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Author Topic: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?  (Read 2625 times)

Korzon77

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My AU has the Union really focused on protomechs and BA for initial landings into highly defended areas.  So, if you were designing a 200 ton small craft for inserting BA and proto's into highly contested Landing Zones and airspace, how would you go about it?

serack

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #1 on: 09 March 2013, 12:11:38 »
maybe something like this :)

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  New Conventional Fighter
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3060
Vessel Type:       Spheroid Small Craft
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              100 tons
Length:            18 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:         
    4 Medium Laser
    2 Small Laser
Manufacturer:   various
  Location:     various
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  New Conventional Fighter
Mass:              100 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                           19.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Structural Integrity: 9                                                  2.00
Total Heat Sinks:    14 Single                                           3.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                      10.50
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                  1.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Armor Type:  Standard  (212 total armor pts)                            11.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 60
   Left/Right Sides:                  53/53
   Aft:                                  46

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Battle Armor Points/Squads (1) with 1 door                   10.00
   Bay 2:  Battle Armor Points/Squads (6) (1) with 1 door               10.00


Crew and Passengers:
      3 Crew (3 minimum)                                                21.00
      1 Gunners (1 minimum)                                              7.00
      6 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             RW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             LW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Small Laser              RW(A)        3     --     --     --    1       .50
1 Small Laser              LW(A)        3     --     --     --    1       .50
1 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    3      1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 14    100.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        5,890,620 C-Bills
Battle Value:      680
Cost per BV:       8,662.68
Weapon Value:      1,145 (Ratio = 1.68)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 24;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,192
                   (221 Structure, 695 Life Support, 276 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 3,152  (264% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 3,  Armor/Structure: 5 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 1/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DH;  Point Value: 7

Atlan

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #2 on: 13 March 2013, 03:39:28 »
How about this:

Quote
Class/Model/Name:  Spawn
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Spheroid Small Craft
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              200 tons
Length:            23 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    5 Medium Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Spawn
Mass:              200 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                           52.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 12                                                 5.00
Total Heat Sinks:    9 Double                                             .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                       1.50
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                  1.50
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (13 days supply)                                           .25
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (819 total armor pts)                      43.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                236
   Left/Right Sides:                 204/204
   Aft:                                 175


Crew and Passengers:
      1 Officers (0 minimum)                                            10.00
      2 Crew (2 minimum)                                                14.00
      1 Gunners (1 minimum)                                              7.00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --    3      1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 15    139.25
Tons Left:                                                              60.75

43 tons of armor, to give it some survivability in forcing its way into the atmosphere, and 5 medium lasers in the nose to give anything in its way a headache.
It moves at 4/6, which is faster than most heavy aerofighters, and has the armor to survive the lighter ones.

In short, its a cheap, simple way of getting a small unit of protomechs onto a planet, with maximum survivability.


Now, there are 60 unused tons, because the Heavymetal Aero rules don't allow for Protomechs being set in small craft, but thats what that space is there for- 6 protomechs. (Note: rules give 50 tons for a 5 protomech point, but I figure that if Comstar is sponsoring this, there's going to be 6-unit formations. Failing that, it's a 40 tons for 4 protomechs, and 20 tons for ammo)

maxcarrion

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #3 on: 13 March 2013, 07:05:33 »
For me, the small craft only needs an appropriate bay, it would barely break atmo, then the BA would all jump out and use jump jets for effectively a HALO insertion.  Personally I’d use an Aerodyne for superior manoeuvres in the air, fit quad ERMLs Nose and Tail for protection but generally the drop craft just stays too high for much engagement from the ground and skidaddles before ASF can respond.  Because of the aerodyne design there’s also the option of flying it terrain following and doing a LALO drop before either sneaking out or going ballistic.

I won’t actually post a design as the actual craft isn’t that important.

sillybrit

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #4 on: 13 March 2013, 11:13:52 »
How about this:

                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                               * CUSTOM WEAPONS

Class/Model/Name:  New Aerodyne Small Craft
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Aerodyne Small Craft
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              200 tons
Length:            31 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       5
Maximum Thrust:    8
Armor Type:        *Heavy Ferro_Aluminum*
Armament:         
    2 MML 3*
    4 ER Medium Laser
    1 Guardian ECM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  New Aerodyne Small Craft
Mass:              200 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                           65.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 8                                                  8.00
Total Heat Sinks:    7 Double                                            6.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                       5.50
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                  1.50
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Armor Type:  *Heavy Ferro_Aluminum*  (418 total armor pts)              19.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                141
   Left/Right Wings:                  93/93
   Aft:                                  91

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  ProtoMech Point (5+1) (1) with 1 door                        50.00
           Battle Armor Compartment (3) with 1 door                     12.00
           Cargo (1)                                                     2.00


Crew and Passengers:
      1 Officers (0 minimum)                                             5.00
      2 Crew (2 minimum)                                                10.00
      1 Gunners (2 minimum)                                              5.00
      6 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 MML 3*                   Nose         2      2      2     --    2      1.50
  Ammo (MML 3) 40          ---                                           1.00
2 ER Medium Laser          Nose         5      5     --     --   10      2.00
1 MML 3*                   Aft          2      2      2     --    2      1.50
  Ammo (MML 3) 40          ---                                           1.00
2 ER Medium Laser          Aft          5      5     --     --   10      2.00
1 Guardian ECM             Aft         --     --     --     --    0      1.50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 24    200.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        16,462,600 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,309
Cost per BV:       12,576.47
Weapon Value:      2,248 (Ratio = 1.72)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 13;  MRV = 10;  LRV = 1;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 2,327
                   (835 Structure, 1,150 Life Support, 342 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 5,289  (227% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 5,  Armor/Structure: 10 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 1/1/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DS;  Point Value: 13
                   Specials: ecm


- Because we want to carry ProtoMechs we have to go for a Small Craft. Spheroids have their advantages, but I decided aerodyne for this version.
- It's 5/8, so it matches the thrust of the typical canon heavy ASF
- The armor can prevent thresholds by Gauss Rifles on the nose and standard PPCs on the wings and aft. There are heavier weapons, but you have to pump a lot more tonnage into armor to stop them thresholding, especially if you want all-round coverage.
- The Guardian ECM adds to the built-in ECM all military Small Craft get, increasing its effectiveness against enemy fighters and Small Craft. This will apply a +2 hit penalty against all enemy small craft attacks unless countered by ECCM/Active Probes, and it can stack with other friendly ECM up to +4.
- Only six offensive weapons so that only a single gunner is required (despite HMA's whining, the Guardian ECM doesn't require a gunner). The armament doesn't have to be heavy, just enough to make the enemy pause or to force a lucky lawndart roll. The latter is the point of the MMLs, they provide a lightweight long-range reach; if you're allowing special munitions as a house rule, you could instead load them up with smoke, inferno, etc to prep the LZ on approach.
- Only enough HS to fire fore or aft. You could mix & match, with lasers one direction & MMLs the other. Again, this isn't a combat vessel, it doesn't need to focus on hurting foes.
- Variants could drop the ProtoMech Bay to add more battle armor, convert the battle armor compartments to bays &/or add more fuel, weaponry, armor, DHS, etc.
- Barring variants, the design is intended for short-range usage only, so no need for large fuel tanks and we can use battle armor compartments instead of bays.

On the question of variants, if designing a pure BA transport, I'd stick most of the 50t saved from dropping the ProtoMech bay into the engine. You could get it up to 8/12 and still have mass to spare, allowing a total of 5 battle armor compartments, or 7/11 and a total of 8 compartments. With those thrusts, you really could outrun many canon fighter types.

CloaknDagger

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #5 on: 13 March 2013, 19:48:56 »
My AU has the Union really focused on protomechs and BA for initial landings into highly defended areas.  So, if you were designing a 200 ton small craft for inserting BA and proto's into highly contested Landing Zones and airspace, how would you go about it?

You said the Union. Does that mean it can be a dropship instead? 200 tons seems a bit low.

Here's what I get:

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name:  Mars
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Aerodyne DropShip
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              35,000 tons
Length:            338 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       2
Maximum Thrust:    3
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
   20 Laser AMS
  152 ER PPC
  180 Arrow IV System
  100 AMS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Mars
Mass:              35,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                        4,550.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 2
      Maximum Thrust: 3
Structural Integrity: 55                                             9,625.00
Total Heat Sinks:    2,410 Double                                    2,183.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                     969.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                263.00
Fire Control Computers:                                              5,505.00
Food & Water:  (27 days supply)                                        498.50
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (1,883 total armor pts)                   247.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                630
   Left/Right Wings:                 470/470
   Aft:                                 313

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Small Craft (2) with 1 door                                 400.00
   Bay 2:  Protomech Bay (130+6) (26) with 1 door                    1,300.00
   Bay 3:  Fighters (2) with 1 door                                    300.00


Crew and Passengers:
     20 Officers (17 minimum)                                          200.00
      5 Crew (0 minimum)                                                35.00
     80 Gunners (76 minimum)                                           560.00
  3,550 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Laser AMS               Nose        --     --     --     --  240     30.00
19 ER PPC                  Nose   19(190)19(190)19(190)     --  285    133.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 Arrow IV System(2000 rouNose   40(400)40(400)40(400)40(400)  200    700.00
20 AMS(1008 rounds)        L/RW        --     --     --     --   40    188.00
19 ER PPC                  L/RW   19(190)19(190)19(190)     --  570    266.00
19 ER PPC                  L/RW   19(190)19(190)19(190)     --  570    266.00
20 AMS(1008 rounds)        L/RW(A)     --     --     --     --   40    188.00
19 ER PPC                  L/RW(A)19(190)19(190)19(190)     --  570    266.00
20 AMS(1008 rounds)        Aft         --     --     --     --   20     94.00
19 ER PPC                  Aft    19(190)19(190)19(190)     --  285    133.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.43%)                                              500.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 4,420      35,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        8,215,120,800 C-Bills
Battle Value:      70,578
Cost per BV:       116,397.76
Weapon Value:      34,602 (Ratio = .49)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 3,860;  MRV = 3,198;  LRV = 1,422;  ERV = 200
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,267,550
                   (966,078 Structure, 205,500 Life Support, 95,972 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 235,125  (19% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 2,  Armor/Structure: 32 / 31
                   Damage PB/M/L: 75/75/55,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DL;  Point Value: 706
                   Specials: artA


Sure, it's a 35k ton dropship, but it will clear out ANY resistance that was there.
« Last Edit: 13 March 2013, 20:01:33 by CloaknDagger »

sillybrit

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #6 on: 13 March 2013, 20:50:27 »
You said the Union. Does that mean it can be a dropship instead?

The Union is a faction in his AU.

CloaknDagger

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #7 on: 13 March 2013, 21:39:48 »
The Union is a faction in his AU.

Oh. Well, my design is close enough. Plus or minus 34900 tons.

Prince of Darkness

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #8 on: 14 March 2013, 10:53:50 »
CnD, he asked for small craft.  That thing is WAY to heavy for anything stealthy.
Cowdragon:
I'm going to type up your response, print it, fold it in half, and look at it like a I would a centerfold. THAT's how sexy your answer was.

CloaknDagger

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #9 on: 14 March 2013, 17:56:23 »
CnD, he asked for small craft.  That thing is WAY to heavy for anything stealthy.

True, but he said highly contested landing zones, not stealth.

The landing zone won't be contested when this thing comes by.

serack

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #10 on: 14 March 2013, 18:04:22 »
well it can clear its own landing zone lol

Dave Talley

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #11 on: 14 March 2013, 18:04:31 »
CnD

you only missed one thing
drop a few arrrows and give it a 6 craft light vehicle bay with a door
load 6 ferrets for use as spotters
dont need TAG on them, just throw half a dozen missles at a target
something will hit it

and my brain is boggled by the possible size of the minefield this many Arrows can deploy

:-)
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

sillybrit

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Re: A high threat Small Craft BA/Protomech insertion design?
« Reply #12 on: 19 March 2013, 01:50:07 »
Actually, there's something more important that has been missed. I finally looked closely at your design, CnD, and noticed that the ship only has 2/3 thrust.

So that means it could land but then never leave the planet again, because craft with 2 or less safe thrust cannot liftoff (TW p88, Liftoff). Even if it doesn't land, it doesn't have the thrust to climb while in the atmosphere, because you need at least 4 to do so: 2 thrust points to counter the effect of gravity & 2 more to actually increase velocity so that you can accelerated upwards (see TW p79, High-Altitude Movement). If you just dipped into the atmosphere, you couldn't then get back into space because a craft has to be able to spend 4 thrust points to move from an interface hex into a space hex (see TW p79, Space/Atmosphere Interface section that starts on p78)

There's other problems, but that's the fundamental flaw.