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Author Topic: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations  (Read 1048 times)

MechWarriorFox

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Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« on: 24 January 2021, 23:10:37 »
So, my Battletech group has been playing with Alpha Strike for a few months now (and I introduced everyone else to the 'fun' that is aerospace fighters on ground targets) and cheese has started to creep up on us for our eventual Jihad campaign.

Now, the situation we've started to have is that some players have been spamming on field artillery and aerospace assets in their unit lists. One list had something on the order of 14 cheap fighters and another had an actual artillery battery on the field. Due to the annoyance of the former and the devastation of the latter, it turns the games unfun, especially if the local meta becomes 'tank, artillery, and aerospace spam'.

So, our leader -who is an attorney- has started placing limitations on what we can field on-board.
  • You can bring your entire squadron of aerospace assets into a game if you can pay for it, but you can't have more than four on-board at a time.
  • On-field artillery can't use pre-sighted artillery zones.
  • You can only bring two (or four, dealing with a cold at the time of this posting) artillery pieces onto the board, at all.
  • Artillery and aerospace assets can't get a target roll better than 6. Ever.
Have any of you been having this problem and how did you solve it?

FenderSaxbey

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #1 on: 24 January 2021, 23:17:43 »
Limits seem to be the only real solution other than banning the units outright. Honestly, I'd set more aggressive limits (only 2 AS for every 4 or 5 mechs, etc). Fast hovers and arty are just a pain unless people agree to be good sports. Otherwise your game of stompy robots becomes a game of 9PV vehicles and Arrow IV rain.

MechWarriorFox

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #2 on: 24 January 2021, 23:27:11 »
Limits seem to be the only real solution other than banning the units outright. Honestly, I'd set more aggressive limits (only 2 AS for every 4 or 5 mechs, etc). Fast hovers and arty are just a pain unless people agree to be good sports. Otherwise your game of stompy robots becomes a game of 9PV vehicles and Arrow IV rain.
Yeah, that's what we're thinking, although I wanted to see what the community has done to combat this problem first, you know to make sure we're doing things on the right track.

Valkerie

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #3 on: 24 January 2021, 23:30:40 »
Limits are the answer.  My goal with the group is to make sure everyone has fun playing.  No one I've played with has pushed things into cheese territory, but I've had to make changes following a few scenarios after seeing the potential for something creeping in.
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MechWarriorFox

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #4 on: 24 January 2021, 23:55:34 »
Limits are the answer.  My goal with the group is to make sure everyone has fun playing.  No one I've played with has pushed things into cheese territory, but I've had to make changes following a few scenarios after seeing the potential for something creeping in.
Good to know.

Elmoth

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #5 on: 25 January 2021, 03:31:57 »
Same here. My group hasn't had this problem, buy we are more casual I guess.

If you want to have. Game of stompy robots, making mechs the benchmark (X unit of That type per mech in your force") seems the way to go.

Other potential limits could be that only mechs (and maybe infantry) count for capturing objectives.

Regarding the ASF... You ar using the threshold system, right? That reduces add fast.

Plan B to all that is to use the commanders edition virtual asf & arty rules. We have used them and they work pretty well.

Cannonshop

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #6 on: 06 February 2021, 04:58:47 »
So, my Battletech group has been playing with Alpha Strike for a few months now (and I introduced everyone else to the 'fun' that is aerospace fighters on ground targets) and cheese has started to creep up on us for our eventual Jihad campaign.

Now, the situation we've started to have is that some players have been spamming on field artillery and aerospace assets in their unit lists. One list had something on the order of 14 cheap fighters and another had an actual artillery battery on the field. Due to the annoyance of the former and the devastation of the latter, it turns the games unfun, especially if the local meta becomes 'tank, artillery, and aerospace spam'.

So, our leader -who is an attorney- has started placing limitations on what we can field on-board.
  • You can bring your entire squadron of aerospace assets into a game if you can pay for it, but you can't have more than four on-board at a time.
  • On-field artillery can't use pre-sighted artillery zones.
  • You can only bring two (or four, dealing with a cold at the time of this posting) artillery pieces onto the board, at all.
  • Artillery and aerospace assets can't get a target roll better than 6. Ever.
Have any of you been having this problem and how did you solve it?

Looks to me like maybe you should just ban the types outright.

2 and 4 on your list mess directly with the game mechanics arbitrarily, so you're straight up playing with house rules instead of scenario limits.

For scenario limitations, have you considered playing something other than straight up duelling?  Arty and air strikes end up being "Less than optimal" when you need to capture something fragile intact, such as an HPG station or the contents of a factory, or in scenarios where collateral damage can cause problems later in the campaign.  ("Congratulations, jackass, you greased a grade school with your artillery scatter")

or try fighting a few scenarios where artillery and air-strikes aren't useful, such as inside a domed city, or a large cavern system, or underwater.

The more variable your terrain and scenarios are, the less likely someone is to hyperfocus on the 'Won true build'.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Kibutsu

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #7 on: 17 February 2021, 18:17:02 »
What type of campaign are you going to be running? Sounds like you need a dedicated GM to set rules and/or limitations based on the scenarios being played. If you're just doing points balanced scenarios where players can field anything they want it seems more like a series of pickup games rather than a campaign.

If your campaign battles are played as if they were part of some action happening in a larger context, for instance, maybe come up with a system for determining whether or not battlefield support like arty and air is even available. I think the new Tukayyid book actually has rules for this.

MechWarriorFox

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #8 on: 25 February 2021, 23:30:21 »
What type of campaign are you going to be running? Sounds like you need a dedicated GM to set rules and/or limitations based on the scenarios being played. If you're just doing points balanced scenarios where players can field anything they want it seems more like a series of pickup games rather than a campaign.

If your campaign battles are played as if they were part of some action happening in a larger context, for instance, maybe come up with a system for determining whether or not battlefield support like arty and air is even available. I think the new Tukayyid book actually has rules for this.
Well, here's the current version (1.6) but I'm not playing it anymore. Which reminds me, I've got to go to the CGL forums for alpha strike for a possible rule exploit.

Descronan

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #9 on: 14 May 2021, 12:00:07 »
I've written a campaign guide and we had similar problem units. Unit spamming is always a problem when you find that one tactic that works well.

We limited starting units to no more than 2 of a kind. Then we limited purchases of new units to one of a kind for each phase of the campaign. You could buy a different variant, but not the same exact one. And we limited the available era and faction from the MUL.

We have also been adding weather and visual spotting range to the game which obscures units until you have a valid LOS. The last game we played, neither side got close enough to identify the opponent units. It made it more difficult to ID the biggest threats.

Unfortunately, your link expired before I could read your guide. :(

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AklNsqpmK2WOja98ZViYKFXG65VhEw?e=WCVFms

Schadelgesicht

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Re: Question: Artillery and Aerospace limitations
« Reply #10 on: 27 May 2021, 08:54:03 »


We have also been adding weather and visual spotting range to the game which obscures units until you have a valid LOS. The last game we played, neither side got close enough to identify the opponent units. It made it more difficult to ID the biggest threats.



I'm Going to need to do this in my groups games soon. The Artillery and Aerospace assets are getting out of control. I've got one player that basically spam's long toms since he has a 3d printer. It was funny the first couple of games but now it is getting old fast. thanks for the advice to stop the Arty shenanigan's.
Success is not final;
Failure is not fatal:
It is the courage to continue that counts.

~Winston Churchill