Register Register

Author Topic: What do you consider a good AeroStar to be?  (Read 726 times)

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7874
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
What do you consider a good AeroStar to be?
« on: 29 December 2020, 22:15:46 »
Like the question :

I consider a AeroStar to have the same profile as the old style pre-SW4 one.

Light, 2 Mediums and a Heavy... being clan, I'd add an Assault to this role.

Being 2-3 Points of Light-Medium and 2-3 Points of Heavier.

What's a good mix for you?

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Cannonshop

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5428
Re: What do you consider a good AeroStar to be?
« Reply #1 on: 10 January 2021, 13:44:35 »
Like the question :

I consider a AeroStar to have the same profile as the old style pre-SW4 one.

Light, 2 Mediums and a Heavy... being clan, I'd add an Assault to this role.

Being 2-3 Points of Light-Medium and 2-3 Points of Heavier.

What's a good mix for you?

TT

I don't generally subscribe to 5 fighter Stars, since that's the mark of a failed Clan (Steel Viper).

In general terms, the layout specified by Nicholas Kerensky is 10 fighter stars-which makes more sense in aerial and aerospace combat, as it's a round number, base 5, that permits fighters to work properly-in pairs, as the definition laid out by the Founder is laid out specifically as 2 fighters per 'point' (the minimum combat effective unit of a given classification).

As originally laid out then, 1 'mech is a point.  2 Aerofighters, are a point, 2 Tanks are a point, and so on.

therefore, an Aerofighter Star, is 10 fighters.

Now, going with that, which is the correct formation, as opposed to the Steel Vipers' corruption of using only 5 per star (Likely due to a shortage of Vipers who can actually handle the mental rigors and tasks of aerospace combat at high speed, or possibly because they're just really shitty pilots and the Clan needs to limit the number of fighters they lose to buy more overpriced 'mechs).

that said, your layout is only half-bad, because it's only half-strength, and because it's only half-strength, it can't apply that fantastic per-chassis combat power properly and effectively before being taken apart piecemeal by someone who actually paid attention.

Such as a Jade Falcon aerospace officer.

a proper layout doesn't leave any of your fighters hanging, and doesn't string out your approach or force anyone in your formation to either overthrust to keep up with the cruisers, or throttle back to let the others keep up.

Dogfights are not arena duels.  (this is especially true if you're using the vectored movement rules, or if you're over the ground map.  in either case, a lone fighter is just a target that doesn't know he's dead yet.)

Secondly, unlike 'mechs, fighters have roles, as in they serve specific purposes.  A Vandal might have a small laser or two, but it's too light to take a hit...at all.  Its job, is Recon, and being as blisteringly fast as it is, there's no escort existing that can really do the job of keeping up.

it's a specialist design, either fast recon, or high-speed interception.  It's NOT a dogfighter, it's not a bomb-truck either, it's a streak up and see what's happening, then run back.  Using it any other way is a great way to get rid of a problem aviator by way of enemy fire.

the Visigoth, now, that's a multirole fighter, it can do interception, it can do strikes, it can dogfight.

It's hard to claim taking a star of them is a mistake, because it's versatile and capable in a wide range of roles, regardless of configuration.

But, sometimes you need something heavier, or sometimes you need something a little lighter-maybe the enemy's not running great aircraft, maybe they're stuck with Seydlitz or something that doesn't have the gas for more than a run-and-burn pass.

That's when you go slightly lighter-a design like the Sulla is also a good one to use when you need something that isn't QUITE as potent as a Visigoth, or when you need a decent weapons array and a bit more speed.

For Heavier?  Well, there are all sorts of big, fat heavies out there, because if there's one thing that is beloved by everyone, it's an airframe that can't get out of its own way.  If I need to use an 'assault', it's only going to take up four slots in my formation-because I'll need the others to act as escorts until it can get in line to deliver the heavy anti-warship strikes.  Kirghiz is a good example here.

But it's all a matter of your ROLE and MISSION.  for a general tasks, your 'best' isn't the best in any single category, it's the designs that can pull all the jobs. 

for specific missions, you pick airframes that are optimized to DO those missions.

but hey, don't take my word for it, I'm just a grognard still stuck in the 50s.
« Last Edit: 10 January 2021, 13:47:41 by Cannonshop »
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Tyler Jorgensson

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1710
Re: What do you consider a good AeroStar to be?
« Reply #2 on: 12 January 2021, 10:13:44 »
10 Kirghiz’s dropping two stars of Elementals .... I’ll see myself out now.

But to answer the question I usually break down by weight and role by point. A Star being 10 fighters is usually too big to be the same type (unless we are in the Warship Arms Race ;) ) so if I have a heavier Star, three points might be assault and two heavy. If I’m building a force I’ll generally separate it by DropShip if possible.

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7874
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: What do you consider a good AeroStar to be?
« Reply #3 on: 14 January 2021, 00:28:58 »
My bad Cannonshop, I tend to forget...

I meant to say : 1 Light Point, 2 Medium Points and a single Heavy and Assault Points each to make my standard 3050 era Star.

But for this Aero one, I'm looking for names and such.

2 Light or fast Medium Points, two more Medium or Heavier points and then I'm using a single Kirghiz C Point, Bomb3 and 10CT. ( This is to go for AS ).

To clarify :

I need some AS Aero help, but this unit would also be used during tabletop games...

Thanks,
TT

( Tyler : I so would own you on the ground! )  >:D
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Cannonshop

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5428
Re: What do you consider a good AeroStar to be?
« Reply #4 on: 14 January 2021, 08:53:58 »
My bad Cannonshop, I tend to forget...

I meant to say : 1 Light Point, 2 Medium Points and a single Heavy and Assault Points each to make my standard 3050 era Star.

But for this Aero one, I'm looking for names and such.

2 Light or fast Medium Points, two more Medium or Heavier points and then I'm using a single Kirghiz C Point, Bomb3 and 10CT. ( This is to go for AS ).

To clarify :

I need some AS Aero help, but this unit would also be used during tabletop games...

Thanks,
TT

( Tyler : I so would own you on the ground! )  >:D

I think you need to address this a little differently than you would a regular force.  The mix you describe would be fine for a garrison force that only has one star of Aerospace, but that means being second-line or solahma.

For a front-line Star, I'd recommend no more than two designs.  Why? YOu're Clan, a front line star is going to be operating a long way from resupply, and playing offense against Spheroid scum.  That means damage, and the fewer sets of spares you need, the more of them you can squeeze into ever ton of Clan shipping.

to that end, I recommend you define what your primary mission profiles are going to be, and construct your star accordingly.

Typically, an Air superiority star (or space superiority) needs to be able to hit hard and dogfight.  Thus, why I suggested the Visigoth for your main-line airframe, it's got good payload, good maneuver, good acceleration, and adequate onboard fuel to handle the bulk of missions ranging from escort, to point-interception, to ground support.  the base configurations aren't bad, the base airframe is flexible and durable.

Omnifighters can fill MANY roles, so a good multirole basis is going to be a good fighter to use-that means a balance of speed/armor/payload nearly 1-1-1.

But...if you NEED to have variety (because it looks nicer on the painting shelf)...

Visigoth for your 'spine' of omnifighters.  With good piloting and tactics, it can take down pretty much anything it can catch, and there aren't a LOT of things it can't.

Go three or four points of visigoths.  Then either two points of Kirghiz, or another big, heavy, almost-a-dropship designs to serve as your bomb trucks and various damage-sponge missions (like close engaging a warship).

Light omnis are basically a testimony to "We're short a bunch of cash/lack resources and need to builk out our aerospace forces".

Typically don't go below 25 tons if you need to field lights, and don't go slow-a fast light can deliver a reasonable bomb load at relatively lower risk, but they're not going to win battles outside of a lights-only-trial most of the time.
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

 

Register