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Author Topic: VTOLs  (Read 333 times)

MyndkryM

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VTOLs
« on: 01 September 2021, 20:36:07 »
Reading the Warrior VTOL thread in the General Forum got me thinking about the effective use of VTOLs in Alpha Strike.

Here's the thread for reference: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/the-warrior-vtol/

I'm curious as to others experiences using VTOLs, and what features one should look at when force building. The example Air Recon Lance in AS:CE seems pretty self explanatory; using Sprints and Warriors to "save" PV for use on Sparrowhawks. But, if not using Aerospace units what are you looking for?

A Sprint has a MV:26" and a TMM: 4, but TAG is limited to Short and Medium range. Is the TMM good enough to risk entering Medium range to utilize TAG? The previously mentioned thread seems to imply that the Warrior H-7C is best used when it's able to maintain contact but stay at long range. The H-8 sacrifices some potential Long range damage for a higher MV and TMM. This appears to be a pretty decent trade off.

Then looking at other more modern VTOLs, such as the Cavalry, Balac, DI Multi, and Cardinal; all these have a significant PV increase for an increase in damage, armor, and/or abilities, at TMM 3 (Cavalry and Balac have TMM 4).

What are you looking at when selecting units?
"Halfway down the trail to Hell,
In a shady meadow green
Are the Souls of all dead Troopers camped,
Near a good old-time canteen.
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DevianID

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Re: VTOLs
« Reply #1 on: 02 September 2021, 02:15:19 »
So a good way to look at VTOLS is to compare them to elementals, as both are support elements.  The 18 point elemental has 2/2 armor/structure, and a 2/1/0 range profile.  The warrior has an 18 point version for 1 armor 2 structure, with 1/2/1.  So kind of how you keep elementals to discourage inner sphere units from rushing your long range clan units to bring their more efficient spheroid short range weapons to bear, you would protect IS mechs with VTOLs at long range while the brawlers sprint in.  Neither are going to crush your enemies, but both help support your more expensive units--elementals shoring up the clans short range firepower inefficiencies, while vtols shore up the IS long range mobility inefficiencies.

EDIT: Like most things, there are some unspoken rules about force selection for friendly games.  If one guy loves running his Timberwolves, then running 3x18 point or 4x13 point warriors per one 54 point base skill timber is kind of mean, as his 5 damage punches are inefficient at swatting the 3 total pip Warrior, and having a 3/1 or 4/1 unit advantage lets you over run him immediately for infinite backstabs any time you win initiative.  All cheap units in alpha strike should come with a caveat that you cant choose to outnumber your opponent by too much or the game devolves to savannah master spam for 2 damage backstabs from across the map in 1 turn.
« Last Edit: 02 September 2021, 02:28:57 by DevianID »

Starbuck

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Re: VTOLs
« Reply #2 on: 02 September 2021, 07:32:44 »
A Sprint has a MV:26" and a TMM: 4, but TAG is limited to Short and Medium range. Is the TMM good enough to risk entering Medium range to utilize TAG?

Yes.  ;)

I used Sprint Scout Helicopters sucessfully a couple of times as spotters for my artillery units. A skill-3-unit needs 10+ to hit the Sprint Scout at medium range (don't forget +1 for airborne units).
will you lose one or more? eventually yes, for me it is worth the risk. and of course they shold not be the only TAG-units on the field.

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Cannonshop

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Re: VTOLs
« Reply #3 on: 02 September 2021, 08:58:45 »
So a good way to look at VTOLS is to compare them to elementals, as both are support elements.  The 18 point elemental has 2/2 armor/structure, and a 2/1/0 range profile.  The warrior has an 18 point version for 1 armor 2 structure, with 1/2/1.  So kind of how you keep elementals to discourage inner sphere units from rushing your long range clan units to bring their more efficient spheroid short range weapons to bear, you would protect IS mechs with VTOLs at long range while the brawlers sprint in.  Neither are going to crush your enemies, but both help support your more expensive units--elementals shoring up the clans short range firepower inefficiencies, while vtols shore up the IS long range mobility inefficiencies.

EDIT: Like most things, there are some unspoken rules about force selection for friendly games.  If one guy loves running his Timberwolves, then running 3x18 point or 4x13 point warriors per one 54 point base skill timber is kind of mean, as his 5 damage punches are inefficient at swatting the 3 total pip Warrior, and having a 3/1 or 4/1 unit advantage lets you over run him immediately for infinite backstabs any time you win initiative.  All cheap units in alpha strike should come with a caveat that you cant choose to outnumber your opponent by too much or the game devolves to savannah master spam for 2 damage backstabs from across the map in 1 turn.

Y'know, in decades of playing the main game, I was NEVER able to get the Savannahswarm tactic to work?  I always READ about people doing it, and every time I tried it, it failed utterly and completely.  very frustrating, maybe I should try it in Alpha STrike and see if it finally works the way people say it does.
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DevianID

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Re: VTOLs
« Reply #4 on: 02 September 2021, 23:52:09 »
Its very different in alpha strike.  They cost more, but do 2 points of damage in the rear... so imagine if the savannahs had AC20s when shooting rear and 10 damage in the front, thanks to rounding.  In Btech you would need at least 2-4s the amount to equal that damage, though because they are better like i said they cost more in alpha strike.

Elmoth

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Re: VTOLs
« Reply #5 on: 03 September 2021, 08:46:29 »
Take in mind that vtols in AS and CBT play very differently. For example, the Warrior variants with an AC5 or LRM are clearly better than the one with an AC2 in AS.

VTOLS are very good in AS. Their high TMM can make them extremely efficient if you play in eras without pulse lasers and the like. Same for hovercraft. I have sparse experience with them, but some players I have seen (more than played against) swar by their vtols. Until the campaign places them in an airless escenario, but hey, so is the BT life :P

MyndkryM

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Re: VTOLs
« Reply #6 on: 03 September 2021, 19:40:06 »
Same for hovercraft.

Hovercraft are so expensive, Maxim Heavy Hover Transport (BA Field Upgrade) for 36PV each....but they look so good.
"Halfway down the trail to Hell,
In a shady meadow green
Are the Souls of all dead Troopers camped,
Near a good old-time canteen.
And this eternal resting place
Is known as Fiddlers’ Green...."

-"Fiddler's Green" The US Cavalryman's Prayer

 

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