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Author Topic: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]  (Read 713 times)

Retry

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Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions

The 75 kT Whittle-class, the 160 kT Sloop-class, and the 460 kT Starlifter-class Jumpships are vital parts to the Crossroad Republic's civillian Whittle Networks.  By extension, the infrastructure required to produce and maintain ships of those three classes are also common and widely available within Crossroad Republic space.  This potential is not lost on the Crossroad Republic's naval military planners, who commissioned Warship designs that leveraged existing infrastracture and whose production could be ramped up in a pinch, intended to operate in a mainly defensive capacity near Crossroadian space.

Strictly speaking, these Jumpship Combat Conversions are not conversions of existing Jumpships into a Warship.  Instead, they use existing industrial infrastructure to create new, Warship-grade hulls out of the original Jumpship design.  Though intrinsically more expensive than standard Jumpships, these conversions have a massive advantage in that the existing civillian infrastructure can be rapidly converted to military warship production much more quickly than it would take to create new purpose-built military drydocks from scratch; consequently, these light warships tend to quickly make up a large proportion of the Republic's fleets in times of war.

Before we continue, it's best to manage expectations at this point.  Despite the incorporation of advanced technology and various upgrades made to these ships since the Jumpship Combat Conversion program began in 3006, these vessels are, with one possible exception,  unsuitable for directly brawling other Warships on the front line.  The Alligator-class Torpedo Corvette, the Kingfisher-class Assault Carrier, and the Hornet-class Destroyer fill specific niches, and don't operate well outside them.  Considering the limited tonnage the vessels have to work with in order to be produced in civillian-grade drydocks, this is quite unsurprising.  Nonetheless, the ships are invaluable in that they can accomplish light tasks and help tie up the assets of invading state actors, while the rest of the Republic's conventional standing navy can be free to be allocated to whichever tasks are highest priority.

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Alligator Torpedo Corvette (3145)
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Mixed (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 46,581
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-F
Cost: 5,662,818,000 C-bills
Fuel: 1,000 tons (10,000)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 900 (1800)
Structural Integrity: 30
Armor
     Nose: 17
     Fore Sides: 14/14
     Aft Sides: 12/12
     Aft: 9
Cargo
Bay 1: ARTS Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Cargo (1.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 3: ARTS Small Craft (2) 2 Doors
Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (250 m, 250 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 20
Crew: 20 officers, 51 enlisted/non-rated, 36 gunners, 10 bay personnel, 6 BA marines
Ammunition: 40 rounds of Kraken (Tele-Operated) ammunition (4,000 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small) and 60 tons of standard aerospace armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (584 Heat)
4 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T), Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (40 shots) 200 40(400) 40(400) 40(400) 40(400) Tele-Operated Capital Missile
16 Sub-Capital Laser /1 384 16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 0(0) Sub-Capital Laser
FRS/FLS (140 Heat)
12 Laser AMS 60 4(36) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
8 Large Pulse Laser 80 8(80) 8(80) 8(80) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (200 Heat)
20 Large Pulse Laser 200 20(200) 20(200) 20(200) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (140 Heat)
12 Laser AMS 60 4(36) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
8 Large Pulse Laser 80 8(80) 8(80) 8(80) 0(0) Pulse Laser
Aft (200 Heat)
20 Large Pulse Laser 200 20(200) 20(200) 20(200) 0(0) Pulse Laser

The Alligator-class Torpedo Boat is commonly nicknamed the "One Hit Wonder" in Crossroadian military circles, named after the number of direct hits they're expected to take in a pitched fight.  Based on an upsized Whittle Jumpship frame and equipped with a compact core, these ships can be produced in the most common Crossroadian 100 kT capacity drydocks.

RAF Alligators are little more than high-tech commerce raiders.  Their signature feature is their four tubes of Tele-operated missiles, which with well-trained crew are capable of engaging and destroying Jumpship traffic at vast distances.  An advanced naval comms suite and powerful sublight engines aid in this role: Alligators are usually able to detect and avoid enemy Warships, engage shipping, and safely run away from most warships.  If that fails, the Alligator can only rely on a squadron of AI fighter craft (a relatively new development, resulting from a mixture of captured WoB technology and original research) and a few laser batteries, only suitable for dissuading pocket warships and small fighter groups.  Expected lifespan in close quarters combat against proper Warships is measured in seconds.

While a lithium-fusion battery and even more powerful advanced naval comms would both be exceptionally useful for its shipping killer role, both items are earmarked for Crossroadian Capital Ships.  Alligator captains necessarily need to get creative to successfully pull off anti-shipping missions, though in practice the mere threat of Alligator raids is often sufficient to tie down significant numbers of hostile Aerospace assets.

Its main secondary role is light Dropship transportion due to its 2 Dropship Collars it retains from the original Whittle-class Jumpship.  They're occasionally used in pitched fleet actions as well in pitched battles as ad-hoc torpedo boats, with several ships firing volleys of Kraken-T's far behind the front lines in the hopes that they can impair something important, or even destroy them outright.  Their high speed helps them cope somewhat, though it's reported that Alligator crew far prefer the relative quiet of a Jumpship hunt to these fights.

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Kingfisher Assault Carrier (3145)
Mass: 160,000 tons
Technology Base: Mixed (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 160,000
Battle Value: 50,156
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-F
Cost: 9,941,672,000 C-bills
Fuel: 2,500 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 5
Heat Sinks: 800 (1600)
Structural Integrity: 50
Armor
     Nose: 51
     Fore Sides: 43/43
     Aft Sides: 38/38
     Aft: 25
Cargo
Bay 1: ARTS Fighter (72) 6 Doors
Bay 2: ARTS Small Craft (8) 2 Doors
Bay 3: Cargo (8357.5 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (250 m, 250 m)
Escape Pods: 60
Life Boats: 0
Crew: 50 officers, 173 enlisted/non-rated, 70 gunners, 40 bay personnel, 24 BA marines
Ammunition: 240 rounds of Piranha ammunition (2,400 tons), 160 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (4,800 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG), 1 Satellite Imager (Hyperspectral Imager), 3 Field Kitchen, 1 Satellite Imager (High-Resolution Imager), 1 Satellite Imager (Look-Down Radar), 1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large), 23 MASH Equipment (1 theater), 1 Satellite Imager (Infrared Imager), and 160 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (480 Heat)
20 Sub-Capital Laser /1 480 20(200) 20(200) 20(200) 0(0) Sub-Capital Laser
FRS/FLS (140 Heat)
12 Laser AMS 60 4(36) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
8 Large Pulse Laser 80 8(80) 8(80) 8(80) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (188 Heat)
8 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda), Barracuda Ammo (80 shots) 80 16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160) Capital Missile
12 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha), Piranha Ammo (120 shots) 108 36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 0(0) Sub-Capital Missile
ARS/ALS (140 Heat)
12 Laser AMS 60 4(36) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
8 Large Pulse Laser 80 8(80) 8(80) 8(80) 0(0) Pulse Laser
Aft (200 Heat)
20 Large Pulse Laser 200 20(200) 20(200) 20(200) 0(0) Pulse Laser

RNS Kingfishers are the smallest Warship-based carriers in the Crossroadian fleet, and also the most common thanks to being easily produced in the same yards as the Sloop-class Jumpship.  Their primary role is enabling planetary assaults to accomplish key objectives, especially ones that may not necessarily justify deploying a Capital-sized carrier or even an entire fleet.

Kingfishers are equipped with 4 Dropship collars, same as the Sloop-class Jumpship they're based on.  These dropships are generally semi-permanently assigned to the ship, and usually consist of 3 Dropships optimized for planetary assault and a fourth Cargo ship to carry additional supplies.  Many amenities equipped on the Kingfisher aid in its planetary assault role and enable independent operation for long periods of time, including but not limited to: Deep-space sensors, planetary scanners & sensors, an HPG to coordinate with friendly fleets, a sub-capital laser array capable of performing basic planetary artillery support for landed troops & enough rear-facing thrusters to maintain this position, a wing of fighter craft, an expanded medical bay, and a small ship-board food court.

In order to fit all this equipment on the smaller Sloop frame, the Kingfisher ended up with a slower sublight engine.  Though better armored and armed than an Alligator, Kingfishers are still vulnerable to Destroyer-sized warships and larger when unescorted.  Their primary survival method while acting independently is to avoid being found by enemy Warships in the first place: their naval sensors has 3x the effective range of normal warships, allowing them to detect incoming bogeys far in advance, wrap up planetary operations, and fall back before finding themselves identified by ship-based sensors.

The Kingfisher's armament, fighter capacity, and large number of docking collars (for their size) makes them potentially useful in fleet engagements.  In this role, the Kingfisher usually carries 3 pocket warships instead of planetary assault dropships, and its cargo dropship usually carries extra anti-ship missile ammunition for the fighter craft.  In this role, the Kingfisher's fighter complement generally launches a barrage of anti-ship missiles at one Warship in a bid to overwhelm the point-defense and land a crippling blow, and then transition to securing fighter superiority.

*Note: The Kingfisher's ARTS bays are typically (though not always) loaded with manned fighter craft, unlike the Alligator & Hornet ships.  The main reason ARTS fighter bays are used here is to reduce the number of crew needed to operate the vessel by automating most basic bay jobs like launching, recovery, rearming & basic repairs.

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Hornet Destroyer (3145)
Mass: 460,000 tons
Technology Base: Mixed (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 460,000
Battle Value: 116,748
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-F
Cost: 8,078,076,000 C-bills
Fuel: 3,000 tons (7,500)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 11
Heat Sinks: 2500 (5000)
Structural Integrity: 60
Armor
     Nose: 142
     Fore Sides: 121/121
     Aft Sides: 101/101
     Aft: 57
Cargo
Bay 1: ARTS Small Craft (4) 2 Doors
Bay 2: ARTS Fighter (18) 9 Doors
Bay 3: Cargo (11836.0 tons) 2 Doors
Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (250 m, 250 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 60
Crew: 60 officers, 89 enlisted/non-rated, 114 gunners, 20 bay personnel, 24 BA marines
Ammunition: 120 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (6,000 tons), 120 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (3,600 tons), 120 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (4,800 tons), 340 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (3,400 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large) and 552 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (2,040 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy) 900 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy) 900 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) Capital PPC
12 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (120 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (120 shots), AR10 White Shark Ammo (120 shots) 240 24(240) 24(240) 24(240) 24(240) AR10
FRS/FLS (140 Heat)
12 Laser AMS 60 4(36) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
4 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (50 shots) 40 60(600) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
4 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots) 40 60(600) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
RBS/LBS (640 Heat)
20 Sub-Capital Laser /3 640 60(600) 60(600) 0(0) 0(0) Sub-Capital Laser
ARS/ALS (140 Heat)
12 Laser AMS 60 4(36) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
4 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots) 40 60(600) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
4 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots) 40 60(600) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
Aft (700 Heat)
70 Large Pulse Laser 700 70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 0(0) Pulse Laser

The Hornet-class fast destroyer is the most conventional of the converted jumpships, and is in use with both the RAF and the Crossroadian Navy.  Based off the Starlifter-class Jumpship, the Hornet scraps most of the Dropship collars, making the Hornet's K-F drive relatively simple, cheap, and easier to mass produce compared some other K-F drive warships in the Crossroadian fleet.  Hornets are primarily used in an escort role for Capital ships.

Front-mounted Naval PPCs and AR-10 missile launchers provide reasonable firepower, flexible firepower against warships and pocket warships, with the AR-10s also able to fire Barracudas at enemy fighter craft in a pinch.  Screen launchers carry obscurant which helps which aids survivability of both the Hornet and the ship it escorts, and an experimental "smart bomblet" ammunition option further enables the launchers to act essentially like short-ranged anti-fighter flak.  A squadron of AI fighters provides an additional layer of protection.  Side-mounted sub-capital lasers round out the defense.

The well-rounded nature of the Hornet enables the design to feel at home in both the swift raiding groups of the RAF and the heavy fleet-in-beings of the Republican Navy.  The design also sees some success on the export market, with some Hornet variants produced and shipped to the nearby neighbor Mechani Alliance.  As demand for new Starlifters is not terribly high most of the time, Hornets are frequently manufactured using those drydocks in peacetime, which is slowly resulting in the Hornet to become the most produced Warship in the Crossroadian fleet.

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Wasp Light Carrier (3145)
Mass: 460,000 tons
Technology Base: Mixed (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 460,000
Battle Value: 62,010
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-F
Cost: 16,321,788,000 C-bills
Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 11
Heat Sinks: 1400 (2800)
Structural Integrity: 40
Armor
     Nose: 94
     Fore Sides: 77/77
     Aft Sides: 68/68
     Aft: 44
Cargo
Bay 1:   ARTS Fighter (144)   9 Doors
Bay 2:   ARTS Small Craft (12)   2 Doors
Bay 3:   Cargo (6844.5 tons)   2 Doors
Dropship Capacity: 10
Grav Decks: 4 (250 m, 250 m, 250 m, 250 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 100
Crew: 100 officers, 293 enlisted/non-rated, 112 gunners, 60 bay personnel, 24 BA marines
Ammunition: 160 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (1,600 tons), 320 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (9,600 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG), 1 Satellite Imager (Hyperspectral Imager), 3 Field Kitchen, 1 Satellite Imager (High-Resolution Imager), 1 Satellite Imager (Look-Down Radar), 1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large), 45 MASH Equipment (1 theater), 1 Satellite Imager (Infrared Imager), and 368 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons:      Capital Attack Values (Standard)   
Arc (Heat)   Heat   SRV   MRV   LRV   ERV   Class
Nose (500 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55   340   22(220)   22(220)   22(220)   22(220)   Capital Laser
16 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda), Barracuda Ammo (160 shots)   160   32(320)   32(320)   32(320)   32(320)   Capital Missile
FRS/FLS (140 Heat)
4 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots)   40   60(600)   0(0)   0(0)   0(0)   Screen Launcher
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda), Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)   Capital Missile
12 Laser AMS   60   4(36)   0(0)   0(0)   0(0)   AMS
RBS/LBS (480 Heat)
20 Sub-Capital Laser /1   480   20(200)   20(200)   20(200)   0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
ARS/ALS (140 Heat)
4 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots)   40   60(600)   0(0)   0(0)   0(0)   Screen Launcher
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda), Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)   Capital Missile
12 Laser AMS   60   4(36)   0(0)   0(0)   0(0)   AMS
Aft (480 Heat)
20 Sub-Capital Laser /1   480   20(200)   20(200)   20(200)   0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
The Wasp-class is the carrier conversion of the Starlifter, and unlike the Hornet-class Destroyer it retains its dropship collars.  It competes with the Hornet for shipyard space due to its size class requiring large civillian-grade bays to construct.  The design is used primarily by the RAF, but is also increasingly used by the Navy in similar a similar role to the Kingfisher.

The Wasp-class is in many ways a more capable Kingfisher.  The Wasp-class, nearly three times heavier than the Kingfisher-class, sports twice the fighter capacity, 2.5 times the Dropship capacity, more armor, a significantly more powerful sublight engine, an enhanced defense array filled with a mix of sub-capital lasers for anti-Dropship and anti-fighter duty, a quad Naval Laser turret to dissuade capital ships from getting too close, Barracuda capital missiles for anti-fighter support, screen launchers, and plenty of support equipment.

Despite the upgrades, the Wasp-class is only slightly more capable of directly defending itself from other ships; much of the extra weight gained from the nearly three-fold heavier chassis is eaten up by the markedly more powerful sublight engines.  However, as Crossroadian doctrine calls for Wasps and similar vessels avoiding entering guns distance against hostile warships at all costs, this is not considered to be a major disadvantage for the class, and in fact is markedly more survivable specifically due to its improved engines.  As such, even the Navy began to use the design despite their rivalry with the RAF in planetary assault roles, due to their greater survivability in high-risk environments.

While lighter than capital-grade warships produced in the Republic's military-grade shipyards, the Wasp-class is relatively uncommon among destroyer-size ships due to sharing the same shipyards as the Hornet-class destroyer; The much simpler K-F Drive of the Hornet requires half the time to build as the Wasp, so Hornets are usually built instead to escort larger Capital-grade carrier warships produced in large military-sized shipyards.  Nonetheless, Wasps have gained a reputation of being an effective and competent light carrier, and prove to be effective complements to any fleets that can get their hands on some.
« Last Edit: 03 December 2022, 18:02:39 by Retry »

Lagrange

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Re: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]
« Reply #1 on: 28 November 2022, 10:52:45 »
These are interesting, but there are two things which give me a 'maybe not' in case you are interested.

The first is the extremely prohibitive cost of small warships.  If you are ignoring price in favor of narrative that's fine.  But if you aren't ignoring price, it's hard to justify something smaller than ~500k tons on an amortized basis except perhaps as Q-ships.

The second is the reliance on missiles. Given the default efficiency of antimissile systems whether or not missiles work tends to be very binary---you either overwhelm the AMS and missiles work great, or you do not and they do not work at all. 

Retry

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Re: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]
« Reply #2 on: 28 November 2022, 21:03:40 »
The in-universe explanation is that these ships are small enough to be produced at regular Jumpship (or in the case of the Alligator, even Dropship-sized) shipyards, the larger Capital-grade military shipyards will undoubtedly be at capacity so in the case of theoretical invasion the choice is not "500k+ sized vessels or small boats", but "500k+ sized vessels & small boats or succumb to the Horde."

While I don't totally ignore cost (else I'd put the max number of Docking Collars on everything) ... Basically, while it's under consideration, it's not taken too literally; "Fasanomics" became a well-known term in this community for a reason.

That Warship costs increase so little with increasing size is one of those reasons.  I think I sat down once and concluded that, if going by strict interpretation of C-Bills, the most cost-effective fleet would effectively be 1,000,000+ ton Warships (preferably closer to the 2,500,000 mark), mixed between 0-drop-collar Warships as "expendable" pure combat platforms and far more expensive 50-drop-collar Warships to bring the troops.

Sure it's the most cost-effective (and incidentally the most munchy too), but the flavor is just terrible!  It also unfortunately just so happens to be more or less directly at odds with their intended naval doctrine.  Since I don't want all the Vela Corridor nations to have super top-heavy fleets (the other two major factions in the region already have that), narratively it's just easier for me to shrug and say "well because of manufacturing advancements and automation and economies of scale blah blah blah they're actually cheaper than the sticker price." than to change their entire naval order of battle and miss out on opportunities to leverage IMO interesting ships like these.

You're right that missiles are very hit or miss, though I don't think it's a huge issue in the case of the Alligator (whose main targets are canon Jumpships, which usually have terrible PD) or the Kingfisher (intended targets are attacking ASF, which rarely have much PD even on custom designs).  The PD rules feels broken to me; you spend a trivial sum to become immune to missiles, and are somehow totally un-saturate able with a bit over a baker's dozen of AMS... Somehow?

Your thread's discussion on Warship Balancing does a lot to make missiles not useless against heavy PD.  I'd like a more in-depth Point Defense game where you have to dedicate some actual tonnage to get good PD protection, possibly involving making certain weapons dual-purpose to even cover other ships from missile attack (ex: anti-missile mode for NLs, or some sort of explosive or weird frag thing for NACs.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm kind of designing these ships for an environment that I wish existed rather than the one that actually exists, because if I did the latter I'd probably just end up with a 2.5 million ton flavourless ball of doom, and that's no fun to design or post.

Lagrange

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Re: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]
« Reply #3 on: 28 November 2022, 22:34:49 »
W.r.t. optimal warship, I think 50 drop collars is not the right answer, because it's an excessive waste of force---you just don't need that many dropships to attack most planetary systems.

W.r.t. wartime options, the Yi Bai is a fun bargain-basement "warship".  100 Barracudas, 40 smallcraft bays, and 40kt cargo for about 100M c-bills.  Also, since it's nominally a station you don't need a yard to construct it.  For the cost of a low-end warship you can make the horde eat 4000 Barracudas per minute for 10 minutes.   

Retry

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Re: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]
« Reply #4 on: 29 November 2022, 20:57:05 »
Excessive for a backwater world, sure.  A Jumpship escorted by a 0-core Battleship might be better if that's the target.  You do need the high quantity for well-developed worlds though, such as Inner Sphere core worlds, capitals, or even Terra.  Having excessive capacity for landing seems fine since it also effectively forces the OPFOR to devote more forces to defense of important worlds (since the 50 docking collars already makes them a major threat before considering that the vessel still has Leviathan-grade armor and firepower that can punch straight through light defenses)- and with those forces tied over there, you make your own job easier.

But again, the flavour sucks and the 2.5 million ton warships are boring even if objectively cost effective due to fasanomics, so I ignore them, more or less.

Lagrange

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Re: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]
« Reply #5 on: 30 November 2022, 07:17:15 »
I'm not doubting the boring, but I am somewhat doubting the optimality, at least with the default ruleset.

The problem is the super-powered ASF and the door limit on large craft.  Given the door limit, you don't want your carriers to be to large.  Given the primacy of ASF, you want your warships to be fast---at least 5/8 and maybe faster so they have a hope of avoiding at least the heaviest ASF.   Everything else, including the Leviathan, is just waiting for an ASF swarm to finish it off.

Retry

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Re: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]
« Reply #6 on: 30 November 2022, 19:57:49 »
Right, well, assuming ASF is king, you'd probably not want the 0-collar Warship in that circumstance, but the max-collar Warship would still be optimal, as that's ultimately the cheapest way to maximize the number of ASF & Doors (while being self jump-capable).

2.5 MTon Warship: 60 Billion, 50 collars, 33 Doors, however many ASF you want + useful Auxiliary features (HPGs & Naval Comms are musts if you can get them IMO.

+ 50 Dropships, Anywhere from 1.5 billion to about 150 million each depending on desired fighter complement, speed, size, armor, etc, 8-9 doors each.

Yields anywhere from 433 to 483 doors, at a cost of anywhere from under 70 billion C-Bills (if you just need fast deployment out of your carrier dropships but not necessarily super deep reserves) or something like 130 billion (if you want to blot out the sun).  The only way to get cheaper per-door costs are something like 500kT bare Jumpships with the same Dropships, but they're also far more flimsy, unable to disengage from a lost fight, can't carry much extra armament or even just storage to rearm/refuel fighters,

Lagrange

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Re: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]
« Reply #7 on: 02 December 2022, 00:00:21 »
5/8 is the minimum speed if large craft are playing with ASF since it allows keeping distance from 5/8 ASFs and plausibly 6/9s as overtake is low enough that they can typically avoid being targeted before the ASF hit fuel limits.  7/11 and 8/12 fighters can't really overtake since they take structural damage.   That means attackers with the sufficient speed are light ASF and 7/11+ smallcraft or large craft. 

It looks like a 100k ton dropship that moves 5/8 with good armor is ~2B and the dropcollar is ~1B, so the 9 doors cost ~3B or 333M/door. 

That's slightly better than a 0-collar 2.5M ton warship with 33 doors (450M/door) which is slightly better than a 500k ton warship with 13 doors (460M/door).  The warship does appear to win over the dropship+collar in terms of carrying capacity/door by a factor 2.5 or so.

The cost of an LF-battery warship collar + dropship seems to be ~500M/dropship door making the zero-collar approach superior in all measurements.

So, you're right, but the cost/door appears similar enough that difficult-to-quantify elements like the subdivisibility of a force and double-jump capability may change the calculus of what's "best".

Retry

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Re: 3145 Crossroad Jumpship Combat Conversions [AU:Vela Corridor]
« Reply #8 on: 03 December 2022, 18:12:41 »
Added the Wasp-class carrier to the roster, a light carrier based on the Starlifter platform suitable for faster battlegroups.

 

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