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Author Topic: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?  (Read 1501 times)

Minemech

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What would you say are the worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why? You can choose any type of spaceship, and any number to list.

AlphaMirage

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #1 on: 17 March 2023, 11:28:27 »
My personal dislike is the Agamemnon as it just doesn't mount enough armor to serve as a ship of the line like the Black Lion it pretends to be. Its not like there isn't mass to max out its armor and give it some more SI you could drop that 70kton+ cargo down to 50+ and you'd still be able to support a large expeditionary force.

Following that are the Avalon and Quixote missile cruisers. The Avalon's AR-10s use up so much mass when you could instead focus on the Barracuda and White Shark missiles that are more broadly useful. The Quixote needs some more naval lasers for mid-range defense and offense as you 'could' in theory mount enough AMS to counter its offensive power and you have plenty of cargo space in which to do it.

Finally the Suffren is such a mess, with its hodgepodge of capital weapons and weak broadside it is comparably toothless when facing even its Successor State contemporaries.

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #2 on: 17 March 2023, 12:14:55 »
Most carrier ships, of all sizes and shapes, but especially the spheroids like the Union/overlord. They just don’t have the cargo to support any type of campaign, even a moderate skirmish would cause the Unions supplies to dwindle.
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #3 on: 17 March 2023, 12:28:21 »
I've always envisioned it that those were the Star League ideal but there were just as many with the 2 Aerospace bays removed and maybe some Mech Bays to in order to free some space for stores, particularly after the threat of Aerospace fighters dwindled during the Succession Wars.

Daryk

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #4 on: 17 March 2023, 18:45:51 »
Every single OG TRO 2750 ship... they all lacked Point Defenses...  ::)

AlphaMirage

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #5 on: 17 March 2023, 19:34:37 »
Don't need point defense if nobody's shooting missiles at you. Aerospace Wings can intercept any Alamo carrier.

Daryk

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #6 on: 17 March 2023, 19:51:51 »
As long as you've brought Aerospace Wings with you...  ::)

AlphaMirage

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #7 on: 17 March 2023, 19:54:00 »
You're not doing SLDF right without the overkill, minor lord rebels whole Corps drop on them to keep the peace

Daryk

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #8 on: 17 March 2023, 20:05:21 »
The SLDF itself did SLDF wrong for a while there...  ^-^

AlphaMirage

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #9 on: 17 March 2023, 20:10:37 »
I blame the Davions for those 'incidents', First Lord Cameron did nothing wrong

Daryk

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #10 on: 17 March 2023, 20:11:52 »
Touché!  :D

Alan Grant

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #11 on: 18 March 2023, 06:27:44 »
I'm a Marik fan but even I think the Hamilcar is weird to the point of almost being useless. In every situation I'd rather use something else.

It doesn't have enough armor/firepower to be an assault ship in any meaningful right. Thrust is just ok.

The idea of a space assault vehicle is cool. But I don't think the designers really thought it through with the Hamilcar. It's too generic. It's just 'mech bays and aerospace fighter bays. You can send a Leopard or a Union on that mission and achieve much the same results in a spacecraft that can also serve in additional roles/tasks such as raids and planetary assaults better.

It's a Unitasker. Advertised as being designed only to do one thing, and it doesn't do it very well at all.

If I want a space assault vehicle, I'd want:
-A ship with the speed/armor/firepower to hold up in a fight, it needs to be a proper assault ship (or closer to one), it can perhaps get away with being a little lean on firepower since capture rather than kill is the goal, but it needs to be able to hold its own and defend itself reasonably well. Or perhaps a lot of speed, like the Achilles, with enough armor/firepower to survive.
-A combined-arms boarding team. Sure, let's bring 'mechs and some ASF cover, but we also need the small craft and conventional infantry marines or BA marines to actually take the target and secure it deck by deck. If you want to get extremely realistic, having some passenger space (to carry specialists or a prize crew to take control of the captured vessel) isn't a bad idea either.
-(This one is optional) I'd want the ship to have tug capability like the Model 96/97. If it leverages the other things well-enough, like the Nekehono'o with all its firepower and its veritable fleet of small craft and marines, I can overlook the lack of this. But this really is a helpful capability.

You can of course break down those functions across multiple dropships. Conventional marines on a separate dropship, a separate tug, prize crew on a separate dropship. But I just can't forgive the Hamilcar for being so inept at protecting its own 'mech cargo until it gets close enough to deploy them. And with its mediocre acceleration it can't control the engagement very well through speed/maneuverability.

Jellico

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #12 on: 18 March 2023, 21:04:39 »
Most carrier ships, of all sizes and shapes, but especially the spheroids like the Union/overlord. They just don’t have the cargo to support any type of campaign, even a moderate skirmish would cause the Unions supplies to dwindle.
The original trio aren't transports. They are for that last scramble to the beachhead. Not the SLDF's fault no one uses them that way any more.

Daryk

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #13 on: 18 March 2023, 21:10:40 »
Very good point!  :thumbsup:

Cannonshop

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #14 on: 18 March 2023, 22:56:19 »
The original trio aren't transports. They are for that last scramble to the beachhead. Not the SLDF's fault no one uses them that way any more.

Agreed, they're expensive landing craft, not meant to sustain a campaign of any length on their own.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #15 on: 19 March 2023, 18:27:19 »
Any ship without full armor for the tonnage and SI.

Ships that have more than 40% cargo space.
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gyedid

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #16 on: 20 March 2023, 14:11:52 »
Any ship without full armor for the tonnage and SI.

Ships that have more than 40% cargo space.

By those criteria, even the McKenna sucks.  ;)

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Daryk

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #17 on: 20 March 2023, 17:10:37 »
I don't think he was trying to exclude the McKenna...  :D

Paul

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #18 on: 06 April 2023, 23:36:10 »
I think to respond to OP, we need to ignore the kind of idiosyncracies that are due to the game system, and not an in-universe design decision. IE the mass and cargo weirdness and inconsistency on mot DropShips and WarShips, and especially the armor stupidity of not always going full armor given how light it is.

If you apply that filter, the Hamilcar is a good one to list.

I'd also say the Behemoth. The inability to do a DropShip's #1 job for a cargo vessel seems inexcusably dumb to me. At least with something like the Achilles, you can still do a very large % of your job without ever hitting atmosphere (though it'd be better if it could).


WarShips, I'd say:

Inuzama. The mission profile is kind of like why Commandos have a hard time to survive. Lots of firepower, but described as having weak armor, its design intent of rushing in seems justified in SL days, but for a navy that's fledgling, the concept seems a bad use of resources until you have, I don't know, 50-100 WarShips already?

The solution is just ignore Paul.

I am Belch II

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Re: Worst designed ships from an in-universe standpoint? Why?
« Reply #19 on: 28 May 2023, 22:10:42 »
I don't think he was trying to exclude the McKenna...  :D

The McKenna is flawed, the armor is light on the McKenna. Bring it in line with a Texas and you got such a better ship!!! Give it one extra turn to fire all its weapons.

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