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Author Topic: Another weird idea challenge.  (Read 1205 times)

Cannonshop

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Another weird idea challenge.
« on: 17 April 2022, 21:12:19 »
Alright...

Take a canon ASF from your favorite era.

got it found it?

Okay, now, if it has a standard fusion engine, lighten that sucker up.  Standard to light, light to XL, XL to XXL.

now, per this challenge, you can't increase armor by more than 10%.  You can't increase firepower, but you CAN increase range if the tonnage is close...

and it can't go faster.

The challenge is to open a huge amount of tonnage, and then fill it without increasing speed, firepower, or protection.

It must come to the same tonnage.

Allowed:

Any system that does not increase damage directly, but instead supplements damage is allowed (aka you can install Artemis IV or swap for Streak SRMs, but you can't increase the number of tubes or the size of the missiles, you can swap standard A/C for Ultras, but you can't increase the ammo, or you can increase the ammo carried but you can't change the autocannon for something more advanced, you can't swap your Gauss rifle for a Heavy, and so on).

So, you can install ECM, you can install active probes, you can install command consoles or anything else you can find that isn't a weapon, armor, or increase your speed.

but you have to swap the engine for a lighter version.

good luck!
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

HeavyArmorMecha

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #1 on: 18 April 2022, 00:48:10 »
Behold: the Slayer eXTender!

Simply put, the eXTender is build upon a classic Slayer SL-15 design, yet using advance technologies available in 3058.

The original 320 rated Standard Fusion Engine is swapped for a 320 rated XL Fusion Engine. The 14.5 tons of Standard Aerospace armor is exchanged with 13 tons of Ferro-Aluminum armor, providing the exact same protection levels. The 20 Single Heat Sinks are replaced with 10 Double Heat Sinks, providing the same heat management but 10 tons lighter.

The original weapon suite of AC/10 and 6 Medium Lasers are untouched.

With the freed tonnage, here's what I've installed into the Slayer chassis:
1. A Command Console to coordinate multiple ASF flights
2. A 7-ton Communication Equipment module to vastly improve tactical communications and counter enemy jamming disruptions.
3. An Aero Refueling Drogue backed up by a huge 11.5 ton auxiliary fuel tank.

As you've guessed it, now the frontline fighter may triple-duty as a Tactical Command Craft and Aerial Tanker Craft.

Code: [Select]
Slayer SL-15XT

Mass: 80 tons
Frame: Unknown
Power Plant: 320 XL
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Armor: Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:
     6 Medium Laser
     1 AC/10
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3058
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-D
Cost: 11,944,053 C-bills

Type: Slayer
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 80
Battle Value: 1,306

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        320 XL               11.5
Safe Thrust: 6
Max Thrust: 9
Structural Integrity:         8                       
Heat Sinks:                   10 [20]                 0
Fuel:                         800                  10.0
Command Console                                       6
Armor Factor (Ferro)          232                    13

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                    84   
     Wings                 50/50   
     Aft                     48   


Weapons
and Ammo                                Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Medium Laser                              NOS       1.0      3      5    0    0    0 
AC/10                                     NOS       12.0     3     10   10    0    0 
2 Medium Laser                            RWG       2.0      3      5    0    0    0 
Liquid Storage (11.5 tons)                FSLG      11.5     -      -    -    -    - 
Communications Equipment (7 tons)         FSLG      7.0      -      -    -    -    - 
AC/10 Ammo (20)                           FSLG      2.0      -      -    -    -    - 
2 Medium Laser                            LWG       2.0      3      5    0    0    0 
Medium Laser                              AFT       1.0      3      5    0    0    0 
Refueling Drogue/Fluid Suction System     AFT       1.0      -      -    -    -    - 

Ruger

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #2 on: 18 April 2022, 10:15:09 »
Hmm. Take a standard LCF-R15 Lucifer. Exchange the fusion core for a light engine and drop four heat sinks and make the remaining 16 doubles. Switch all lasers to ER models. This should free up 6 tons. Give the LRM-20 an Artemis IV FCS. From there, give the design 5 more tons of fuel.

Edit: by a 10% increase in armor, do you mean 10% tonnage or points?

Ruger
« Last Edit: 18 April 2022, 17:14:13 by Ruger »
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

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CVB

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #3 on: 18 April 2022, 11:46:42 »
Are enlarged fuel tanks (which increase strategic speed) ok?
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #4 on: 18 April 2022, 18:23:18 »
XL engine on a Swift[/i] frees up quite a bit of mass: enough to get you a 5-ton fuel tank, double the armor, and, since we're not changing weaponry, enough mass left over for an ECM suite, Beagle probe and recon camera.  You can do the job of both the SWF-606 and SWF-606R better than either of them, and without compromise.

Code: [Select]
Swift SWF-607R

Mass: 25 tons
Frame: Unknown
Power Plant: 275 XL
Armor: Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:
     1 Small Laser
     1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3150
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 3,837,187 C-bills

Type: Swift
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 25
Battle Value: 494

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        275 XL                  8
Safe Thrust: 13
Max Thrust: 20
Structural Integrity:         13                       
Heat Sinks:                   10 [20]                 0
Fuel:                         400                   5.0
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          71                      4

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                    20   
     Wings                 20/20   
     Aft                     11   


Weapons
and Ammo              Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Medium Laser            NOS       1.0      3      5    0    0    0 
Active Probe            NOS       1.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Recon Camera            NOS       0.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Small Laser             NOS       0.5      1      3    0    0    0 
ECM Suite               FSLG      1.5      -      -    -    -    - 

"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Cannonshop

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #5 on: 18 April 2022, 19:41:02 »
Are enlarged fuel tanks (which increase strategic speed) ok?
yes.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

wolfgar

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #6 on: 18 April 2022, 19:58:26 »
can you change the TYPE of armor, (IE standard to ferro-) as well as increase the 10%?
Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

Daryk

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #7 on: 18 April 2022, 20:21:19 »
I'll definitely be submitting a Lucifer for this one...  Just not tonight.  It's only Monday, and I feel like I've worked a whole week!

Cannonshop

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #8 on: 18 April 2022, 20:42:59 »
can you change the TYPE of armor, (IE standard to ferro-) as well as increase the 10%?

The limitation is there for a reason.  that reason, is to stretch the creativity of fan-designers in finding new and exciting ways and roles without going to the standard "Tougher/faster/hits harder with bigger weapons".
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

wolfgar

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #9 on: 18 April 2022, 21:57:26 »
well with that as an answer, here is an attempt to stay within them. if i've failed to stay within the bounds, let me know and i'll change things

Code: (attempt) [Select]
Vulcan VLC-5XL

Mass: 80 tons
Frame: Unknown
Power Plant: 240 XL
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Armor: Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:
     2 Ultra AC/10
     1 Large Pulse Laser
     1 SRM 6
     2 Medium Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 10,372,320 C-bills

Type: Vulcan
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 80
Battle Value: 1,714

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        240 XL                  6
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity:         8                       
Heat Sinks:                   19 [38]                 9
Fuel:                         400                   5.0
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          232                    13

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                    75   
     Wings                 55/55   
     Aft                     47   


Weapons
and Ammo                Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Ultra AC/10               RWG       13.0     4     15   15    0    0 
Large Pulse Laser         NOS       7.0      10     9    9    0    0 
Medium Pulse Laser        NOS       2.0      4      6    0    0    0 
SRM 6                     NOS       3.0      4      8    0    0    0 
Ultra AC/10 Ammo (30)     FSLG      3.0      -      -    -    -    - 
SRM 6 Ammo (15)           FSLG      1.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Ultra AC/10               LWG       13.0     4     15   15    0    0 
Medium Pulse Laser        AFT       2.0      4      6    0    0    0 


Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #10 on: 19 April 2022, 14:33:06 »
Take a Corsair (CV-12).  Let's Pulse Boat this sucker!

Drop in a 200 LFE (save 2 tons), remove 3 heatsinks but turn the other 13 DHS to doubles (save 3 tons), turn the armor to 12.5 tons FF (save 1 ton, add 8 points of protection, or about 3%), remove the forward small lasers to keep the firepower equalish, then turn all six remaining lasers (two large in the nose, two medium in the wings, two smalls in the rear) into pulse models (7 tons).

In theory I could drop armor and/or heat sinks to keep the forward small lasers and turn them into pulses as well.  But not sure if the minor increase from going to pulse lasers (1 per medium and large) would violate the condition.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #11 on: 19 April 2022, 14:47:03 »
Shilone with 10 double heat sinks, giving it the same dissipation, an XL engine bumped up to 325 rating, giving it an improved 7/11 thrust profile, another 5 tons of fuel, an ECM suite, Beagle probe, TAG, recon camera, CASE and another 1.5 tons of armor, switched to ferro-aluminum.

Code: [Select]
Shilone SL-17K

Mass: 65 tons
Frame: Unknown
Power Plant: 325 XL
Armor: Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:
     1 LRM 20
     2 Medium Laser
     1 SRM 4
     1 TAG
     1 Large Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 2796
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-F(F*)-E-D
Cost: 10,332,328 C-bills

Type: Shilone
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 65
Battle Value: 1,619

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        325 XL                 12
Safe Thrust: 7
Max Thrust: 11
Structural Integrity:         6                       
Heat Sinks:                   10 [20]                 0
Fuel:                         800                  10.0
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          232                    13

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                    71   
     Wings                 55/55   
     Aft                     51   


Weapons
and Ammo              Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
TAG                     NOS       1.0      0      0    0    0    0 
LRM 20                  NOS       10.0     6     12   12   12    0 
Active Probe            NOS       1.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Recon Camera            NOS       0.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Large Laser             NOS       5.0      8      8    8    0    0 
Medium Laser            RWG       1.0      3      5    0    0    0 
CASE                    FSLG      0.5      -      -    -    -    - 
LRM 20 Ammo (12)        FSLG      2.0      -      -    -    -    - 
ECM Suite               FSLG      1.5      -      -    -    -    - 
SRM 4 Ammo (25)         FSLG      1.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Medium Laser            LWG       1.0      3      5    0    0    0 
SRM 4                   AFT       2.0      3      4    0    0    0 

"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Daryk

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #12 on: 19 April 2022, 20:45:12 »
Argh.. another day that feels like a week... maybe this weekend I'll have that Lucifer ready to post...  :P

Atarlost

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #13 on: 19 April 2022, 21:57:25 »
The limitation is there for a reason.  that reason, is to stretch the creativity of fan-designers in finding new and exciting ways and roles without going to the standard "Tougher/faster/hits harder with bigger weapons".

I don't think you ever actually answered Ruger's question.  You just said the limitation has a reason, not what it actually is. 
Edit: by a 10% increase in armor, do you mean 10% tonnage or points?

I will point out that a 10% increase in armor does not allow switching from standard armor to the same weight of FAA if you have more than 2.5 tons of armor to start with so if you want a hitpoint increase limit it should be higher. 

I don't think you've really issued the challenge you want to, though. If you want a properly viable ASF for a new and exciting role you probably need an armor/speed/firepower ratio different from a combat ASF.  You should be just asking for fighters or omni configurations to perform unusual roles.

Recon conversions seem promising initially, but they're not.  Everything's slow or fragile for the job except the Sternensturm, which has no need of an upgrade since it's an omnifighter with enough pod space to load in enough electronics and fuel for the recon role already.  I suspect that other nonstandard roles are also going to want to drop weapons for armor and/or speed. 


The other issue is that going from standard to light puts introtech fighters into an era when they have to compete with blank sheet XLFE designs not just other upgrades.  And they're lessons learned designs like the Dagger at that not the sort of crap the SLDF got stuck with between the Reunification War and Amaris Coup because they didn't have any real experience against peer opponents to inform their purchasing decisions. 

Because of the standard-light transition forcing introtech and low end Star League fighters to compete in the 3060s without either more guns, armor, or speed it's hard to come up with an upgrade other than "double the fuel load of a Morgenstern," though admittedly I don't know that era well apart from the Lyran/Feddie omnis that get held up as examples of how to design for advanced tech and there may be other candidates. 

Cannonshop

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #14 on: 19 April 2022, 22:34:45 »

I don't think you ever actually answered Ruger's question.  You just said the limitation has a reason, not what it actually is. 
I will point out that a 10% increase in armor does not allow switching from standard armor to the same weight of FAA if you have more than 2.5 tons of armor to start with so if you want a hitpoint increase limit it should be higher. 

I don't think you've really issued the challenge you want to, though. If you want a properly viable ASF for a new and exciting role you probably need an armor/speed/firepower ratio different from a combat ASF.  You should be just asking for fighters or omni configurations to perform unusual roles.

Recon conversions seem promising initially, but they're not.  Everything's slow or fragile for the job except the Sternensturm, which has no need of an upgrade since it's an omnifighter with enough pod space to load in enough electronics and fuel for the recon role already.  I suspect that other nonstandard roles are also going to want to drop weapons for armor and/or speed. 


The other issue is that going from standard to light puts introtech fighters into an era when they have to compete with blank sheet XLFE designs not just other upgrades.  And they're lessons learned designs like the Dagger at that not the sort of crap the SLDF got stuck with between the Reunification War and Amaris Coup because they didn't have any real experience against peer opponents to inform their purchasing decisions. 

Because of the standard-light transition forcing introtech and low end Star League fighters to compete in the 3060s without either more guns, armor, or speed it's hard to come up with an upgrade other than "double the fuel load of a Morgenstern," though admittedly I don't know that era well apart from the Lyran/Feddie omnis that get held up as examples of how to design for advanced tech and there may be other candidates.

Atarlost, the Difficulty is the point.  It's EASY to min/max with nutek.  Everyone is already doing that.  The idea is to go outside of traditional norms of what constitutes 'performance', both to see what other roles might work, and to see just how creatively players can fill that loose space if they can't simply pick an already existing performance metric, and maximize it The way pretty much everyone already does.

in conception, it's like the efforts on the boards in the early 2000's to break away from the "icebox pulseboat T/C minmaxing" that was going on with 'mechs, wherein basically everyone was building 100 tonners armed with nothing but pulse lasers and targeting computers with enough cooling to ignore two engine hits and an inferno while alpha-striking every turn.

What's the first thing most new players do when they sit down with Techmanual and start tweaking? they usually do an engine swap, and Double Heats.  This is usually done to increase speed, armor, and firepower, and if they started with a 3025 chassis, they can get  a lot of increase very quickly.

Why? because optimizing is pretty easy when you're only looking at speed, firepower and armor.  Everybody does it, and because everybody does it, the designs end up looking like each other pretty much all the time.

but what if you can't increase on those three axes?  what do you do then? is there something you can do with it, that can change the profile of the table-top fight or open options that you might have overlooked while you've been chasing the meta?

THAT is what this is about.  What can you do with it? what can you use it for? can you come up with something unusual?
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Atarlost

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #15 on: 21 April 2022, 18:04:47 »
but what if you can't increase on those three axes?  what do you do then? is there something you can do with it, that can change the profile of the table-top fight or open options that you might have overlooked while you've been chasing the meta?

THAT is what this is about.  What can you do with it? what can you use it for? can you come up with something unusual?

And you haven't received a single complete design that follows the challenge.  They all jump from standard to XLFE and Giovanni Blasini's entries increase armor and his Shilone also increases speed.  The closest you've gotten is the Slayer tanker, which wouldn't have a useful auxiliary fuel tank with the LFE the challenge actually dictates it must use.  This should tell you something about the challenge. 

If you want ASFs that don't max out armor/speed/firepower the challenge that will actually get you that is for is ASF that have at least x tons or y% of their mass invested in things that aren't armor/speed/firepower counting heatsinks and ammo as firepower. 

Daryk

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #16 on: 21 April 2022, 18:25:36 »
I just realized the problem.  Going to a "Light" engine is a later era than going from regular to XL.  That said, I'll see what I can do with a Lucifer R-20.  It has proper armor to begin with, and was designed to chase DropShips, so more fuel is the order of the day, with maybe an ECM suite to increase staying power.

Daryk

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #17 on: 21 April 2022, 19:04:40 »
I think I can dial back my "R21" version to the spirit, if not the letter, of this challenge.
Code: [Select]
                    Vessel Technical Readout

Class/Model/Name:  LCF-R22
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3054
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Custom design
Rules Set:         Tech Manual

Mass:              65 tons
Power Plant:       Edasich 195 Light Fusion
Safe Thrust:       5
Maximum Thrust:    8
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:         
    2 Maxell ER Large Lasers
    4 Maxell Small Lasers
    1 Maxell Medium Laser
    1 Clan ECM Suite
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Lucifer LCF-R21
Mass:              65 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  195 Light Fusion                                           6.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 6                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    15 Double                                           5.00
Fuel:                                                                   10.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (432 total armor pts)                            27.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                141
   Left/Right Wings:                 100/100
   Aft:                                  91

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Large Lasers          Nose        16     16     16     --   24     10.00
Clan ECM Suite             Nose        --     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Small Lasers             RW          15     --     --     --    5      1.00
2 Small Lasers             LW          15     --     --     --    5      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    3      1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                   Heat:  39     65.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

wolfgar

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  • Wolfson's Heavy Raiders: 3058-3092
Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #18 on: 21 April 2022, 19:19:42 »
uh, maybe i misread the challenge rules but i believe that going straight to an XL was allowed. Changing the armor type is allowed, you just can't improve it more than 10%, and that i based on standard armor points for my upgrade, and didn't even increase it 10%

but then again maybe i was wrong
Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

Ruger

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #19 on: 21 April 2022, 20:55:31 »
uh, maybe i misread the challenge rules but i believe that going straight to an XL was allowed. Changing the armor type is allowed, you just can't improve it more than 10%, and that i based on standard armor points for my upgrade, and didn't even increase it 10%

but then again maybe i was wrong

The way I read it, you had to drop the engine one step on the lightness scale (“standard to light, light to XL, XL to XXL”).

Which is why my design went from standard to Light engine, upped the lasers to ER’s, and just gave the LRM’s Artemis, and then dropped some heat sinks for double fuel tonnage.

Was considering a change of armor to ferro, with a possible drop of half a ton for a recon camera.

Hmm, yes, now I can see an alternate Lucifer-R20 upgrade. Let’s say all ER lasers, 16 double heat sinks, stealth-up the armor (20-23 tons of armor, ?, see below), add an Angel ECM suite, a Bloodhound Active Probe, give it a total of 10 tons of fuel, and two to three tons of communications equipment (thinking 2 tons to get the equivalent of three tons total, but not sure if this works?).

This would give us a heavily armored, decently armed, stealthy electronics warfare fighter.

Or am I just thinking crazy here?

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

Daryk

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #20 on: 22 April 2022, 03:09:59 »
See below? ???

Ruger

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #21 on: 22 April 2022, 05:34:40 »
See below? ???

The amount of armor depends on the amount of communications equipment needed/installed.

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

Daryk

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #22 on: 22 April 2022, 18:16:35 »
Ah, that's what I get for posting before I'm fully awake...  :P

DevianID

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #23 on: 03 May 2022, 01:10:25 »
Ok, so I was always a huge fan of the Corsair Marik Regulan variant ('Sand Hawk' for Kurita) which dropped a large laser for more armor and heat sinks.  With an XL engine and double heat sinks, I have 13 tons now.  I switch to Ferro armor for that 10% boost, but the tonnage stays the same there.  So looking at the equipment, I see refueling drogue and liquid storage.  I figure, it makes sense to have a stupidly armored fighter be the thing that carries fuel to be a combat zone refueling unit, and dropping the laser is less of an issue for the 'Sand Hawk' if its new job is to resupply some thirsty birds.

Corsair CSR-V12M 'Regulus'

Mass: 50 tons
Frame: Wangker II
Power Plant: GM 200
Armor: Wangker Corsair Standard
Armament:
     4 Small Laser
     2 Medium Laser
     1 Large Laser
Manufacturer: Field Refit
     Primary Factory: Field Refit
Communication System: Ranker 100B
Targeting & Tracking System: Ranker TA800
Introduction Year: 3050
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-D
Cost: 4,954,458 C-bills

Overview
The compact laser system and sleek design of the Corsair made it a superior aerospace fighter in an atmosphere, rivaling the capabilities of Conventional Fighters.

Capabilities
It was well protected by thirteen and a half tons of armor, while sixteen heat sinks kept the all-energy weapon loadout from overheating. It carried a fuel load of five tons and its GM 200 power plant could achieve a maximum thrust of four and a half gravities, with a safe thrust factor of three gravities.

Deployment
A House Marik design, it was introduced among the Regulan aerospace forces in an attempt to preserve their dwindling number of Corsairs. One of the large lasers was replaced for two more tons of armor and three additional heat sinks. While increasing the craft's survivability it is disliked by many for reducing the Corsair's firepower. Also known as the Sand Hawk to House Kurita military units.

History
The Corsair was originally introduced as a means to replace the horrific losses suffered by the Star League Defense Force following the end of the Amaris Civil War. A working prototype of the Corsair had already been produced when the SLDF approached Wangker Aerospace for an easy-to-refit Aerospace Fighter, which allowed them to begin full-scale production within months. Unfortunately the original V1 series had serious flaws: the fuel tank would rupture when the craft made turns operating in an atmosphere, the landing gear could not support its weight in an emergency landing, and the life support system in the cockpit was easily shattered. While such faults would have killed most other designs, the positive aspects of the Corsair were so impressive the Star League permitted its continuation while Wangker fixed the issues. The fuel tank problem would be corrected in the V2 series, while the life support issues were hashed out in the V3 through V8 series, with continuing improvements up to the V12 series. Most of Wangker's Corsair factories were located in the Federated Suns, and so when the Star League fell five years after its introduction House Davion managed to seize control of them, with the Free Worlds League capturing a single production line on Connaught. Within five years of the start of the First Succession War however all of these factories had been destroyed, though through salvage efforts Wangker managed to piece together a new line on Axton and keep it open over the centuries of constant raiding. When the Connaught facility was destroyed in the opening shots of the war only a few hundred had been produced for the FWLM, and these eventually fell into the hands of the Principality of Regulus. When the Federated Commonwealth was formed debate raged on whether the Corsair or the Lucifer should be the AFFC's standard medium fighter, and in mock combat trials the Corsair won more often than not.

Type: Corsair
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 50
Battle Value: 1,208

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        200 XL                4.5
   Safe Thrust: 6
   Max Thrust: 9
Structural Integrity:         6                       
Heat Sinks:                   10 [20]                 0
Fuel:                         560                   7.0
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          277                  15.5

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                    91   
     Wings                 61/61   
     Aft                     64   


Weapons
and Ammo                                Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Large Laser                               NOS       5.0      8      8    8    0    0 
2 Small Laser                             NOS       1.0      1      3    0    0    0 
Medium Laser                              RWG       1.0      3      5    0    0    0 
Refueling Drogue/Fluid Suction System     FSLG      1.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Medium Laser                              LWG       1.0      3      5    0    0    0 
Liquid Storage (10 tons)                  AFT       10.0     -      -    -    -    - 
2 Small Laser                             AFT       1.0      1      3    0    0    0 


Vehrec

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #24 on: 05 May 2022, 16:11:23 »
Instructions Unclear, I put an XL Engine in a Mechbuster, does that count?  Adding VSTOL gear, ECM, Beagle, an extra ton of ammo, a targeting computer, two tons of fuel for increased strategic/ferry range, and a remote drone console so it can use two old-fashioned conventional Mechbusters with drone-conversions as wingmen who will gladly die for the cause.  (I don't actually have IO, so someone who has it will have to tell me how that piece of drone-control console actually works.)

All for just seven times the price of a stock model.


Code: [Select]
Mechbuster-FX

Mass: 50 tons
Frame: Unknown
Power Plant: 250 XL
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 AC/20
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 5,340,292 C-bills

Type: Mechbuster-FX
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 50
Battle Value: 570

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        250 XL                 10
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity:         0                       
Heat Sinks:                   0                       0
Fuel:                         720                   4.5
Cockpit                                               5
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                    16   
     Wings                 12/12   
     Aft                     8     


Weapons
and Ammo                       Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
AC/20                            NOS       14.0     7     20    0    0    0 
Remote Drone Command Console     NOS       2.0      -      -    -    -    - 
AC/20 Ammo (10)                  FSLG      2.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Targeting Computer               FSLG      4.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Active Probe                     AFT       1.5      -      -    -    -    - 
ECM Suite                        AFT       1.5      -      -    -    -    - 


*Insert support for fashionable faction of the week here*

DOC_Agren

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Re: Another weird idea challenge.
« Reply #25 on: 05 May 2022, 19:01:52 »
i don't know to  :clap: or run in horror..

"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

 

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