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BattleTech Player Boards => Fan Designs and Rules => Aerospace => Topic started by: Giovanni Blasini on 02 May 2020, 22:35:22

Title: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 02 May 2020, 22:35:22
The Niops Association and Interstellar Expeditions have tendered a Request for Proposal (RFP) for a transport DropShuttle of no more than 5000 tons, with a length and width of no more than 82 meters.

Ships should be capable of carrying a mix of industrial mechs, exploration vehicles, and research personnel into unexplored environments with possible hostile wildlife, in support of both the Niops Association and Interstellar Expeditions.  Because of the nature of exploration work, ships should be robust and durable, and capable of protecting themselves both from small fauna and potentially megafauna, with this weaponry doubling to discourage pirate attacks.  These are not, however military landing craft, and do not need to be armed to the same standards as craft like the Union or other similar combat transports.

The Niops Association technological base is currently rebuilding from depletion during the Jihad, and domestic expertise in drive systems is currently equivalent to 2201-2250 Terra, though it is hoped that the next generation of domestic production will meet the standards of 2300 Terra.  As such, any design must conform to this technological base, or use a drive system (and, presumably, spaceframe) readily available on the open market for civilian spacecraft.

It is recommended to start with an existing design as a base, as Interstellar Expeditions and the Niops Association Militia would like to begin fielding the first vessels by 3157, to coincide with the relaunch of their Cruiser class exploration cruiser, but a new design is acceptable if straightforward enough to complete in the same timeframe.

Addendum: Current standard weaponry manufactured by the Niops New Project Workshops are limited to rifle cannons, prototype autocannons, rocket launchers, prototypes of the three standard lasers, blazer cannons and prototype PPCs.  Efforts to resolve quality control issues with the loading mechanisms on LRM and SRM systems have proven problematic for reasons not clearly understood. Standard machine guns and flamers are also available.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: worktroll on 02 May 2020, 23:23:40
I would love to contribute, but The Brighter The Star Enterprises would need to partner with someone with advanced black-navy construction experience (eg. who understands the DS design rules).

Base concept is the Black Eagle, halfway between the primitive & final version. The three cargo decks are allocated as:

- 12 light vehicle bays
- 4 BattleMech bays
- 3rd deck is half infantry bay, suitable for use by PAL-equipped infantry, and half "open plan" - science lab/diplomats/traders/unconventional facilitators, as required.

Two LRM-20s are dropped for a single nose-mounted Arrow IV system with 5 tons ammo, which provides both long-range fire support to ground forces, and anti-aircraft coverage while landed.

Sounds sensible? The Arrow IVs would need to be imported, but The Brighter The Star Enterprises can arrange end-user certificates for same from Magistracy sources.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Sharpnel on 03 May 2020, 12:57:31
I was basing mine on a lengthened Intruder, but Megamek crapped out on mey design. I'll give it another go tomorrow. 3400 tons with dimensions of 75x69x69 and movement of 2/3. SI is higher than the Intruder for added 'durability' and quite bit of armor protection and decent weaponry even if it is all 'primitive'
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 03 May 2020, 14:10:43
Do the rules let you take off and land on 1G worlds at 2/3, though?  I honestly can't remember.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: kindalas on 03 May 2020, 14:25:41
Do the rules let you take off and land on 1G worlds at 2/3, though?  I honestly can't remember.

I want to say no.

But I have no page references just a memory that of 1.5G (technically 1.1G) of thrust should get you off of a 1G planet and the rules not matching that expectation.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 03 May 2020, 15:21:33
I want to say no.

But I have no page references just a memory that of 1.5G (technically 1.1G) of thrust should get you off of a 1G planet and the rules not matching that expectation.

Ditto.  Went back to Total Warfare and found it at the start of page 88: you can't lift off if you have a safe thrust of 2 or less.  Bleh.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 03 May 2020, 16:57:59
I would love to contribute, but The Brighter The Star Enterprises would need to partner with someone with advanced black-navy construction experience (eg. who understands the DS design rules).

Base concept is the Black Eagle, halfway between the primitive & final version. The three cargo decks are allocated as:

- 12 light vehicle bays
- 4 BattleMech bays
- 3rd deck is half infantry bay, suitable for use by PAL-equipped infantry, and half "open plan" - science lab/diplomats/traders/unconventional facilitators, as required.

Two LRM-20s are dropped for a single nose-mounted Arrow IV system with 5 tons ammo, which provides both long-range fire support to ground forces, and anti-aircraft coverage while landed.

Sounds sensible? The Arrow IVs would need to be imported, but The Brighter The Star Enterprises can arrange end-user certificates for same from Magistracy sources.

Something like this?

Black Eagle Brighter the Star/Niops 3155
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 4,500 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tech Base: 2300 equivalent
Mass: 4,500
Battle Value: 3,014
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-X-X
Cost: 257,893,962 C-bills

Fuel: 250 tons (5,357)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 156
Structural Integrity: 16

Armor
    Nose: 188
    Sides: 168/168
    Aft: 120

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Mech (4)                2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Light Vehicle (12)      1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Infantry (Motorized) (14)1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (432.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
    100 rounds of Primitive Prototype LRM 20 ammunition (2 tons)

Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 1
Crew:  5 officers, 18 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 124 bay personnel, 124 passengers      

Notes: Mounts 55 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                         Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (16 Heat)
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon               16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
RS/LS Fwd (34 Heat)
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon               16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Primitive Prototype LRM 20                 12   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)    0(0)  LRM         
    Primitive Prototype LRM 20 Ammo (250 shots)
3 Primitive Prototype Small Laser             6    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
RS/LS Aft (26 Heat)
4 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser           20   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
3 Primitive Prototype Small Laser             6    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
Aft (20 Heat)
4 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser           20   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
   
Features the following design quirks: Easy to Maintain, Obsolete

Notes: Swapped out the guns for the primitive prototype versions, to represent Niops still getting their crap together in terms of their technology base.  Well, except for the Arrow IVs, of course.  Used Primitive DropShip rules and set the year at 3100, which required dropping from 4/6 to 3/5 due to the heavier mass per thrust point at that tech base.  Swapped twin large lasers for single blazer cannons.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: worktroll on 03 May 2020, 17:51:25
Pretty much. I'm assuming they decided against the Arrow IV for self-sufficiency? Pity, they're only tiny weenie nucs ...
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 03 May 2020, 18:01:07
Pretty much. I'm assuming they decided against the Arrow IV for self-sufficiency? Pity, they're only tiny weenie nucs ...

&)*@($#*@#$ MegaMekLab.  Wiped out that bay when I had to switch from Advanced to Experimental, evidently.

One second.  Although, that said, tube artillery like Thumpers and Snipers go back to Early Spaceflight era, right?

Black Eagle Brighter the Star/Niops 3155
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 4,500 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 2300
Mass: 4,500
Battle Value: 3,404
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-X
Cost: 270,493,962 C-bills

Fuel: 250 tons (5,357)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 156
Structural Integrity: 16

Armor
    Nose: 188
    Sides: 168/168
    Aft: 120

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Mech (4)                2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Light Vehicle (12)      1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Infantry (Motorized) (14)1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (412.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
    25 rounds of Arrow IV ammunition (1 tons),
    100 rounds of Primitive Prototype LRM 20 ammunition (20 tons)

Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 1
Crew:  5 officers, 18 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 124 bay personnel, 124 passengers      

Notes: Mounts 55 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                         Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (26 Heat)
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon               16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
1 Arrow IV                                   10    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Artillery   
    Arrow IV Ammo (125 shots)
RS/LS Fwd (34 Heat)
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon               16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
2 Primitive Prototype LRM 20                 12   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)    0(0)  LRM         
    Primitive Prototype LRM 20 Ammo (250 shots)
3 Primitive Prototype Small Laser             6    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
RS/LS Aft (26 Heat)
4 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser           20   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
3 Primitive Prototype Small Laser             6    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
Aft (20 Heat)
4 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser           20   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
   

Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: worktroll on 03 May 2020, 18:02:57
Works for me! Thanks for the assist. Very much a 'jack of all trades' vehicle, but fits the RFP.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Daryk on 03 May 2020, 18:15:45
Good news everyone!  :)

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63188.0
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: kindalas on 03 May 2020, 18:17:56
Good news everyone!  :)

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63188.0

This makes me very happy.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 03 May 2020, 18:27:07
That is good news.  Doesn't leave a lot of thrust margin for 2/3 ships, but that's certainly sufficient for them to take off and land, but it's within the realm of possibility under the rules now.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: worktroll on 04 May 2020, 00:02:09
However, what if the planet is more than 1G? I'd feel safer allowing more margin for error.

Hey, I work in Risk, I'm a big fan of contingency planning.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 04 May 2020, 00:23:47
However, what if the planet is more than 1G? I'd feel safer allowing more margin for error.

Hey, I work in Risk, I'm a big fan of contingency planning.

Contingency planning is good.

Oh, and I made a couple other tweaks, after working on a couple other designs for this project:

Code: [Select]
Black Eagle Brighter the Star/Niops 3155
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 4,500 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 2300
Mass: 4,500
Battle Value: 3,252
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-X
Cost: 279,397,962 C-bills

Fuel: 250 tons (5,357)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 156
Structural Integrity: 16

Armor
    Nose: 188
    Sides: 168/168
    Aft: 120

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Mech (4)                2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Light Vehicle (8)       2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Infantry (Motorized) (14)1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (2)             2 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (391.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
    240 rounds of LRM 10 ammunition (2 tons),
    20 rounds of Prototype Arrow IV ammunition (1 tons)

Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 1
Crew:  5 officers, 7 gunners, 108 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 55 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                          Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (26 Heat)
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon      16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
1 Prototype Arrow IV                10    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Artillery   
    Prototype Arrow IV Ammo (80 shots)
RS/LS Fwd (38 Heat)
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon      16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
3 Primitive Prototype Small Laser    6    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
4 LRM 10                            16   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)    0(0)  LRM         
    LRM 10 Ammo (1440 shots)
RS/LS Aft (26 Heat)
4 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser  20   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
3 Primitive Prototype Small Laser    6    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
Aft (20 Heat)
4 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser  20   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser             
   
Instead of LRM-20s, I went for double the number of LRM-10s.  Also, a prototype Arrow IV, which we could argue is the result of importing domestic tooling, or just Niops having trouble fitting it and kludging the feed mechanisms.  Also cut down to two platoons of infantry and 8 vehicles, but added in two aerospace fighter berths.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: worktroll on 04 May 2020, 00:40:52
For the stated purpose, that works.

Can you fit in a 100-ton small craft into an AS bay? Just wondering.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 04 May 2020, 00:45:45
Legally? No. But you could cut cargo down to a still-decent 291 tons, and change those fighter bays to small craft ones.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: worktroll on 04 May 2020, 01:04:51
Nah, it was just an idle thought. It's a drop-shuttle, and can manage pretty much whatever a small craft might be called on to do.

(Except making the Kessel run ...)
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Sharpnel on 04 May 2020, 01:52:47
I will no longer be submitting as you have seemed to design your own fine piece of work
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 04 May 2020, 02:08:41
I will no longer be submitting as you have seemed to design your own fine piece of work

While I can appreciate what a pain in the neck DropShips and capital-scale craft can be to build in MML, I would've loved to see what you had in mind with the Intruder, if you're still game for it.  The Black Eagle was just putting Worktroll's ideas down on paper, and just like Cannonshop, there's no guarantee I'd just end up using only one of the designs in my story.

That said, I appreciate you taking the time either way, and you have my sympathies with your MegaMekLab difficulties.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: worktroll on 04 May 2020, 04:21:07
Sharpnel, give it a go. I just riffed off the fluff text.
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Dragon Cat on 04 May 2020, 07:44:39
Cool ideas here I like the idea of the tube artillery over the arrows purely personal choice

I'd also likely drop the fighters instead go with 3 light vehicle bays on top of the craft replacing each fighter for 6 VTOL to help exploration. My reasoning being if the cruiser is above pirates arent going to get involved and if it's a proper WarShip you're in too much trouble already
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Sharpnel on 04 May 2020, 07:50:00
Sharpnel, give it a go. I just riffed off the fluff text/

I'll give it a whirl...

Project Seamus is the brainchild of Doctor Siddhartha 'Sid' Barrett of Fly By Night Industries and is a conversion of the Union that is slightly smaller than the original model. It is still 78 meters tall from landing struts to nose cone while the diameter of the ship has been shaved to 80 meters. In order to deal with the potential adverss conditions it could end up in, the structural integrity has been nearly doubled. Seventy-five tons of primitive aerospace armor is mounted giving these DropShips adequate protection. The fighter deck has been converted to accommodate a drone hangar (starboard) and dedicated science labs (port). The science labs are designed to handle Level 4 Biohazards with the old hangar door to be used as an emergency vent should things go awry.

To deal with potential hostile threats the Seamus, the armament load is loosely based on the Intruder-class DropShip. With the exception of the Blazer cannons and the machineguns, all weapons aare primitive versions of once standard weapons. Two AC/10s are mounted in the nose with a total of ten tons of ammunition. A total of five AC/5 autocannons are mounted sides with a total of twelve tons of ammunition. Sixteen small lasers and six machine guns provide the point defense, with the machine guns doubling as anti-infantry weapons when the ship is grounded. Doctor Barrett has tentatively named the two proposed vessels, Ummagumma (painted dark red with all access point painted neon yellow) and Jacob's Ladder (painted a royal blue with all access points painted neon orange).


Code: [Select]
Project Seamus Dropship
Type: Military Spheroid
Mass: 3,500 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3155
Mass: 3,500
Battle Value: 4,130
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-X-X
Cost: 280,147,680 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 80
    Width: 80
    Height: 78

Fuel: 220 tons (6,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 150
Structural Integrity: 20

Armor (75 tons of Primitive Aerospace Armor)
    Nose: 242
    Sides: 210/210
    Aft: 210

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Mech (4)                1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Drone Bay/Science Labs (2)             2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Light Vehicle (8)       1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (Liquid) (10.0 tons) 0 Door   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (Insulated) (10.0 tons) 0 Door   
    Bay 6:  Cargo (Refrigerated) (14.5 tons) 0 Door   
    Bay 7:  Cargo (51.0 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
    180 rounds of Primitive Prototype Autocannon/5 ammunition (12 tons),
    80 rounds of Primitive Prototype Autocannon/10 ammunition (10 tons),
    1,200 rounds of Machine Gun ammunition (6 tons)

Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 4
Crew:  4 officers, 8 enlisted/non-rated, 8 gunners, 48 bay personnel, 20 passengers, 7 marines, 7 BA marines

Notes: Mounts 75 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                                Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                          Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (58 Heat)
2 Primitive Prototype Autocannon/10                  6   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)  AC         
    Primitive Prototype Autocannon/10 Ammo (80 shots)
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon                      26   3(26)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    2 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon                      26   3(26)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    2 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser
RW/LW (28 Heat)
2 Primitive Prototype Autocannon/5                   2   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)    0(0)  AC         
    Primitive Prototype Autocannon/5 Ammo (75 shots)
1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon                      26   3(26)   2(16)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    2 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser
Aft (21 Heat)
4 Primitive Prototype Medium Laser                  20   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
1 Primitive Prototype Autocannon/5                   1    1(5)    1(5)    0(0)    0(0)  AC         
    Primitive Prototype Autocannon/5 Ammo (450 shots)
6 Machine Gun                                        0   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (1200 shots)
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 04 May 2020, 16:34:11
I like that, just one question: should it be based on the Buccaneer class with, say, folding wings or something instead, since it's an aerodyne, not a spheroid?
Title: Re: RFP-3155a: New Transport/Landing DropShuttle for Niops/Interstellar Expeditions
Post by: Sharpnel on 04 May 2020, 19:46:49
It's based on the Union so should be a spheroid. I will fix that.