Register Register

Author Topic: Questions on aerospace support, displacement, and stacking for hex play.  (Read 2408 times)

abou

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1780
FearFactory and I were playing a game that included Aerospace support for the first time. This brought up a few questions.

1. How many strafing/striking runs can be performed? In many old scenario books they often state that there can be two runs performed per scenario, but we didn't see any actual game limits written in Alpha Strike or Total Warfare. In fact, fuel consumption doesn't even come up. If an aerospace fighter can make as many runs as possible while not overhearting, that drastically changes how it is viewed as an asset.

2. Bombing and area of effect are a bit different in AS than TW. In TW, a high explosive bomb deals damage to a single hex while a cluster bomb deals damage to a center hex and the six surrounding hexes. In AS for table-top play, high explosive has a 2" radius and clusters a 6" radius. That does not translate directly and cleanly to hexes, but there is also no stacking in AS.

3. Should stacking make a return for hex play in AS?

4. Is there displacement of units for charging and DFA attacks? We had a situation where a Spider charged a Jagermech on top of a mountain. In TW, the successful charge would have knocked the Jagermech down for a three level fall, but nothing seems written in AS about displacement. Was it kept out to simplify rules?

Fear Factory

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4040
  • Designing the Enemy
FearFactory and I were playing a game that included Aerospace support for the first time. This brought up a few questions.

AND it was the worst game I ever played.  Totally slaughtered.   :D

3. Should stacking make a return for hex play in AS?

I second this, only because hex play is essentially down-scaled and a hybrid of TW and AS hex play.

4. Is there displacement of units for charging and DFA attacks? We had a situation where a Spider charged a Jagermech on top of a mountain. In TW, the successful charge would have knocked the Jagermech down for a three level fall, but nothing seems written in AS about displacement. Was it kept out to simplify rules?

For me, in AS miniature rules (or core rules, I guess) I understand why it was omitted.

Hex play is a little shady.

I was thinking that in hex play the charging unit needs to be able to occupy the target hex at the end of movement (like in TW hex play).  The target is then pushed back.  I was totally wrong, it's a hard habit to kill because I was HUGE on physicals in BattleTech.  Give me a Banshee, Cicada, Charger, Assassin...

I was thinking that the spider would take the hex and the Jager would have fallen 3 hexes.  The issue was damage.  The way it stands, you don't take the hex and the target is not displaced.  That was a nice surprise.  Way after the game, I was looking at the Collision/Charging chart, and figured that a suitable way to come up with it would be to go off of Size 3 - 6" (2 damage).  SO, the Spider caused 1 damage on his hit, occupied the hex, took 1 damage from the Jager, then the Jager would have suffered another 2 damage from the fall (level 6 to level 3 - 6" fall).

Being able to "push" units like this could be really useful in AS.  I don't think it overly complicates anything since this situation only comes up when you charge your target off a cliff, into water, etc.
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

iamfanboy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
1) I never saw anywhere any restriction - just that you can't perform bombing and strafing in the same round. So, yes, AF units are mighty strong and important, to the point that every force at my tables includes at least two. Usually just interceptors, but the one game I brought a Hydaspes for fun.... well, I lost it to a lawndart check, but the damage it did on strafing runs was WORTH IT.

Fear Factory

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4040
  • Designing the Enemy
1) I never saw anywhere any restriction - just that you can't perform bombing and strafing in the same round. So, yes, AF units are mighty strong and important, to the point that every force at my tables includes at least two. Usually just interceptors, but the one game I brought a Hydaspes for fun.... well, I lost it to a lawndart check, but the damage it did on strafing runs was WORTH IT.

Yeah man, I really liked running a fighter the last game.  First time I ever tried it.  AS makes it quick and deadly.  My poor Catapult can attest to that...  :D
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10576
The only restrictions are in movement l.  You need time to get to the Central Zone.  Once there and you make your attack, you can't stay in the same zone next turn.  So you have to leave the turn after you strike/strafe or bomb, and then come back the next turn after that.
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

NeonKnight

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6041
  • Lemme Talk to the Manager!
Yeah, I'm thinking Bomb AOEs may need errata to make more sense.

From Page 57:
Quote
High Explosive (HE) Bombs: HE bombs deliver 2 points of damage to all ground targets within an AOE of 2 inches from the point of impact.
Cluster Bombs: Cluster bombs deliver 1 point of damage to all ground targets within an AOE of 6 inches from the point of impact.

Now, the rules state the AOE (diameter) is 2 inches, not a radius, but then goes on to say within 2 inches of the point of impact. However, if you compare with the Diagram on page 56, the shaded AOE of the bombs are clearly 2 inches.

And if one were to convert the 2 inch and 6 inch AOE's to hexes (by dividing by 2), we would get a 1 HEX for an HE bomb, and a three hex (for 1 centre and 1 surrounding) for the cluster bombs.
« Last Edit: 31 May 2015, 17:26:11 by NeonKnight »
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10576
The errors on AoE saying radius instead of diameter was already corrected and is in the 2nd printing PDF/book.

The hex play conversion chapter specifically addresses AoE.   2" is target hex and adjacent.  6" is target hex and those within 2 hexes of target.
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

abou

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1780
So there is a greater area of damage in AS than in TW.

iamfanboy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
The only restrictions are in movement l.  You need time to get to the Central Zone.  Once there and you make your attack, you can't stay in the same zone next turn.  So you have to leave the turn after you strike/strafe or bomb, and then come back the next turn after that.
That's why the fighters worth their weight in BV are the Interceptors who can carry their bombs and still move two zones.

...Of course, going to the fighters I see that THEY'VE BEEN ERRATA'D so that the amount of BOMB equals their SZ, instead of SZ+1. Makes sense, they were a bit strong in bomb damage the way they were. *sigh* Now if I didn't already have all of my cards made and printed out - I guess I can just use whiteout.

Fear Factory

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4040
  • Designing the Enemy
So there is a greater area of damage in AS than in TW.

It's the same way we were doing artillery today.
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

Spaceman

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 790
The only restrictions are in movement l.  You need time to get to the Central Zone.  Once there and you make your attack, you can't stay in the same zone next turn.  So you have to leave the turn after you strike/strafe or bomb, and then come back the next turn after that.

So once you make your attack in the Central zone, next turn your fighter would be in the Inner Ring correct? From there they can move to the middle ring and then to the outer ring. Once at the outer ring they can come back toward the fight is that correct?
Demo Agent #567 Binghamton, NY (Southern Tier)
FLGS: Jupiter Games - Johnson City, NY

Southern Tier BattleTech Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/STierBattleTech/

malk2651

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 277
So once you make your attack in the Central zone, next turn your fighter would be in the Inner Ring correct? From there they can move to the middle ring and then to the outer ring. Once at the outer ring they can come back toward the fight is that correct?

Should be Central Zone -> Inner Ring -> Central Zone

Assuming you're not dealing with Enemy fighters.

Example, in our game yesterday my PC's forces had a Slayer and a Chippewa at their disposal.  Fighters start turn 1 at Outer Ring, then move to middle ring.  Turn 2 they move to inner ring.  Turn 3 they move to Central Zone and do their attack runs.  Turn 4 move out to the inner ring zones of their choice.  Turn 5 they came back into the central zone for another attack run. Continue Ad Nausem or till victory or forced withdrawal.

The middle and outer rings seem primarily for Air To Air maneuvers. 

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 39064
  • Carpe Arcanum Cibum
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Once in the Inner Ring, there is nothing stopping you from going back to the Central Zone the next turn. So a fighter in AS can perform a ground attack once every two turns if it so wishes. Half as often as in Total War, but still pretty nice.

Of course, as nasty as the anti-air rules are, a fighter that presses their luck that often probably won't last very long. Better to loiter between the Inner Ring and Middle Zones, saying in only when good opportunities present themselves.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

malk2651

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 277
Although I think there are a few small, very fast fighters that could theoretically attack every turn.  Like a Cheetah.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 39064
  • Carpe Arcanum Cibum
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
This is true.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll