Register Register

Author Topic: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)  (Read 672 times)

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8335
100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« on: 07 October 2022, 16:31:48 »
Yes, we know about the Zechetinu, but how hard can you flog 100,000 tons (Plus or minus 5.5 percent)?

Rules: "no Clan gear".  Everything in the tech base must be Inner Sphere tech. 

Preferred mobility: between 4/6 and 5/8

Preferred loadout:
must be able to schlep at least one squadron (inner Sphere) of fighters, and support them for a minimum of 180 days
Must be able to schlep at least 4 smallcraft, with two of those being some form of dedicated combat vessel (but not fighters)
May not mount a dropship collar.
Must have a minimum six months supplies on board for the crew, plus a 10% cargo fraction for maintenance, parts, and fabrication

Six months is my baseline for this one, so it needs a minimum of six months of fuel for it, and for the attendant smallcraft and fighters.

so, with all that in mind?

How nasty can you make it?
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Dragon Cat

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7367
  • Not Dead Until I Say So
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #1 on: 07 October 2022, 17:14:23 »
Tagged I may have a go too
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

AlphaMirage

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2464
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #2 on: 07 October 2022, 17:38:30 »
I wanted to use missiles to give it some stand-off ability but the mass was to expensive to be argued for a long patrol. The SCL/3s provide some hurt against enemy fighter carriers and long range defense against attack with increasing rings of defense if any enemy aerospace makes it through. A broadside of 6 UAC/20s will put a hurt on enemy dropships and its not terrible against Warships either although it is very short ranged.

A 7 man tech team is attached to the tech carried per bay for a pair of tech teams per squadron maybe you can pull in ship's crew as astechs as well to keep everything in good condition during the cruise. Its also fairly 'cheap' at 'only' 4 Billion C-Bills.

Slightly more than 12 kilotons of cargo is enough for crew needs (which will use almost a ton of day in consumables) and the aerospace fighters (at least 1 ton per month in spare ammo ea).

4.8 kilotons of fuel bunkerage is enough to provide 1200 tons of fuel to the fighters (enough for 5 months) while leaving the warship enough to complete its tour.

Light Patrol Carrier LPC Epsilon
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3058
Mass: 100,000
Cost: 3,931,834,400 C-bills
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Fuel: 4,800 tons (48,000)
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 600 (1200)
Structural Integrity: 40

Armor
    Nose: 26
    Fore Sides: 25/25
    Aft Sides: 21/21
    Aft: 18

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (12)            2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (6)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (12339.0 tons)    1 Door   
Code: [Select]
Ammunition:
    720 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (60 tons),
    600 rounds of Ultra AC/20 ammunition (20 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (88 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 32
Crew:  17 officers, 48 enlisted/non-rated, 33 gunners, 54 bay personnel, 21 passengers

Notes: Mounts 80 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (170 Heat)
4 Medium Pulse Laser                        16   2(24)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
10 ER PPC                                   150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC         
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (192 Heat)
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)                 128  12(120) 12(120)  0(0)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
4 ER Medium Laser                           20   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
4 Large Pulse Laser                         40   4(36)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (48 Heat)
6 Ultra AC/20                               48   18(180) 18(180)  0(0)     0(0)   AC         
    Ultra AC/20 Ammo (1500 shots)
ARS/ALS (192 Heat)
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)                 128  12(120) 12(120)  0(0)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
4 Large Pulse Laser                         40   4(36)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
4 ER Medium Laser                           20   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (170 Heat)
4 Medium Pulse Laser                        16   2(24)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
10 ER PPC                                   150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC         
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #3 on: 07 October 2022, 21:38:17 »
The spare parts looks off---CO page 24 says .1%/month = .6% for 6 months.

AlphaMirage

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2464
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #4 on: 08 October 2022, 07:55:34 »
The spare parts looks off---CO page 24 says .1%/month = .6% for 6 months.

I was counting ammo and fuel consumption more which is much higher than spare parts

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #5 on: 08 October 2022, 13:25:19 »
I was counting ammo and fuel consumption more which is much higher than spare parts
Yeah, I meant the comment for Cannonshop.  10% is the kind of spare parts which lasts 8 years.  That doesn't make sense though since the fuel won't last that long.   Alternatively, it could supply a fleet for 6 months, but that makes little sense given the uneconomical nature of small warships.  The only role I can see is a stealth/special ops flavor.  Something like the following.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Not-a-Bugeye
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $9,271,538,000.00
Magazine Cost: $9,000,000.00
BV2: 28,113

Mass: 100,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
2 Naval Laser 55
48 AMS (IS)
72 Gauss Rifle Heavy Improved

Class/Model/Name: Not-a-Bugeye
Mass: 100,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 30,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 5
Maximum: 8
Controls: 250.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (4 Integrity) 46,250.00
Jump Sail: (3 Integrity) 35.00
Structural Integrity: 90 9,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 300(600) Double 11.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 50000 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 306 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 180.00
Fore: 51
Fore-Left/Right: 51/51
Aft-Left/Right: 51/51
Aft: 51

Escape Pods: 11 77.00
Life Boats: 11 77.00

Crew And Passengers:
17 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 170.00
48 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 336.00
36 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 252.00
32 Bay Personnel 0.00
32 2nd Class Passengers 224.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
1 Naval Laser 55 AL 85 55 (5.5-C) Extreme-C 1,100.00
1 Naval Laser 55 AR 85 55 (5.5-C) 1,100.00
12 AMS (IS) Nose 12 36 (3.6-C) 6.00  (arranged in pairs)
12 AMS (IS) LBS 12 36 (3.6-C) 6.00  (arranged in pairs)
12 AMS (IS) RBS 12 36 (3.6-C) 6.00  (arranged in pairs)
12 AMS (IS) Aft 12 36 (3.6-C) 6.00  (arranged in pairs)
18 Gauss Rifle Heavy Improved FR 36 396 (39.6-C) 360.00  (arranged as 1x8, 2x4, 2x1)
18 Gauss Rifle Heavy Improved FL 36 396 (39.6-C) 360.00  (arranged as 1x8, 2x4, 2x1)
18 Gauss Rifle Heavy Improved AL 36 396 (39.6-C) 360.00  (arranged as 1x8, 2x4, 2x1)
18 Gauss Rifle Heavy Improved AR 36 396 (39.6-C) 360.00  (arranged as 1x8, 2x4, 2x1)

Ammo Rounds Mass
AMS (IS) Ammo 2400 200.00
Gauss Rifle Heavy Improved Ammo 1800 450.00

Equipment Mass
NCSS Large 500.00
Imager Hyperspectral 7.50
Imager Look-Down Radar 5.00
Mobile HPG 50.00

The Not-a-Bugeye is designed for scouting and special operations.  Designed to appear as a Behemoth class dropship externally, the warship packs several surprises inside.  Unlike most warships, it eschews a docking collar and grav decks to complete the disguise.  The Not-a-Bugeye's surface hides several surprises inside.  The primary drive is a much larger unit capable of pushing 4Gs making it able to outrun or at least match the pace of any other warship.  The Not-a-Bugeye also features modern imagers and a large naval comm-scanner suite providing exceptional intelligence gathering capability backed by an HPG capable of transmitting that information over interstellar distances. 

Two ports open up to reveal NL 55s which discourage pursuit while outranging dropship based weapons.   An array of improved heavy gauss rifles provides close-in anti-dropship and anti-smallcraft capabilities.  In the broadside arc, these combine to generate about >80 capital damage.  Enemy fighters and dropships using missiles discover the Not-a-Bugeye has a broad array of AMS providing the capacity to wipe out swarms of missiles.  The entire ship is swathed in advanced capital armor to enhance survivability.

When ground operations are necessary several smallcraft and ASF can provide transport and direct support while the aft side mounted NL-55s provide ortillery fire support.

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8335
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #6 on: 08 October 2022, 13:42:08 »
Yeah, I meant the comment for Cannonshop.  10% is the kind of spare parts which lasts 8 years.  That doesn't make sense though since the fuel won't last that long.   Alternatively, it could supply a fleet for 6 months, but that makes little sense given the uneconomical nature of small warships. 

The 10% is part of the "Expects to be shot at, frequently and a lot, and have to patch or repair a lot of kit that's been shot off or shot full of holes".  Even if you have a tender with a portable yard, you can build smaller tenders or carry more portable yards if they're not having to schlep anything but the biggest components.

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #7 on: 08 October 2022, 14:49:29 »
The 10% is part of the "Expects to be shot at, frequently and a lot, and have to patch or repair a lot of kit that's been shot off or shot full of holes".  Even if you have a tender with a portable yard, you can build smaller tenders or carry more portable yards if they're not having to schlep anything but the biggest components.
It's your challenge of course, but using 10K tons for repair/replacement over a 6 month campaign looks quite challenging to me using the SO rules.  You plausibly hit limits in terms of required naval yards (for many replacements), time (6 months isn't much and repairs take time), and unit survival (getting shot full of holes is likely to mean you don't get an opportunity to repair).

Andras

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 796
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #8 on: 08 October 2022, 18:44:54 »

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: CEC CTR105 Cutter
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $3,934,471,764.00
Magazine Cost: $800,000.00
BV2: 17,547

Mass: 105,000
K-F Drive System: Compact
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
32 AMS (IS)
30 Laser Large Pulse (IS)
8 Subcapital Laser 1
16 Subcapital Laser 2
4 Capital Launcher Killer Whale

Controls: 263.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact (4 Integrity) 47,513.00
Jump Sail: (3 Integrity) 36.00
Structural Integrity: 60 6,300.00
Total Heat Sinks: 526(1052) Double 257.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 35500 points 3,621.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00

Armor: 213 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 126.00
Fore: 37
Fore-Left/Right: 35/35
Aft-Left/Right: 35/35
Aft: 36

Dropship Capacity: 0
Life Boats: 4 28.00

Crew And Passengers:
17 Officers in 2nd Class Quarters 119.00
49 Crew in Steerage Quarters 245.00
33 Gunners and Others in Steerage Quarters 165.00
44 Bay Personnel 0.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
8 AMS (IS) Nose 8 24 (2.4-C) PDS 4.00
8 AMS (IS) RBS 8 24 (2.4-C) PDS 4.00
8 AMS (IS) LBS 8 24 (2.4-C) PDS 4.00
8 AMS (IS) Aft 8 24 (2.4-C) PDS 4.00

5 Laser Large Pulse (IS) Nose 50 45 (4.5-C) Medium 35.00
5 Laser Large Pulse (IS) FR 50 45 (4.5-C) Medium 35.00
5 Laser Large Pulse (IS) FL 50 45 (4.5-C) Medium 35.00
5 Laser Large Pulse (IS) AR 50 45 (4.5-C) Medium 35.00
5 Laser Large Pulse (IS) AL 50 45 (4.5-C) Medium 35.00
5 Laser Large Pulse (IS) Aft 50 45 (4.5-C) Medium 35.00

4 Subcapital Laser 1 Nose 96 40 (4-C) Long-C 600.00
4 Subcapital Laser 2 FR 112 80 (8-C) Medium-C 800.00
4 Subcapital Laser 2 FL 112 80 (8-C) Medium-C 800.00
4 Subcapital Laser 2 AR 112 80 (8-C) Medium-C 800.00
4 Subcapital Laser 2 AL 112 80 (8-C) Medium-C 800.00
4 Subcapital Laser 1 Aft 96 40 (4-C) Long-C 600.00

2 Capital Launcher Killer Whale Nose 40 80 (8-C) Extreme-C 300.00
2 Capital Launcher Killer Whale Aft 40 80 (8-C) Extreme-C 300.00

Ammo Rounds Mass
AMS (IS) Ammo 3264 272.00
Capital Launcher Killer Whale Ammo 40 2,000.00

Fighters: 12 (6 doors)
Small Craft: 4 (2 doors)
Cargo 12,039 (2 doors)

SCL1s front and rear backed by KW launchers. Overlapping broadsides of SCL2s. LgPLs for close in defense. AMS in 4 bays of 2 each location.

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8335
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #9 on: 08 October 2022, 20:32:22 »
It's your challenge of course, but using 10K tons for repair/replacement over a 6 month campaign looks quite challenging to me using the SO rules.  You plausibly hit limits in terms of required naval yards (for many replacements), time (6 months isn't much and repairs take time), and unit survival (getting shot full of holes is likely to mean you don't get an opportunity to repair).

I'll contrast two approaches: the IJN's approach, and the USN's approach, we'll use the 1941-1945 time period.

The Imperial Japanese Navy confined damage control to dedicated teams, and carried limited stores of repair materials and parts. This, in turn, resulted in them declaring ships of the USN 'sunk' when they weren't.  (IIRC USS Saratoga??)

USN vessels experienced massive, crippling, significant damage...that they repaired in the field.

IJN lost more than one carrier to their own lack of damage control capacities.

This is documented.

This was also present in the contrast between Kreigsmarine practices, and the Royal Navy, which is a similar dichotomy.  Germans also lost vessels due to emphasizing direct combat capacity over damage control, though to a lesser extent and earlier in the war, though a comparison between the Wehrmacht and U.S. forces shows a similar trend with regards to tanks- the Panzers, even the easiest to use ones, were significantly more difficult to repair or maintain in the field, to the result that Wehrmacht units often lost vehicles to what amounts to simple breakdowns that could've been handled, if the design wasn't so heavily optimized for combat and some servicability had been built into the doctrine. (and rifles.  The K-43 is a maintainer's nightmare, even compared to the M-1, and the G-42 the less said the better-the German rifles from the war were intended to be maintained by unit armorers, not field troops.)

It might seem excessive, but it allows these ships to provide some for their own repair and maintenance, and some for sister ships operating in the same war-zone.  The faster you can patch up, the faster you can get back into action.

Also, don't forget that sometimes staff planners will go FAR too far in a specification, usually in response to something that went wrong in the past.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

wolfgar

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1762
  • Wolfson's Heavy Raiders: 3058-3092
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #10 on: 08 October 2022, 21:35:14 »
Code: [Select]
Honestly i think 100k is a bit light to do everything you wanted but i gave it my best shot. Not at all happy with it, but thats more a matter of it feels like it has too many requirements of it. One of the benefits that the US had over both the Germans and the Japanese in WWII is that when we built a platform it was for one singular job, and it was the best we could build at that point for that job

]code]
XC-101-A Patrol Gunship
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 14,393
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 3,924,872,000 C-bills

Fuel: 4,000 tons (40,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 360 (720)
Structural Integrity: 25

Armor
    Nose: 14
    Fore Sides: 12/12
    Aft Sides: 11/11
    Aft: 8

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (6)             2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (6)             2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Small Craft (6)         2 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (10145.0 tons)    3 Doors   

Ammunition:
    30 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (100 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 2 (95 m, 95 m)
Escape Pods: 36
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  15 officers, 50 enlisted/non-rated, 12 gunners, 54 bay personnel, 30 marines

Notes: Mounts 50 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (478 Heat)
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                        450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
FRS/FLS (48 Heat)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (15 shots)
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
RBS/LBS (92 Heat)
2 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)                64   6(60)   6(60)    0(0)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
ARS/ALS (76 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1)                48   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
Aft (28 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                                14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         


Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #11 on: 08 October 2022, 21:36:22 »
...
Mid-combat repair seems obviously useful when it can be done. 

W.r.t. historical ships, if you read the history of Saratoga and Yorktown, you see that trips to the yards (which presumably had massive supplies) for repair were common.  I'm skeptical that Yorktown or Saratoga devoted anything like 10% of ship mass (i.e. 2500 or 3700 tons) to repair.   Something more like 1% (i.e. 250 or 370 tons) seems more plausible.  I'm not sure how to answer this definitively.

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4046
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #12 on: 10 October 2022, 05:31:36 »
It's your challenge of course, but using 10K tons for repair/replacement over a 6 month campaign looks quite challenging to me using the SO rules.  You plausibly hit limits in terms of required naval yards (for many replacements), time (6 months isn't much and repairs take time), and unit survival (getting shot full of holes is likely to mean you don't get an opportunity to repair).

I'd see it as an early design where people are still unsure of the proper supply/repair requirements (and Tabby is trying not to laugh at their paranoia), so they allocate more than necessary.  Later designs will have a more sensible allocation of repair materials, supplies, and fuel/ordnance.  In the meantime, they have space that can be used for extra supplies and future upgrades.

For example, instead of carrying top-damage weapons (i.e. NL/55, HNPPC, and other max damage for their class weapons), they go one step short, and see which weapon gets used the most.  The next version will use the larger of that weapon for its testing.  So if you are primarily using NL, then the next version will have more and bigger NL arrays.

This extra tonnage for spares/supplies also means they can rescue/recover Jumpships and Dropships that have been stranded, instead of just telling the crews "we see you, we'll go back for help, but there's little we can do".  The first of these 'Warship' officers might come from the Coast Guard where rescue is among their primary duties.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28882
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #13 on: 12 October 2022, 19:44:40 »
I'll post one of my Sampan designs when it's less close to bed time... Friday at the latest...  ^-^

wolfgar

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1762
  • Wolfson's Heavy Raiders: 3058-3092
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #14 on: 13 October 2022, 21:00:28 »
Heres a more ballanced build for this, but honestly i still feel that the weight restriction keeps things too low

Code: [Select]
XC-101-B Patrol Gunship
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3060
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 18,083
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-F
Cost: 3,882,978,000 C-bills

Fuel: 3,000 tons (30,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 540 (1080)
Structural Integrity: 25

Armor
    Nose: 14
    Fore Sides: 12/12
    Aft Sides: 11/11
    Aft: 8

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (6)             2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (7276.0 tons)     4 Doors   

Ammunition:
    40 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (60 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (95 m)
Escape Pods: 36
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  16 officers, 49 enlisted/non-rated, 28 gunners, 32 bay personnel, 30 marines

Notes: Mounts 50 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (8 Heat)
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
FRS/FLS (28 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
RBS/LBS (496 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                        244  16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  9(90)   Capital Laser
    2 Naval Laser 45
2 Naval Laser 35                        244  16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  9(90)   Capital Laser
    2 Naval Laser 45
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
ARS/ALS (8 Heat)
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
Aft (8 Heat)
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
2 Small Pulse Laser                      4    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense


« Last Edit: 13 October 2022, 21:05:03 by wolfgar »
Wolf wins every fight but one, and in that one he dies, his fangs locked on the throat of his opponent.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28882
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #15 on: 14 October 2022, 03:09:38 »
Apologies for the delay on my end.  I should have something up after work tonight.

kindalas

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 445
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #16 on: 14 October 2022, 13:01:11 »
The Ian Davion Class Corvette

Built in the Federated Suns half of the Federated Commonwealth as rebadged version of the Sampan mk 4 developed by Ngo Industries.

By law the two designs are identical however it was felt that having two corvette programs running in parallel on paper would be a cover for the spending that led to the Foxy Class Corvette that slipped from Galax's shipyards far sooner then anyone expected.

The vessel is armed with four heavy missile launchers and a paid of heavy duty lasers.

It is lacking in "secondary" armaments and it instead relies on its squadron (6) of aerospace fighters and four support small craft.

It weighs in at 110,000 tons (as 105,500 is against construction rules in megameklab) and it has massive transit drives backed up with a heavily reinforced structure with layers of the only armor deemed acceptable by the Annual Spacers Survey.

To act as a final layer of defense a heavy layer of AMS systems were installed covering every angle of potential attack from heavy missile strikes.

To give the vessel patrol legs over 10,000 tons of supplies, space parts and cargo is part of the design.

To aid in fleet coordination a large NCSS has been installed.

Future upgrade plans include replacing a large chunk of the ships cargo fraction with either a pair of Naval AutoCannons or a single Heavy Naval Gauss Rifle. But these plans have been put on indefinite hold pending after action review of the current design.

Critics of the design have been numerous, saying that the lack of secondary weapons is a critical failure, that the small number of heavy weapons is a critical failure, that too much emphasis has been placed on patrol duration, and other such nonsense.

Only time will tell if the design of the Ian Davion/Sampan mk4 is a good fit for the FCN.



Code: [Select]
Ian Davion Class Corvette  FX-42
Mass: 110,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3050
Mass: 110,000
Battle Value: 14,196
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 7,247,388,000 C-bills

Fuel: 1,000 tons (5,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 310
Structural Integrity: 120

Armor
    Nose: 91
    Fore Sides: 81/81
    Aft Sides: 71/71
    Aft: 46

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (6)             3 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (10329.0 tons)    5 Doors   

Ammunition:
    1,920 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (160 tons),
    40 rounds of White Shark ammunition (80 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 2 (65 m, 65 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 20
Crew:  15 officers, 64 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 32 bay personnel, 28 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
264 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (10 Heat)
10 Anti-Missile System                     10   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
FRS/FLS (125 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)   30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
1 Naval Laser 55                           85   6(55)   6(55)   6(55)    6(55)   Capital Laser
10 Anti-Missile System                     10   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
RBS/LBS (10 Heat)
10 Anti-Missile System                     10   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
ARS/ALS (10 Heat)
10 Anti-Missile System                     10   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
Aft (10 Heat)
10 Anti-Missile System                     10   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)



 

WONC

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 714
  • The Once & Future WiseOldNovaCat
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #17 on: 14 October 2022, 15:47:24 »
It's been more than a decade since I tried building a warship, so I gave it a go. Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about it, but she's zippy, so that's something.

Code: [Select]
                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Prototype XIV-A
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3062
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 2, Custom design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              100,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            276 meters
Sail Diameter:     800 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       5
Maximum Thrust:    8
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
   24 Large Laser
   16 LRM 20
   16 Gauss Rifle
   16 Small Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Prototype XIV-A
Mass:              100,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                       30,000.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 4)                 45,250.00
Lithium Fusion Battery                                               1,000.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 3)                                              35.00
Structural Integrity: 45                                             4,500.00
Total Heat Sinks:    289 Double                                           .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   3,627.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                250.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (180 days supply)                                       127.00
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (156 total armor pts)              90.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 28
   Fore-Left/Right:                   26/26
   Aft-Left/Right:                    26/26
   Aft:                                  24

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (12) with 4 doors                                1,800.00
   Bay 2:  Small Craft (4) with 2 doors                                800.00
   Bay 3:  Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                    1,005.00

Grav Deck #1:  (94-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  12 (7 tons each)                                           84.00
Escape Pods:  10 (7 tons each)                                          70.00

Crew and Passengers:
     13 Officers (13 minimum)                                          130.00
     52 Crew (52 minimum)                                              364.00
     12 Gunners (12 minimum)                                            84.00
      6 2nd Class Passengers                                            42.00
     14 Marines                                                         70.00
     44 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Large Laser              Nose     2(24)  2(24)     --     --   24     15.00
2 LRM 20(48 rounds)        Nose     2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   12     28.00
2 Gauss Rifle(48 rounds)   Nose     3(30)  3(30)  3(30)     --    2     36.00
2 Small Laser              Nose      1(6)     --     --     --    2      1.00
3 Large Laser              FL/R     2(24)  2(24)     --     --   48     30.00
2 LRM 20(48 rounds)        FL/R     2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   24     56.00
2 Gauss Rifle(24 rounds)   FL/R     3(30)  3(30)  3(30)     --    4     66.00
2 Small Laser              FL/R      1(6)     --     --     --    4      2.00
3 Large Laser              L/RBS    2(24)  2(24)     --     --   48     30.00
2 LRM 20(48 rounds)        L/RBS    2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   24     56.00
2 Gauss Rifle(24 rounds)   L/RBS    3(30)  3(30)  3(30)     --    4     66.00
2 Small Laser              L/RBS     1(6)     --     --     --    4      2.00
3 Large Laser              AL/R     2(24)  2(24)     --     --   48     30.00
2 LRM 20(48 rounds)        AL/R     2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   24     56.00
2 Gauss Rifle(24 rounds)   AL/R     3(30)  3(30)  3(30)     --    4     66.00
2 Small Laser              AL/R      1(6)     --     --     --    4      2.00
3 Large Laser              Aft      2(24)  2(24)     --     --   24     15.00
2 LRM 20(48 rounds)        Aft      2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   12     28.00
2 Gauss Rifle(48 rounds)   Aft      3(30)  3(30)  3(30)     --    2     36.00
2 Small Laser              Aft       1(6)     --     --     --    2      1.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (10.00%)                                          10,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                              Heat: 320     100,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        4,263,876,440 C-Bills
Battle Value:      20,649
Cost per BV:       206,493.12
Weapon Value:      14,484 (Ratio = .70)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 616;  MRV = 451;  LRV = 120;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 121,705
                   (39,800 Structure, 71,575 Life Support, 10,330 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 170,550  (140% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable
Quando omni flunkus moritati.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28882
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #18 on: 14 October 2022, 20:01:45 »
I'm finally home with enough time to at least post the stats (costs will be tomorrow, sorry).

As directed, I went with 105,000 tons, and increased the ASF complement to 18 with 6 Small Craft in support.  I added a second NL/45 to the nose, replaced all the Pulse Lasers with LB-10Xs, and kept the Laser AMSs (since I'm too lazy to look up when they were introduced... it won't be hard to convert them to the ballistic kind).  The missile magazines were increased to 1,000 tons each.  The reinforced air wing came with a significant increase in personnel, boosting the air wing to 222.  This boosted the total embarked number to 375.  It also put the CAG at the same rank as the Captain (as well as boosting the DCAG and Big XO to O-5 as well... I propose the fleet up model: DCAG becomes the CAG when the old CAG rolls out, and the XO becomes the CO when they leave as well).  The Marine complement is steady at 50, which includes a "foot" platoon of 28 with 2 officers, a BA platoon of 12, the requisite 3 technicians, and a medical team of 5.  This all comes with almost 300 (298 to be precise) bay quality racks for short term passengers (rescuees/prisoners), and the life support will be costed to support them.  Not so much the installed food storage, which can sustain the crew for just shy of a year without short rations.  All that leaves just over 2,000 tons of cargo for spares or other things.

Code: [Select]
"Super" Sampan Mark IV
Tonnage       105,000.0
Thrust        25,200.0 4
Fuel 2,000.0 204.7082907 Burn Days
Pumps    40.0
SI        10,500.0 100
KF Drive (Compact Core)        47,512.5 Integrity 3
Lithium-Fusion Battery 1,050.0
Sail    36.0 Integrity 3
Controls   262.5
Base Crew Quarters   340.0 5 66 2 Extra Crew
Heat Sinks    50.0 269 Free 638 Total
Armor   210.0 168 Standard Points
NL/45 1,800.0 2 900 Nose 70 heat each
AR-10 Launchers 2,000.0 8 250 Up to 50 heat each
Laser AMS    24.0 16 1.5 Dual mounts in all arcs
LB-10Xs   528.0 48 11 Twin Triple Mounts in all arcs
Ammo   480.0 480 1 10 tons per cannon
ER PPCs    42.0 6 7
Communications Equipment     2.0 2 1 2 additional crew
Hyperspectral Imager     7.5 1 7.5
Small Craft Cubicles 1,200.0 6 200 5 crew each
ASF Cubicles 2,700.0 18 150 2 crew each
Gunners    95.0 5 19 Long Term Quarters
RTOs    75.0 5 15 Long Term Quarters
CAG Staff    30.0 5 6 Long Term Quarters
Bay Crew   350.0 5 70 Long Term Quarters
AsTechs   720.0 5 144 Long Term Quarters
Marines   150.0 5 30 Long Term Quarters
Armored Marines    60.0 5 12 Long Term Quarters
Infantry Bay (Foot)    10.0 5 2
AsTech Bays    25.0 5 5
BA Bays    24.0 8 3
BA Techs    15.0 5 3 Long Term Quarters
Doors     0.0 0 9 2 Small Craft, 6 ASF, 1 Cargo
MASH     3.5 3.5 1 1 Operating Theater
Medical Team    25.0 5 5 Long Term Quarters
"Field Kitchen"     3.0 3 1 3 additional crew
Cooks    15.0 5 3 Long Term Quarters
Upgrade CO/XO and CAG/DCAG    20.0 5 4 Officer Quarters; each pair shares a "Jack and Jill" head
Life Boats   700.0 7 100 7 PAX per Lifeboat
Missle Bays 4,000.0 40 100 1 White Shark/2 Barracudas per 100 tons (1,000 in each bay)
Consumables   675.0 1.875 360 Crew Days 1 Crew Day = 300 Man Days =
Cargo 2,020.0 Usually more food, always equipment for harvesting water from asteroids

nerd

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2169
  • Nunc Partus-Ready Now
    • Traveller Adventures
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #19 on: 14 October 2022, 21:41:13 »
Here's my design

The Ocelot is a minimal sized warship mounting a single Killer Whale tube as main armament, and nine light Naval grade lasers as heavy weapons. For close in defense, the design carries a mixed laser battery, and eight anti missile systems. Patrol support is using the four small craft, six fighters and marine Platoon. Long term operations are supported by an 88 meter grav deck, 4300 tons of fuel, and 13,000 tons of supplies. While the power distribution system may not allow for sustained combat, the speed capabilities and relative toughness make it more than capable for raiding operations and local defense missions.

Ocelot Missile Corvette Warship
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3052
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 8,218
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-F
Cost: 3,869,428,400 C-bills
Fuel: 4,300 tons (43,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 0
Structural Integrity: 27
Armor
     Nose: 10
     Fore Sides: 10/10
     Aft Sides: 9/9
     Aft: 9
Cargo
Bay 1:    Fighter (6)    1 Door
Bay 2:    Small Craft (4)    1 Door
Bay 3:    Cargo (13000.0 tons)    1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (88 m)
Escape Pods: 14
Life Boats: 0
Crew: 14 officers, 58 enlisted/non-rated, 28 gunners, 32 bay personnel, 21 marines
Ammunition: 144 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons), 16 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (50 tons)
Notes: Mounts 54 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:       Capital Attack Values (Standard)    
Arc (Heat)    Heat    SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV    Class
Nose (104 Heat)                   
1 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale), Killer Whale Ammo (16 shots)    20    4(40)    4(40)    4(40)    4(40)    Capital Missile
1 Naval Laser 35    52    4(35)    4(35)    4(35)    0(0)    Capital Laser
4 Large Laser    32    3(32)    3(32)    0(0)    0(0)    Laser
FRS/FLS (57 Heat)                   
1 Naval Laser 35    52    4(35)    4(35)    4(35)    0(0)    Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (432 shots)    2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)    AMS
1 Medium Laser    3    1(5)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)    Laser
RBS/LBS (136 Heat)                   
2 Naval Laser 35    104    7(70)    7(70)    7(70)    0(0)    Capital Laser
4 Large Laser    32    3(32)    3(32)    0(0)    0(0)    Laser
ARS/ALS (60 Heat)                   
1 Naval Laser 35    52    4(35)    4(35)    4(35)    0(0)    Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (432 shots)    2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)    AMS
2 Medium Laser    6    1(10)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)    Laser
Aft (32 Heat)                   
4 Large Laser    32    3(32)    3(32)    0(0)    0(0)    Laser
M. T. Thompson
Don of the Starslayer Mafia
Member of the AFFS High Command

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28882
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: 100,000 tons Challenge (Warship, not Dropship!!)
« Reply #20 on: 15 October 2022, 06:43:21 »
If I've done my math right, the cost comes out to 6,705,908,000.

Crew and spare racks:
Code: [Select]
Marines 50 total
Officers   3 (1 BA)
Foot 28
BA 11
Medics   5 Chief (PA) and 4 Corpsmen
BA Techs   3

Air Wing 222 total
CAG/DCAG   2 O-5s
CAG Staff   3 O-4s (MO, Ops, Paddles)
CAG CMC   1 E-9
Pilots 30 18 ASF, 12 SC
Air Crew 18 3 per SC
Techs 24
AsTechs 144

Wardroom 15 total officers
CO 1 O-5
XO/Navigator 1 O-5
Ops 1 O-4 Owns Deck
Eng 1 O-4
Weps 1 O-4
Div Os 10 DCA, MPA, EA, 1st LT, ANAV, SIGWO, CSO, Guns, Missiles, Supply

Divisions 88 total crew
CMC 1 E-9
Ship's Sec 1
Missiles 12
Supply 6 Includes the cooks
Guns 14
Combat Systems 12
Signals 12
Deck 12
Engineering 18 Auxiliary, M, and E Divisions

103 total ship's company, 375 total personnel aboard

Extra racks
Flight Bays 66
Marine Bays 60
BA Bays 18
AsTech Bays 150
Total 294