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Author Topic: Troop transport  (Read 1946 times)

Coriendal

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Troop transport
« on: 16 August 2022, 06:44:44 »
When adding infantry transport it says 5 tons, is that per platoon or person?  I am using megamek lab and it doesn't specify there.  If no one answers I will dig my books out later, but sometimes the answer is hidden on a non-obvious page.

Thanks

Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #1 on: 16 August 2022, 07:00:51 »
It depends, but the line you're looking at sounds like a bay for a platoon of Foot Infantry.

grimlock1

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #2 on: 16 August 2022, 09:43:55 »
I think it's 1 ton per trooper of BA.  The Kirghiz C could carry 2 points of BA and had 10 tons allocated. 
Regular leg infantry is like 3 tons/platoon...
Don't remember about Jump, Motorized, or Mechanized.   Also can't even remember the diff between the last 2.
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Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #3 on: 16 August 2022, 09:45:54 »
He's looking at bays on DropShips, not compartments in vehicles.

AlphaMirage

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #4 on: 16 August 2022, 12:41:32 »
The answer is in TechManual in the beginning of the infantry chapter

Lanceman

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #5 on: 16 August 2022, 13:58:24 »
When adding infantry transport it says 5 tons, is that per platoon or person?  I am using megamek lab and it doesn't specify there.  If no one answers I will dig my books out later, but sometimes the answer is hidden on a non-obvious page.

Thanks

It's per platoon, total number of people depending on bay type (i.e. a jump infantry bay supports up to 21, while the standard foot bay supports up to 28). MegaMek itself allows you to load any type of infantry unit onto a transport as long as it doesn't exceed the total tonnage devoted to infantry, but I'm not sure how that squares with things as written in the TechManual. Which is interesting, because I think if you don't allow for that we don't have any canon motorized or mechanized infantry transports.
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Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #6 on: 16 August 2022, 15:10:32 »
Errata finally acknowledged the Taurians exist.  The limit is 30 for Foot infantry in a bay now.

dgorsman

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #7 on: 16 August 2022, 15:14:10 »
It's per platoon, total number of people depending on bay type (i.e. a jump infantry bay supports up to 21, while the standard foot bay supports up to 28). MegaMek itself allows you to load any type of infantry unit onto a transport as long as it doesn't exceed the total tonnage devoted to infantry, but I'm not sure how that squares with things as written in the TechManual. Which is interesting, because I think if you don't allow for that we don't have any canon motorized or mechanized infantry transports.

TechManual specifies in tons of space, not head counts.  Canon designs list by platoons (and only foot at that).  Unless that's been changed in newer releases?
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Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #8 on: 16 August 2022, 15:18:52 »
TechManual gives the head count to tonnage numbers in the far right column of the table.  That particular table has had several errata updates over the years.

Coriendal

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #9 on: 17 August 2022, 09:29:18 »
"The answer is in TechManual in the beginning of the infantry chapter."

Thank you for the clear, concise answer to my question.

Colt Ward

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #10 on: 24 August 2022, 12:27:00 »
TechManual gives the head count to tonnage numbers in the far right column of the table.  That particular table has had several errata updates over the years.

Bah, volume vs weight requirements . . .
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RifleMech

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #11 on: 25 August 2022, 00:50:09 »
See the table for transport bays in TechManual page 239. 

Infantry Compartments depend on the weight of the troopers and are generally for shorter rides.
Conventional Infantry TM pg, 155.
Battle Armor Infantry can either go 1 per ton or go by the weight of the BA. There's a weight table in TM pg, 163.
The table in AU&E page 255 gives added weights for a variety of advanced infantry types. In some cases though, it'll give a page number to look them up as there's various sub types with different weights.
A Time of War Companion also has additional Beast Mounted Infantry Weights and K9 Infantry. pg 133-135. K9 Infantry are Foot Infantry so use TM weights.  Unless traveling long distances, I don't think you'd need to worry too much about the Beast Mounted Infantry. I'm just trying to be complete.


Infantry Bays are intended for longer journeys and their weight varies depending on the platoon type. See the table in TechManual I mentioned above.  Unfortunately, we don't have transport bays for advanced infantry. Not that I can find anyway.  I usually start with the Infantry Bay for their motive type and modify it from there. Here's a couple examples.

Combat Engineers = Depends on motive type.
Motorized Field Gun Infantry, 7 tons + weight of cannons + weight of ammo.
Beast Mounted Infantry = Foot Infantry Bay + Cargo, Livestock compartment.

I'll post a question in the rules form. It'd be nice to know for sure.

Hellraiser

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #12 on: 25 August 2022, 00:55:37 »
I thought BA were 2 tons per BA for Aerospace  Bays.  And you got 1 bed for a tech per Squad/point/L1  (So 8-10-12 tons by faction)
1 Ton per Trooper was APC weights, not Dropships.

5 Tons is he Dropship Bay amount for Foot Infantry Platoon.
Jump Platoon is 6
Motorized in 7

Mechanized are 20 tons IIRC.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #13 on: 25 August 2022, 00:59:07 »
TechManual specifies in tons of space, not head counts.  Canon designs list by platoons (and only foot at that).  Unless that's been changed in newer releases?
There are a very small # of dropships that actually list the infantry in Jump/Mechanized bays, but yes, "Most" are Foot.

That said, IIRC, you can "fluff" it as taking the extra weight for the Bikes/Jetpacks from "Cargo".
Its not like they are bunking down w/ the heavy gear after all.
So if you are moving Motorized platoons you allot 2 tons of Cargo for the bikes & have them bunk in foot bays.

On a side note, I always thought it was odd that the "Bikes" are lighter in a Dropship than they are inside an APC.  (Foot + 2 Tons v/s Foot + 3 Tons)
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RifleMech

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #14 on: 25 August 2022, 05:10:19 »
I thought BA were 2 tons per BA for Aerospace  Bays.  And you got 1 bed for a tech per Squad/point/L1  (So 8-10-12 tons by faction)
1 Ton per Trooper was APC weights, not Dropships.

5 Tons is he Dropship Bay amount for Foot Infantry Platoon.
Jump Platoon is 6
Motorized in 7

Mechanized are 20 tons IIRC.

The tonnage for Battle Armor Bays does work out like that only they do have a limit of 6 occupants. So the IS BA can have 2 techs, the Clans 1 tech, and Comstar/WoB have to do their own repairs.

The 1 ton per BA is for cargo bays.

A Mechanized Infantry Bay weighs 8 tons for 7 troopers. To carry a full platoon you'd need 4 bays weighing a total of 32 tons.



There are a very small # of dropships that actually list the infantry in Jump/Mechanized bays, but yes, "Most" are Foot.

That said, IIRC, you can "fluff" it as taking the extra weight for the Bikes/Jetpacks from "Cargo".
Its not like they are bunking down w/ the heavy gear after all.
So if you are moving Motorized platoons you allot 2 tons of Cargo for the bikes & have them bunk in foot bays.

On a side note, I always thought it was odd that the "Bikes" are lighter in a Dropship than they are inside an APC.  (Foot + 2 Tons v/s Foot + 3 Tons)

What?

Hellraiser

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #15 on: 25 August 2022, 23:30:50 »
What? 
He made a comment that DropShip Infantry Bays always seem to be Foot Bays.
I pointed out there there are a "Few" out there that list them as Motor or Jump troops & not Foot Troops.
Off the top of my head, I "think" the Elephant, Conquistador, &/or, Aurora might all have Motor or Jump troops instead of Foot.


Or are you asking about how the Bikes got lighter?
Cargo Bay Foot = 3 Tons
Cargo Bay Motor = 6 Tons
Bay Quarters Foot = 5 Tons
Bay Quarters Motor = 7 Tons

A normal Foot/Motor platoon is 3 tons of Bodies & 3 tons of Bikes

Putting them in a travel bay adds 2 tons to the Foot Troops when you stick them in a Dropship.

The bodies go up to 5 tons, from bunks & lockers, etc etc.
But, the bikes drop down to 2 tons?  (This always seemed odd to me)
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RifleMech

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #16 on: 26 August 2022, 18:53:47 »
He made a comment that DropShip Infantry Bays always seem to be Foot Bays.
I pointed out there there are a "Few" out there that list them as Motor or Jump troops & not Foot Troops.
Off the top of my head, I "think" the Elephant, Conquistador, &/or, Aurora might all have Motor or Jump troops instead of Foot.


Or are you asking about how the Bikes got lighter?
Cargo Bay Foot = 3 Tons
Cargo Bay Motor = 6 Tons
Bay Quarters Foot = 5 Tons
Bay Quarters Motor = 7 Tons

A normal Foot/Motor platoon is 3 tons of Bodies & 3 tons of Bikes

Putting them in a travel bay adds 2 tons to the Foot Troops when you stick them in a Dropship.

The bodies go up to 5 tons, from bunks & lockers, etc etc.
But, the bikes drop down to 2 tons?  (This always seemed odd to me)


I was asking about the bikes getting lighter. The bikes dropping down 2 tons threw me.


It isn't just Motorized Infantry with this issue. Jump Infantry also have it. They go from 4 tons in a compartment to 6 tons in a bay. So they loose some weight some where too.




Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #17 on: 26 August 2022, 19:34:28 »
I suspect the issue is down to the fact the vehicles ALSO carry the infantry, so to avoid double counting, there's some efficiencies when going from compartment to bay.

Hellraiser

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #18 on: 26 August 2022, 20:18:02 »
It isn't just Motorized Infantry with this issue. Jump Infantry also have it. They go from 4 tons in a compartment to 6 tons in a bay. So they loose some weight some where too.
Jump is actually still in line with Foot with the "Beds" being 2 tons.

Foot 5 Tons =  Foot-3 + Beds-2  = 5 Tons
Jump 6 Tons = Foot-3 + JetPacks-1 + Beds-2 = 6 Tons

Motor 7 Tons = Foot-3 + Bikes-2/3 + Beds-1/2 = 7 Tons

So either the Bikes loose 1 ton & the beds are standard, or,  the Bikes are the same & the "Beds" for Motor Troops are "Lighter".
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Hellraiser

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #19 on: 26 August 2022, 20:20:13 »
I suspect the issue is down to the fact the vehicles ALSO carry the infantry, so to avoid double counting, there's some efficiencies when going from compartment to bay.

Yeah but APC jumpseats are for a trip of minutes/hours in any sort of comfort.
The Bay is for days of travel, a proper cot or sub style bunk beds or something.
I think someone just didn't do that math 20+ years ago and its never been corrected.
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CVB

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #20 on: 26 August 2022, 21:07:59 »
Jump is actually still in line with Foot with the "Beds" being 2 tons.

Foot 5 Tons =  Foot-3 + Beds-2  = 5 Tons
Jump 6 Tons = Foot-3 + JetPacks-1 + Beds-2 = 6 Tons

Motor 7 Tons = Foot-3 + Bikes-2/3 + Beds-1/2 = 7 Tons

So either the Bikes loose 1 ton & the beds are standard, or,  the Bikes are the same & the "Beds" for Motor Troops are "Lighter".
Föot platoons normally get 28 men, Jumpers get only 21.

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Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #21 on: 26 August 2022, 21:12:45 »
30 now, not 28.  Errata acknowledged the existence of the Taurians.

CVB

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #22 on: 26 August 2022, 21:21:38 »
"Normally", there are exceptions ;)
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Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #23 on: 27 August 2022, 05:11:03 »
True, but the bay gives you 30 racks.

RifleMech

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #24 on: 27 August 2022, 06:57:19 »
Jump is actually still in line with Foot with the "Beds" being 2 tons.

Foot 5 Tons =  Foot-3 + Beds-2  = 5 Tons
Jump 6 Tons = Foot-3 + JetPacks-1 + Beds-2 = 6 Tons

Motor 7 Tons = Foot-3 + Bikes-2/3 + Beds-1/2 = 7 Tons

So either the Bikes loose 1 ton & the beds are standard, or,  the Bikes are the same & the "Beds" for Motor Troops are "Lighter".


Not for a 30 trooper Jump Platoon. The Conventional Infantry Weight Table in TM puts their weights at:

Foot Infantry = 2.55 tons
Jump Infantry = 4.95 tons
Motorized Infantry = 5.85 tons

Foot and Motorized get rounded up to 3 and 6 tons but 30 Jump Infantry get lighter by .95 tons when transported.


Yeah but APC jumpseats are for a trip of minutes/hours in any sort of comfort.
The Bay is for days of travel, a proper cot or sub style bunk beds or something.
I think someone just didn't do that math 20+ years ago and its never been corrected.



I think it's a legacy rule that TPTB didn't want to change because it would mess with too many carriers. Platoons are no longer just the generic hand waved units they used to be. They have gotten larger and heavier, which means that they wouldn't fit inside many transports if the rules changed. Basically, it's the Conventional Infantry version of putting a 2 ton BA into a 1 ton Compartment. Instead, they gave us the option to go with handwavium or listed weights. In a way, I like it because I have a hard time picturing an M113 APC carrying 7 troopers on motorcycles. Unfortunately, it also gives us a problem when it comes to bays. And it gets worse when more advanced infantry types get included. A Foot Combat Engineer Platoon weights 5.55 tons. That's more than a Foot Infantry Bay. Trying to fix that though would mean retconning a lot of units.








CVB

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #25 on: 27 August 2022, 07:31:09 »
Of course, many weights, especially for Foot Infantry types are a bit suspect themselves. An 185kg Foot Combat Engineer? Assume 85kg for the average person, that leaves 100kg of equipment carried permanently on foot!
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Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #26 on: 27 August 2022, 08:44:46 »
That practically requires exoskeletons to make work...  ^-^

CVB

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #27 on: 27 August 2022, 09:30:43 »
True. I would really like to see a set of official, rules compliant designs of the TRO3026 exo skeletons and the PPC waldo.
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Daryk

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #28 on: 27 August 2022, 10:33:31 »
You can make the 3026 exoskeletons mostly work with Tech Manual rules on the individual level.  The complication comes in when you try to extend them to a platoon's worth of troops.

CVB

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Re: Troop transport
« Reply #29 on: 27 August 2022, 16:18:19 »
I know, I just want to see official, AKA canon, 3026 units.
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
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