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Author Topic: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship  (Read 1411 times)

wolfgar

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Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« on: 27 November 2021, 22:04:38 »
Alright, so in trying to make adjustments to the bug eye recon ship i've found some things, the first thing being that just ****** no, the design was so damn broken that it doesn't work, as a 6100 ton jump capable ship.

Edit: i take back the above, it can be rebuilt, and to spec or slightly better on the weaponry, but it just sucks all the same and the cost comparison is insane.

Code: (Bug eye rebuilt) [Select]
Bug Eye rebuilt Jumpship
Mass: 6,100 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 6,100
Battle Value: 5,349
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 3,439,631,852 C-bills

Fuel: 94 tons (940)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 3
Heat Sinks: 300 (600)
Structural Integrity: 20

Armor
    Nose: 3
    Fore Sides: 2/2
    Aft Sides: 2/2
    Aft: 2

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (83.0 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  10 officers, 37 enlisted/non-rated, 8 gunners

Notes: Equipped with
    1 Satellite Imager [Infrared Imager]
    1 Satellite Imager [High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Imager]
    1 Satellite Imager [Look-Down Radar]
    1 Satellite Imager [Hyperspectral Imager]
1.5 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:           Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)     Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (74 Heat)
2 ER PPC       30   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)     0(0)   PPC         
2 Large Laser  16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
FRS/FLS (74 Heat)
2 ER PPC       30   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)     0(0)   PPC         
2 Large Laser  16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
RBS/LBS (74 Heat)
2 ER PPC       30   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)     0(0)   PPC         
2 Large Laser  16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
ARS/ALS (74 Heat)
2 ER PPC       30   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)     0(0)   PPC         
2 Large Laser  16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
Aft (74 Heat)
2 ER PPC       30   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)     0(0)   PPC         
2 Large Laser  16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS    14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         




 It can work as a dropship, and the minimum weight of a warship is 100K-tons which it will work as. so i did both builds, with a little extra. so give them a look.



Code: (BugEye warship) [Select]

Bug-Eye Surveillance Ship Remade

Mass: 100,000 tons

Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)

Introduced: 3145

Mass: 100,000

Battle Value: 18,987

Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F

Cost: 9,619,652,800 C-bills



Fuel: 100 tons (1,000)

Safe Thrust: 5

Maximum Thrust: 8

Sail Integrity: 3

KF Drive Integrity: 4

Heat Sinks: 530 (1060)

Structural Integrity: 150



Armor

    Nose: 81

    Fore Sides: 69/69

    Aft Sides: 63/63

    Aft: 45



Cargo

    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors 

    Bay 2:  Fighter (6)             2 Doors 

    Bay 3:  Cargo (2196.5 tons)     1 Door   



Ammunition:

    None



Dropship Capacity: 1

Grav Decks: 0

Escape Pods: 20

Life Boats: 5

Crew:  50 officers, 110 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 32 bay personnel, 20 BA marines       



Notes: Equipped with

    lithium-fusion battery system

    1 Satellite Imager [Infrared Imager]

    1 Satellite Imager [High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Imager]

    1 Satellite Imager [Look-Down Radar]

    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)

    300 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.



Weapons:         Capital Attack Values (Standard)

Arc (Heat)   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class     

Nose (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

FRS/FLS (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

RBS/LBS (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

ARS/ALS (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

Aft (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

   




Code: (BugEye Dropship) [Select]

Bug Eye Dropship Dropship

Type: Military Aerodyne

Mass: 6,100 tons

Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)

Introduced: 3145

Mass: 6,100

Battle Value: 7,852

Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E

Cost: 590,010,336 C-bills



Fuel: 94 tons (2,820)

Safe Thrust: 5

Maximum Thrust: 8

Heat Sinks: 100 (200)

Structural Integrity: 20



Armor

    Nose: 488

    Sides: 411/411

    Aft: 332



Cargo

    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   

    Bay 2:  Fighter (2)             1 Door   

    Bay 3:  Cargo (2165.5 tons)     1 Door   



Ammunition:

    None



Escape Pods: 5

Life Boats: 0

Crew:  4 officers, 6 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 14 bay personnel, 10 BA marines       



Notes: Mounts 90 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.



Weapons:                 Capital Attack Values (Standard)

Arc (Heat)           Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class     

Nose (128 Heat)

2 Heavy PPC          30   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC       

2 Large Pulse Laser  20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser

2 Large Pulse Laser  20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser

2 Heavy PPC          30   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

RW/LW (28 Heat)

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

Aft (128 Heat)

2 Large Pulse Laser  20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser

2 Large Pulse Laser  20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser

2 Heavy PPC          30   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC       

2 Heavy PPC          30   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

   






thoughts would be appreciated
« Last Edit: 27 November 2021, 22:24:55 by wolfgar »
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Daryk

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #1 on: 27 November 2021, 22:34:26 »
I think it's a LOT heavy on offensive weaponry, and I"m not sure the AMS requires gunners.

Electronics-wise, if you have a Hyperspectral Imager (which I'm not sure is actually available to the OG Star League), you shouldn't need IR or Hi-Res ones.  It should definitely have at least a Small NCSS, though.  A Large probably doesn't fit.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #2 on: 28 November 2021, 04:29:16 »
That’s a whole lot of Laser AMS for a ship designed centuries before Laser AMS existed, resulting in double heat sinks becoming excessive and eating any weight you would have for a naval comm-scanner suite, which was the whole point of the ship.
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Daryk

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #3 on: 28 November 2021, 04:49:59 »
Hmmm... checking Sarna, it IS supposed to be a Large NCSS.  To Excel!  8)
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #4 on: 28 November 2021, 06:11:24 »
Indeed.  Hence the full stats in ISP3, courtesy of Cray.
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Daryk

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #5 on: 28 November 2021, 07:26:42 »
OK, I can see how Cray did it, but I made a few tweaks.  Dropping the SI to 15 gets you enough tons to actually install Life Boats without impacting the free armor granted by it.  The freed up tonnage also allows a more realistic 15 tons of actual armor (for another 2 points per facing for 4 total).  I threw 10 tons at upgrading the CO and XO quarters, dedicated 54 tons to consumables (for 180 day endurance), and rounded out the fuel at 100 tons even.  That leaves 4.5 tons of "discretionary" cargo, all for the low, low price of 6,927,009,000 (assuming I applied the Sub-Compact multiplier to all (and ONLY) the right components):

Code: [Select]
Bugeye
Tonnage 6,100.0
Thrust 1,830.0 (5/8)
Fuel   100.0 (35.5 Burn Days)
Pumps     2.0
SI    91.5 (15 SI provides 2 free points of armor per facing)
KF Drive 3,050.0 (3 KF Integrity)
Sail    31.0 (3 Sail Integrity)
Controls    16.0
Base Crew Quarters   235.0 (47 Base Crew)
Heat Sinks     0.0 (105 Free Single HS)
Armor    15.0 (12 Standard Points: 2 per facing, 4 total per facing with SI)
AC/20    14.0 (Aft)
AC/20 Ammo     2.0
Large Lasers    10.0 (1 each Side)
PPC     7.0 (Nose)
Large NCSS   500.0 (12 additional crew)
Gunner     5.0 (1 required)
NCSS Operators    60.0 (from above)
Doors     0.0 (2 total: 1 Cargo, 1 Personnel)
Upgrade CO/XO cabins    10.0 (2 Officer Quarters; they share a "Jack and Jill" head)
Life Boats    63.0 (9 Life Boats)
Consumables    54.0 (180 Crew Days; 1 Crew Day = 60/200)
Cargo     4.5
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wolfgar

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #6 on: 28 November 2021, 09:27:22 »
Did a rebuild of it with what it should have available, (the other one you'll note is dated 3145) but you have to drop the Naval comms scanner down to a small to make everything fit

Code: [Select]
Bug-Eye Surveillance Ship (Standard)
Mass: 6,100 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 2620
Mass: 6,100
Battle Value: 1,273
Tech Rating/Availability: E/E-X-E-F
Cost: 3,510,042,668 C-bills

Fuel: 96 tons (960)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 3
Heat Sinks: 105
Structural Integrity: 20

Armor
    Nose: 3
    Fore Sides: 2/2
    Aft Sides: 2/2
    Aft: 2

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (257.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
    30 rounds of AC/20 ammunition (1 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  15 officers, 68 enlisted/non-rated, 8 gunners, 12 passengers

Notes: Equipped with
    1 Satellite Imager [Infrared Imager]
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small)
    1 Satellite Imager [High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Imager]
    1 Satellite Imager [Look-Down Radar]
1 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                   Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)             Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (10 Heat)
1 PPC                  10   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)     0(0)   PPC         
RBS/LBS (8 Heat)
1 Large Laser           8    1(8)    1(8)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
Aft (7 Heat)
1 AC/20                 7   2(20)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AC         
    AC/20 Ammo (30 shots)


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Daryk

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #7 on: 28 November 2021, 11:58:40 »
A Small NCSS has a Hi-Res Imager built in... feel free to reclaim those tons, at least.

A Large NCSS extends the range of the Hi-Res to 2,000km, btw...  ^-^
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wolfgar

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #8 on: 28 November 2021, 13:24:52 »
doesn't free up the tonnage necessary for the large comm scanner though, which is 500tons versus the small's 100 tons.

and they lose a lot of tonnage to bunking regardless, i still think the dropship version is more viable
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Daryk

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #9 on: 28 November 2021, 13:32:48 »
I'm really not sure where all your tons went.  I accounted for mine in the list above, and it seems we came out with radically different results.
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wolfgar

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #10 on: 30 November 2021, 22:14:06 »
probably the quarters and staff needed for the ship, check those, as that and cargo are where i usually lose odd tonnage
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #11 on: 30 November 2021, 23:03:44 »
Quote from: wolfgar on 30 November 2021, 22:14:06
probably the quarters and staff needed for the ship, check those, as that and cargo are where i usually lose odd tonnage

I'm guessing you're using full-size quarters?
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #12 on: 30 November 2021, 23:42:06 »
Also, side note:

Quote from: wolfgar on 27 November 2021, 22:04:38
Code: (BugEye warship) [Select]

Bug-Eye Surveillance Ship Remade

Mass: 100,000 tons

Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)

Introduced: 3145

Mass: 100,000

Battle Value: 18,987

Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F

Cost: 9,619,652,800 C-bills



Fuel: 100 tons (1,000)

Safe Thrust: 5

Maximum Thrust: 8

Sail Integrity: 3

KF Drive Integrity: 4

Heat Sinks: 530 (1060)

Structural Integrity: 150



Armor

    Nose: 81

    Fore Sides: 69/69

    Aft Sides: 63/63

    Aft: 45



Cargo

    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors 

    Bay 2:  Fighter (6)             2 Doors 

    Bay 3:  Cargo (2196.5 tons)     1 Door   



Ammunition:

    None



Dropship Capacity: 1

Grav Decks: 0

Escape Pods: 20

Life Boats: 5

Crew:  50 officers, 110 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 32 bay personnel, 20 BA marines       



Notes: Equipped with

    lithium-fusion battery system

    1 Satellite Imager [Infrared Imager]

    1 Satellite Imager [High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Imager]

    1 Satellite Imager [Look-Down Radar]

    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)

    300 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.



Weapons:         Capital Attack Values (Standard)

Arc (Heat)   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class     

Nose (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

FRS/FLS (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

RBS/LBS (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

ARS/ALS (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

Aft (132 Heat)

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

2 Laser AMS  14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       

3 ER PPC     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   PPC       


This is just a higher tech Nightwing that sacrifices firepower and endurance for acceleration it can't use with so little fuel.


Quote
Code: (BugEye Dropship) [Select]

Bug Eye Dropship Dropship

Type: Military Aerodyne

Mass: 6,100 tons

Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)

Introduced: 3145

Mass: 6,100

Battle Value: 7,852

Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E

Cost: 590,010,336 C-bills



Fuel: 94 tons (2,820)

Safe Thrust: 5

Maximum Thrust: 8

Heat Sinks: 100 (200)

Structural Integrity: 20



Armor

    Nose: 488

    Sides: 411/411

    Aft: 332



Cargo

    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   

    Bay 2:  Fighter (2)             1 Door   

    Bay 3:  Cargo (2165.5 tons)     1 Door   



Ammunition:

    None



Escape Pods: 5

Life Boats: 0

Crew:  4 officers, 6 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 14 bay personnel, 10 BA marines       



Notes: Mounts 90 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.



Weapons:                 Capital Attack Values (Standard)

Arc (Heat)           Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class     

Nose (128 Heat)

2 Heavy PPC          30   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC       

2 Large Pulse Laser  20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser

2 Large Pulse Laser  20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser

2 Heavy PPC          30   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

RW/LW (28 Heat)

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

Aft (128 Heat)

2 Large Pulse Laser  20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser

2 Large Pulse Laser  20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser

2 Heavy PPC          30   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC       

2 Heavy PPC          30   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)  PPC       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

2 Laser AMS          14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS       

   





And this is just a half-size modern Pueblo class.

Lastly, the published Bug-Eye stats have one small issue that I've seen trying to plug them into MegaMekLab: it says that the crew needs to be 66 minimum, which appears to include the naval comm-scanner crew, but that also tips the number of officers needed to 10.  Even with steerage quarters, that puts me 30 tons over.  I don't remember crewing requirements changing at any point, so I'm not sure what's up.
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"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
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  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Rebuilding the Bug Eye Surveillance Ship
« Reply #13 on: 01 December 2021, 04:15:32 »
Cray didn't add any officers for the NCSS crew, and I dare say that follows the RAW exactly.  RAW only says to base the number of officers on base crew and gunners.
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