help me design a ComGuard unit

[glitterboy2098]

so i bought the comguard sets from the last kickstarter, and i'm trying to work up a good set of comguards forces from them and some stuff from my collection that had been largely unused till now, but which fit the comguards.

i'm aiming at around 500pv for this force, since i'm using that as the standard size for all the AS forces i've been building.

this is the core of the force i'm trying to work up.. i would like to fit another pair of LvII formations so that when paired together i can have a full LvIII on the field during really big games.
ideally, i would like this to be a sort of defensive force. the kind of force that holds ground or advances gradually.

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Assault Lance:

Black Knight BL-9-KNT 37 Brawler (clanbuster)
Black Knight BL-6b-KNT 42 Brawler
Highlander HGN-732 48 Sniper
King Crab KGC-001 48 Juggernaut (gauss)
Thug THG-11Eb 41 Brawler
Crockett CRK-5003-1 46 Sniper
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262
one option i've considered is a battle lance of 2 Turhan IFVs, 2 other tanks, and a pair of Lv.I foot infantry units, probably SRM infantry. not sure what the other tanks would be. Magi's? Bulldogs? or go cheaper with Vedettes? or perhaps Shreks or Pikes?

and then use the rest of the points for a cheap fire support formation using Striker (LRM)'s or Hunter Tanks and upgrading the mech skills.


suggestions on units to fill out this force? i'm aiming for a Clan Invasion era force, so they can be useable across a most of the following eras. (and which could serve as WoB for Jihad scenarios)



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this is the finalized force i'vealready made, a mobile force that when pairs would be used as the hammer to the defensive force's anvil. feel free to comment on it too

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Probe lance:
(Skill 3) Crab CRB-27
(Skill 3) Flashman FLS-8K
(Skill 3) Lancelot LNC25-01
(Skill 3) Guillotine GLT-3N
(Skill 4) Exterminator EXT-4D
(Skill 4) Sentinel STN-3L

Cavalry Lance Formation
(Skill 3) Mongoose MON-66b
(Skill 4) Mercury MCY-97
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102

Light Recon Lance:
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)

Total PV: 500


[glitterboy2098]

how does:
2xTurhan
2x Demon Tank (standard)
2x Foot level I (laser)

and 6x Striker (LRM)

sound as supporting forces for that assault lance? that would be a battle lance formation and a fire support lance formation. and would leave enough Pv to upgrade two of the mechs and the infantry to Skill 3.

[Lanceman]

One thing that might be noted, is that generally speaking, ComStar doesn't have access to Royal variants, their Star League era mechs came from the main line units (though there are some exceptions: Wasp, Locust, and Ostscout looking at the MUL). Not a huge deal, and easily justifiable, but depending on how strict you want your force building might be something to adjust.

Outside of that, when thinking about bringing these together into a full Level III I think you're missing just a bog standard battle formation, though your probe Level II has similar makeup. Maybe a medium battle Level II, something to be on the line while the assault force spearheads and your faster units fill in gaps.

[glitterboy2098]

... darn you're right.
though according to the MUL the Black Knight BL-6b-KNT was available to comstar during the clan invasion period.

not sure how i missed that. (the mongoose and thug royal variants feel like logical 3050 era upgrades. still..)

guess that buys a few more PV to work with.
EDit: they're the same points costs? how?

[Lanceman]

It's an easy assumption to make. I really like the royal Black Knight myself, so I usually find a way to justify one popping up. 

[glitterboy2098]

As far as the battle formation thing.. with the probe lance being so heavy and the assualt lance being there, I wasn't too worried about it. And while the turhan/demon/infantry mix is unconventional, it is a battle lance formation technically. Though i could just for-go infantry and spread those 106-110ish points across a 6 vehicle conventional tank formation. I just liked the idea of having at least a touch of infantry in there, even if it isn't providing much combat power.
Maybe see if i can fit some IS standard BA instead?

[Hellraiser]

not sure how i missed that. (the mongoose and thug royal variants feel like logical 3050 era upgrades. still..)

guess that buys a few more PV to work with.
EDit: they're the same points costs? how?

My guess for Mongoose is XL structure loss v/s ERLL Range increase?

Thug PPCs reach Long & damage is the same so short of some heat changes its the same mech right?

[glitterboy2098]

perhaps. it just feels weird.

trying to decide on that battle lance..

the options i see:

• Turhan x2, Demon (Standard) x2, 2x Laser Infantry Lv.I (which means 4 bases of infantry at 7pts each)
• Turhan x2, Demon (Standard) x2, 2x IS standard BA squad (Laser, 4 suit squad)
• Neither of the Above, and go with 6x of some cheapish tank, like bulldogs or even Vedettes.

the Comguard in the clan invasion era didn't have BA of their own other than the largely useless Tornado PAL, but the IS general list includes IS standard BA in 4 man squads. it seems reasonable to me that the comguards would have obtained enough such suits to field a few units. comstar might not have the best inroads into NAIS, but once the Fedsuns started deploying them to troops at the front, i'm sure ROM could have diverted the odd shipment to the comguard.

[Lysenko]

I think you need couple of Kangas myself (says the man with a Lvl III of Kanga jump tanks). Just saying.

[glitterboy2098]

i've considered it but i already have a lot of hovercraft and fast units in the total force so not certain if that is the route i want to go

[glitterboy2098]

does putting all the faster, mobile units into one force make sense? or should i try to move the Gabriels over to support the assault Lv.II, and then move one of the other units (like the striker LRM unit, which is pretty close to the same points) over to support the cavalry side? so the slower heavy hitter force still has a mobile element even when deployed on its own?



basically the current set up:

Mobile element, 500 pv

Code: [Select]

Probe lance Formation LV.II:
(Skill 3) Crab CRB-27
(Skill 3) Flashman FLS-8K
(Skill 3) Lancelot LNC25-01
(Skill 3) Guillotine GLT-3N
(Skill 4) Exterminator EXT-4D
(Skill 4) Sentinel STN-3L

Cavalry Lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 3) Mongoose MON-66b
(Skill 4) Mercury MCY-97
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102

Light Recon Lance Formation Lv.II:
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)

Total PV: 500
and then the 'anvil' element, 499 PV

Code: [Select]

Assault Lance Formation Lv.II
(Skill 3) Black Knight BL-9-KNT
(Skill 3) Black Knight BL-6-KNT
(Skill 3) King Crab KGC-001
(Skill 3) Thug THG-11E
(Skill 3) Highlander HGN-732
(Skill 4) Crockett CRK-5003-1

Battle Lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 4) Demon Tank
(Skill 4) Demon Tank
(Skill 4) Turhan Urban Combat Vehicle
(Skill 4) Turhan Urban Combat Vehicle
(Skill 4) IS Standard Battle Armor [Laser] (Sqd 4)
(Skill 4) IS Standard Battle Armor [Laser] (Sqd 4)

Fire Support lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 4) Striker Light Tank (LRM)
(Skill 4) Striker Light Tank (LRM)
(Skill 4) Striker Light Tank (LRM)
(Skill 4) Striker Light Tank (LRM)
(Skill 4) Striker Light Tank (LRM)
(Skill 4) Striker Light Tank (LRM)

[glitterboy2098]

2023 update:
having gotten the commanders edition of AS, and spent time studying comguard stuff due to this thread, i decided to revist my LvIII...

decided the Demon tanks were just too pricy, so downgraded to a pair of Bulldogs. it loses a bit of firepower but still works as a support for the unit. which also saw the BA removed for a pair of foot LvI's.. MG and SRM. i also downgraded the skills on 4 of the 6 mechs to standard levels. this freed me up enough PV to upgrade the Fire support LvII to a quartet of LRM carriers (which offsets the loss of the Demon Tanks some) and a pair of Trident ASF's, since apparently LvIII's are supposed to have integral ASF support. and with the commanders edition, ASF's might not be as much of a hassle to include.


honestly this does feel a little more themetic for the Comguards, though if anyone has suggests for ways to suffle the units around a bit (or more comstar-ish alternatives for some of the vehicles in a similar role and PV) let me know..

Code: [Select]

Assault Lance Formation Lv.II
(Skill 4) Black Knight BL-9-KNT
(Skill 4) Black Knight BL-6-KNT
(Skill 3) King Crab KGC-001
(Skill 4) Thug THG-11E
(Skill 3) Highlander HGN-732
(Skill 4) Crockett CRK-5003-1

Battle Lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 4) Bulldog Medium Tank
(Skill 4) Bulldog Medium Tank
(Skill 4) Turhan Urban Combat Vehicle
(Skill 4) Turhan Urban Combat Vehicle
(Skill 5) Foot Level I (1/2) (MG)
(Skill 5) Foot Level I (1/2) (MG)
(Skill 5) Foot Level I (1/2) (SRM)
(Skill 5) Foot Level I (1/2) (SRM)

Fire Support lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 4) LRM Carrier
(Skill 4) LRM Carrier
(Skill 4) LRM Carrier
(Skill 4) LRM Carrier
(Skill 4) Trident TRN-3T
(Skill 4) Trident TRN-3T

Total PV: 499



Code: [Select]

Probe lance Formation LV.II:
(Skill 3) Crab CRB-27
(Skill 3) Flashman FLS-8K
(Skill 3) Lancelot LNC25-01
(Skill 3) Guillotine GLT-3N
(Skill 4) Exterminator EXT-4D
(Skill 4) Sentinel STN-3L

Cavalry Lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 3) Mongoose MON-66b
(Skill 4) Mercury MCY-97
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102

Light Recon Lance Formation Lv.II:
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard)

Total PV: 500


[MyndkryM]

Just some thoughts about your allotment of skill levels. If a unit is primarily going to engage another unit within the short range band, spending the PV for that skill bump might be better utilized on a unit that will primarily fight at the long and medium range bands.

That Mongoose with it's 16" move is going to be able to position itself well to exploit it's short range band...and you're likely to find yourself needing 5s and 6s to hit at skill level 4 at that range. Now your LRM Carriers are SLOW and will most likely engage units using it's medium band...so we are looking at 6s and 7s at skill level 3. (I'm making some assumptions; like target TMM is 1 or 2 and excluding terrain and movement modifiers).

Something to think about.

[glitterboy2098]

unfortunately since i'm doing this as two 500pv forces (mostly to conform to my other AS lists) i can't really drop the mongoose to boost the LRM carriers. but i could drop the mongoos's skill to boost something else in that force.

would droppign the skills on the king crab and highlander to boost the LRm carriers be worth the trade off?

[MyndkryM]

would droppign the skills on the king crab and highlander to boost the LRm carriers be worth the trade off?

I don't think so...Keeping them each at 500PV limits things, but all in all I dig the force 

[glitterboy2098]

debating whether to try and scrounge up one point from somewhere in the heavier force to upgrade the fighter's to 24pv ones.. Sabres or Zeroes, most liekly. mostly because there is no Trident mini.

alternately, just admitting defeat, rolling them into on 1000pv force so i can use spare points from the lighter LvII's, and working out a smaller 500pv alternate build by shuffling LvII's around.

[glitterboy2098]

hmm.. making them a single 1000pv force allows for 4 of the heavy mechs to be brought up to skill 3 (and the lighter ones dropped to 4) as well as all 4 of the LRM carriers.

Code: [Select]

Probe lance Formation LV.II:
(Skill 4) Crab CRB-27 29
(Skill 4) Flashman FLS-8K 41
(Skill 4) Lancelot LNC25-01 33
(Skill 4) Guillotine GLT-3N 35
(Skill 4) Exterminator EXT-4D 37
(Skill 4) Sentinel STN-3L 23

Cavalry Lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 4) Mongoose MON-66 30
(Skill 4) Mercury MCY-97 24
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102 31
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102 31
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102 31
(Skill 4) Galleon GAL-102 31

Light Recon Lance Formation Lv.II:
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard) 15
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard) 15
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard) 15
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard) 15
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard) 15
(Skill 4) Gabriel hover (Standard) 15

Assault Lance Formation Lv.II
(Skill 4) Black Knight BL-9-KNT 37
(Skill 4) Black Knight BL-6-KNT 39
(Skill 3) King Crab KGC-001 58
(Skill 3) Thug THG-11E 49
(Skill 3) Highlander HGN-732 56
(Skill 3) Crockett CRK-5003-1 55

Battle Lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 4) Bulldog Medium Tank 17
(Skill 4) Bulldog Medium Tank 17
(Skill 4) Turhan Urban Combat Vehicle 18
(Skill 4) Turhan Urban Combat Vehicle 18
(Skill 5) Foot Level I (1/2) (MG) 3
(Skill 5) Foot Level I (1/2) (MG) 3
(Skill 5) Foot Level I (1/2) (SRM) 6
(Skill 5) Foot Level I (1/2) (SRM) 6

Fire Support lance Formation LV.II
(Skill 3) LRM Carrier 26
(Skill 3) LRM Carrier 26
(Skill 3) LRM Carrier 26
(Skill 3) LRM Carrier 26
(Skill 4) Trident TRN-3T 23
(Skill 4) Trident TRN-3T 23

Total PV: 998

with the alternate 500pv force being the probe formation, battle formation, and fire support formation, plus about 50 some pv to manipulate skills or include additional stuff.



thinking background wise i might use the 167th division, with this being originally an ad-hoc formation created for tukayyid as an anti-clan measure (thus explainign why it doesn't fit any of the standard comguard unit mixes, with less infantry and more mechs and vees), which got kept during the rebuilding. then when the 167th got disbanded during the FCCW and joined the 4th Crucis Lancers, it became a merc unit instead. (sort of a pro-comstar analog to the Broadsword legion)

or maybe the 244th, and invent a post-FCCW existence for them.

[Tallgiraffe]

Have you considered Chevalier Light Tanks?