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Author Topic: Lucky: reroll a reroll?  (Read 414 times)

Captain Punka

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Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« on: 22 November 2021, 12:53:08 »
I'm sorry if this has been answered.  I can't figure out how to search only the "Alpha Strike" forum and clicking through 5 pages did not find the answer.

Can I use Lucky SPA to reroll a failed reroll?

My interpretation of the rules does not clarify this.  They do say "The second roll result stands, even if it fails or is worse than the first." However, I read that to mean you can't reroll and then choose to take the first result instead.  I don't see anywhere that explicitly says if you can reroll a reroll.

Captain Punka

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #1 on: 24 November 2021, 11:58:41 »
I'll take the lack of a response as an indication there is no official ruling on whether one can reroll a reroll.

So let me ask this.  How do you all play in your groups on this matter?

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #2 on: 24 November 2021, 12:11:48 »
The rulebook is pretty clear on the subject:

Quote
It’s not really skill that’s placing this pilot’s shots, but nobody
cares as long as he gets the job done. For every point spent on
purchasing this special pilot ability, this unit may reroll 1 failed
attack roll or 1 failed Control Roll per scenario. The second roll result
stands, even if it fails or is worse than the first.

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Captain Punka

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #3 on: 24 November 2021, 16:37:22 »
I respectfully disagree.

The rule you quoted, as I suggested in my initial post, IMO if referring to that first roll.

In other words, say I roll a "6".  Then, I use a reroll and get a "4".  That rule you quote is stating I cannot then ignore the "4" I rolled and revert back to the initial "6".

That rule does not state I can't use another reroll. 

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #4 on: 24 November 2021, 16:55:07 »
I take it to mean you have to take the rerolled result even if it is worse, and you cannot reroll.
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victor_shaw

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #5 on: 24 November 2021, 16:58:08 »
I take it to mean you have to take the rerolled result even if it is worse, and you cannot reroll.

Same.
And this would be the standard interpretation in all other games I have ever played if not otherwise addressed, so I'm confused at the confusion.

Scotty

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #6 on: 24 November 2021, 17:35:13 »
Am I missing another way to reroll?  I feel like I remember Lucky being limited to one use per unit per turn, which makes this whole question moot unless there's another reroll source I'm not aware of.
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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #7 on: 24 November 2021, 17:56:11 »
Am I missing another way to reroll?  I feel like I remember Lucky being limited to one use per unit per turn, which makes this whole question moot unless there's another reroll source I'm not aware of.

I directly quoted the text in ASCE, IIRC in BattleTech you can use multiple Lucky points in the same phase, just on different attack/piloting rolls.
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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #8 on: 24 November 2021, 18:01:23 »
I found this in the Alpha Strike Companion:

Quote
The Battle Lance formation receives the
equivalent of a 6-point Lucky Special Pilot Ability (see p. 54),
except that it is useable by any unit in the Battle Lance, rather
than limited to any single unit. This formation ability need not be
assigned to specific units, and may thus be called upon after a
failed attack or Control roll desired (to a maximum of 6 times for
the entire formation). As with the normal Lucky SPA, only one reroll
per failed attack or Control roll is possible.


But that text was rewritten slightly for ASCE and the bolded section isn't there any more.
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Captain Punka

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #9 on: 24 November 2021, 18:12:31 »
I think the clarification in the formation wording (e.g. "...only one reroll per failed attack or Control roll is possible") clarifies things.  Apparently I'm in the minority, but without that wording in the SPA section for lucky, IMO, is unclear.  However, the formation ability makes RAI obvious.

Captain Punka

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #10 on: 24 November 2021, 18:13:40 »
Scotty - I see no such wording under Lucky - i.e. limiting it to one per turn, etc.

Oh, I just noticed how Lorcan points out the bolded text was removed.  IMO, that text is needed to remove the doubt I am referring to.  But, if you all think that is how it currently reads, while I respectfully disagree that a literal interpretation of the wording under Lucky *infers* that, I defer to group consensus.
« Last Edit: 24 November 2021, 18:19:22 by Captain Punka »

Captain Punka

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #11 on: 24 November 2021, 18:30:12 »
Same.
And this would be the standard interpretation in all other games I have ever played if not otherwise addressed, so I'm confused at the confusion.

Setting your dismissive tone aside, it is not true that "all other games" do not allow a reroll of a reroll.  I can name several.  In a BGG post, one poster states this which may more eloquently make my point -->

>>I'm pretty sure the "You must accept the second result" is a way to ensure people don't think they get to roll twice and then choose which result they wanted.

There is no reason that another item or ability would not let you reroll a die just because it had already been rerolled.<<

victor_shaw

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #12 on: 24 November 2021, 18:50:24 »
Setting your dismissive tone aside, it is not true that "all other games" do not allow a reroll of a reroll.  I can name several.  In a BGG post, one poster states this which may more eloquently make my point -->

>>I'm pretty sure the "You must accept the second result" is a way to ensure people don't think they get to roll twice and then choose which result they wanted.

There is no reason that another item or ability would not let you reroll a die just because it had already been rerolled.<<


I don't remember nor does the text you quotes state that your are not ever allow a reroll of a reroll using a different ability. The statement was that the wording "The second roll result stands, even if it fails or is worse than the first." already precludes another rerolls from this ability, which was the question you asked. If you have others that would override this, that is a different story. But you question was about if you could reroll the reroll within this ability, not using other abilities.

victor_shaw

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #13 on: 24 November 2021, 18:59:23 »
Setting your dismissive tone aside, it is not true that "all other games" do not allow a reroll of a reroll.

As for this, part please show me a game where you can keep reroll a reroll using the same ability. (especially one with the "The second roll result stands, etc" statement)
This would result in just rolling until you get what you want, so what would be the point?
That's why I was confused.

nckestrel

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #14 on: 24 November 2021, 19:08:41 »
I'll take the lack of a response as an indication there is no official ruling on whether one can reroll a reroll.

So let me ask this.  How do you all play in your groups on this matter?

If you were looking for an official ruling, it seems like a huge waste of time to not ask in the official rules questions forum. Like a duck asking for grapes at an orange juice stand.
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Captain Punka

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #15 on: 24 November 2021, 19:13:49 »
Hi nckestrel,

Apologies, I honestly did not know there was an official rules forum dedicated to Alpha.  Can you please link it?

nckestrel

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #16 on: 24 November 2021, 19:14:33 »
Left of Center blog - Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets, Combat Manual Lite series [Steiner, Liao, Marik, Calderon, Invading Clans, Comstar. Also Record Sheets for the CM: Kurita and CM: Mercs unique pilots]

Captain Punka

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Re: Lucky: reroll a reroll?
« Reply #17 on: 24 November 2021, 19:15:20 »
Thanks!

 

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