Liberator Cruiser taking Titan Shipyards in the initial days of the Battle.  They scrapped the Cameron due to battle damage being too much.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Dragon Cat

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7216
  • Not Dead Until I Say So
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #44 on: 30 August 2021, 07:02:15 »
You actually do see drone mechs used against the Capellans in one book but I think it's more of a 'what might have been' moment.

Was actually a very very cool scene
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14955
  • The 1st Federated Suns Lancers will arise again!
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #45 on: 30 August 2021, 07:16:22 »
I was reading my physical copy of the ilClan book last night.  It does mention the Republic's use of dropships, but no details on which ones.
They do mention two of the Wolf's Warships, a Cameron Battlecruiser, and Liberator Cruiser taking Titan Shipyards in the initial days of the Battle.  They scrapped the Cameron due to battle damage being too much.

Which makes no sense. You literally cannot replace these ships and even if it takes a decade to rebuild it then it would be worth it to get that ship back in service.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22545
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #46 on: 30 August 2021, 08:15:42 »
Which makes no sense. You literally cannot replace these ships and even if it takes a decade to rebuild it then it would be worth it to get that ship back in service.
I didn't say i LIKED what they did....makes me rather angry, but what can I do?  Aerospace Fans are few in number in compared to the Mech-only crowd.   Hopefully in the years to come, maybe Titan can be used to produce new ships to replace Wolf's losses for the new Star League / Wolf Touman.
« Last Edit: 30 August 2021, 20:16:56 by Wrangler »
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6457
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #47 on: 30 August 2021, 10:56:41 »
I didn't say i LIKED what the did....makes me rather angry, but what can I do?  Aerospace Fans are few in number in compared to the Mech-only crowd.   Hopefully in the years to come, maybe Titan can be used to produce new ships to replace Wolf's losses for the new Star League / Wolf Touman.
Maybe they just plan to use the Cameron for parts to get the other WarShips back to 100% fast?
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11031
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #48 on: 30 August 2021, 14:25:41 »
Semi tangent question, but, does anyone know if there is a restriction on having Drones linked to Naval C3?

I'm wondering about a Dragau-1 variant w/ Naval C3 & just curious if the concept is legal.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7893
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #49 on: 30 August 2021, 23:01:54 »
I am going to imagine a massive Caspar network was in place, which got done in when the suicide Wolves rammed the space stations. Why else would you have combat space stations?

because they're cheaper to base your real arm of decision on??  Fighters need basing, they need a place to refuel, and for your day-to-day operations having a fixed base at each of the major jump points makes sense if you're having to watch the budget because so much of it is going into warships you don't have the ability to deploy because you've got a hyperspace wall around your home system.

YOu also need to take into account the psychology of the BTU for a moment: all your major decisions including naval ones, are made by heavy-equipment operators with delusions of adequacy fed by holoprogramming like The Immortal Warriortm.

Thus, the idea that a crust defense, or a strong wall, is an adequate position from which to fight a naval battle.  The enitre mindset is rooted around a personality cult built around a 'mechwarrior-therefore, in-depth strategic understanding of three dimensional warfare simply isn't likely in Stone's Republic for the same reason horse cavalry officers really didn't grasp the use of aircraft in a wet-naval context in 1918.  The original Caspars themselves weren't used effectively by anyone, certainly not up to their potential, because of that same basic cultural blind-spot.

Alaric just copied Kerensky's use of fireships, and for the same reason: he didn't have the strategic understanding necessary to use another type of tactic, because that understanding runs counter to the culture he grew up in, just as it ran counter to Stone's culture.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14955
  • The 1st Federated Suns Lancers will arise again!
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #50 on: 31 August 2021, 07:35:57 »
Only issue with that argument was that Alaric deliberately found the best naval commander he could for the invasion. Someone who should of knew better in how to deploy and fight a naval battle. Which he did, he used superior numbers and cutting a hole in the defenses to get the troops to the surface and not taking on a whole planets worth of defenses. Honestly I think the effort put into the orbital defense would have been better spent at building PWS's at the Titan Yards and maybe a few Dantes.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7128
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #51 on: 31 August 2021, 08:37:09 »
Personally I think it would have been better spent having more than four squadrons of aerofighters defending the orbital zone. But that's just me.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11808
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #52 on: 31 August 2021, 09:29:27 »
Also cutting a hole wouldn't work the same in the truly 3D realm of space combat.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22545
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #53 on: 31 August 2021, 10:10:50 »
It's too bad we're able game out the naval battle with naval squadrons, fighters, etc on MegaMek in controlled encounters. It would have been nice way give some detail we'd like without overloading the writers / developers.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7893
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #54 on: 31 August 2021, 10:50:52 »
Only issue with that argument was that Alaric deliberately found the best naval commander he could for the invasion. Someone who should of knew better in how to deploy and fight a naval battle. Which he did, he used superior numbers and cutting a hole in the defenses to get the troops to the surface and not taking on a whole planets worth of defenses. Honestly I think the effort put into the orbital defense would have been better spent at building PWS's at the Titan Yards and maybe a few Dantes.



Stone's basic flaw was trusting a crust defense.  Alaric found the closest thing available to a competent naval commander in a setting and universe where such honestly doesn't exist, because all the records, schooling, training, and budgets for every faction (even the 'warship faction') is focused on Battlemechs and ground combat.

admittedly, he only NEEDED 'barely competent' to outperform Stone's people.

The truly major flaw of Stone's 'defense' strategy was relying on what is called a 'crust' defense-it operates on the same assumption that you're on a 2 dimensional flat space, that everything is stationary in relation to everything else, and that there's a 'down' direction, with a horizon and cover.

none of this is true in space, but when your best navigators got their job by knowing how to tell the computer to pull up three hundred year old (or older) records without making observations? (aka untrained, aka how the WoB hid the hidden five-by erasing them from the nav updates EVERYONE is using instead of doing their own work or doing their own updates.)

Stations are like Castles-they're a place to store your consumables when you can't afford to carry them all the time, they're also distractions that an enemy has to devote assets to neutralizing,a nd if they're strong enough, that delay can let your maneuver forces exploit the distraction to destroy the enemy, relying on them solely (or even mostly) is a mistake, but it's an easy one to make when your planners don't think too hard about how things work in space.

which nobody in the BTU really does. (well, maybe the pre-reunification Taurians...)

the better bet, would be instead of building bombardment platforms and calling them 'ships' the Republic had actually built and utilized ships with appropriate armament.  Per the Ares conventions, 73,000 Kilometers-the distance from an inhabited planet you need to be in, to legally utilize nuclear ordnance, and nukes are THE weapon for putting an enemy's Naval vessels on the dead list.  The NL-45(smallcraft, ECM?)  made its bones stopping a five-fighter nuke strike-but that was only FIVE FIGHTERS, which isn't a strike package against a naval vessel, it's a token effort launched by someone who focuses only on ground and doesn't kit to fight navies.

even if you 'lose' most of your nuclear missiles in the first salvo, one or two hits is a significant loss of enemy combat power, maybe even enough to cripple their invasion, moreso if you're doing it along the approach after they've smashed the crust defense you put up to collect taxes and duties at the jump points.

But that requires having commands laid out for naval battle, commanded by people who know what they're doing in a naval battle.  Neither of these was true for Stone's personality cult.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11031
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #55 on: 31 August 2021, 11:01:18 »
I'm not sure Nukes were ever THAT common though.

Yes, the Ares Conventions set a distance and Yes, we do see them in the 1st SW, but that was the decent into darkness of massed warfare.

Did we actually see them used ever in the SL era?

Even in the FCCW when we did see them it was a hidden cache & when used it spelled the end for the CO that used them, admittedly that was on the planets surface, but, my point is, do we actually see them get used in a "Legal" manner really ever in canon?

I'm thinking that regardless of if its "Legal" that it is still very much "Frowned upon" by most people.

It seems that, historically, Amaris & the Blakists were the only ones using them "on the reg" and no one associates either of those as "honorable".

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11808
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #56 on: 31 August 2021, 12:02:50 »
I'm not sure Nukes were ever THAT common though.

Yes, the Ares Conventions set a distance and Yes, we do see them in the 1st SW, but that was the decent into darkness of massed warfare.

Did we actually see them used ever in the SL era?

Even in the FCCW when we did see them it was a hidden cache & when used it spelled the end for the CO that used them, admittedly that was on the planets surface, but, my point is, do we actually see them get used in a "Legal" manner really ever in canon?

I'm thinking that regardless of if its "Legal" that it is still very much "Frowned upon" by most people.

It seems that, historically, Amaris & the Blakists were the only ones using them "on the reg" and no one associates either of those as "honorable".

The Reunification War era Star League used them quite heavily, especially against the Taurians, but they did suspend the Ares Conventions for that conflict.

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14955
  • The 1st Federated Suns Lancers will arise again!
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #57 on: 31 August 2021, 12:55:00 »
The Star League believed nules were a first strike weapon. The SLDF was a Total War formation. The Fist Succession War as well as the Second were also heavy nuclear weapon use. And the WoB were very heavily invested in there use, up to and including in the use of defending Terra both against Case White but also against Stones Coalition. Its actually odd that the RoTS didn't use them to defend the orbitals much less the ground.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7128
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #58 on: 31 August 2021, 13:07:52 »
They were almost certainly concerned that the fighting would have escalated beyond their control, particularly if they couldn't take out the clan WarShips. Recall that back during the Jihad the Snow Ravens responded to a nuclear attack on their WarShips by levelling every population center on Galedon.

Once the Republic lost orbital control, the only thing keeping the clans from burning down the defenders from orbit redoubt by redoubt was their own sense of restraint.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14955
  • The 1st Federated Suns Lancers will arise again!
Re: Republic WarShips Battle of Terra
« Reply #59 on: 31 August 2021, 16:46:48 »
They were almost certainly concerned that the fighting would have escalated beyond their control, particularly if they couldn't take out the clan WarShips. Recall that back during the Jihad the Snow Ravens responded to a nuclear attack on their WarShips by levelling every population center on Galedon.

Once the Republic lost orbital control, the only thing keeping the clans from burning down the defenders from orbit redoubt by redoubt was their own sense of restraint.

Planetary Bombardment seems to be a skill the Clans rarely fall back on. I can see the Wolves doing so but only if the Wolves were on the back foot fighting on Terra. The Clans always want to minimize damage. Particularly for a world like Terra which they want to take as undamaged as possible. Interestingly the Ares Conventions allowed for nuclear weapons in space warfare and Alarics own intention to invade Terra was conquest. He made no bid at all which also removed any hamstrings that the Republic might have had themselves for there own defence. In the end, PWS's, aerospace fighters, and the Republic Warships letting loose with nukes early on might have actually removed the Wolf Warships from the playing field early on and removed the threat they posed. Because the Wolves jumped in with the intention of a conventional fight. Nukes were the last weapon they would have prepped to use. Heck, most probably didnt even have any onboard besides the McKennas Pride.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.