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Author Topic: Deluxe Galley Fittings  (Read 541 times)

Daryk

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Deluxe Galley Fittings
« on: 16 October 2022, 11:30:49 »
Under RAW, galley facilities are simply part and parcel of crew quarters.  Given the existence of the "Field Kitchen" groundside, it struck me there should be at least a minor benefit to dedicating extra tonnage and crew to cooking aboard ship.  So I propose the following:

1) "Field Kitchen" equipment is permitted to be installed aboard Small Craft, DropShips, JumpShips and WarShips, and there is no limit to the number.
2) Each comes with three additional required crew, who must be provided quarters just like the rest of the crew.
3) This allows a ship to stretch its consumables by 5% without impacting crew morale, and reduce Fatigue (Campaign Operations, page 219) as per Field Kitchens.  This does not stack if multiple "Field Kitchens" are installed, and also doesn't apply if fewer than one is installed per 150 crew and passengers (hence there not being a limit to the number that a ship may install).

mikecj

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #1 on: 16 October 2022, 12:02:52 »
I like it but maybe remove the "Small Galley"/field kitchen from the larger ships in favor of a "standard galley" and give a 6% or 7% bonus to the larger WarShips?

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Daryk

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #2 on: 16 October 2022, 12:13:28 »
Having served on large ships (carriers), I'm more familiar with multiple galleys for that size crew.

idea weenie

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #3 on: 16 October 2022, 14:31:35 »
One key is how will the fancier kitchen extend life support?  Is it made of lighter materials to allow carrying more food?  Is it linked to a better recycling system so wastes get reduced to ash, fed to algae tanks, and the algae used to supplement the food being served?


One idea might be an item called "Aquaponics Array" that works to provide extra life support based on its max capacity or proportional to the ship's current population, whichever is lower.  There would still be story ideas where someone finds an older array and puts it back into operation, and it spends most of its time converting the large amount of wastes back into usable 'food'.

The fun part would be determining the payback rate.  IIRC, a Quarters will be better than a Bay on a per person case at ~110 days, so this Aquaponics should take even longer in terms of payback rate.  Payback rate is where the extra mass needed for the Aquaponics is equal to an equivalent extra mass in more Life Support.

For example if an Aquaponics Array can support 130 people and will expect to break even at 180 days, that means it has to mass 117 tons (130/200*180).

Daryk

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #4 on: 16 October 2022, 14:39:34 »
Nothing so fancy... merely less reliance on packaging of individual servings.

mikecj

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #5 on: 16 October 2022, 14:53:24 »
Think of it as using #10 cans vs individual cans to make a meal for large numbers of people.  Less packaging and generally less waste.


Having served as a tourist onboard a carrier... I defer.  ;)
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Daryk

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #6 on: 16 October 2022, 15:01:56 »
Back when I was on subs, our Supply Officer actually proved to the Captain that buying boneless chicken (which cost more up front) actually saved man-hours in preparation and quite a lot in trash (disposing of which makes NOISE).  Everyone was happier in the end!

idea weenie

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #7 on: 16 October 2022, 15:06:19 »
Think of it as using #10 cans vs individual cans to make a meal for large numbers of people.  Less packaging and generally less waste.

Having served as a tourist onboard a carrier... I defer.  ;)

Ah.  I figured carriers would be supplied with #10 cans anyway and just use the sailors to partition the food into individual servings.

Daryk

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #8 on: 16 October 2022, 15:13:31 »
« Last Edit: 17 October 2022, 03:14:42 by Daryk »

DOC_Agren

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #9 on: 16 October 2022, 21:47:55 »
Back when I was on subs, our Supply Officer actually proved to the Captain that buying boneless chicken (which cost more up front) actually saved man-hours in preparation and quite a lot in trash (disposing of which makes NOISE).  Everyone was happier in the end!
As someone who works in food service ordering, saved man-hours in prep is a value you need to figure in to the food cost
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idea weenie

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #10 on: 17 October 2022, 00:10:59 »
A quick visual aid:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7P2QY48xzs  8)

The ~gallon jugs of oil plus the #10 cans look as expected (no individual servings), the Eggo is at least in giant boxes, and the rest of the video has people cooking up large quantities of food to be served rather than individual servings.

sneakylikeajavelin

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #11 on: 17 October 2022, 15:55:23 »
If the kitchen facilities are normally "built-in" to the quarters then a ship designed with one or more galleys should also be able to get away without having those facilities in the quarters, so could receive a discount on the tonnage cost of those quarters (say 2%, rounding down to the half-ton).

Or another way to account for it would be to say that you get an appropriately-sized galley for no tonnage (because it's built into the tonnage for quarters), but that you need a team of three chefs to get the benefit of reduced food consumption for every X people. Think of them in the same way you have technician teams and medical teams  ;)

Daryk

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #12 on: 17 October 2022, 18:57:37 »
That's a different discussion, really.  I've long held that Infantry Bay quality quarters should be sufficient for Small Craft at least.  Their mission profiles are short enough that a microwave and a sink are more than necessary.

AlphaMirage

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #13 on: 17 October 2022, 19:13:34 »
I'd argue with you on that Daryk, small craft could be anything from surface to orbit to potentially weeks long interplanetary transports

Daryk

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #14 on: 17 October 2022, 19:59:24 »
Anything under 90 days or so is better served by bay quality quarters...  8)

idea weenie

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #15 on: 17 October 2022, 20:19:35 »
I'd argue with you on that Daryk, small craft could be anything from surface to orbit to potentially weeks long interplanetary transports

A Foot Infantry Bay (FIB) is 5 tons and can carry up to 30 people.  It consumes Life Support at 20 man-days per ton.
A Steerage Quarter is 5 tons but can only handle 1 person.  It consumes Life Support at 200 man-days per ton.

So the question becomes where the two will intersect, at what amount of days will they have equal mass.

Code: [Select]
Infantry Bay = 5 tons/30 people, or 1 ton / 6 people, or 1/6 of a ton per person + 1/20 of a ton per day
Steerage = 5 tons per person + 1/200 of a ton per day * days

1/6 of a ton per person * 1 person + 1/20 of a ton per day * time = 5 tons per person * 1 person + 1/200 of a ton per day * time
1/6 of a ton + 1/20 of a ton per day * time - 1/200 of a ton per day * time = 5 tons
1/20 of a ton per day * time - 1/200 of a ton per day * time = 5 tons - 1/6 of a ton
time * (1/20 of a ton per day - 1/200 of a ton per day) = 5 tons - 1/6 of a ton
time * (10/200 of a ton per day - 1/200 of a ton per day) = 4 6/6 tons - 1/6 of a ton
time * (9/200 of a ton per day) = 4 5/6 tons
time * 9/200 tons/day = 4 5/6 tons
time * 9/200 tons = 4 5/6 tons * days
time * 9/200 = 4 5/6 * days
time = 200/9 * 29/6 * days
time = (200*29)/(9*6) * days
time = (5800)/(54) * days
time = 107.41 days

So if the trip is less than 108 days, you can carry more people using Foot Infantry Bays.  If the trip is 108 or more days (14 weeks), Quarters will take less mass.
Test:
107 days:
FIB = 1/6 of a ton + 107/20 tons = 5.5167 tons
SQ = 5 tons + 107/200 tons = 5.535 tons
108 days:
FIB = 1/6 of a ton + 108/20 tons = 5.567 tons
SQ = 5 tons + 108/200 tons = 5.54 tons

The equation to use that you can plug in numbers is:
time in days = (mass for one person in Method_1 - mass for one person in Method_2) / (tons consumed by one person per day for Method_2 - tons consumed by one person per day for Method_1)

In the above math Method_1 is the Steerage Quarters (5 & 1/200), while Method_2 is FIB (1/6 & 1/20).  The time in days is: (5 - 1/6) / (1/20-1/200) = 107.407407 . . . days

So if you use fancier Bays to put people in (.25 tons per person) and nothing else changes, the math becomes (5 - .25) / (1/20-1/200) = 105.555 . . . days

Now the real nice part about using Bays instead of Quarters, is that on a very short hop you can shove a lot of profitable cargo in that space.  For example a Small Craft with Steerage Quarters and 100 days of supplies is carrying 5.5 tons per person, of which 5 tons is the Steerage Quarters.  A Small craft with FIB is carrying around 5.167 tons per person, of which 5 tons is cargo capacity.  If a mission comes up that the Captain/Owner of the Small Craft decides will only need 10 days of Life Support, then the Quarters will free up 90/200 = .45 tons of cargo, while the FIB will free up 90/20 = 4.5 tons of cargo.

Hope this helps

Daryk

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #16 on: 17 October 2022, 20:24:33 »
The original math leading to ~90 days as the break point was before TPTB acknowledged the Taurians exist...  ^-^

idea weenie

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #17 on: 17 October 2022, 20:31:32 »
The original math leading to ~90 days as the break point was before TPTB acknowledged the Taurians exist...  ^-^

That's how stubborn the Taurians are, they changed the rules of their universe  ;D

Daryk

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #18 on: 17 October 2022, 20:36:01 »
Indeed!  Now you can understand my love of the Lothians...  ^-^

AlphaMirage

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #19 on: 17 October 2022, 20:36:06 »
Snip

I know I've run it already, here . However I have also run the cost per ton of cargo for small craft as well here you don't need any cargo fancier than hydrocarbons to break even on short trips in canon and that's one way. The S7 can be profitable with hydrogen it can crack out en route from ice it picked up.

idea weenie

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Re: Deluxe Galley Fittings
« Reply #20 on: 17 October 2022, 22:12:08 »
I know I've run it already, here. However I have also run the cost per ton of cargo for small craft as well here you don't need any cargo fancier than hydrocarbons to break even on short trips in canon and that's one way. The S7 can be profitable with hydrogen it can crack out en route from ice it picked up.

The goal was to show that a vessel using Foot Infantry Bays had more flexibility.  A vessel with Quarters and designed for 100 days when traveling a shorter route will have at most 9.1% of its capacity available for cargo (.5 tons / 5.5 tons).  A vessel with FIB for passengers on a shorter route can have as much as 96% of its capacity available for cargo (5/5.167).  As the length of passage increases the percentage available will drop.

So assuming a Dropship has 6,000 ton available for Passengers, Life Support, and cargo.  A single person might need 6 tons total in either mode (1 Steerage Quarters + 1 ton of Life Support, vs a FIB of 1/4 of a ton and 5.75 tons of Life Support.  (I went with 1/4 of a ton to make the math easy).  At 6 tons per person, that is 1,000 people being carried by the Dropship.  Then something happens, where the ship's Captain decides that only 50 days of Life Support is needed.  The Dropship with Quarters will take up 5 tons base plus .25 tons (50/200) of Life Support, leaving .75 tons per person or 750 tons total cargo empty.  The Dropship with FIB will need .25 tons per person plus 2.5 tons (50/20) of Life Support, for a total of 2.75 tons, leaving 3.25 tons available per person, or 3250 tons of cargo.

For costs, I will be using the ones from Tech Manual, p293:
Infantry Bays: 15,000 C-Bills/ton
Steerage Quarters: 5,000 C-Bills each

So if I am using a Passenger Bay of a quarter ton, that is 3750 C-Bills in Manufacturing cost per person being carried.  Putting the same passenger in a Steerage Quarter will cost 5,000 C-Bills.  If I am allocating more than 1/3 of a ton to carry a passenger in a Bay, it would be cheaper (but larger in mass) to carry that person in Quarters.


The first link with the Dropship comparison spreadsheet, I could not find a way to compare the two Dropship designs (one with Quarters, one with Foot Infantry Bays) for varying mission lengths.  Off-hand it looked like I would have to manually change the 'Endurance' on the "Vessel Details" tab, but also change the 'Days' value on the "Fare Calculator" tab.  (Go to the first link in your post to see what I mean.)

One idea for a better Dropship comparison might be just showing available tonnage for the Quarters, Bays, and Life Support.  From there the player would input how many of what type of Living situation the passengers would have (mass per person in Foot Infantry Bays, # of Steerage Quarters, # of 2nd Class Quarters, # of First Class Quarters), number of days you want the vessel to last, and calculating these masses and costs (the rest of the Dropship will be identical).  This way you could have multiple columns where the designer plots how many Quarters/Bays/days the Dropship is expected to support, and if those requirements take up too much room or leave enough space for other cargo.  From those values the designer can see what provides the most profit or comfort for the mission.

For example if I am allocating a half-ton 'Bay' per passenger, those bays will have a Design cost of 7500 C-Bills each.  But if the trip is short enough, can I fit enough half-ton Bays  and charge a decent price to make up for the mass taken up by the cheaper Steerage Quarters?

 

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