Register Register

Author Topic: "Primitive" battle armor  (Read 4734 times)

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
"Primitive" battle armor
« on: 05 January 2019, 14:17:01 »
OK, there aren't actually any rules for primitive BA. But we do have prototype armor, and we can come up with some ideas of the complexity of other systems.

That's where we get Frontier Protection System, inc. A long-time producer of hostile environment gear such as deep-diving suits and space suits they immediately saw the potential in BA technology that was spreading across the IS in the 3050's. Unfortunately being based way out in the periphery meant getting access to said technology was easier said than done.

Finally getting hold of a second-hand Infiltrator and a damaged (and discarded) Sloth they immediately got to work designing BA that could be produced and maintained using the limited resources available.

The first design was built as basic as possible, using many components from the civilian products. The FPS Protector is outwardly very similar to the classic elemental, possibly because it's also based on armored diving suits. It does however lack jump jets and advanced weapons, and its armor is far more fragile.

Thanks to it's (relatively) low cost and (most importantly) availability it became an immediate hit. Even some IS-based mercs unable to get more modern equipment purchased small lots.

Code: [Select]
FPS Protector
IS medium BA 3/4/3 slots 175 kg
3 ground MP 80 kg
2 basic manipulators 0 kg
5 points prototype armor 2/0/2 slots 500 kg
MG RA 1/0/0 slots 100 kg
Detachable RL/5 Body 0/4/0 slots 135 kg
APWM LA 0/0/1 slots 5 kg

Against enemy infantry the original version suffered from the short range of its MG, leading to the mark II.

Code: [Select]
FPS Protector mk.II
IS medium BA 3/4/3 slots 175 kg
3 ground MP 80 kg
2 basic manipulators 0 kg
5 points prototype armor 1/1/2 slots 500 kg
LRR RA 1/0/0 slots 175 kg
Detachable RL/2 Body 0/2/0 slots 60 kg
APWM LA 0/0/1 slots 5 kg

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #1 on: 05 January 2019, 14:35:57 »
With the proof-of-concept design making money FPS decided to start producing their second design, which unfortunately turned out to rather less successful. The Breacher was designed to close assault buildings and fight in other restricted areas. Unfortunately its low speed and short range meant this was to ONLY thing it could do, and few customers were willing to pay for such a limited capacity.

Code: [Select]
FPS Breacher
IS heavy BA 3/6/3 slots 300 kg
2 ground MP 80 kg
2 basic manipulators 0 kg
10 points prototype armor 0/4/0 slots 1000 kg
MG RA 1/0/0 slots 100 kg
MG LA 0/0/1 slots 100 kg

However police and security units did find it useful, and with the line already set up FPS modified the design with equipment tailored towards policework rather than military assaults. One MG was replaced with a GL (usually loaded with tear gas or flash-bangs) and a mount for an automatc shotgun. In addition an IR sensor was mounted to track movement through walls. It still didn't sell well, but good enough to avoid a loss.

Code: [Select]
FPS Breacher SWAT
IS heavy BA 3/6/3 slots 300 kg
2 ground MP 80 kg
2 basic manipulators 0 kg
10 points prototype armor 0/4/0 slots 1000 kg
MG RA 1/0/0 slots 100 kg
Micro GL LA 0/0/1 slots 75 kg
APWM LA 0/0/1 slots 5 kg
Heat sensor Body 0/1/0 slots 20 kg
« Last Edit: 08 January 2019, 05:05:56 by Sabelkatten »

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #2 on: 07 January 2019, 03:45:00 »
60 views but nobody interested enough to comment? :(

NullVoid

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 145
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #3 on: 07 January 2019, 08:18:40 »
The thing is, there is such thing as primitive battle armor; they are called exoskeletons, and have been around since the early spaceflight time frame. Years ago I speculated on these boards what commercial armor for exoskeletons would be like (here)

I love your concept of retrotech BA, but Prototype Standard Armor is not, in fact, a low-tech version of Standard Armor, but an unoptimized one. If you look at the "Battle Armor Structural Costs and Availability" table (pg. TM281), you'll notice Standard and Prototype Standard are both Tech Rating E and cost the same amount of cash; therefore, if you have a factory capable of putting out Prototype Standard Armor and bother to do any R&D (or industrial espionage) at all, you'll eventually be able to build Standard.

As a matter of fact, building BA chassis already requires a Tech Rating of E, so it's pretty advanced for the Clan Invasion era Periphery powers. Exoskeletons and PA(L) are respectively TR C and D, so it should be easier to build and maintain even in relatively backwater planets.

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #4 on: 07 January 2019, 10:38:42 »
Yeah, and that's the reason behind this idea. Why can't you make primitive BA, using lower-tech (and thus heavier) components? Exo-skeletons exists, as does armor (unless you subscribe to the idea that you must use a magic "fit this to protect a person" ritual on armor to put it on BA...). Putting them together might be difficult, but that's just another reason for this thread.

And since I prefer using existing rules where possible, I figured that prototype armor, limited use of JJs, and limited "low-tech" weapon selection would provide a good stand-in for primitive technology. :)

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28832
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #5 on: 07 January 2019, 19:13:10 »
The annoying thing is that space adapted exoskeletons existed for quite some time, then Tech Manual required actual armor to seal against vacuum, leaving the previous gear out in the cold.

Red Pins

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3389
  • Inspiration+Creativity=Insanity
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #6 on: 07 January 2019, 21:47:45 »
Hmm.  Tagged.
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
Glitter - the herpes of the craft supply world.

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #7 on: 08 January 2019, 05:05:22 »
Stung by the negative reception of the Breacher the design team of FPS went back to looking at the Sloth. The quad chassis showed promise regarding mobility and possible armor protection; putting the pilot completely inside the armored body shell and removing the vulnerable and complicated arms made chassis design simpler. The problems were the legs and control system. The latter was solved by using a standard feedback system and essentially having the operator crawl (leading to a lot of jokes about "knuckle-draggers"), the weapon controls were slaved to a helmet sight requiring the hands only to push the trigger buttons. The legs were simply beefed up into four small barrels which allowed solid protection thought it slowed the design by 33%.

The final design looked somewhat like a miniature four-legged Urbanmech. The right-hand weapon mount held a standard maching gun plus a light infantry weapon while the left was equipped with another innovation. Unable to fit a SRM guidance system in the small space available the designers looked to the new MRM system that had quickly spread across the periphery. The lack of guidance system solved that problem, while the smaller missiles simplified the reolading system.

Code: [Select]
FPS Defender ("Gorilla")
IS assault quad BA 11 slots 550 kg
2 ground MP 0kg
No manipulators 0 kg
10 points prototype armor 4 slots 1000 kg
MG Body 1 slots 100 kg
APWM Body 1 slot 5 kg
MRM3 Body 2 slots 180 kg
MRM3 ammo (11) 3 slots 165 kg

Like the Protector the MG of the Defender turned out to be rather short-ranged when facing enemy infantry. A variant was quickly developed that replaced the large missile rack with a combimation mount containing a single MRM tube plus a medium RR.

Code: [Select]
FPS Defender mk.II ("Thumping Gorilla")
IS assault quad BA 11 slots 550 kg
2 ground MP 0kg
No manipulators 0 kg
10 points prototype armor 4 slots 1000 kg
MG Body 1 slots 100 kg
APWM Body 1 slot 5 kg
MRR Body 2 slots 250 kg
MRM1 Body 1 slot 60 kg
MRM1 ammo (7) 2 slots 35 kg

(Note: This was the first unit I designed. I really just wanted to test if it was possible to make a useful BA with 10 points of prototype armor! :) )

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8595
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #8 on: 15 January 2019, 02:14:37 »
Reminds me of the CAI-50 Challenger Light Combat Armor from Rifts...

Chipwel Arms or something...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #9 on: 23 February 2019, 09:18:18 »
The most advanced design FPS engineers have managed to produce, the Pointman is is based on a slimmed-down Protector. The goal of the weight-reduction program was to allow the use of the Bodylifter Super jump pack, a heavily modified EVA suit maneuvering pack. The smaller chassis also reduced the energy signature of the suit allowing a practical application of stealth systems.

Unfortunately these improvements came at he cost of ground mobility, protection and firepower. Thus it was early decided to equip the Pointman as a scout unit, removing the planned missile armament for heat sensors and extra power cells.

Code: [Select]
FPS Pointman
IS light BA 2/4/2 slots 100 kg
2 ground MP 30 kg
3 Jump MP 75 kg
2 armored gloves 0 kg
4 points prototype stealth armor 1/1/2 slots 500 kg
MG RA 1/0/0 slots 100 kg
Heat sensor Body 0/1/0 slots 20 kg
Power pack Body 0/1/0 slots 25 kg

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8595
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #10 on: 23 February 2019, 13:20:36 »
I'd have to say, nice BA design.  But wouldn't the MG be better as a torso mount? Like in Iron Man's Warmachine. That way it'll leave your arms free to do things.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28832
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #11 on: 23 February 2019, 13:38:11 »
I don't know... I think I'd like to be able to point the darn thing behind me in combat (at least at the RPG level)...

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #12 on: 23 February 2019, 15:44:32 »
Well, I just figure an arm mount would be easiest from a strictly technical viewpoint. After all the trooper should know how to aim a gun, so the "fancy stuff" needed is a slaved sight for accuracy. A torso-mounted gun needs a whole extra set of actuators.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28832
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #13 on: 23 February 2019, 15:51:19 »
That too!  :)

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #14 on: 23 February 2019, 16:31:49 »
Anyone with more ideas for "primitive" BA?

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28832
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #15 on: 23 February 2019, 17:10:21 »
I think the most "primitive" BA would be simple exoskeletons allowing infantry to carry more/heavier weaponry.

Another idea would be to use lower BAR armor that would at least provide protection from small arms.

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #16 on: 23 February 2019, 17:51:28 »
PA(L), 3 ground MP, 2 armored gloves, 2 point prototype armor, Detachable RL/2 Body. :)

Intermittent_Coherence

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1078
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #17 on: 25 February 2019, 14:34:18 »
Did we have construction rules for primitive exoskeletons?

Major Headcase

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 995
  • We're paid to win. Heroism costs extra...
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #18 on: 24 March 2019, 06:15:19 »
I love the idea of Primitive or low tech Battle Armor! Reminds me of our games of Cyberpunk back in the day; the whole team parachuting into a 3rd world warzone in the cheapest powered armor money could buy!! 😂

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8595
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #19 on: 24 March 2019, 13:22:21 »
Or Chipwell Industries if you played Rifts!



Particularly when your using GAW or WI weapons! ( Looking at you, WI-23A Caseless SMG with RamJets! )

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

DOC_Agren

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3792
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #20 on: 09 April 2019, 19:52:08 »
I love the idea of Primitive or low tech Battle Armor! Reminds me of our games of Cyberpunk back in the day; the whole team parachuting into a 3rd world warzone in the cheapest powered armor money could buy!! 😂
3rd world..  also make sure you brought enough high tech gear, not like us who endup flying out in an old UH-1C carrying the AK-47 we took off the ops force after all our high tech gear died or ran out of ammo.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #21 on: 11 April 2019, 16:31:57 »
The Hardshells, a mercenary unit that specializes in heavy infantry tactics, bought a significant number of FPS BA suits early on. Unhappy with their Breacher suits for the same reason as must other units that started tinkering and soon came up with a useable modification. Using spare MRM launchers for mk.II Defender suits they replaced one of the MGs, adding a light infantry weapon as well. Thought still slow and with limited firepower the new variant have enough range to stay relevant on an open battlefield.

FPS later bought the specs to offer a similar variant to other customers. Most, however, prefer the Gorilla if they want a large BA.

Code: [Select]
FPS Breacher Missile
IS heavy BA 3/6/3 slots 300 kg
2 ground MP 80 kg
2 basic manipulators 0 kg
10 points prototype armor 0/4/0 slots 1000 kg
MG RA 1/0/0 slots 100 kg
MRM1 LA 1 slot 60 kg
MRM1 ammo (7) 2 slots 35 kg
APWM RA 0/0/1 slots 5 kg

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6401
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #22 on: 03 December 2020, 08:45:21 »
Wayward Arms & Armor (WAA) is another out-of-the-way perphery manufacturer of combat equipment. Having made knock-offs of classic IS infantry weapons and light AFVs since the late 2700s the idea to try making a BA in the mid-3050s wasn't all the surprising.

What was surprising was their choice of design. Based on "acquired" plans for the Rottweiler quad BA a unique design was put together. Unable to produce a computer system able to guide the movement of the quad design WAA engineers simply applied a straightforward feedback system like that used in bipedal suits or the FPS Gorilla BA.

However the Terrier is just as fast as the Rottweiler, significantly faster than other suits using this type of controls. This pushes the operators far harder making the Terrier one of the most exhausting BA to operate in existance, significantly limiting long-term operations. It does however make for a surprisingly agile BA.

In other respects the Terrier is a strictly conventional design. The armor is strong enough to take an old-style medium laser while the paired MGs provide effective if short-ranged firepower.

WAA has experimented with other equipment options such as a turreted missile rack, but so far no prototype has been deemed acceptable.

Code: [Select]
WAA Terrier
IS medium quad BA 7 slots 175 kg
5 ground MP 120 kg
5 points prototype armor 4 slots 500 kg
APWM Body 1 slot 5 kg
MG Body 1 slot 100 kg
MG Body 1 slot 100 kg

Darzoni

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 152
Re: "Primitive" battle armor
« Reply #23 on: 16 December 2020, 13:02:53 »
While tinkering with my own AU, I came up with the concept of 'duty armor' as a sort of primitive battle armor.  Basically it's just a PA(L)  with two points of armor and nothing else, designed solely to make it harder to kill support personnel with small arms.  You can obviously take the leftover mass and customize it to particular sorts of duties.  Use the concept how you want.

 

Register