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Author Topic: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat  (Read 681 times)

saab14

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Hello,

The players in our ongoing campaign are going to be facing aerospace vs aerospace combat for the first time.

I have a couple of questions I couldn't find answers to in AS:CE.

1. Do aerospace units with high maneuverability (thrust?) get any bonuses to tailing low maneuverability units? For example, I imagine a nimble Sparrowhawk should find it easier to get behind a sluggish Riever than the other way 'round.

2. When a slow unit takes a turn off the board because it has a thrust rating under 10, can a faster unit with thrust over 10 pursue it off the board and continue to engage it?

Your suggestions appreciated.


FenderSaxbey

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #1 on: 20 January 2021, 10:07:39 »
1. Do aerospace units with high maneuverability (thrust?) get any bonuses to tailing low maneuverability units? For example, I imagine a nimble Sparrowhawk should find it easier to get behind a sluggish Riever than the other way 'round.
From my understanding, no. Its just straight control rolls. This might have been the case in earlier editions and its certainly fine if you and your group want to play that way.
2. When a slow unit takes a turn off the board because it has a thrust rating under 10, can a faster unit with thrust over 10 pursue it off the board and continue to engage it?
Not sure what you mean here. Are you using the older atmospheric map rules or something like IOps or StratOps?

saab14

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #2 on: 20 January 2021, 10:13:57 »
Not sure what you mean here. Are you using the older atmospheric map rules or something like IOps or StratOps?

I think I'm confusing the aerospace systems from AS vs. AS:CE. The original AS rules had off-board combat rules using the radar map.

So in the new rules, a unit with Thrust under 10 can actually stay on the board each turn?

nckestrel

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #3 on: 20 January 2021, 10:15:57 »
I think I'm confusing the aerospace systems from AS vs. AS:CE. The original AS rules had off-board combat rules using the radar map.

So in the new rules, a unit with Thrust under 10 can actually stay on the board each turn?

With the new rules, all aerospace are on the board each turn. There's no off-board or radar map at all.  Thrust determines how much control they have over their entry point each turn.
It is up to the player to manage attacks from different angles, but higher thrust will give more options, lower thrust will have less options and therefore be more predictable. But it's determined by actual placement of entry points and flight path, not by comparing thrust ratings or rolling. Same as with ground combat.  Higher movement will make it easier to get behind, and lower movement will make it harder to get away, but it's still up to the player to get into those positions.

« Last Edit: 20 January 2021, 10:19:00 by nckestrel »
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saab14

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #4 on: 20 January 2021, 10:20:05 »
With the new rules, all aerospace are on the board each turn. There's no off-board or radar map at all.  Thrust determines how much control they have over their entry point each turn.

Hah! We've been doing it all wrong. Thanks. This is simpler, it'll play better.

FenderSaxbey, I think I'm going to take your suggestion and use the thrust rating modifier for control rolls as per the old rules. Does anyone else use that?

saab14

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #5 on: 20 January 2021, 10:23:02 »
But it's determined by actual placement of entry points and flight path, not by comparing thrust ratings or rolling. Same as with ground combat.  Higher movement will make it easier to get behind, and lower movement will make it harder to get away, but it's still up to the player to get into those positions.

Interesting. This is going to change the gameplay a lot for us. Thanks.

I'm not sure in that case whether to use thrust to influence control rolls.

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #6 on: 20 January 2021, 10:31:03 »
Thrust no longer has any influence on Control Rolls. Light fighter pilots now have to actually be better than their heavy fighter opponents to outfly them. If you want to win engagement rolls, take advantage of the fact that smaller and faster fighters are often cheaper than bigger ones, and dump some PV into improving your pilot.
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saab14

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #7 on: 20 January 2021, 10:37:06 »
Thrust no longer has any influence on Control Rolls. Light fighter pilots now have to actually be better than their heavy fighter opponents to outfly them. If you want to win engagement rolls, take advantage of the fact that smaller and faster fighters are often cheaper than bigger ones, and dump some PV into improving your pilot.

Understood.

I'm not an expert in aerial warfare, but, it seems counter-intuitive to me that light fighters wouldn't find it easier to get behind heavy bombers.

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #8 on: 20 January 2021, 10:38:58 »
They do find it easier, because their higher speed makes it easier to reposition their entry point at will, and as mentioned, their lower cost makes it easier to fill the cockpit with an improved pilot.
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saab14

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #9 on: 20 January 2021, 10:44:26 »
They do find it easier, because their higher speed makes it easier to reposition their entry point at will

I think I'm missing something. How does this work? I've just re-read the air-to-air section of AS:CE, and I don't see how choosing a flight path point a bit to the left or right would make much of a difference in the engagement. Based on my reading, the biggest factor would be winning initiative, as that would allow the person going last to choose whether to fly close or far from the enemy fighter.

FenderSaxbey

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #10 on: 20 January 2021, 10:55:12 »
I think I'm missing something. How does this work? I've just re-read the air-to-air section of AS:CE, and I don't see how choosing a flight path point a bit to the left or right would make much of a difference in the engagement. Based on my reading, the biggest factor would be winning initiative, as that would allow the person going last to choose whether to fly close or far from the enemy fighter.
Because you have more control over your flight path than the heavier unit. If you can adjust your entry point 10 inches and they only get 3, you have an advantage. Assuming initiative works in your favor, you can set up your flight path so that it doesn't come close to the other fighter's or comes as close as you want.


I haven't used fighters in AS since the atmo map, but I say try it if you want to give a thrust advantage in your control rolls.

Weirdo

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #11 on: 20 January 2021, 11:15:08 »
I would suggest giving the standard rules a chance with a game or two, THEN decide if you want to house rule things.
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saab14

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #12 on: 20 January 2021, 11:26:57 »
Aye, that's usually my preference. I'll check in with the players and see what they think too.

Thanks all for the feedback.

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Re: Aerospace questions - maneuverability and off-board combat
« Reply #13 on: 20 January 2021, 19:43:36 »
Much like whether a Locust can get behind an Atlas in a 1v1 fight, it all comes down to initiative in that situation.

High thrust is most useful for avoiding ground fire; heavy fighters struggle to escape AA umbrellas while still participating in the battle.
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