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Author Topic: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike  (Read 1098 times)

MarauderD

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How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« on: 16 July 2022, 13:36:56 »
Looks like I’ll be facing two aerospace units tomorrow.  I currently am about to field two stars of mechs.  Is there a ground bAsed counter to Aeros in Alpha strike or am I better off fielding my own?

Richard S.

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #1 on: 16 July 2022, 13:57:57 »
For things specifically designed to fight aerospace, the FLK special (or AC Flack ammo if you're using alternate munitions) lets you get in some more reliable chip damage. In general though just keep up the pressure and eventually they'll either take a bad crit through their threshhold or fail enough control rolls to come crashing down. What sorts of units are they?

Edit: missed the most obvious pick of all if you're worried about aerospace - the anti-aircraft specialist SCA to make the buggers easier to hit.
« Last Edit: 16 July 2022, 14:03:03 by Richard S. »

MarauderD

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #2 on: 16 July 2022, 13:58:47 »
Don’t know yet, suspect Shilones….

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #3 on: 16 July 2022, 20:12:40 »
Pray your opponent is using them for the first time as well.  :D :D

Range helps. Aero moves after everything else, so spreading your arcs around helps I’d guess. Also their attacks need to be on targets within one inch on either side of the flight path so being spread out can limit the damage, and doubly so when they have a bomb load.

Don’t know yet, suspect Shilones….

A solid guess
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MarauderD

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #4 on: 16 July 2022, 20:31:39 »
Pray your opponent is using them for the first time as well.  :D :D

Range helps. Aero moves after everything else, so spreading your arcs around helps I’d guess. Also their attacks need to be on targets within one inch on either side of the flight path so being spread out can limit the damage, and doubly so when they have a bomb load.

A solid guess

Ha!  Looking forward to the match tomorrow! :thumbsup:

MarauderD

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #5 on: 18 July 2022, 13:17:53 »
Post match:  The Shilones seal clubbed me. 

Good news:  two stars of Omnis and a Star of Elementals meant I had the advantage on ground units. 

Bad News:  Inferno and scatter bombs took out two elemental points and did a number on one of my Omnis.  Striking and strafing attacks also hurt quite a bit.  I put some damage into both planes, but they never failed a control roll, and couldn't really find all the rules for control rolls while we were playing either. 

Neither here nor there news:  unlike adding vehicles or BattleArmor, it seemed (first time with them) that Aeros really slowed down the game.  We only played 7 rounds total and it took like 4.5 hours!

Scotty

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #6 on: 18 July 2022, 13:24:26 »
Aero changed significantly between the original split books and the Commanders Edition, but in the CE the penalty for failing a control roll (there is a +2 penalty for being in atmosphere) is immediately dropping an altitude (so at low altitude is instantly fatal) and being prohibited from climbing to a higher altitude in the next movement phase.

Their only real defense is range, by way of altitude, so their choices are to either accept risk in order to do damage or avoid risk and potentially contribute very little to the battle.
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MarauderD

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #7 on: 18 July 2022, 13:53:14 »
Aero changed significantly between the original split books and the Commanders Edition, but in the CE the penalty for failing a control roll (there is a +2 penalty for being in atmosphere) is immediately dropping an altitude (so at low altitude is instantly fatal) and being prohibited from climbing to a higher altitude in the next movement phase.

Their only real defense is range, by way of altitude, so their choices are to either accept risk in order to do damage or avoid risk and potentially contribute very little to the battle.

Thanks Scotty.  Then we were doing the control rolls right.  His Veteran Shilones made both of theirs--I was able to hit them when they came low to strafe, but my threshold rolls and crit rolls only amounted to a fire control hit, and they continued to contribute throughout the whole match. 

Scotty

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #8 on: 18 July 2022, 14:23:18 »
Yeah, for heavily armored fighters I would recommend selling out to make them pay for their first go, and your opponent will either lose them outright or have to be more cautious in follow up turns.
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ianpelgrim

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #9 on: 19 July 2022, 06:47:50 »
Vehicles with turrets and infantry so that the aerospace is always within arc.

Church14

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #10 on: 19 July 2022, 08:37:15 »
For future play, if Aeros are coming, keep your units more line abreast than clumps or in a column relative to your enemy. Make it so the Aeros can only hit 1-2 targets at best. Most critically, do this until they’ve blown their bombs. Then you can clump a little tighter, but still be wary or strafing

glitterboy2098

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #11 on: 19 July 2022, 19:56:33 »
honestly the best counter to ASF's may be ASF's of your own.

Charistoph

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #12 on: 20 July 2022, 00:13:21 »
honestly the best counter to ASF's may be ASF's of your own.

That reminds me of quote from a Saturday morning cartoon with Jackie Chan.  "Magic must defeat Magic!"

In BT talk, that becomes, "ASFs must defeat ASFs!"
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Elmoth

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #13 on: 20 July 2022, 02:03:22 »
honestly the best counter to ASF's may be ASF's of your own.

Not anymore  right? There is no ASF map in ASCE. I have not used them in ASCE (we have been using the simplified rules for supokrt points) but my impression is that air on air was no longer a factor

Scotty

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #14 on: 20 July 2022, 03:32:37 »
Air on air can still occur and is by far the most reliable way to force a close range engagement.  Aerospace units still draw flightpaths, and the distance between those flight paths' closest points (modified by difference in altitude) determines the range of the engagement.  Engagement rolls still occur to determine tailing.
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MyndkryM

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #15 on: 20 July 2022, 10:44:26 »
Yeah, for heavily armored fighters I would recommend selling out to make them pay for their first go, and your opponent will either lose them outright or have to be more cautious in follow up turns.

What do you mean by selling out?
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MarauderD

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #16 on: 20 July 2022, 11:25:49 »
What do you mean by selling out?

I assume he means by focusing on them early to put some damage into them/take them out.  As it happened in the match, they started at High altitude for bombing, and didn't come down to low altitude until round 2 or 3 IIRC.  Most of my pilots were Skill 4, so I didn't make much attempt to attack them until they strafed/attacked targets at low altitude in rounds 4 and 5. 

nckestrel

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #17 on: 20 July 2022, 11:36:58 »
I assume he means by focusing on them early to put some damage into them/take them out.  As it happened in the match, they started at High altitude for bombing, and didn't come down to low altitude until round 2 or 3 IIRC.  Most of my pilots were Skill 4, so I didn't make much attempt to attack them until they strafed/attacked targets at low altitude in rounds 4 and 5.

Just walking through this scenario myself to see what was happening.
Bombers: High Altitude (+30") is long range.  Skill 4 + 4 long +1 area effect + 0 altitude bombing = 9s (or better if better skill)?
Anti-Air: Within 12" of flight path would be long range (30" on flight path, 30" + 12" =42" max long range).  Skill 4 + Long 4 + 2 airborne aerospace = 10s?

Not anymore  right? There is no ASF map in ASCE. I have not used them in ASCE (we have been using the simplified rules for supokrt points) but my impression is that air on air was no longer a factor
Air units can attack other air units still. 
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MarauderD

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #18 on: 20 July 2022, 12:08:07 »
Just walking through this scenario myself to see what was happening.
Bombers: High Altitude (+30") is long range.  Skill 4 + 4 long +1 area effect + 0 altitude bombing = 9s (or better if better skill)?
Anti-Air: Within 12" of flight path would be long range (30" on flight path, 30" + 12" =42" max long range).  Skill 4 + Long 4 + 2 airborne aerospace = 10s?

He had veteran pilots in his Shilones, so he was bombing on 8s.  He got two hits through lucky scatter with Inferno and cluster.  His other Shilone had less lucky scatter, but still hit with Inferno, IIRC.

For anti Air, my Skill 3 Timber Wolf A hit him for 8 points later in the match when he strafed, but couldn't muster any better than a fire control crit.  The following round the other Shilone got hit by a Skill 4 Gargoyle C when it was performing a striking attack. I again use OV to put 7 points of damage into it.  No crit from thresholding or getting structure. 

If I had to guess, his Shilones and his 2 LRM carriers put out more damage than his Striker Lance or Command Lance.  In fact, if my opponent had remembered that he could put his tanks into a Battle Lance and used his 6 points of lucky, I think the match might have swung the other way. 

I had only 2 veteran pilots, and for the most part, I was trying to focus fire on his most dangerous ground units every turn.  Aerospace definitely added a new dimension to the match, but also slowed it down to the newness of the concepts.  I think we only managed 6 or 7 turns in a 4 hour game (we normally do 10 rounds in about 3.5 hours). 

MyndkryM

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #19 on: 20 July 2022, 12:18:55 »
Did any in your AA Star have the FLK special? Using nckestrel's math FLK 'Mechs would be able to hit on 8s???

Anyway....this is a bit of an eye opener and seems to me that the counter is fielding a point of Aerospace to bounce opposing Aero.

Thanks for sharing....it's a good read.
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Are the Souls of all dead Troopers camped,
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MarauderD

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #20 on: 20 July 2022, 12:34:08 »
Did any in your AA Star have the FLK special? Using nckestrel's math FLK 'Mechs would be able to hit on 8s???

Anyway....this is a bit of an eye opener and seems to me that the counter is fielding a point of Aerospace to bounce opposing Aero.

Thanks for sharing....it's a good read.

Yes--I fielded a Hellbringer B.  Unfortunately, i fielded it because it was cheap at 35 points for a skill 4 pilot.  Further, I thought it was Flk 1/1/1--but it was actually FLK 0*.  It ended up not mattering in the slightest.  That mech was in the Inferno radius on Turn 1, so built up 2 heat. 

By the time I shed the heat, he proceeded to attack more high value units:  my Executioner A was the commander so he was one of his objectives, and the Timber Wolf A was my best performer on the board.  He was also reasonably wary of the Gargoyle C--so those three mechs were featured in a lot of his striking and strafing attacks. 

glitterboy2098

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #21 on: 20 July 2022, 16:17:02 »
Yes--I fielded a Hellbringer B.  Unfortunately, i fielded it because it was cheap at 35 points for a skill 4 pilot.  Further, I thought it was Flk 1/1/1--but it was actually FLK 0*.  It ended up not mattering in the slightest.  That mech was in the Inferno radius on Turn 1, so built up 2 heat. 

By the time I shed the heat, he proceeded to attack more high value units:  my Executioner A was the commander so he was one of his objectives, and the Timber Wolf A was my best performer on the board.  He was also reasonably wary of the Gargoyle C--so those three mechs were featured in a lot of his striking and strafing attacks.

I'd have gone with the Loki F. FLK 1/1/1 thanks to a pair of LB10x's. and a 5/5/2 damage profile over all. it's 4 pts more expensive though.

MarauderD

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #22 on: 20 July 2022, 17:12:43 »
I'd have gone with the Loki F. FLK 1/1/1 thanks to a pair of LB10x's. and a 5/5/2 damage profile over all. it's 4 pts more expensive though.

That would have been perfect.  I would have tweaked something else to take that as an AA unit.  As it was, I had incorrectly thought that anything after the B was from a different era.  I'll definitely keep it mind for next time. 

glitterboy2098

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Re: How to counter Aerospace fighters in Alpha Strike
« Reply #23 on: 20 July 2022, 18:28:12 »
That would have been perfect.  I would have tweaked something else to take that as an AA unit.  As it was, I had incorrectly thought that anything after the B was from a different era.  I'll definitely keep it mind for next time.
to be fair, a lot of them are. but the F has a 3054 intro date. and honestly, none of the tech on it is post invasion so you could probably get away with it even earlier, you'd just have to claim its a pilot's custom config rather than being one of the standardized selections.
« Last Edit: 20 July 2022, 18:30:29 by glitterboy2098 »

 

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