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Author Topic: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike  (Read 3260 times)

nckestrel

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #90 on: 21 July 2021, 19:12:48 »
If the Mad Cat does 5, and needs 3 damage to kill a high TMM, low armor/structure (only needs 3 damage and a 12 to hit.

Single attack roll: 3% chance to hit and destroy.
Multiple attack rolls: 3% chance to hit, but only does 1 damage.  Needs 3 of 5 to hit to destroy.  That’s the math I’m too lazy to do, but should be well less than 3%?

Multiple attacks rolls does mean you are more likely to do some damage to that high TMM unit, rather than whiffing most of the time. But the chance of destroying with a single turn actually go down with multiple attacks, at high TMMs, which is where most high TMM units should be.  That sits thin is why I like multiple attacks rolls.  Less all or nothing, more gradual destruction.

If you are using high TMM units, having them at short range is a waste.  Push that bell curve.
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Holland

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #91 on: 21 July 2021, 19:36:10 »
If the Mad Cat does 5, and needs 3 damage to kill a high TMM, low armor/structure (only needs 3 damage and a 12 to hit.

Single attack roll: 3% chance to hit and destroy.
Multiple attack rolls: 3% chance to hit, but only does 1 damage.  Needs 3 of 5 to hit to destroy.  That’s the math I’m too lazy to do, but should be well less than 3%?

Multiple attacks rolls does mean you are more likely to do some damage to that high TMM unit, rather than whiffing most of the time. But the chance of destroying with a single turn actually go down with multiple attacks, at high TMMs, which is where most high TMM units should be.  That sits thin is why I like multiple attacks rolls.  Less all or nothing, more gradual destruction.

If you are using high TMM units, having them at short range is a waste.  Push that bell curve.

Agreed, I find variable damage rolls to be mechanically more interesting, and just more fun (nothing like a fist full of dice).  As a Clan player I just worry that it costs me my edge (mathematically) but it's hard to parse all the scenarios.

On a related note, the multiple attack rolls optional rules notes you can choose a secondary target (as the multi-tasker SPA), but does it allow 3rd or more targets?  Further, can you switch back and forth between the targets as the SPA allows? 

Multiple Attack Rolls - Commanders Edition (page 175):

The player may switch targets after making an attack on the
first target, however the new, secondary, target has a +1 Target
Number modifier.


Multi- Tasker (page 98):

At the player’s option,
any unit whose gunner possesses this SPA may select two targets
to attack in the same turn, and resolves fire against each one
separately in the same combat phase. You may await the results of
the first attack before declaring the target of the second, and the
same unit may be targeted twice.


It wasn't clear to me if the two are intended to be the same, or different.

« Last Edit: 21 July 2021, 19:38:50 by Holland »

Scotty

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #92 on: 21 July 2021, 21:06:22 »
Personally, I find managing damage allocation to avoid wasting damage to overkill significantly more engaging than picking a target and rolling a bunch of dice for one point each until it dies and shifting with little penalty the instant that happens.  It [multiple attack rolls] effectively removes the most significant consideration for the combat phase outside of identifying the enemy mech you like least in order to feel more like regular BattleTech, when the all in one damage was a good distinguishing feature.  Seeing everyone here strongly in favor of it is a little disappointing.
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CJKeys

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #93 on: 21 July 2021, 21:50:24 »
It seems to me, that if people want to move to this multiple dice rolls, one for each point, it would require the recording of a lot of the true light striker platforms which require the ability to maneuver because they hit like a lead brick at short range, but have no real a/s to speak of.

Because as it stands, those units would suffer death by paper cut before they even have a chance to be of any value to the game.
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Holland

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #94 on: 21 July 2021, 22:43:32 »
Personally, I find managing damage allocation to avoid wasting damage to overkill significantly more engaging than picking a target and rolling a bunch of dice for one point each until it dies and shifting with little penalty the instant that happens.  It [multiple attack rolls] effectively removes the most significant consideration for the combat phase outside of identifying the enemy mech you like least in order to feel more like regular BattleTech, when the all in one damage was a good distinguishing feature.  Seeing everyone here strongly in favor of it is a little disappointing.

Take heart!  The core rule seems significantly more balanced and conducive to streamlined play, quiaff?

The optional rule makes it feel more like a single mech shooting many weapons, which really isn’t the spirit of Alpha Strike.  It’s particularly surprising the folks interested in tournament rules use it, given the balance issues and slow down to speed of play.

Charles_Gideon

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #95 on: 27 July 2021, 02:25:42 »
Created a profile solely to jump into this conversation.
A couple misconceptions I'm seeing that I wanted to make sure were cleared up since they seem to be influencing people's view on the 350 rules. All damage for an attack are rolled at once. So if you want to split your attack, you decide what you're sending where before rolls occur. Also, part of the reason for the inclusion of the multiple attack rolls is to decrease variance. When looking at creating rules for competitive play, the decision was made to encourage players to focus on positioning and playing objectives. Standard damage rules are more likely to create anomalies in game outcomes than multiple attack roll rules.

Elmoth

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #96 on: 27 July 2021, 03:59:02 »
Also, part of the reason for the inclusion of the multiple attack rolls is to decrease variance.
This. This is the key in the multiple rolls IMO

Captain Punka

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #97 on: 27 July 2021, 15:31:05 »
Created a profile solely to jump into this conversation.
A couple misconceptions I'm seeing that I wanted to make sure were cleared up since they seem to be influencing people's view on the 350 rules. All damage for an attack are rolled at once. So if you want to split your attack, you decide what you're sending where before rolls occur. Also, part of the reason for the inclusion of the multiple attack rolls is to decrease variance. When looking at creating rules for competitive play, the decision was made to encourage players to focus on positioning and playing objectives. Standard damage rules are more likely to create anomalies in game outcomes than multiple attack roll rules.

I find this thread interesting and I see both sides of the discussion.  I don't like the idea of rolling each point of damage.  But if you are saying that if a mech does 5 points of damage, you state 3 damage to primary target and 2 damage to secondary target, then roll just 2 attack rolls, I like that approach.  It seems in line with keeping things fast while also adding an interesting choice.

nckestrel

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #98 on: 27 July 2021, 16:08:26 »
Both requiring the split declared ahead of time and allowing a mix of standard attacks and special weapon attacks that the 350 rules use are house rules and not in the rulebook.  Both are specifically declared the opposite in the rulebook.  (not saying they are bad ideas, just noting those are not rules, standard or optional, in the Alpha Strike rulebook).
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Charles_Gideon

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Re: Standard/Tournament Alpha Strike
« Reply #99 on: 27 July 2021, 18:26:05 »
100%. Thank you for clarifying my attempted clarification, which I see might have been just as confusing as anything.

 

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