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Author Topic: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle  (Read 3888 times)

ABADDON

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Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« on: 08 February 2011, 15:00:55 »
So I was thinking about some BA equivalent to the iHGR, which would top any canon BA weaponry in regard to concentrated damage output per shot.
Dunno whether something similar has already been on the old forum. So please forgive me, if I'm just necromancing old ideas.
I want to know, whether this whole thing could be considered as somewhat balanced or completely nuts.


On the pro side the weapon has:
-range equal to the Magshot
-higher damage than a Heavy Medium Laser

noted as cons:
-heavy as a Heavy Medium Laser
-large as nothing ever seen before on a BA
-should almost be impossible to mount, thus it would require a very specialized BA (yes, I'm thinking about a non-omni Fenrir, as this BA Heavy Gauss is supposed to be a Lyran invention anyway)
-very high c-bill price (made by Lyrans, so who gives a damn?)
-very heavy ammo (in relation to other BA weaponry)
-high recoil

So... I came up with the following:

Code: [Select]
"Thor Heavy Gauss Rifle"

Damage: 12 (maybe even 15? though I guess that would be bonkers)
Range: -/3/6/9
To-Hit-Mod.: +1 (recoil)

Mass: 1000 kg
Slots: 10

Shots per Ammo weight: 5 per 20 kg

Weapon Cost: 250.000
Ammo Cost: 5.000

Weapon BV: 88
Ammo BV: 11

I don't know anything about the MW RPG, so I just leave that part out.

The only possible BA design I could think of to field this thing would be a Fenrir without its modular turret and reduced MP (32,4 km/h)

So, what do you say? A reasonable approach/idea or completely bonkers (if so, pls care to explain/modify what I've came up with)
« Last Edit: 08 February 2011, 16:24:27 by ABADDON »

Sabelkatten

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #1 on: 08 February 2011, 15:43:36 »
So... It's a headcapping, IS tech, HML? Of course it does weight 25% more, but I doubt you can really sell the idea!

Given that it's supposed to be IS tech it should be more like 1,500 kg. Give it a +2 to hit modifier or some other serious drawback and you might be able to argue that it's balanced at 1,000 kg...

ABADDON

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #2 on: 08 February 2011, 15:45:51 »
10 Slots are kind of a serious draw-back to me.

Though a +2 to hit modifier instead of +1 might be appropriate. I agree.

1500 kg would be quite impossible to actually mount on a BA, aye?

Sabelkatten

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #3 on: 08 February 2011, 17:22:07 »
1,500 kg can actually be carried with a DWP...

Much like crit size on a mech, slot size isn't really a drawback on BA. It limits what you can mount, not how effective the equipment will be once mounted.

And 12 damage with 3/6/9 range is damned effective!

+2 to hit modifier puts it in the range of resonable, at least.

Shatara

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #4 on: 08 February 2011, 21:05:36 »
Worth mentioning the HML is 1000kg, unless I've missed some errata.

A big DWP-only gun is an interesting concept. Though rolling headcappers on the cluster table is a scary prospect to face.

ABADDON

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #5 on: 09 February 2011, 02:44:34 »
Much like crit size on a mech, slot size isn't really a drawback on BA. It limits what you can mount, not how effective the equipment will be once mounted.

Well it is a drawback in a way that you will need a quad chassis with max 5 points of standard armor (unless you want a super slow quad BA) to actually mount that weapon. And if you want to go with more than 5 shots of ammo, it will in fact eat up all the slots of a potential Fenrir non-omni BA.

Though I think I will go with the +2 to-hit-m. you proposed anyhow.
« Last Edit: 09 February 2011, 02:48:17 by ABADDON »

Psyckosama

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #6 on: 09 February 2011, 16:24:00 »
I'd honestly make an OS version of the Thunderbolt 10 for BA.

Basically just a big damned missile...

NightmareSteel

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #7 on: 04 March 2011, 00:59:16 »
Did you seriously multiply the damage that the biggest ISBA gauss weapon does by six?  And it does as much damage as a 'mech scale *gauss rifle?* Jeez.

Intriguing idea, and I could likely rationalize it based on following the patterns of 'Mech based gauss rifles and basing on the Magshot, but you know what?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "no," and not even because it's unbalanced (which I feel it is, with that kind of damage bump), but because it doesn't make *sense.*

Where is the incremental increase from a 175kg magshot to a 350kg supergauss?  Where is the scaled damage over ranged, a quality I would assume this monstrosity would share with the Heavy Gauss, since it's less about getting a small projectile to RIDICULOUS SPEED (forgive the shouting), and more about getting a large projectile moving fast, a sort of high muzzle velocity AC/20.  (that's how I envision it anyway.)

In short, how did they *get* there?

Having just played the part of the "hells, no" crowd, however, let me provide an alternative possibility- The Clan BA based HAG-10.  You'd have to pay through the nose for ammo, since those things are always ammo-hogs, since they're basically vulcan-gausses, yes?  And at least the clans have a history of building "Smaller, more efficient, more miniturization," Whereas the Lyrans have a history of over-engineering their 'tech, which is what made the HGauss a possibility for them.

Use your existing stats, make it 10 damage, apply all the standard mods for HAGs, drop it to 900 kilos or so for the firing mechanism, and make each shot 50 kilos (since each burst of firing is about 50 1kg slugs), and I think you might have something that makes sense.  And doesn't cluster head-cappers.

Bear in mind, what you do in your game is fine.  But this really does make more sense to me.

Sabelkatten

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #8 on: 04 March 2011, 04:39:33 »
I was thinking a bit about this yesterday. The big problem with it IMHO is the headcapping potential and massive size. The first because it makes it horrible to balance, the second because it makes it plain boring - there just won't be much in the way of options if you try to design a BA around it!

So what if we try to come up with a weapon that's just a little smaller? 10 damage to avoid headcapping, ~7 slots so that there's still some possibility of customizing.

Let's give it limited ammo as suggested above to keep the weight resonable as well.

A 10 damage weapon is roughly comparable to a SRM7 in effective damage, so 420 kg for the weapon and 70 kg per shot with 3/6/9 range looks like a good starting point. But if it's a BFG the ammo should be a little lighter than for a missiles launcher.

How does this look:

Rocket-assisted assault gaus rifle: 10 damage, range (3)4/8/12, 700 kg/5 slots. Ammo is 30 kg per round, 4 rounds per slot.

This gun can be mounted on a heavy BA, and a biped can mount it as long as it only packs 4 rounds. The unusual range profile makes it distinct from other BA weapons as well.

NightmareSteel

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #9 on: 04 March 2011, 17:21:05 »
Quote
Rocket-assisted assault gaus rifle: 10 damage, range (3)4/8/12, 700 kg/5 slots. Ammo is 30 kg per round, 4 rounds per slot.

I like this, with two extremely nitpicky and minor details.  I *still* think it's light for the damage output (I'm picturing squads of 4 MBA loaded with these, bounding across the battlefield.  20-40 points of damage, repeatedly, from a ba squad? What is the world coming to?), and I'd call it something else- that's just based on my understanding of rockets, gauss weapons, the limits of solid fuel, and so on.  I'm sure that by 3060, chemistry will have changed enough for gyrojet weapons to get that effective.

Aside from those (nitpicky) details? I like it.

Sabelkatten

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #10 on: 05 March 2011, 03:43:56 »
I like this, with two extremely nitpicky and minor details.  I *still* think it's light for the damage output (I'm picturing squads of 4 MBA loaded with these, bounding across the battlefield.  20-40 points of damage, repeatedly, from a ba squad? What is the world coming to?), and I'd call it something else- that's just based on my understanding of rockets, gauss weapons, the limits of solid fuel, and so on.  I'm sure that by 3060, chemistry will have changed enough for gyrojet weapons to get that effective.

Aside from those (nitpicky) details? I like it.

The name's just made to sound cool! ;) Plus, the only BA weapons that count ammo are Tasers and missiles. So something missile-like seemed good.

As for the damage it's not actually so fantastic. For comparable weight you can get a SRM battery that causes just as much damage, or a ML/Magshot battery that causes only a little less without any ammo worries.

At the above weight you can make a workable heavy BA with one of the guns (Quad with 8 rounds, 5 armor or Biped with 4 rounds, a LMG and 7 advanced armor). Or an interesting assault BA.

NightmareSteel

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #11 on: 05 March 2011, 14:36:30 »
It was actually the damage/range combo that seemed like it should use more weight.

And you can say the damage isn't fantastic, but I normally mount flamers and LMGs on my BA.

Infantry-stompers, ahoy!

Sabelkatten

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Re: Custom Heavy Gauss Rifle
« Reply #12 on: 05 March 2011, 17:32:38 »
It was actually the damage/range combo that seemed like it should use more weight.

And you can say the damage isn't fantastic, but I normally mount flamers and LMGs on my BA.

Infantry-stompers, ahoy!

I figure the minimum range penalty should make up for the longer range. Straight 4/8/12 range would make it real nasty, but a 3-hex minimum range should make it real tough if the enemy wants to get in close!