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Author Topic: Design Challenge - Congress-D II  (Read 3096 times)

Billy Boy Mark II

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 911
Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« on: 29 May 2019, 14:39:41 »
This design challenge is set around the 3063-3065 period, with relevant tech levels. The FedSuns Government wants an updated and improved Congress-D II.

The Requirements:

An increase in fighter numbers from 6 to between 20-60.
Same dropship numbers as current.
Increase in armour - to maximum possible on the structure.
Increase in firepower - particularly anti-air firepower.
Added Anti-Missile defence.
LF Batteries.
Simplification of ammunition for the NAC's. Basically choose one variant and stick with it rather than having multiple types of the same weapon.
AR-10 missile launchers to be used instead of Killer Whale and White Sharks.
Ample ammunition for all weapons for a prolonged tour.
Larger fuel tanks.

All of the above and keeping costs down as much as possible.

KaiserDunk

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 255
Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2019, 13:12:27 »
I thought I would give this a shot and see where it went.

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Congress D-II
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              780,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            703 meters
Sail Diameter:     1,207 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
   12 AR10 Launcher
   20 NL55
   64 ER PPC
   40 AMS
   32 NAC/20
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
   Where House Davion found a small flotilla of mothballed Congress-class
Frigates in unclear, but the Federated Suns shipwrights were not ones to turn
down a chance to increase the firepower of the Federated Suns Navy.   Using
the basic design as a starting point, shipwrights from across the Federated
Suns were dragooned into the project to improve on one of the classic WarShips
of the Star League.   The goal of the project was to keep the major systems of
the Congress as close to the originals while improving the firepower,
protection, and endurance of the ships.   All of this had to be completed as
quickly as possible while other projects were still under way.
   What the teams of shipwrights and aerospace engineers came up with was
nothing short of revolutionary.   The engineers removed the massive cargo bays
of the original to make room for increased fighter bays to allow the Congress
to carry a substantially improved fighter wing.   The additional weight freed
up allowed the engineers to almost quintuple the fuel supplies and stores for
the crew, allowing the renovated ships to patrol for longer periods of time,
or allow for smaller escort ships to top off fuel if need be.   The weight
nsavings also allowed for the shipwrights to place as much advanced lamellor
ferro-carbide armor on the old hull frames as they could carry.   This has
given the Davion Congresses the armor protection of some battleships and
turned the escort frigate into a vessel capable of engaging in slugging
matches with ships larger than herself.
   The firepower of the vessels was where the engineers focused a great deal
of effort.   Taking the loadout back to basics, the core of the firepower for
the Congress now lies with its massed batteries of Imperator naval
autocannons.   Mounted in a series of twin turrets, the cannons are
well-supplied with ammunition for multiple engagements.   The vessel also
carries several advanced AR10 MVLS launchers with a mix of Killer Whale and
White Shark missiles to provide long-range firepower.   The greatest addition
to the Congress was in the defensive firepower, centered around massed
batteries of ER PPCs and point-defense AMS turrets.   The new layout is tied
together in an advanced network that allows the gunners to better engage
multiple fighters more easily.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Congress D-II
Mass:              780,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                      140,400.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 16)               352,950.00
Lithium Fusion Battery                                               7,800.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4)                                              69.00
Structural Integrity: 75                                            58,500.00
Total Heat Sinks:    2,430 Double                                    1,856.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   7,650.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              1,950.00
Fire Control Computers:                                              4,992.00
Food & Water:  (120 days supply)                                       286.25
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (1,218 total armor pts)         1,170.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                223
   Fore-Left/Right:                  203/203
   Aft-Left/Right:                   203/203
   Aft:                                 183

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (18) with 3 doors                                2,700.00
   Bay 2:  Fighters (18) with 3 doors                                2,700.00
   Bay 3:  Small Craft (4) with 1 door                                 800.00
   Bay 4:  Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                   70,000.00

DropShip Capacity:  2 Docking Hardpoints                             2,000.00
Grav Deck #1:  (90-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  40 (7 tons each)                                          280.00
Escape Pods:  40 (7 tons each)                                         280.00

Crew and Passengers:
     55 Officers (54 minimum)                                          550.00
    188 Crew (146 minimum)                                           1,316.00
     82 Gunners (82 minimum)                                           574.00
     60 Marines                                                        300.00
     92 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 AR10 (40 KW, 60 WS)      Nose         *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 NL55                     Nose        22     22     22     22  340  4,400.00
4 ER PPC                   Nose     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 ER PPC                   Nose     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          Nose        --     --     --     --    4     18.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       FL/R        40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
4 NL55                     FL/R        22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 ER PPC                   FL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   FL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          FL/R        --     --     --     --    8     36.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       L/RBS       40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       L/RBS       40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       L/RBS       40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       L/RBS       40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 AR10 (20 KW, 30 WS)      L/RBS        *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 NL55                     L/RBS       22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 ER PPC                   L/RBS    4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          L/RBS       --     --     --     --    8     36.00
4 ER PPC                   L/RBS    4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          L/RBS       --     --     --     --    8     36.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       AL/R        40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       AL/R        40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 AR10 (20 KW, 30 WS)      AL/R         *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 ER PPC                   AL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   AL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          AL/R        --     --     --     --    8     36.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       Aft         40     40     40     --  120  5,064.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       Aft         40     40     40     --  120  5,064.00
4 ER PPC                   Aft      4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 ER PPC                   Aft      4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          Aft         --     --     --     --    4     18.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (0.12%)                                              974.75
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 4,860     780,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        10,180,240,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      214,028
Cost per BV:       47,564.99
Weapon Value:      98,402 (Ratio = .46)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 8,012;  MRV = 7,777;  LRV = 5,941;  ERV = 2,235
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 515,359
                   (69,910 Structure, 199,545 Life Support, 245,904 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 373,635  (72% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable

Billy Boy Mark II

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 911
Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2019, 18:28:12 »
Now that is what I'm talking about! ;)

It's for my timeline of a FedSuns where Victor's supports all don't take stupid pills when Kat tries to take over.

A few years down the line new Congress-D's are being built at Panpour for long range patrols.

Any chance you can tweak the fighter bays to 20 each - AFFS doctrine is for a wing of 20 fighters.

KaiserDunk

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 255
Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2019, 21:21:04 »
Here you go.   Less cargo, more fighters.

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Congress D-II
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              780,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            703 meters
Sail Diameter:     1,207 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
   12 AR10 Launcher
   20 NL55
   64 ER PPC
   40 AMS
   32 NAC/20
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
   Where House Davion found a small flotilla of mothballed Congress-class
Frigates in unclear, but the Federated Suns shipwrights were not ones to turn
down a chance to increase the firepower of the Federated Suns Navy.   Using
the basic design as a starting point, shipwrights from across the Federated
Suns were dragooned into the project to improve on one of the classic WarShips
of the Star League.   The goal of the project was to keep the major systems of
the Congress as close to the originals while improving the firepower,
protection, and endurance of the ships.   All of this had to be completed as
quickly as possible while other projects were still under way.
   What the teams of shipwrights and aerospace engineers came up with was
nothing short of revolutionary.   The engineers removed the massive cargo bays
of the original to make room for increased fighter bays to allow the Congress
to carry a substantially improved fighter wing.   The additional weight freed
up allowed the engineers to almost quintuple the fuel supplies and stores for
the crew, allowing the renovated ships to patrol for longer periods of time,
or allow for smaller escort ships to top off fuel if need be.   The weight
nsavings also allowed for the shipwrights to place as much advanced lamellor
ferro-carbide armor on the old hull frames as they could carry.   This has
given the Davion Congresses the armor protection of some battleships and
turned the escort frigate into a vessel capable of engaging in slugging
matches with ships larger than herself.
   The firepower of the vessels was where the engineers focused a great deal
of effort.   Taking the loadout back to basics, the core of the firepower for
the Congress now lies with its massed batteries of Imperator naval
autocannons.   Mounted in a series of twin turrets, the cannons are
well-supplied with ammunition for multiple engagements.   The vessel also
carries several advanced AR10 MVLS launchers with a mix of Killer Whale and
White Shark missiles to provide long-range firepower.   The greatest addition
to the Congress was in the defensive firepower, centered around massed
batteries of ER PPCs and point-defense AMS turrets.   The new layout is tied
together in an advanced network that allows the gunners to better engage
multiple fighters more easily.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Congress D-II
Mass:              780,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                      140,400.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 16)               352,950.00
Lithium Fusion Battery                                               7,800.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4)                                              69.00
Structural Integrity: 75                                            58,500.00
Total Heat Sinks:    2,430 Double                                    1,856.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   7,650.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              1,950.00
Fire Control Computers:                                              4,992.00
Food & Water:  (120 days supply)                                       291.00
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (1,218 total armor pts)         1,170.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                223
   Fore-Left/Right:                  203/203
   Aft-Left/Right:                   203/203
   Aft:                                 183

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (20) with 3 doors                                3,000.00
   Bay 2:  Fighters (20) with 3 doors                                3,000.00
   Bay 3:  Small Craft (4) with 1 door                                 800.00
   Bay 4:  Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                   68,500.00

DropShip Capacity:  2 Docking Hardpoints                             2,000.00
Grav Deck #1:  (90-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  41 (7 tons each)                                          287.00
Escape Pods:  40 (7 tons each)                                         280.00

Crew and Passengers:
     55 Officers (54 minimum)                                          550.00
    188 Crew (146 minimum)                                           1,316.00
     82 Gunners (82 minimum)                                           574.00
     60 Marines                                                        300.00
    100 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 AR10 (40 KW, 60 WS)      Nose         *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 NL55                     Nose        22     22     22     22  340  4,400.00
4 ER PPC                   Nose     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 ER PPC                   Nose     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          Nose        --     --     --     --    4     18.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       FL/R        40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
4 NL55                     FL/R        22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 ER PPC                   FL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   FL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          FL/R        --     --     --     --    8     36.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       L/RBS       40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       L/RBS       40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       L/RBS       40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       L/RBS       40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 AR10 (20 KW, 30 WS)      L/RBS        *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 NL55                     L/RBS       22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 ER PPC                   L/RBS    4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          L/RBS       --     --     --     --    8     36.00
4 ER PPC                   L/RBS    4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          L/RBS       --     --     --     --    8     36.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       AL/R        40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       AL/R        40     40     40     --  240 10,128.00
2 AR10 (20 KW, 30 WS)      AL/R         *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 ER PPC                   AL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   AL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          AL/R        --     --     --     --    8     36.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       Aft         40     40     40     --  120  5,064.00
2 NAC/20(160 rounds)       Aft         40     40     40     --  120  5,064.00
4 ER PPC                   Aft      4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 ER PPC                   Aft      4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          Aft         --     --     --     --    4     18.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (0.24%)                                            1,863.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 4,860     780,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        10,180,490,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      214,028
Cost per BV:       47,566.16
Weapon Value:      98,402 (Ratio = .46)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 8,012;  MRV = 7,777;  LRV = 5,941;  ERV = 2,235
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 516,344
                   (70,495 Structure, 199,945 Life Support, 245,904 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 373,635  (72% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable

Tyrchon

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #4 on: 31 May 2019, 22:11:49 »
I see a few issues with these designs, one major and the others minor.

The major issue, Congress class frigates are 760,000 tons not 780,000 tons.  You've got an extra 20,000 tons added in there.  If these are meant to be refits, like you indicated, then adding in that extra 20,000 tons would mean having to replace the jump-core and a vast majority of the ship's primary systems to deal with the additional weight.  Such a thing would be incredibly costly and add a huge amount of extra time needed to complete the refit, so I think you need to recalculate your build around the original 760,000 tonnage.

The minor issues are the following. 

First, you still only have a single 90-meter diameter grav deck.  That's adequate for a crew of 256 but you've nearly doubled the crew to 485 so only having that single 90-meter grav deck is going to make things tight for personnel.  Morale will suffer, especially if you are expecting these ships to patrol for long periods of time.  Even if you burn fuel to help crews feel an artificial sense of gravity in order to try and combat the physical ailments that come with long term work in zero-g, the grav deck is where the major entertainment and recreational areas are for the crew, areas that they will not be able to have as much access to anymore given the massive increase in crew compliment.  This is largely a result of using the refit to turn the Congress into a carrier when it doesn't have the proper facilities for one.  You either need to add another grav deck, decrease the personnel, or have crews suffer physically and in terms of morale, especially when compared to the better crew accommodations on the Fox and Avalon classes.

Second, this refit has nearly tripled the cost of each Congress.  While that is still less than the similar-sized Avalons, it most likely will not make the bean-counters happy.  It will also not make the admiralty board happy as they will question why they are building two ships, the Congress and Avalon classes, that are so similar to each other when one is nearly twice the cost of the other.  The unintentional consequence is that this could very likely curtail building Avalons in favor of Congresses.

Third, the weapon placement is poor.  The NAC/20s are all mounted in double mounts when they can actually be put into triples for better bracketing potential thus increasing the ability to hit targets as well as increase damage potential.  There is no need for so many Nac/20s in the the broadsides.  You would be better off moving a few of them into triple mounts on the fore and after arcs instead.  Warship fighting in Battletech predominantly concentrates on the fore and aft arcs and not the broadsides.

Fourth, I would switch out those regular Marines for Battle Armor Marines given the changes in threats that these ships are likely to encounter in the 3060s and beyond.  Dealing with pirates and periphery bandits is one thing, but you also now have the Capellans, the Canopians, the Taurians, and the Dracs utilizing Battle Armor not to mention the remainder of the Jaguars with their Elementals.  These ships and their marine compliment are going to be expected to carryout boarding and counter-boarding operations against such opponents, potentially, so better to be prepared for what is already starting to become the norm rather than play catch-up after you lose a ship to enemy boarders or a large batch of marines while boarding an opposing vessel.  Also on that note, if you are expecting these ships to actually carryout boarding actions then you might want to bump up the number of Small Craft to carry out such operations.

I think you would be better off changing your ship type.  The Congress was meant to be a frigate and you are trying to turn it into a carrier/cruiser.  You can do that, but you are going to need to do some larger rework to make it properly carryout such roles, all the while costs in time and resources are going to mount with the actually design process, the work being carried out, and then field trials.  Ballooning costs are eventually going to catch-up and both the bean-counters and admiralty board are going to ask why you have competing designs being built.  For what you are seeking to have in these Congress refits, you would be better off with the smaller Davion II.  Simply refitting one of those to a 3060+ standard only doubles the cost instead of tripling them.

KaiserDunk

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 255
Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #5 on: 31 May 2019, 23:46:17 »
Thank you for the feedback.   I went back to the drawing-board on this, and I think the updated design looks better.

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Congress D-IIa Cruiser
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              760,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
   12 AR10 Launcher
   12 NL55
   64 ER PPC
   32 AMS
   39 NAC/20
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
   Where House Davion found a small flotilla of mothballed Congress-class
Frigates in unclear, but the Federated Suns shipwrights were not ones to turn
down a chance to increase the firepower of the Federated Suns Navy.   Using
the basic design as a starting point, shipwrights from across the Federated
Suns were dragooned into the project to improve on one of the classic WarShips
of the Star League.   The goal of the project was to keep the major systems of
the Congress as close to the originals while improving the firepower,
protection, and endurance of the ships.   All of this had to be completed as
quickly as possible while other projects were still under way.
   What the teams of shipwrights and aerospace engineers came up with was
nothing short of revolutionary.   The engineers removed the massive cargo bays
of the original to make room for increased fighter bays to allow the Congress
to carry a substantially improved fighter wing and act as a battle carrier. 
The additional weight freed up allowed the engineers to almost quintuple the
fuel supplies and stores for the crew as well as an additional grav wheel,
allowing the renovated ships to patrol for longer periods of time.   A set of
lithium-fusion batteries were also shoehorned into the ship to bring it up to
more modern standards.
   The weight savings also allowed for the shipwrights to place as much
advanced lamellor ferro-carbide armor on the old hull frames as they could
carry.   This has given the Davion Congresses comparable arrmor protection to
some heavy cruisers or battleships and turned the escort frigate into a vessel
capable of engaging in slugging matches with ships larger than herself.
   The firepower of the vessels was where the engineers focused a great deal
of effort.   Taking the loadout back to basics, the core of the firepower for
the Congress now lies with its massed batteries of Imperator naval
autocannons.   Mounted in a series of triple turrets, the cannons are
well-supplied with ammunition for multiple engagements.   The vessel also
carries several advanced AR10 MVLS launchers with a mix of Killer Whale and
White Shark missiles to provide long-range firepower.   The greatest addition
to the Congress was in the defensive firepower, centered around massed
batteries of ER PPCs and point-defense AMS turrets.   The new layout is tied
together in an advanced network that allows the gunners to better engage
multiple fighters more easily.
   The one major drawback to the emergency program has been its cost, both
financial as well as in the skilled engineers and shipwrights diverted to what
was initially hailed as a quick update.   While the time it took to
manufacture both the armored frame as well as the KF drives was cut to almost
nothing, delays in the upgrades as well as the sheer time it was taking to
complete the project has eaten into resources for the Avalon-class cruisers. 
While the Congress D-II was initially supposed to be an adjunct to the newer
Avalons, the D-II now threatens to replace it entirely.   While 3 of the
renovated ships have been completed and a fourth is slated to be completed,
the fate of the remaining 4 recovered Congresses remains to be seen.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Congress D-IIa Cruiser
Mass:              760,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                      136,800.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 16)               343,900.00
Lithium Fusion Battery                                               7,600.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4)                                              68.00
Structural Integrity: 75                                            57,000.00
Total Heat Sinks:    2,296 Double                                    1,728.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   7,140.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              1,900.00
Fire Control Computers:                                              8,504.00
Food & Water:  (120 days supply)                                       285.00
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (1,188 total armor pts)         1,140.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                218
   Fore-Left/Right:                  198/198
   Aft-Left/Right:                   198/198
   Aft:                                 178

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (20) with 3 doors                                3,000.00
   Bay 2:  Fighters (20) with 3 doors                                3,000.00
   Bay 3:  Small Craft (2) with 1 door                                 400.00
   Bay 4:  Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                   51,000.00

DropShip Capacity:  2 Docking Hardpoints                             2,000.00
Grav Deck #1:  (90-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Grav Deck #2:  (90-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  40 (7 tons each)                                          280.00
Escape Pods:  40 (7 tons each)                                         280.00

Crew and Passengers:
     54 Officers (54 minimum)                                          540.00
    192 Crew (143 minimum)                                           1,344.00
     79 Gunners (79 minimum)                                           553.00
     60 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals                        420.00
     90 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 AR10 (40 KW, 80 WS)      Nose         *      *      *      *   80  6,200.00
4 NL55                     Nose        22     22     22     22  340  4,400.00
4 ER PPC                   Nose     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 ER PPC                   Nose     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          Nose        --     --     --     --    4     18.00
3 NAC/20(80 rounds)        FL/R        60     60     60     --  360 15,064.00
3 NAC/20(80 rounds)        FL/R        60     60     60     --  360 15,064.00
4 NL55                     FL/R        22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 ER PPC                   FL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   FL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          FL/R        --     --     --     --    8     36.00
3 NAC/20(180 rounds)       L/RBS       60     60     60     --  360 15,144.00
3 NAC/20(180 rounds)       L/RBS       60     60     60     --  360 15,144.00
3 NAC/20(180 rounds)       L/RBS       60     60     60     --  360 15,144.00
2 AR10 (20 KW, 30 WS)      L/RBS        *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 ER PPC                   L/RBS    4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   L/RBS    4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          L/RBS       --     --     --     --    8     36.00
3 NAC/20(180 rounds)       AL/R        60     60     60     --  360 15,144.00
2 AR10 (20 KW, 30 WS)      AL/R         *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 ER PPC                   AL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   AL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          AL/R        --     --     --     --    8     36.00
3 NAC/20(80 rounds)        Aft         60     60     60     --  180  7,532.00
4 ER PPC                   Aft      4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 ER PPC                   Aft      4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          Aft         --     --     --     --    4     18.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (0.25%)                                            1,879.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 4,592     759,889.00
Tons Left:                                                             111.00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        10,187,060,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      232,859
Cost per BV:       43,747.76
Weapon Value:      99,865 (Ratio = .43)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 8,870;  MRV = 8,657;  LRV = 6,634;  ERV = 2,497
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 528,674
                   (68,830 Structure, 194,940 Life Support, 264,904 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 371,498  (70% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable

Billy Boy Mark II

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 911
Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #6 on: 01 June 2019, 02:52:39 »
Just on a quick glance - a Battle Armour Company in the AFFS is 64 troopers - so it'd be more fluff friendly with 64 rather than 60. Probably increasing the number of small craft to at least 8 to carry them and probably another 4 for general duties and gunboats as escorts.

Sorry this seems to be a lot of nitpicks - it's not, I love the design/concept, just trying to get it as fluff friendly as possible. :p

KaiserDunk

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 255
Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #7 on: 01 June 2019, 08:09:49 »
Again, thanks for the feedback.   I'm not so proud of my design that it can brook no change.

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Congress D-IIa Cruiser
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              760,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            703 meters
Sail Diameter:     1,207 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
   12 AR10 Launcher
   12 NL55
   64 ER PPC
   32 AMS
   39 NAC/20
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
   Where House Davion found a small flotilla of mothballed Congress-class
Frigates in unclear, but the Federated Suns shipwrights were not ones to turn
down a chance to increase the firepower of the Federated Suns Navy.   Using
the basic design as a starting point, shipwrights from across the Federated
Suns were dragooned into the project to improve on one of the classic WarShips
of the Star League.   The goal of the project was to keep the major systems of
the Congress as close to the originals while improving the firepower,
protection, and endurance of the ships.   All of this had to be completed as
quickly as possible while other projects were still under way.
   What the teams of shipwrights and aerospace engineers came up with was
nothing short of revolutionary.   The engineers removed the massive cargo bays
of the original to make room for increased fighter bays to allow the Congress
to carry a substantially improved fighter wing and act as a battle carrier. 
The additional weight freed up allowed the engineers to almost quintuple the
fuel supplies and stores for the crew as well as an additional grav wheel,
allowing the renovated ships to patrol for longer periods of time.   A set of
lithium-fusion batteries were also shoehorned into the ship to bring it up to
more modern standards.
   The weight savings also allowed for the shipwrights to place as much
advanced lamellor ferro-carbide armor on the old hull frames as they could
carry.   This has given the Davion Congresses comparable arrmor protection to
some heavy cruisers or battleships and turned the escort frigate into a cruiser
capable of engaging in slugging matches with ships larger than herself.
   The firepower of the vessels was where the engineers focused a great deal
of effort.   Taking the loadout back to basics, the core of the firepower for
the Congress now lies with its massed batteries of Imperator naval
autocannons.   Mounted in a series of triple turrets, the cannons are
well-supplied with ammunition for multiple engagements.   The vessel also
carries several advanced AR10 MVLS launchers with a mix of Killer Whale and
White Shark missiles to provide long-range firepower.   The greatest addition
to the Congress was in the defensive firepower, centered around massed
batteries of ER PPCs and point-defense AMS turrets.   The new layout is tied
together in an advanced network that allows the gunners to better engage
multiple fighters more easily.
   The one major drawback to the emergency program has been its cost, both
financial as well as in the skilled engineers and shipwrights diverted to what
was initially hailed as a quick update.   While the time it took to
manufacture both the armored frame as well as the KF drives was cut to almost
nothing, delays in the upgrades as well as the sheer time it was taking to
complete the project has eaten into resources for the Avalon-class cruisers. 
While the Congress D-II was initially supposed to be an adjunct to the newer
Avalons, the D-II now threatens to replace it entirely.   While 3 of the
renovated ships have been completed and a fourth is slated to be completed,
the fate of the remaining 4 recovered Congresses remains to be seen.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Congress D-IIa Cruiser
Mass:              760,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                      136,800.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 16)               343,900.00
Lithium Fusion Battery                                               7,600.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4)                                              68.00
Structural Integrity: 75                                            57,000.00
Total Heat Sinks:    2,296 Double                                    1,728.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   7,140.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              1,900.00
Fire Control Computers:                                              8,504.00
Food & Water:  (120 days supply)                                       323.50
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (1,188 total armor pts)         1,140.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                218
   Fore-Left/Right:                  198/198
   Aft-Left/Right:                   198/198
   Aft:                                 178

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (20) with 3 doors                                3,000.00
   Bay 2:  Fighters (20) with 3 doors                                3,000.00
   Bay 3:  Small Craft (14) with 2 doors                             2,800.00
   Bay 4:  Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                   48,300.00

DropShip Capacity:  2 Docking Hardpoints                             2,000.00
Grav Deck #1:  (90-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Grav Deck #2:  (90-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  45 (7 tons each)                                          315.00
Escape Pods:  45 (7 tons each)                                         315.00

Crew and Passengers:
     54 Officers (54 minimum)                                          540.00
    192 Crew (143 minimum)                                           1,344.00
     79 Gunners (79 minimum)                                           553.00
     64 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals                        448.00
    150 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 AR10 (40 KW, 80 WS)      Nose         *      *      *      *   80  6,200.00
4 NL55                     Nose        22     22     22     22  340  4,400.00
4 ER PPC                   Nose     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 ER PPC                   Nose     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          Nose        --     --     --     --    4     18.00
3 NAC/20(80 rounds)        FL/R        60     60     60     --  360 15,064.00
3 NAC/20(80 rounds)        FL/R        60     60     60     --  360 15,064.00
4 NL55                     FL/R        22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 ER PPC                   FL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   FL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          FL/R        --     --     --     --    8     36.00
3 NAC/20(180 rounds)       L/RBS       60     60     60     --  360 15,144.00
3 NAC/20(180 rounds)       L/RBS       60     60     60     --  360 15,144.00
3 NAC/20(180 rounds)       L/RBS       60     60     60     --  360 15,144.00
2 AR10 (20 KW, 30 WS)      L/RBS        *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 ER PPC                   L/RBS    4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   L/RBS    4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          L/RBS       --     --     --     --    8     36.00
3 NAC/20(180 rounds)       AL/R        60     60     60     --  360 15,144.00
2 AR10 (20 KW, 30 WS)      AL/R         *      *      *      *   80  5,400.00
4 ER PPC                   AL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 ER PPC                   AL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --  120     56.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          AL/R        --     --     --     --    8     36.00
3 NAC/20(80 rounds)        Aft         60     60     60     --  180  7,532.00
4 ER PPC                   Aft      4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 ER PPC                   Aft      4(40)  4(40)  4(40)     --   60     28.00
4 AMS(192 rounds)          Aft         --     --     --     --    4     18.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (0.28%)                                            2,153.50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 4,592     760,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        10,188,282,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      232,859
Cost per BV:       43,753.01
Weapon Value:      99,865 (Ratio = .43)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 8,870;  MRV = 8,657;  LRV = 6,634;  ERV = 2,497
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 534,247
                   (71,203 Structure, 198,140 Life Support, 264,904 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 371,498  (70% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable
« Last Edit: 01 June 2019, 16:06:56 by KaiserDunk »

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #8 on: 01 June 2019, 10:11:04 »
That's excellent! Thanks! Do you mind if I use this Congress-D II in my timeline?

Ruger

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #9 on: 01 June 2019, 10:13:48 »
Question: do the Davions know about bracket firing in your timeline?

Ruger
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Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #10 on: 01 June 2019, 10:36:50 »
Question: do the Davions know about bracket firing in your timeline?

Ruger

Remind me?

Ruger

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #11 on: 01 June 2019, 11:58:26 »
Remind me?

The ability to increase accuracy of the guns at a penalty to damage when firing a multiple gun turret at a target. At least during the Star League era, only the Star League has this capability.

Ruger
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"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #12 on: 01 June 2019, 12:24:46 »
Hmmmm not sure. Probably something they would be working on developing if they didn't have it!

KaiserDunk

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #13 on: 01 June 2019, 16:01:24 »
That's excellent! Thanks! Do you mind if I use this Congress-D II in my timeline?

Go right ahead.   It will be interesting to see how the Congress D-II fares in combat.   I'd suggest that the D-IIs be named the Hanse Davion, the Ian Davion, and the Black Prince.

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #14 on: 02 June 2019, 05:08:14 »
The "Davions" are already being used for the Avalon Cruisers.

Black Prince is a good idea for a Congress.

KaiserDunk

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #15 on: 02 June 2019, 07:40:37 »
Then go with that naming theme.   How about the Black Prince, the Warrior, the Defence, and the Minotaur for the Congress D-IIs.
« Last Edit: 02 June 2019, 07:42:46 by KaiserDunk »

Ruger

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #16 on: 02 June 2019, 07:55:07 »
Hmmmm not sure. Probably something they would be working on developing if they didn't have it!

IIRC, in the official universe, the only ones to have developed it was the SLDF, and it wasn’t shared with the great houses.

If that was the case in this AU as well, an upgrade would look different than if they did. Smaller bays of larger guns to save on mass when using NAC’s for instance.

The Congress-class frigate is one of those ships I love to modify, but I usually keep both NAC/10’s (but in quad mounts) and the standard number of NAC/30’s. The quad NAC/10’s are for precision bracket fire. I tend to replace the large lasers with triple or quadruple mount NL-45’s (since these have an anti-fighter more now, don’t really need much else for that role), and maybe upgrade the single capital missile tubes to double or triple AR-10’s, maybe with a brace of triple Barracuda tubes on each quarter. Sometimes I fiddle with adding naval Gauss rifles, but not always. Triple, quadruple or bigger AMS turrets go into each arc, depending on what brings it close to he fire control limits.

I also make these into more carrier-like designs with increased fighter complements (108-120 fighters at least).

Ruger
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Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #17 on: 02 June 2019, 12:33:47 »
Then go with that naming theme.   How about the Black Prince, the Warrior, the Defence, and the Minotaur for the Congress D-IIs.


Well they are only building 2 at a time and they take a fair length to build, but yeah I think Black Prince and Warrior might be the first two and Defence and Minotaur are certainly strong names for the next pair.

Hellraiser

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #18 on: 23 June 2019, 15:51:52 »
Love this idea.  I did something similar to the Congress years ago.

I always liked just converting all the NAC10's into NAC30's to simplify logistics & give it more punch.

I'm not sure I'd go full regiment of fighters but I'd definitely give the Block-II at least a full wing of 18 minimum.

NL45 bays in a couple locations to add bracket fire than the NAC30's lack.

Upgrading the Missiles to AR10's seems obvious in later eras, why even bother with old launchers at a certain point really?

Keeping the same Ferro grade armor but maxing it out seems like a good choice  (Can't stick Lamelor on everything after all)

Keep the same LL themed anti-fighter defense but add more of them & use ERLL's/LPLs for the range/accuracy boosts & then sprinkle in bays of 5/9 AMS in any arcs where they will fit.
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Devildocqq

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #19 on: 27 December 2021, 00:57:32 »
Here's my Congress-D Block II

Wrangler

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #20 on: 27 December 2021, 07:39:33 »
Has final design been chosen? I was going to post the this and the carrier on the Fanon Wiki with it's stats and MegaMek file in Wiki's current cloud storage so people can download it and the record sheet.
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #21 on: 28 December 2021, 16:35:15 »
Has final design been chosen? I was going to post the this and the carrier on the Fanon Wiki with it's stats and MegaMek file in Wiki's current cloud storage so people can download it and the record sheet.

I totally forgot the canon wiki was a thing despite me having some cringe articles there myself. It looks like he has chosen (and it is a solid design).

Wrangler

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #22 on: 29 December 2021, 09:09:57 »
Ahhh, so which one was it?  :P
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
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Hellraiser

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #23 on: 29 December 2021, 19:40:56 »
- AFFS doctrine is for a wing of 20 fighters. 

I always love seeing this and then looking at the AFFS Navy.

Davion-1  No
Davion-2  No
Robinson  No
Fox  No
Avalon  No
Congress  No
Capital  No
Conquistador  No
Conquistador "Avalon One"   No
Overlord A3  No
Excalibur PWS  No
Arondight  No

Almost Nothing gets constructed w/ 20 Fighter Bays.

I always preferred the original Davion Sourcebook quote that said the fighter wings were "around" 20 fighters.
Gives you room for the standard 18 like on the Conquistador & also room for odd ball sized units that have an extra Squadron or a Command Flight or are short due a fight because their Transport group only has 2 Overlords & 2 Unions & they run a 16 fighter wing....... etc etc.
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3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Wrangler

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #24 on: 30 December 2021, 07:57:48 »
Vengeance does, it was retro so the ship been around longer, thus everyone gets them.  Construction is different matter, since they won't happen up until after the Jihad.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
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Hellraiser

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Re: Design Challenge - Congress-D II
« Reply #25 on: 31 December 2021, 01:06:36 »
Vengeance does, it was retro so the ship been around longer, thus everyone gets them.  Construction is different matter, since they won't happen up until after the Jihad.

Vengeance isn't a Fed Suns designed ship though, its Terran Hegemony.
I read something somewhere that the extra 4 were to defend the ship while the the 2x 18 fighter wings alternated between attack runs & refuel/rearm period.
It works for a FS 20 wing but it wasn't designed for a FS 20 wing.
The FS designed ships below didn't take any "20" figure into account really.

Which again, is why I like the original "around 20" quote from the HDSB instead of FM:FS where it put it in a chart & "locked it in" as a fixed figure.

My own head cannon has "Around 20" for the "Regimental Wing" as being "Whatever your DS selection will allow" that is "Close to 20".
Since after all, a perfect # of Unions/Overlords/Leopards isn't likely to happen.

Meanwhile the Fleet Wings were "about the same size" as the Regimental Wings.
Easier to then plug those in as 3x Leo CVs and still have some wiggle room if your Fleet has an Intruder or 2 assigned instead of Leo-CVs
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

 

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