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Author Topic: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!  (Read 670 times)

Cannonshop

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Mission: a small craft, optimized for life in the outer belts, designed for asteroid prospectors and miners.

Needed: Ample space for mission equipment.  Comfort is tertiary to completely unimportant, but this is a smallcraft designed to be lived in by a tiny crew for weeks, or even months.

Fluff elements to find a rules equivalent for:

1. Mission podding for mission equipment, ranging from mining equipment to warheads.
2. Dismountable, remote-pilot capable, engine pack-a mining singleship lands/docks on a rock, the engines are buried in with thrusters, connected with cables, and the whole thing (comet or asteroid) is 'flown' to where it's going to be processed, and the pinnace is reassembled while the 'breaking crew' works over prepping the rock or comet for processing.

3. this means, yes, the engine should be grossly overpowered for the 'clean' size of the singleship/pinnace.

4. landing gear is optional  in nullgee, flying close enough formation to grapple the target is enough.

Crew should be between 1 and 4 people.

so get creative guys.  FLOG them construction rules!!
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
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and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Wereling

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #1 on: 15 October 2021, 12:37:44 »
I'm not well versed in aerospace construction rules, but here's my best shot:

Code: [Select]
Black Star Mining Tug
Type: Civilian Spheriod
Mass: 200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 200
Battle Value: 200
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-X-F
Cost: 13,022,440 C-bills

Fuel: 22 tons (1,760)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Heat Sinks: 10
Structural Integrity: 11

Armor
    Nose: 20
    Sides: 18/18
    Aft: 15

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (20.0 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 1
Crew:  1 officer, 3 enlisted/non-rated, 4 passengers

Notes: Mounts 4 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

Weapons
and Ammo                                Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Recon Camera                             Aft R      0.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Satellite Imager                          Nose      7.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Refueling Drogue/Fluid Suction System     Nose      1.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Recon Camera                             Fwd R      0.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Recon Camera                             Fwd L      0.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Recon Camera                             Aft L      0.5      -      -    -    -    - 
Communications Equipment (1 ton)          Hull      1.0      -      -    -    -    - 

The crew size is 5, largely because I am unable to include any additional communications equipment (more about that in a moment) without increasing the crew size by 1. I went with standard crew quarters and devoted more than 10 percent of the mass of the vessel to fuel, assuming that it would take a massive amount to push around a rock heavier than the vessel that's providing the motive force.

The communications equipment serves as a placeholder for a "link" system allowing multiple Black Stars to work together. I figured that similar to a C3 system they could allow a group of 4 or so Black Stars to coordinate their thrust to move larger rocks. I also thought that might have some fun implications within fiction if you chose to use it.

The Hyperspectral Imager is included as a set of sensors to perform spectral analysis on prospective rocks to determine which ones are likely to be profitable. If I were to design a variant to this, these would be designed to work in teams of 4, with three of these and 1 that has its imager replaced with the master control system for thrust coordination. Since a Aerospace Smart Robotic Control system is 10 tons and 1) military hardware, and 2) robotic rather than a remote control, I figure devoting 1 ton per regular vessel and 8.5 tons to the "control" vessel seems like a reasonable way to go. In addition I included recon cameras as a placeholder for high resolution imagers to identify rocks to analyze. .

I did go out of my way to include steerage space for another crew. Given that these will be operating in teams well away (perhaps weeks away) from rescue, the ability to bring in survivors from an accident and have some place to put them seemed important. Likewise I figure the mass devoted to steerage can reflect additional storage space for things like crew rations and electronics spares.

I did NOT include an additional lifeboat. This largely comes down to "lowest bidder" thinking. Steerage space can be used for storage. A lifeboat really can't. Do with that what you will.

Lastly I included a single cargo bay with a 20-ton capacity. There's a lot you can do with that space. One thought I had was for a "battle armor" bay that could be used to carry micro-gravity capable exoskeletons for EVA use. Another is a "tanker" that uses the included refueling drogue and liquid storage to top off other Black Stars while they work.

Let me know how I did! I'm interested in the aerospace rules, but have very little experience with them.
   
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 12:45:54 by Wereling »

Daryk

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #2 on: 15 October 2021, 19:51:09 »
I will definitely come back to this once I've had some sleep...

Daryk

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #3 on: 16 October 2021, 05:53:31 »
Ok, I'm just going for the base model here, and it struck me that it SHOULD be able to mount a Naval Tug Adaptor.  Unfortunately, the extra 10% of mass can only be obtained by dropping the engine down to 3/5.  So I settled for "just" 100 tons of modular cargo.  Like Wereling, I believe one more ton of Communications Equipment is warranted (which raises the minimum crew to 4).  The installed fuel is a little anemic, but I figure 100 tons of cargo covereth a multitude of sins.  I put enough armor on so that a single 20-point hit won't destroy the craft (the SI adds to the armor on each facing), and limited my Fractional Accounting to the SI and pumps.  I figured 8 months of consumables was sufficient (assuming some of the cargo is fuel).  It comes in a bit under 5.8M C-Bills.
Code: [Select]
Spheroid Small Craft
Prospector Tons Cost
Tonnage 200 x5 Multiplier
Controls   1.5   562,000
Crew Quarters 20    20,000 4xSteerage
Life Support   0    20,000
Sensors   0    80,000
6 SI   2.4   300,000
Att. Thrusters   0    25,000
Landing Gear   0     2,000
4/6 52    56,000 Engine and Drive Unit
Fuel Tanks   5     1,000
Fuel Pumps   0.10         0
Armor   4    40,000 64 (16 per facing)
9 Heat Sinks   0    18,000
Comms Gear   1    30,000
Modular Cargo 100         0
Consumables   5         0 250 Man-days
Subtotal 200 1,154,000
Total 5,770,000

wolfgar

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #4 on: 16 October 2021, 17:47:31 »
The cargo version of the HRN-10 Harrington would do this well as well, 50 ton cargo bay and a 5 ton infantry section that could be designated suit storage, as well as the standard housing, should work well
Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

Daryk

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #5 on: 16 October 2021, 18:07:18 »
How many C-Bills for that one?

wolfgar

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #6 on: 16 October 2021, 19:23:14 »
Code: [Select]
here full look

]code=HRN-10 Harrington class transport shuttle]
HRN-10 "Harrington" Transport Shuttle
Type: Military Aerodyne
Mass: 200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 2800
Mass: 200
Battle Value: 520
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-D-D
Cost: 9,580,200 C-bills

Fuel: 10 tons (800)
Safe Thrust: 6
Maximum Thrust: 9
Heat Sinks: 10 (20)
Structural Integrity: 10

Armor
    Nose: 52
    Sides: 50/50
    Aft: 48

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (55.0 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  1 officer, 2 enlisted/non-rated

Notes: Mounts 10 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons
and Ammo              Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
None


Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

Daryk

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #7 on: 16 October 2021, 19:51:34 »
Kind of steep, but I see it's got quite the engine!  :thumbsup:

wolfgar

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #8 on: 17 October 2021, 11:51:23 »
in all honesty what its designed role is for fast landing light vehicles and the infantry to go inside them.

Code: (HRN-10 Harrington Grounding Shuttle) [Select]
HRN-10 "Harrington" Grounding transport
Type: Military Aerodyne
Mass: 200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 2800
Mass: 200
Battle Value: 740
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-D-D
Cost: 12,451,120 C-bills

Fuel: 6 tons (480)
Safe Thrust: 6
Maximum Thrust: 9
Heat Sinks: 10 (20)
Structural Integrity: 15

Armor
    Nose: 75
    Sides: 72/72
    Aft: 65

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Light Vehicle (1)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  1 officer, 2 enlisted/non-rated, 5 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 14 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons
and Ammo              Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
None


Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

Daryk

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #9 on: 17 October 2021, 14:20:39 »
15 SI? ???

That's some pretty expensive armor there.  I'd probably drop some of that for a gunner (one more crew), a few weapons, and the actual armor to make up for it...  ^-^

And since it has no weapons, the DHS are an unnecessary expense...  It could easily be less than 10M C-bills...

DevianID

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #10 on: 24 October 2021, 20:55:16 »
So my take is the logical 'workhorse' design.  It is as small/cheap as possible, and goes 2/3 as maneuvering at more than 1 g is kinda a no-no for civilians as it wrecks their bodies for no real gain.  It has 34.5 tons of fuel on a 100 ton design for 18 burn days plus a bit in the tank for landing/refueling.  Crew of 3 in steerage bunks with 4 tons of crew cargo supplies for extended deployment.  2x10 cargo pods complete the design.  These pods would be modular for transporting non-bulk items, good for 2 first class passengers, a refueling/fluid suction system for gas mining a gas giant or interstellar dust field, infantry transport, 2 space mine dispensers, or even 2 10 ton cargo bays for launching 2 alamo missile space torpedoes (strictly for asteroid destruction, of course hehe).  3.2 million c-bills, so you can put over 20 of these out for the price of one 1900 ton cargo manatee, which itself is one of the cheapest dropships.

Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level
Era
Experimental
-
Advanced
-
Standard
3145+
Tech Rating: D/X-X-X-D  Weight: 100 tons BV: 456 Cost: 3,216,114 C-bills  Movement: 2/3 Heat Sinks: 4 Fuel Points: 0/2760 (34.5 tons) Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84  Structural Integrity: 3 Armor: 180

Armor

Nose
54

Left Side
45

Right Side
45

Aft
36

   
Equipment
Loc

Cargo Container (10 tons)
HULL

Cargo Container (10 tons)
HULL

 Carrying Capacity Cargo Space (1 door) - 4 tons   
Crew

Officers
1
Enlisted/Non-rated
2
Gunners
0
Bay Personnel
0

Edit: The tug rules for small craft only allow tugging small craft sized objects for the 120 ton tug adaptor available to 200 ton small craft.  My first thought was a tug design to push a rock around, but you need a dropship for any real sized rocks, as most rocks in the asteroid belt are trillions of tons, so dropping the 120 ton tug budget I get the 100 ton workhorse.  As for being 'over engined', I felt 2/3 was plenty fast, and scaled to a big rock moving .01g for 2/3 base engine or .03g for a 6/9 base engine makes no real difference over time--fuel is more important so I got gobs of it.
« Last Edit: 24 October 2021, 21:16:21 by DevianID »

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #11 on: 28 October 2021, 00:22:57 »
Ok, I'm just going for the base model here, and it struck me that it SHOULD be able to mount a Naval Tug Adaptor.  Unfortunately, the extra 10% of mass can only be obtained by dropping the engine down to 3/5.  So I settled for "just" 100 tons of modular cargo.  Like Wereling, I believe one more ton of Communications Equipment is warranted (which raises the minimum crew to 4).  The installed fuel is a little anemic, but I figure 100 tons of cargo covereth a multitude of sins.  I put enough armor on so that a single 20-point hit won't destroy the craft (the SI adds to the armor on each facing), and limited my Fractional Accounting to the SI and pumps.  I figured 8 months of consumables was sufficient (assuming some of the cargo is fuel).  It comes in a bit under 5.8M C-Bills.

Naval Tug Adapters are brutal on a small craft.  The 20% of mass is one thing, but the adapter itself is 100 tons on top of that:

Code: [Select]
New Dropship
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 200
Battle Value: 260
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 6,670,400 C-bills

Fuel: 20 tons (1,600)
Safe Thrust: 2
Maximum Thrust: 3
Heat Sinks: 6
Structural Integrity: 5

Armor
    Nose: 25
    Sides: 25/25
    Aft: 25

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (10.0 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  3 officers

Notes: Mounts 5 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons
and Ammo              Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Naval Tug Adaptor       Nose     120.0     -      -    -    -    - 


Honestly, I'd probably forgo a small craft in this role and go with a knockoff of the Hoshiryokou.
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DevianID

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #12 on: 28 October 2021, 00:31:03 »
Quote
Naval Tug Adapters are brutal on a small craft.

The 120 ton problem is compounded by the fact that small craft tugs are limited to 200 ton or less of tug space, while dropships have no such limit.  Thats why I ditched the tug entirely for a 100 ton super cheap workhorse with modular cargo bays and lots of fuel.

Cannonshop

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #13 on: 28 October 2021, 08:51:16 »
Naval Tug Adapters are brutal on a small craft.  The 20% of mass is one thing, but the adapter itself is 100 tons on top of that:

Code: [Select]
New Dropship
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 200
Battle Value: 260
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 6,670,400 C-bills

Fuel: 20 tons (1,600)
Safe Thrust: 2
Maximum Thrust: 3
Heat Sinks: 6
Structural Integrity: 5

Armor
    Nose: 25
    Sides: 25/25
    Aft: 25

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (10.0 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  3 officers

Notes: Mounts 5 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons
and Ammo              Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Naval Tug Adaptor       Nose     120.0     -      -    -    -    - 


Honestly, I'd probably forgo a small craft in this role and go with a knockoff of the Hoshiryokou.

kind of why I put this up-because it's hard to work out in the rules something that does what I want it to do.  The first problem is, comets and asteroids aren't regularly machined spaces, built with docking collars or towing rings (or lift points).  for this you need a means to 'strap an engine and controls to it and move it to a useful orbit'.

or, alternately, anchor it and call in your friends to help bust it up into portable chunks (without wasting anything.)
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

kato

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Re: smallcraft challenge: Help me envision a Prospecting Pinnace!
« Reply #14 on: 29 October 2021, 16:53:08 »
kind of why I put this up-because it's hard to work out in the rules something that does what I want it to do.
It's easily doable. Conceptually it's somewhat similar to the Screwdriver rules abuse, although more complicated.

You need the following:

a) Your base ship. This is actually a space station.
Space stations have been proposed (was it cray?) to model asteroid facilities in the past. Fluff this up. This space station is your "baseplate" consisting mostly of internal structure. It is physically rammed into the asteroid and provides an attachment point for your tug to push it, basically taking care of redistributing forces. SRCS it so you don't need crew.
b) Your tug.
Needs to be a dropship to move large loads, and can be literally as large as needed. Because you SRCS this.
c) Your control ship.
Your control ship is actually a small craft. In spaceflight it is typically carried "onboard" the baseplate station a), but capable of moving on its own. It is actually also equipped with a naval tug adaptor to move equipment d). It is the only actually manned component, with a crew of 3 or more.
d) One or more satellites containing your modular equipment.
These are interchangable items that you outfit for your modular needs (sensor-wise, weapons-wise). It is SRCSed, or depending on equipment simply zero-crewed. I would suggest having a second "slot" onboard station a) for standby-carrying at least one of these units.

Operationally
- When the set is "assembled" the tug pushes the baseplate station onboard which the control ship and the module satellite is carried.
- Arriving at a station control ship and satellite are deployed, with the control ship towing the satellite and its equipment to where it wants it.
- Once it is decided to move the asteroid the baseplate station rams the asteroid (you may want to give it armor for this). The tug moves it to wherever it's planned to be disassembled.
- During disassembly of the asteroid the baseplate stays there, while the tug can be used for auxiliary functions or for stationkeeping if needed.
- Control ship and satellite can in the meantime perform other duties on their own and will reunite with baseplate and tug when they are available again.

Notes
  • if the baseplate as an asteroid facility space station isn't to your liking you could also model it as a ground mobile structure equipped with a dock adapter that the tug "softly" pushes to land on the asteroid. The next point is moot then though. Also note that you can not model it as a simple building though.
  • if you absolutely want to simulate the pitfalls of pushing the asteroid close to standard rules the baseplate station may need a reinforced repair bay of capacity equivalent to the size of the asteroid. You're hard-limited by weight to asteroids of about 175-330 meters diameter then though, and the cost would be enormous.
  • if you need more variety of modular equipment during a mission than a single satellite can provide add vehicle bays on the baseplate for "alternative satellites" that the control ship can tug around.

 

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