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Author Topic: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.  (Read 474 times)

FastConcentrate8

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So another design for our AU is a bit of a golden opportunity for munchkinsim.

During the Twilight of the First Star League, one of our original Successor States became very concerned about rumors coming out of the Rim Worlds Republic about the development of a next generation of very large Battleships. These ships were what we know as the Stefan Amaris class, but at the time, the intelligence of the Inner Sphere knew very little about these ships other than they were going to be big and powerful. Worst of all, the SLDF and the Hegemony does nothing about these rumors even after concrete intelligence develops on the project.

As such, their military under orders from the Autarch (House Lord) decides to take matters into their own hands and build the most powerful single WarShip class the Inner Sphere had ever seen. This thing is meant to out gun, out mass, and be able to defeat any other WarShip ever constructed in one on one combat. These ships are meant to serve as the centerpieces of the State's Navy and thus needs to have adequate facilities and protection as a flagship. These ships are also required to have a good DropShip capacity for either an escort wing of Assault DropShips or carrying an Invasion Force to their target.

There are only three requirements for this thing as a definite though.
1. It must mount a Heavy Mass Driver as its primary weapon to grant it the ability to mission kill the majority of WarShips or enact a superheavy orbital bombardment on its own.
2. It must be extremely heavily armored. One of these things in our AU canonically survived the Succession Wars through its sheer durability and luck.
3. 2 million tons displacement MINIMUM

Don't worry about cost too much. This thing was built by the most industrialized of all the Inner Sphere nations as part of a d**k measuring contest with Amaris. They had the budget available.

Now, gentlemen. The Kaiser Class Battleships await.
« Last Edit: 24 May 2022, 22:14:47 by FastConcentrate8 »

Giovanni Blasini

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  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #1 on: 24 May 2022, 14:45:41 »
I am almost ashamed of having come up with this.  Almost.  Hampering it with a heavy mass driver, which takes up 100 kilotons it could better use elsewhere, helps.

Code: [Select]
Telphousia class Battleship
Mass: 2,300,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 2,300,000
Battle Value: 310,430
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-X
Cost: 22,843,806,000 C-bills

Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 9
KF Drive Integrity: 44
Heat Sinks: 8954 (17908)
Structural Integrity: 130

Armor
    Nose: 825
    Fore Sides: 1102/1102
    Aft Sides: 1102/1102
    Aft: 825

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (40)            6 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (12)        4 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (68837.5 tons)    4 Doors   

Ammunition:
    240 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (12,000 tons),
    240 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (7,200 tons),
    100 rounds of Heavy Mass Driver ammunition (100 tons),
    240 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (9,600 tons),
    80 rounds of Light N-Gauss ammunition (16 tons),
    96 rounds of AR10 Santa Anna ammunition (240 tons),
    96 rounds of AR10 Peacemaker ammunition (300 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 2 (100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 24
Life Boats: 24
Crew:  110 officers, 404 enlisted/non-rated, 145 gunners, 140 bay personnel, 64 BA marines

Notes: Mounts 5,980 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (855 Heat)
1 Mass Driver (Heavy)                       90  140(1400)140(1400)140(1400)   0(0)   Capital Mass Driver
    Heavy Mass Driver Ammo (100 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Gauss (Light)                       36   60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital Gauss
    Light N-Gauss Ammo (40 shots)
7 Laser AMS                                 49   2(21)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
FRS/FLS (2,609 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  80   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   AR10       
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Santa Anna Ammo (16 shots)
    AR10 Peacemaker Ammo (16 shots)
    AR10 White Shark Ammo (40 shots)
7 Laser AMS                                 49   2(21)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
RBS/LBS (2,609 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  80   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   AR10       
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Santa Anna Ammo (16 shots)
    AR10 Peacemaker Ammo (16 shots)
    AR10 White Shark Ammo (80 shots)
7 Laser AMS                                 49   2(21)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
ARS/ALS (2,609 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  80   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   AR10       
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Santa Anna Ammo (16 shots)
    AR10 Peacemaker Ammo (16 shots)
7 Laser AMS                                 49   2(21)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
Aft (765 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Gauss (Light)                       36   60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital Gauss
    Light N-Gauss Ammo (40 shots)
7 Laser AMS                                 49   2(21)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         

"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Alsadius

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #2 on: 24 May 2022, 15:01:26 »
Maximizing toughness first, I wanted to build it 4/6 for the extra SI and armor, but you can't get 4/6, 180 SI, and a heavy mass driver in unless you cut the other capital weapons to pretty low levels. But even with 3/5 speed, maximizing the SI and armor results in 7200 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor, which gives it 7,290 armor points (over four times the 1571 that the Stefan Amaris would eventually be shown to have, and higher than even the canonical Leviathan II/III's 6000 points).

Each facing of the Kaiser has six AMS systems and six naval lasers, to protect the ship against smaller threats, but the core of the design (other than the "Kaiser's Fist" mass driver itself) is the eight heavy weapons on each facing. On the nose, aft, and broadsides, ammo-independent heavy PPCs were installed, to ensure the ship would have the ability to engage in fights (or precisely targeted orbital bombardment) for as long as needed. For major damage on the broadsides, each of the ship's corners has six NAC/35 autocannons to provide massive smashing potential at close range, and two heavy naval Gauss rifles for long-range firepower. The heat-sinking systems are also extremely powerful, allowing the ship's entire armament to be in combat simultaneously, should the ship ever become surrounded.

Supporting this abundance of weapons and armor is a significant force of supporting arms. Seventy-two fighters and eight DropShips provide coverage in space, while the ship also has berthing space for over five hundred ground troops, and the facilities for the orbital insertion of a full Mech company, a company of light vehicles, and a battalion of infantry. The ship is also equipped with a large naval comm-scanner suite, and even a mobile HyperPulse Generator to allow the Autarch to remain in communication with their admiral (or possibly to take command of the ship personally and still run the empire, if they so desire). The ship also has a Lithium-Fusion battery and substantial fuel storage, to maximize strategic movement speed.

Critics of the class have pointed to its impressively high cost as a downside to the design, as well as worrying about its limited cargo space - only 1% of total ship mass, which is substantially less than on most ships intended for long-range deployment. The cost was expected to be approved despite the grumbling, and Fleet Command has tentatively decided to use only six of the DropShips for active combat(comparable to the support available to most other modern battleships), with the last two being used for logistical support DropShips instead.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Kaiser-class Heavy Battleship
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $43,513,974,000.00
Magazine Cost: $2,844,000,000.00
BV2: 334,284

Mass: 2,400,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
1 Mass Driver Heavy
24 Naval AC 35
8 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy
32 Naval PPC Heavy
48 Naval Laser 55
48 AMS (IS)

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 432,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 6,000.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (47 Integrity) 1,110,000.00
Jump Sail: (9 Integrity) 150.00
Structural Integrity: 150 360,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 7221(14442) Double 6,247.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 6837 points 2,789.70
Fire Control Computers: 13,060.30
Armor: 7290 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 7,200.00
Fore: 1200
Fore-Left/Right: 1250/1250
Aft-Left/Right: 1250/1250
Aft: 1090

Dropship Capacity: 8 8,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 3 150.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 112 784.00
Life Boats: 90 630.00

Crew And Passengers:
112 Officers in 2nd Class Quarters 784.00
413 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 2,891.00
144 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 1,008.00
238 Bay Personnel 0.00
20 1st Class Passengers 200.00
60 2nd Class Passengers 420.00
480 Steerage Passengers 2,400.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
1 Mass Driver Heavy Nose 90 1400 (140-C) Long-C 100,000.00
6 Naval AC 35 FL 720 2100 (210-C) Medium-C 24,000.00
6 Naval AC 35 FR 720 2100 (210-C) Medium-C 24,000.00
6 Naval AC 35 AL 720 2100 (210-C) Medium-C 24,000.00
6 Naval AC 35 AR 720 2100 (210-C) Medium-C 24,000.00
2 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy FL 36 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 14,000.00
2 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy FR 36 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 14,000.00
2 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy AL 36 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 14,000.00
2 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy AR 36 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 14,000.00
8 Naval PPC Heavy Nose 1800 1200 (120-C) Extreme-C 24,000.00
8 Naval PPC Heavy LBS 1800 1200 (120-C) Extreme-C 24,000.00
8 Naval PPC Heavy RBS 1800 1200 (120-C) Extreme-C 24,000.00
8 Naval PPC Heavy Aft 1800 1200 (120-C) Extreme-C 24,000.00
6 Naval Laser 55 Nose 510 330 (33-C) Extreme-C 6,600.00
6 Naval Laser 55 LBS 510 330 (33-C) Extreme-C 6,600.00
6 Naval Laser 55 RBS 510 330 (33-C) Extreme-C 6,600.00
6 Naval Laser 55 Aft 510 330 (33-C) Extreme-C 6,600.00
6 Naval Laser 55 FL 510 330 (33-C) Extreme-C 6,600.00
6 Naval Laser 55 FR 510 330 (33-C) Extreme-C 6,600.00
6 Naval Laser 55 AL 510 330 (33-C) Extreme-C 6,600.00
6 Naval Laser 55 AR 510 330 (33-C) Extreme-C 6,600.00
6 AMS (IS) Nose 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00
6 AMS (IS) LBS 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00
6 AMS (IS) RBS 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00
6 AMS (IS) Aft 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00
6 AMS (IS) FL 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00
6 AMS (IS) FR 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00
6 AMS (IS) AL 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00
6 AMS (IS) AR 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00

Ammo Rounds Mass
Mass Driver Heavy Ammo 50 4,500.00
Naval AC 35 Ammo 1200 1,200.00
Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy Ammo 400 200.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 4800 400.00

Bays Number Doors
Bay Mech 12 4
Bay Vehicle Light 12 4
Bay Infantry Compartment 12 4
Bay Fighter 72 18
Bay Small Craft 2 1
Cargo, Standard 24000 1

Equipment
NCSS Large
Mobile HPG

And unlike Giovanni, I'm not ashamed at all  ;D

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #3 on: 24 May 2022, 17:17:18 »
What’s the tech limit date (other than Clan tech which I assume is no go)? Are we talking 3025 Fourth War era or earlier?

FastConcentrate8

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #4 on: 24 May 2022, 17:18:11 »
What’s the tech limit date (other than Clan tech which I assume is no go)? Are we talking 3025 Fourth War era or earlier?
Late Star League.

Bonus points for the refit she got right on the eve of the Clan Invasion.

HeavyArmorMecha

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #5 on: 24 May 2022, 20:42:46 »
2.1 Million metric tons of pure SL-era vintage design, I present, the Anchovy-class Dreadnought!

Code: [Select]
Anchovy-class Dreadnought
Mass: 2,100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 2770
Mass: 2,100,000
Battle Value: 197,502
Tech Rating/Availability: E/F-X-F-F
Cost: 35,634,639,798 C-bills

Fuel: 9,485 tons (23,712)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 8
KF Drive Integrity: 41
Heat Sinks: 1266 (2532)
Structural Integrity: 120

Armor
    Nose: 545
    Fore Sides: 545/545
    Aft Sides: 545/545
    Aft: 371

Cargo
    Bay 1:  ARTS Fighter (56)       6 Doors   
    Bay 2:  ARTS Fighter (56)       6 Doors   
    Bay 3:  ARTS Fighter (56)       6 Doors   
    Bay 4:  ARTS Fighter (56)       6 Doors   
    Bay 5:  ARTS Small Craft (36)   4 Doors   
    Bay 6:  Cargo (200714.0 tons)   0 Doors   

Ammunition:
    360 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (15 tons),
    704 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (800 tons),
    20 rounds of Heavy Mass Driver ammunition (1 tons),
    64 rounds of Peacemaker ammunition (800 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 4 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 66
Life Boats: 66
Crew:  135 officers, 552 enlisted/non-rated, 121 gunners, 180 bay personnel, 310 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Satellite Imager [Infrared Imager]
    1 MASH Equipment (30 theaters)
    1 Satellite Imager [High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Imager]
    1 Satellite Imager [Look-Down Radar]
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
5,040 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (252 Heat)
1 Mass Driver (Heavy)                      90  140(1400)140(1400)140(1400)   0(0)   Capital Mass Driver
    Heavy Mass Driver Ammo (20 shots)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)
FRS/FLS (844 Heat)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)
RBS/LBS (844 Heat)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)
ARS/ALS (844 Heat)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)
Aft (844 Heat)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Peacemaker Ammo (4 shots)
    Killer Whale Ammo (44 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (24 shots)


As per the theme, her main selling point is the Bow-mounted Heavy Mass Driver, nicknamed the "Yamato" that could obliterate almost anything short of a small planetoid.

Naturally this attracts a lot of attention that wants her sunken or out of action, so I have an elaborate array of measures to protect her against all harm.

The first layer of protection is 4 full regiments of Aerospace fighters, capable of holding hostiles at a distance. Each regiment occupies a Fighter Bay aided by advance Star League automatons to refuel, rearm, repair and maintain the Fighters.

Next, we have 64 Killer Whale Capital Missile Launchers spread around the warship, providing 360° coverage at extreme distance. Each Launcher's magazine is also loaded secretly with a single round of Peacemaker Asset Management Device in case of emergency.

For medium range deterrence against dropships or fighters that made it through the missiles, an array of 56 NL/55 Naval Lasers provides adequate protection.

If any hostiles manage to launch missiles, they would be met by the Anti-Missile-System grid covering the entire length of the ship.

Even if all else fails, 5040 tons of premium Improved Ferro Aluminum armor provides 3096 Capital points of protection, and underneath that, is 120 points of internal structure.

Last but not least, a full battalion of Marine Infantry is standing by to repel boarders and provide internal security.

6 Dropship docking collars and 36 utility shuttles are thrown in just to make life easier.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #6 on: 25 May 2022, 07:00:58 »
1. It must mount a Heavy Mass Driver as its primary weapon to grant it the ability to mission kill the majority of WarShips or enact a superheavy orbital bombardment on its own.


Well, it already means it is not the battleship, and it is more like the planet killer styled weapon. Mass Driver is actaully unfit for line warships, nor this weapon is good at combat eiter. Battleships should able to focus its fire to its left and right, but adding the heavy and inaccurate weapon makes the ship actually weaker combatant. Is it really a must? I think that it is fine to put it as a dead weight on such a heavy warship, but using it as the main gun is not something you can get.

Alsadius

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #7 on: 25 May 2022, 07:19:24 »
Well, it already means it is not the battleship, and it is more like the planet killer styled weapon. Mass Driver is actaully unfit for line warships, nor this weapon is good at combat eiter. Battleships should able to focus its fire to its left and right, but adding the heavy and inaccurate weapon makes the ship actually weaker combatant. Is it really a must? I think that it is fine to put it as a dead weight on such a heavy warship, but using it as the main gun is not something you can get.

If we're building to optimize tabletop combat potential, you're right. But it's plausible that a navy would go for something like that, and downright likely that one would make it to design stages. It'd be seen as an error by historians to actually build one, but there's plenty of those ships in naval history, even so.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #8 on: 25 May 2022, 07:54:01 »
Code: [Select]
Kerensky Class Battleship (Standard)
Mass: 2,500,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3060
Mass: 2,500,000
Battle Value: 318,127
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-X
Cost: 40,575,560,000 C-bills

Fuel: 40,000 tons (100,000)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Sail Integrity: 9
KF Drive Integrity: 48
Heat Sinks: 7141 (14282)
Structural Integrity: 80

Armor
    Nose: 593
    Fore Sides: 691/691
    Aft Sides: 691/691
    Aft: 691

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (6)             6 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (6)             6 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (6)             6 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (6)             6 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Fighter (6)             6 Doors   
    Bay 6:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   
    Bay 7:  Standard Repair Facility (Unpressurized) (200,000)1 Door   
    Bay 8:  Cargo (4511.5 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
    40 rounds of Heavy N-Gauss ammunition (20 tons),
    10 rounds of Heavy Mass Driver ammunition (10 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 7 (150 m, 150 m, 150 m, 150 m, 150 m, 150 m, 150 m)
Escape Pods: 100
Life Boats: 100
Crew:  118 officers, 508 enlisted/non-rated, 71 gunners, 70 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 MASH Equipment (10 theaters)
    3 Field Kitchen
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
4,000 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                               Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                         Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (172 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Mass Driver (Heavy)              90  140(1400)140(1400)140(1400)   0(0)   Capital Mass Driver
    Heavy Mass Driver Ammo (10 shots)
FRS/FLS (1,902 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (2,778 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Gauss (Heavy)              36   60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital Gauss
    Heavy N-Gauss Ammo (20 shots)
ARS/ALS (1,902 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
Aft (1,036 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
2 Laser AMS                        14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
1 Large Pulse Laser                10    1(9)    1(9)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser


Well, if you wish.... Although its main tactics should be shoot the broadside. Perhaps 5/8 is bit much? But it allows Kerensky to outmaneuver most slower ships and melt their weak spots.

LAMS is developed on 3059, so it should use normal AMS on the former era.

I wish it add a Naval C3, although it costs much tonnage. But if it had one, perhaps mass driver has a REAL role in combat. Only +2 to hit against extreme range is not a kidding.

Also, because naval gauss battery cannot use bracketing fire mode(at least not enough to mitigate +8 modifier), is it a better idea to swap it by the battery of NAC/35s? If it had Naval C3 then it is not so bad choice, though.
« Last Edit: 25 May 2022, 08:03:59 by PuppyLikesLaserPointers »

HeavyArmorMecha

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #9 on: 25 May 2022, 08:31:30 »
Actually I'm curious....

Why is it that everyone is getting 300k BV designs, but mine is only 190k according to Megamek?

Alsadius

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #10 on: 25 May 2022, 09:25:47 »
Actually I'm curious....

Why is it that everyone is getting 300k BV designs, but mine is only 190k according to Megamek?

A Killer Whale launcher (your primary weapon) is 769 BV. A HNPPC (Puppy's primary weapon) is 3780 BV. A NAC/35 (my primary weapon) is 4956 BV.

Your ship is 64x Killer Whale and 48x NL/55 = 49,216 + 66,528 = 115,744 base weapon BV(ignoring small weapons, ammo, and the mass driver).

Mine is 24x NAC/35, 8x HNGauss, 32x HNPPC, and 48x NL/55 = 118,944 + 48,384 + 120,960 + 66,528 = 354,816 base weapon BV.

Puppy's is 60x HNPPC and 4x HNGauss = 226,800 + 24,192 = 250,992 base weapon BV.

Giovanni's is 48x HNPPC, 24x AR-10, 8x LNGauss, and 64x NL/55 = 181,440 + 23,064 + 24,192 + 88,704 = 317,400 base weapon BV.

The actual BV formulas do get more complicated, including stuff like heat efficiency and arc positioning. But for a first approximation, that's why our BVs are so much higher. Killer Whales just aren't very powerful weapons - your NLs actually do slightly more total damage than your missiles, despite the smaller number of weapons, and your total capital-weapon damage is pretty low. And really, that in turn boils down to your substantial weight investment in things that aren't capital weapons - 51kton in advanced fighter and small craft bays, and just over 200kton in cargo.

I had less than 38kton total between all my bays, which gives me over 200 kton of capital weapons and armor that you don't have. Probably closer to 300 kton when you consider that my ship is also a fair bit heavier(2.4Mton vs 2.1 Mton).

Puppy's ship was even heavier than mine at 2.5Mton, and had less than 15kton total in all his bays, so he has even more space to play with. He spent more of that weight on the HNPPCs than I did, which are somewhat less weight-efficient (hence why his weapon BV is lower than mine), but he would really beat the tar out of me at long ranges, which is what that mass buys him.

Giovanni's bays are around 75kton, so a bit heavier than mine, but his slightly lighter armor gives him more weaponry than I have, and again he'd beat me soundly at long ranges.

Also, if you add in the fighter forces that'd accompany our ships, your BV will climb a fair bit more than ours. You have 152 more fighters than I do - at 1k average BV each, your total force would have a BV slightly higher than mine.
« Last Edit: 25 May 2022, 09:47:15 by Alsadius »

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #11 on: 25 May 2022, 09:30:51 »
Also count on nuclear missiles as well. Without fair amount of AMS, it ends the life of your opponent swift and brutal. You won't forget that Ares Conventions does not cares for nuclear missiles targeting any non-civilian targets more than 75,000 km of a planet.

HeavyArmorMecha

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #12 on: 25 May 2022, 09:33:23 »
Ah, Ok, I get it.

FastConcentrate8

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #13 on: 25 May 2022, 10:04:56 »
Well, it already means it is not the battleship, and it is more like the planet killer styled weapon. Mass Driver is actaully unfit for line warships, nor this weapon is good at combat eiter. Battleships should able to focus its fire to its left and right, but adding the heavy and inaccurate weapon makes the ship actually weaker combatant. Is it really a must? I think that it is fine to put it as a dead weight on such a heavy warship, but using it as the main gun is not something you can get.
That's kinda the point. The Kaiser class was built in out AU as an emergency superweapon by a panicked Successor State when Amaris began the early phases of his powerplay. This thing was built with the intention of being a weapon so powerful and intimidating that it would give even that mad man pause to leave the Inner Sphere at large (ideally) or its home nation at least a weapon that could stop anything he could throw around dead in the water and once the Succession Wars started, these things racked up a terrible toll on any battlefield they were deployed to.

The most infamous example being the second ship of the pair during the First Succession War infiltrated enemy Space due to its Captain's familiarity with Pirate Points, obliterated multiple very important enemy logistics hubs, disrupted shipping, destroyed a substantial number of enemy WarShips, and even managed to land a Mass Driver slug on one of their core worlds before it was finally cornered, wounded, and scuttled to prevent her capture.

Plus we use some house rules on Mass Drivers which make them better weapons in Aerospace because we really enjoy Spinal Weapons. They're still inaccurate, but will now hit enough times to be a scary weapon.
« Last Edit: 25 May 2022, 10:06:45 by FastConcentrate8 »

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #14 on: 25 May 2022, 10:28:31 »
That's kinda the point. The Kaiser class was built in out AU as an emergency superweapon by a panicked Successor State when Amaris began the early phases of his powerplay. This thing was built with the intention of being a weapon so powerful and intimidating that it would give even that mad man pause to leave the Inner Sphere at large (ideally) or its home nation at least a weapon that could stop anything he could throw around dead in the water and once the Succession Wars started, these things racked up a terrible toll on any battlefield they were deployed to.

The most infamous example being the second ship of the pair during the First Succession War infiltrated enemy Space due to its Captain's familiarity with Pirate Points, obliterated multiple very important enemy logistics hubs, disrupted shipping, destroyed a substantial number of enemy WarShips, and even managed to land a Mass Driver slug on one of their core worlds before it was finally cornered, wounded, and scuttled to prevent her capture.

Plus we use some house rules on Mass Drivers which make them better weapons in Aerospace because we really enjoy Spinal Weapons. They're still inaccurate, but will now hit enough times to be a scary weapon.

Yes, yes I understand why we need Ares Conventions. It's too scary.  :'( And that explains why you need one... I wonder you want to power the other weapons with the mass driver at the same time, though, but it seems a worthy choice then.


Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Design Challenge: Build a 2 million ton super-battleship.
« Reply #15 on: 25 May 2022, 18:01:30 »
I went with a more Capellan style themed ship. Gave it a Capellan (Reinforced) Air Regiment and twelve Dropships for support, not to mention a full marine company for defense. A lot of fuel, and enough crew amenities including four grav rings and a 127K ton cargo bay will keep it going for a decent while (supplies MIGHT be a bit low for the air wings). Armor a total shell with just a bit more in the front (to protect the mass driver of course), and nice reinforced bones. Decent ammo stores but most of the weapons are energy weapons. The 3050 upgrade gave it point defense guns and anti-fighter guns at the cost of some cargo (to fit the new fire-control systems in). Naval Lasers all around, Naval PPC's concentrated in the side and aft arcs, Capital Missiles in the corners, and Heavy Naval Gauss Rifles to back up the Mass Driver.

Wanted to add more Naval AC's and Naval PPC's but also wanted a large cargo bay and a huge air wing. I figure fluff would be something like they saw a Texas and/or McKenna  and then saw their Soyal's and figured the best Warship would throw those two ideas together. Probably started building it a long time ago and finally finished it right before the Amaris coup... and laughed at the Stefan Amaris-class. hen the Succession Wars started I imagined they used it for a while in the First and then after the Second hid it as a final last ditch weapon and then most forgot about it. Found it at the end of the Fourth (not in time to save them) but now it sits over Sian as a floating Celestial Palace (probably sacrificed some cargo to install a throne room and is crew by Mask agents and Death Commandos). Probably also spent a boatload of time in the space docks and finally being reactivated after Turtle Bay (not like the Chancellor's going to send it anywhere).

Code: [Select]
Jù Lóng-class Battleship
Mass: 2,500,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Battle Value: 313,221
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-X
Cost: 52,795,386,000 C-bills

Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 9
KF Drive Integrity: 48
Heat Sinks: 5000 (10000)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 1340
    Fore Sides: 1250/1250
    Aft Sides: 1250/1250
    Aft: 1250

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (39)            6 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (39)            6 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (39)            6 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (39)            6 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Small Craft (6)         2 Doors   
    Bay 6:  Cargo (124780.0 tons)   1 Door   

Ammunition:
    160 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (200 tons),
    160 rounds of Heavy N-Gauss ammunition (2 tons),
    100 rounds of Heavy Mass Driver ammunition (100 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 12
Grav Decks: 4 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 60
Life Boats: 60
Crew:  150 officers, 450 enlisted/non-rated, 100 gunners, 342 bay personnel, 100 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Lithium-Fusion Battery
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
7,500 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       

Nose (870 Heat)
1 Mass Driver (Heavy)                      90  140(1400)140(1400)140(1400)   0(0)   Capital Mass Driver
    Heavy Mass Driver Ammo (100 shots)
8 Naval Laser 45                           560  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital Laser
10 Laser AMS                               70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
10 ER PPC                                  150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC         

FRS/FLS (612 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 45                           280  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital Laser
2 Naval Gauss (Heavy)                      36   60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital Gauss
    Heavy N-Gauss Ammo (40 shots)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (40 shots)
10 Laser AMS                               70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
10 ER PPC                                  150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC         
2 Naval Gauss (Heavy)                      36   60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital Gauss
    Heavy N-Gauss Ammo (40 shots)

RBS/LBS (1,680 Heat)
8 Naval Laser 45                           560  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital Laser
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                        900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
10 Laser AMS                               70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
10 ER PPC                                  150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC         

ARS/ALS (1,440 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 45                           280  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital Laser
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                        900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (40 shots)
10 Laser AMS                               70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
10 ER PPC                                  150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC         

Aft (1,680 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                        900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
8 Naval Laser 45                           560  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital Laser
10 Laser AMS                               70   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
10 ER PPC                                  150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC