Register Register

Author Topic: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW  (Read 13933 times)

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« on: 30 May 2020, 04:42:58 »
Here are the TW stats for the Sniper Rifles just published in Shrapnel Issue #1.  Six of them suffer damage reduction due to the Reload Factor as a consequence of having less than 10 shots in their magazines.  All six can be easily fixed with the "Expanded Capacity" weapon modification on page 161 of the AToW Companion, which is why I included the "No RLF" column in the table.  Below the table, I'll discuss implications for infantry squad/platoon design.
Code: [Select]
Name Shots AP BD TW Dmg No RLF Crew AToW Rng TW Range
Lancelot Mk V 10 4 4 0.28 1 125 4
Barton AMR (Std) 8 5 7 0.49 0.61 1E 200 7
Barton AMR (AA) 8 6 7 0.59 0.74 1E 200 7
Sairentosutomu 8 4 4 0.22 0.28 1 150 5
Yuan Ling 10 4 4 0.28 1 205 7
Hammel Marksman 12 4 4 0.28 1 130 4
Thorshammer 10 4 4 0.28 1 175 6
SR-17 Suns Killler 15 4 5 0.35 1 150 5
Praetorian S-3 10 5 5 0.44 1E 145 5
Praetorian S-5 10 5 6 0.53 1E 150 5
LRS-53 Sniper Rifle 9 4 4 0.25 0.28 1 140 5
Wilimton RS-14 10 4 5 0.35 1 160 5
Wilimton RS-17 (MD) 10 5 6 0.53 1 175 6
Wilimton RS-17 (Str) 10 5 6 0.53 1 170 6
FNF-J12 (Dark Caste) 8 4 6 0.34 0.42 1 150 5
FNF-J12 (SLDF) 8 4 6 0.34 0.42 1 175 6

Five of the weapons exceed the damage of the bog standard Auto Rifle (0.52; four of them do it even without extended magazines).  None of them exceed the damage of the various Mausers or infamous Federated Arms M42B, so if you have access to those, the way to go is two Sniper Rifles per squad.  If you don't, a single Heavy Grenade Launcher with the rest being Sniper Rifles will maximize your damage and range without impacting your mobility.

Of note, all exceed the Intek Laser Rifle in damage AND range, and most exceed the Mark XX and ER Laser Rifles too.  Most of them are also cheaper than any flavor of Laser.

The absolute most damage that can be done combines Taurian organization with 2 Extended Capacity Barton AMRs firing Anti-Armor rounds and 8 Mauser IICs per squad for damage of 12.43 per squad (rounding to 37 per platoon) at 7/14/21 hex range with no mobility reduction.  This is still inferior to the Support Laser (ER, Heavy Clan) and leaves the Bearhunter as the undisputed king of support weapon damage, though both of those impose a mobility restriction (and the latter has much shorter range).  Paul was right about this aspect of these weapons not being unbalancing (or at least no more so than existing Support Weapons).

I don't know if the various to hit bonuses apply in TW, but if they do, these weapons become extraordinarily powerful (fortunately, the Barton doesn't have those kind of bonuses).  I have left those off the table with a view toward only posting the numbers needed to check the math of the conversions.  See Shrapnel #1 (pages 74-81; that's 75-82 of the pdf file) if you want the whole story.

EDIT: Missed the "Encumbering" note on the Praetorians.  Fixed now.
« Last Edit: 30 May 2020, 05:59:43 by Daryk »

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7197
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #1 on: 30 May 2020, 05:05:26 »
From a fluffy standpoint I think the Taurian rifle is probably the most threatening. All the other guns you'd expect to see in rare special units, while the fluff for the Suns Killer says it's one of the most common military rifles in the Concordat. Not many states can boast planetary militia platoons with light infantry mobility and large laser range.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #2 on: 30 May 2020, 05:53:01 »
And it's 5 points of damage per squad (15 per platoon) with nine of those and one Heavy Grenade Launcher, too.  At the aforementioned 5/10/15 range...

Dave Talley

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3503
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #3 on: 30 May 2020, 11:26:05 »
is that normal mech hexes?

or the old human scale hexes for roleplaying?
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #4 on: 30 May 2020, 11:50:05 »
The AToW ranges are in meters, and the "TW Range" gives the Short Range in normal 30m hexes.  Yes, some of these rifles have LRM range (with no minimum).  The conversion process from AToW Companion is to take the Short Range in meters, divide by 30, round normally, and that gives the short range in hexes.  Double and triple as normal to get Medium and Long Range (and quadruple for Extreme).

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #5 on: 30 May 2020, 12:59:55 »
Maybe the taurians all have really good eyesight?
Agreed, though, the mode of deployment makes the weapon.
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #6 on: 30 May 2020, 13:29:05 »
Well, given its stats, their rifle has a built in scope...  ^-^

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17533
  • I can and I will make you use a Garm
    • Master Unit List
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #7 on: 30 May 2020, 13:39:56 »
Yes, some of these rifles have LRM range (with no minimum).


Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #8 on: 30 May 2020, 14:17:03 »
Exploring cost comparisons, I find using 2 Sniper Rifles with Auto Rifles for the rest of the squad is at worst 2 points of damage less at the platoon level than using 1 Heavy Grenade Launcher and Sniper Rifles for the rest.  Several are the same at the squad level.  And it's MUCH cheaper to go that way.  Quick comparison:

5 Auto Rifles and 2 Lancelot Mark Vs per squad: 20 * (2000 * sqrt(80)) + 8 * (2000 * sqrt(400)) = 677,771 for 13 damage

vs.

6 Lancelot Mark Vs and 1 Heavy Grenade Launcher per squad: 24 * (2000 * sqrt(400)) + 4 * (2000 * sqrt(1500)) = 1,269,839 for 14 damage

Plus, most of the Sniper Rifles use the same ammunition as the Auto Rifle (4B/4).

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6499
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #9 on: 30 May 2020, 15:03:53 »
Can any BA with an AP mount use these?
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #10 on: 30 May 2020, 15:09:26 »
If using the rules for that, I don't see why not.
Of course, they are far less impressive on a 4-man squad than a platoon.
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #11 on: 30 May 2020, 15:29:01 »
Per Paul's answer to my Rule's question, YES!

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6499
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #12 on: 30 May 2020, 16:08:15 »
If using the rules for that, I don't see why not.
Of course, they are far less impressive on a 4-man squad than a platoon.
Just having the range is a big help in many situations, even if it is just to ping.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #13 on: 30 May 2020, 16:36:29 »
I would point out that that option is not for TW level play.

In TW level play you fill those AP mounts &/or Gloves in with Auto Rifle stats (I assume so the BV is accurate).

Now that said, whatever works for your home game or if your playing at the RPG level.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #14 on: 30 May 2020, 16:40:17 »
Tech Manual page 171 doesn't seem to limit it to that:
Quote
Battle armor equipped with one or more armored glove manipulators may use one additional non-Melee conventional infantry weapon with crew requirements of less than 2. The weight of this weapon or its ammunition is never counted towards a battlesuit’s weight limits.

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11894
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #15 on: 30 May 2020, 17:39:00 »
On the same page it also makes no restriction for modular anti-personel weapon mounts, such as those found on the Kanazuchi.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #16 on: 30 May 2020, 18:01:25 »
Am I blind?  I only see a reference to go read page 271...  ???

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11894
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #17 on: 30 May 2020, 18:06:02 »
There is a section on 171 dealing with modular mounts that can be applied to anti-personel weapons as well, which 170 more directly covers in also not making any restriction that it has to be autorifles.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #18 on: 30 May 2020, 18:21:09 »
Ok... I suppose you could derive that from there, but I'll say page 271 is MUCH clearer:

Quote
The rules on p. 218 of Total Warfare presume the battlesuit is mounting a single Auto-Rifle as an AP weapon. At the players’ option, the
damage, ranges and to-hits of alternative anti-personnel weapons types may be found in accordance with Step 2 of the Conventional
Infantry core construction rules (starting on p. 148).

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #19 on: 30 May 2020, 20:24:30 »
As I said,  Total Warfare rules.   

Not Tech Manual construction rules.

I'm talking canon BA Record Sheets, not create your own options Infantry.

Under TW rules & the fixed BV for canon units, they are counted as being "Rifle/Ballistic" squads.

Ditto the gloves of GDL Scouts, or others.

This goes back to even before TW rules when GDL Scouts were allowed to pick between any of the canon Infantry Platoons & count as a 4 man squad.

Daryk found the rule, its Pg 218 of TW in the Infantry Section & then under BA area & finally in the Anti-Personnel Weapons paragraph.

They are now limited to Rifle/Ballistic where the old GDL let them pick between any of the 5 common weapon options.  (Laser, SRM, Rifle, MG, & Flamer)



Now, again, if you want to create your own platoons for a home game, go for it, equip them any way you want.

I'm just pointing out how they work using canon RS under TW rules for BV balancing.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #20 on: 31 May 2020, 02:18:26 »
Being this entire thread is about infantry weapons from a brand new source, it's not surprising TW doesn't support their use, nor that there aren't any canon record sheets for units employing them (yet).

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #21 on: 31 May 2020, 11:31:57 »
I really don't think we will get some special BA RS that shows one of these Sniper Rifles, or for that matter, any other weapon in TM, inside the AP mount.

TW has a pretty clear rule, for TW level play, you count them as a Ballistic/Rifle platoon.

Its not even really AR exactly, since the Ballistic/Rifle platoon might have a single squad weapon it its damage table, IDK.

And while I'd love to have my GDL scouts all toting around a Hvy Sup Laser w/ 15 range, that isn't balanced for their BV compared to any other choice someone makes.

Its like letting your custom change your SHS mech into DHS & keep the original BV intact.  (Not that extreme but you get the point)

I get the rule.

And I would happily allow custom infantry in my home games,  I'm just saying slapping any weapon you want into an Elemental's AP mount isn't TW legal or BV balanced.

Its probably not much BV for those different weapons, but, its still BV & a non-canon RS & rules beyond TW.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11894
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #22 on: 31 May 2020, 11:53:33 »
Quote from: Total Warfare corrected sixth printing page 218
Anti-Personnel Weapons: If a battle armor unit carries antipersonnel weapons, follow all the rules for conventional infantry,
using the Rifle, Ballistic column of the Generic Conventional
Infantry Damage Table and the number of active troopers in the
battle armor unit to determine range and assign damage. The
standard rules presume the mounting of a single Auto-Rifle as the
unit’s anti-personnel weapon. At the players’ option, the damage,
ranges and to-hit numbers of alternative anti-personnel weapon
types may be used as per TechManual, page 271.
Regardless of the
anti-personnel weapon type or how many anti-personnel weapons
a battle armor unit mounts, the unit can only make one anti-personnel weapon attack in a turn, using only a single anti-personnel
weapon per suit.

There you go, you can expand your options.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #23 on: 31 May 2020, 13:01:36 »
Monbvol, you are my hero...  :smitten:

That said, just so we're all perfectly clear where we each stand: I have always thought (and still think) BV is a completely useless measure, at least as useless as tonnage.  When I use it myself, it's only because the GM of the game in question has set it as a requirement.

OK, that off my chest, please try to keep future conversation focused on these really neat weapons TPTB have given us!  :thumbsup:

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8566
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #24 on: 31 May 2020, 15:31:25 »
At the players’ option, the damage, ranges and to-hit numbers of alternative anti-personnel weapon types may be used as per TechManual, page 271.

Technically that is not correct...

https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/TM_22-Tech-InfTables-Rev2017.pdf

And even this is outdated...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #25 on: 31 May 2020, 15:33:58 »
That errata doesn't address page 271 and has been incorporated into the newest printing, at least far as I can tell.  What exactly is your point? ???

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8566
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #26 on: 31 May 2020, 15:42:51 »
It's outdated and still in the errata page as ' the ' official weapons listing... so it either needs to go or get replaced.

That's my point...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #27 on: 31 May 2020, 15:51:49 »
I have always thought (and still think) BV is a completely useless measure, at least as useless as tonnage.

LOL

Can we test that?   I'll take a TimberWolf-A & you can have an Augustus A-3 Tank.

Or to match tech levels & unit type, I'll take a ThunderBolt-5SE & you can have a Jagermech-6S

BV isn't perfect.  It has a couple areas that even BV2 didn't get right.  But its far better off than any previous method used.

But I think we can agree to disagree & leave it at that.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11894
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #28 on: 31 May 2020, 16:06:13 »
It's outdated and still in the errata page as ' the ' official weapons listing... so it either needs to go or get replaced.

That's my point...

TT

Okay so a Tech Manual errata needs to be updated to incorporate new additions of weapons but this doesn't change the fact that Total Warfare corrected sixth printing allows using what they want instead of autorifles.

My pdf is the corrected sixth printing, the latest version of Total Warfare, and just to be sure I checked the December 2019 errata document because it would not have been the first time an errata failed to get incorporated into the pdf, and it has the exact same text that I quoted.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #29 on: 31 May 2020, 16:17:12 »
Hellraiser, I don't know you well enough to make a judgment as to what would be a fair fight between us.  But I'll say at best BV gives us a false impression of what fair would look like.  I suppose that means we disagree, but I'll agree to that.

Errata is out of date the instant it's published.  We shouldn't get wrapped around that particular axle.

Can we PLEASE get back to talking about these cool new Sniper Rifles?  ::)

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #30 on: 31 May 2020, 17:24:02 »
Well I have not read the article yet so I don't know the fluff.

But based on the 1E crew of the Barton & the name "Yuan Ling" I don't think either of those 7 range beasts will get retconed into my custom infantry.

I do love the name "Hammel Marksman",  LOL,   Did someone sneak in a SW reference?

I assume the Thorshammer is a Lyran rifle, so that is an option for my old FedCom mercs infantry.

I am curious what the fluff is behind the Wilimton trio of models & the FNF (SLDF)

Code: [Select]
Name Shots AP BD TW Dmg No RLF Crew AToW Rng TW Range
Thorshammer 10 4 4 0.28 1 175 6
Wilimton RS-17 (MD) 10 5 6 0.53 1 175 6
Wilimton RS-17 (Str) 10 5 6 0.53 1 170 6
FNF-J12 (SLDF) 8 4 6 0.34 0.42 1 175 6
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

trboturtle

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3839
  • Erraturi te salutant!
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #31 on: 31 May 2020, 18:42:52 »
Well I have not read the article yet so I don't know the fluff.

Well, I wrote the article, so... ;)

Quote
But based on the 1E crew of the Barton & the name "Yuan Ling" I don't think either of those 7 range beasts will get retconed into my custom infantry.

The idea was to expand the selection of weapons beyond the ones found in the AToW handbook. I never really considered them for the Battletech battlefield, and I'm reading the thread with interest.

Quote
I do love the name "Hammel Marksman",  LOL,   Did someone sneak in a SW reference?

To be honest... er, no, it never occurred to me on a conscious level....  :-[

Quote
I assume the Thorshammer is a Lyran rifle, so that is an option for my old FedCom mercs infantry.

It is.

Quote
I am curious what the fluff is behind the Wilimton trio of models & the FNF (SLDF)

The Wilimton (MD) was used by the Manei Domini troopers and is built for their use. The Wilimton (Str) is for those who aren't MDs. The FNF is from Phil Lee's Story, Whispering Death, and I thought it should be included.

Craig
Author -- "The Lance Killer," "Hikagemono," "Negotiation," "Snipe Hunt," "Groundpounder," "The Clawing," "Salvage," "The Promise," "Reap What You Sow," "Color of Authority," "Family Ties," "The Blood of Man," "End of Message," "Heroes' Bridge," "Kurodenkou," "Thirteen," "My Father's Sword," "Evacuation," "Warrior's Song," "Operation Red Lion," "A Matter of Honor," "State of Grace," "Operation Blue Tiger," "A Warrior's Fear," "Shadow Angels," "Murphy's Method," "End of the Road," (IAMTW 2019 Scribe Award nominee!), "Tales of the Cracked Canopy: Blind Arrogance," "Laws Are Silent," "No Tears," "Tales of the Cracked Canopy: Shadows of the Past," and the Novels Icons of War, Elements of Treason series and Vengence Games

My Blogs!
Battletech:  http://thebattletechstate.blogspot.com/
Other writings: http://trboturtleswritings.blogspot.com/

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6499
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #32 on: 31 May 2020, 18:51:28 »
Well, I wrote the article, so... ;)
Thanks they really filled a niche that required something.  :thumbsup:

Anymore of such useful articles?
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #33 on: 31 May 2020, 19:05:22 »
Thanks for weighing in trboturtle!  :thumbsup:

For everyone else, as I mentioned earlier, I was trying to limit how much I shared here to limit the amount of quoted material.  Seriously, go check out Shrapnel #1!  :thumbsup:

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #34 on: 31 May 2020, 23:03:03 »
To be honest... er, no, it never occurred to me on a conscious level....  :-[


The Wilimton (MD) was used by the Manei Domini troopers and is built for their use. The Wilimton (Str) is for those who aren't MDs. The FNF is from Phil Lee's Story, Whispering Death, and I thought it should be included.

Well I took one look at it & thought, I think someone is playing word games here, LOL.   Guess not :)

Well a Blakist gun probably isn't getting retconed into my Merc infantry either, lol.
  Maybe there is hope for the Mjolnir if its old enough  ;)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #35 on: 01 June 2020, 02:28:57 »
Its availability is X-C-C, so I think it's probably is old enough.  If not, the Liberator Mark V and Hammel are C-C-C.

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #36 on: 12 June 2020, 09:34:42 »
How do they compare to the Minolta 9000, which is fluffed as the ultimate sniper rifle made for the Death Commandos?

Auberan

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 96
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #37 on: 12 June 2020, 10:46:07 »
All are pretty much better in regards to range, though there are only three that match its penetration, and one of those is an anti-material rifle.

The Capellan one is the best ranged one by far though, and is fluffed as being used by their special forces and has mention of a Death Commando maybe using one, so it's either a replacement, or they use the 9000 for when they need more penetration over range.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #38 on: 12 June 2020, 14:50:57 »
Paul came back pretty quickly with the answer on the to-hit bonuses: they do NOT translate to the TW level (whew!).

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #39 on: 13 June 2020, 09:38:14 »
All are pretty much better in regards to range, though there are only three that match its penetration, and one of those is an anti-material rifle.

The Capellan one is the best ranged one by far though, and is fluffed as being used by their special forces and has mention of a Death Commando maybe using one, so it's either a replacement, or they use the 9000 for when they need more penetration over range.

Yeah, kind of having to turn my head sideways to figure out if these fit with the other sniper rifles in game or not.

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6499
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #40 on: 13 June 2020, 12:21:05 »
Yeah, kind of having to turn my head sideways to figure out if these fit with the other sniper rifles in game or not.
Maybe the Minolta 9000 is more silent? Because these anti-material rifles certainly aren't.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #41 on: 13 June 2020, 13:50:51 »
Silencers feature on several of the Sniper Rifles yes, (and no, not the Barton AMR).

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11894
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #42 on: 13 June 2020, 14:21:00 »
I have felt that the sniper rifles in RPG stats were always a bit underwhelming and many were criminally short ranged for sniper rifles.

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6499
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #43 on: 13 June 2020, 14:22:31 »
Silencers feature on several of the Sniper Rifles yes, (and no, not the Barton AMR).
Silence can be relative, it could be that the Minolta 9000 is silence at very short range, which could be very handy in a city.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #44 on: 14 June 2020, 10:01:45 »
The Minolta got reduced weight, reduced penalties for unsupported fire and no need for a simple action to chamber the next round in Lostech for MW3.

I mean, as it is, the Yuan Ling has better availability, the same AP/BD, Longer Range, same ammo count, costs the same (though its ammo is more expensive) and the Yuan Ling comes with its own night-vision scope.

So why the Minolta then?

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #45 on: 14 June 2020, 10:08:55 »
As presented, I think you might be able to install a silencer on the YUÀN LÍNG...

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #46 on: 14 June 2020, 10:42:52 »
Sure. Or a scope on the Minolta. But you still have to ask yourself, why take the Minolta at all?

The Lancelot as well. Lower tech, lower availability (and available in all eras), lower legality, same damage, much greater range, cost is less than half, weight is the same as Minolta, which took endo-steel to build, and has a superscope on it.

I mean, nice in theory, but sort of reminds me of when HB:HD was released the and M61A and M42B were stat'd and they just blew everything away.

edit
changed the second availability to legality
/edit
« Last Edit: 14 June 2020, 11:06:14 by Maelwys »

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #47 on: 14 June 2020, 10:48:14 »
And they still haven't fixed the M42B... it's the only "Standard" weapon with the Heavy Burst special.

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #48 on: 14 June 2020, 18:38:23 »
Does it get that by trying to mix up the standard rifle with the support rifle version or something?

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #49 on: 15 June 2020, 04:09:42 »
It combines the grenade launcher for the rifle configuration with the burst value of the machine gun.  It should either be listed as a support weapon, or lose Heavy Burst (several other "standard" rifles with attached grenade launchers do similar damage).

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #50 on: 15 June 2020, 21:09:09 »
Sounds fun. Doubt they're going to shift them to support, since that would negate a couple of the conventional infantry units from TR3085.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #51 on: 16 June 2020, 03:17:07 »
Ideally, they'd stat out both versions of the weapon, and use two them configured as MGs for Support weapons.

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #52 on: 17 June 2020, 07:04:31 »
Hadn't considered that. That would work. Since they split Inferno/non-inferno ammo, splitting HMG/Rifle would seem to make sense as well.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #53 on: 17 June 2020, 14:20:05 »
Exactly.  There are far more elegant solutions to the problem than merging everything (including the machine gun!) into the rifle stat block.

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #54 on: 20 June 2020, 14:02:23 »
It combines the grenade launcher for the rifle configuration with the burst value of the machine gun.  It should either be listed as a support weapon, or lose Heavy Burst (several other "standard" rifles with attached grenade launchers do similar damage).

Random thought & curiosity questions since I don't have the RPG stats.

Are we 100% sure it just gave the value of both?

Is it possible they averaged the values?  Like 50/50 per platoon?

What happens if you had them as 2 separate stats & then have 5 of the GL version w/ 2 of the MG version as "support" weapons.

Don't they lack the E for crew so we would still end up with full movement?

In the RPG stats are the 2 versions noticeably different range values?

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11894
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #55 on: 20 June 2020, 15:13:21 »
The M42B RPG wise is one weapon where you can take 20 seconds and change it from a Close In mode to a Support Machine gun mode or something between those that RPG wise falls under the Small Arms skill.

There seem to be some parts changing involved too because the Close In configuration is 1kg lighter than the standard mode despite having more gadgets integrated in that mode.

Off hand I'd guess barrel with the reduced AP/BD ratings and reduced range, possibly even the bolt action/trigger with the burst rate change, and a different magazine for the support version.

I suspect someone swapped what was supposed to go where and never corrected it.

So yeah it is all the same weapon.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #56 on: 20 June 2020, 18:21:23 »
Lacking "E" has no effect on the movement penalty imposed by having two support weapons per squad.

I posted the errata for this years ago.

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #57 on: 01 July 2020, 19:27:06 »
So as long as the crew is 1 or 1E, each trooper can have one, right?

Total Side note: quick someone make a Star Wars blaster variant!

Anyway:

30 Troopers w/ 30 Rifles: sweeeet.

Cobra was ahead of its time when they equipped their troopers!

Daryk, that table copy/pasted (unformatted) quite nicely!  You are awesome, even if you trade your PPC's in for Blazers!

Ugh, time to read through and add in mass for rifle and ammo! b/c ... I just need to.

[edit] Also, no idea about the extended clip: is that simply 2x the ammo? also (simply) the extra mass would be the weight of another ammo clip?
« Last Edit: 01 July 2020, 19:48:05 by Wolf72 »
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #58 on: 01 July 2020, 19:40:42 »
Yep!  1 or 1E means Sniper Rifles for ALL your friends (just ask the Taurians…)!

I'm glad the table formatting worked for you!  :thumbsup:

And yes, Blazer Cannons for ALL MY FRIENDS!  :D

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #59 on: 01 July 2020, 19:48:59 »
just edited above, to late it seems:

What are the basic mass/weight stats for an extended ammo clip?  simply 2x shots and mass?
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #60 on: 01 July 2020, 20:45:24 »
So as another add-on here:

Small (.499 tons and smaller) support vehicles (tiny tot combat vehicles too? -esp w/ fractional accounting) could use these as weapons.

I have quite a few small vehicles that could use some range. Since weapons fire individually and need to do .5 or more damage, there are some nice options.

I designed a 31st+ variant of the Huey (4.3 tons, and 11/17 move -- fairly close to modern day).  On my weapons variant I could go 5 sniper rifles with plenty of ammo -- Yes, Please! *see below*

wait a sec: Does adding additional ammo for light scale weapons (on small support veh's) take up an item slot? (I've been building as yes, they do).

Still: even doing 2 points out to range 21 is kinda cool!  Like a LAC-2 LBX style! --Guerilla warriors, you have been given more options!
« Last Edit: 02 July 2020, 20:34:49 by Wolf72 »
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #61 on: 02 July 2020, 02:26:57 »
The extra capacity and weight are +50% (per the AToW Companion, page 161).

Regarding weapons on Support Vehicles: yes, they take up a slot (per Tech Manual, page 136).

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #62 on: 02 July 2020, 06:02:13 »
What mods could be used to make them better? Is extended mag the only one?
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #63 on: 02 July 2020, 06:43:40 »
The extra capacity and weight are +50% (per the AToW Companion, page 161).

Regarding weapons on Support Vehicles: yes, they take up a slot (per Tech Manual, page 136).

got the weapons taking up a slot, what about their extra ammo?

+50%, ... So that's +50% for the ammo included and/or for the extra ammo?

Edit: doh, should use an example that actually needs extended ammo

Drac Rifle:
8 shots
.007 t (7 kg) -- rifle
.050 kg (50 g)  ammo

an extra extended clip brings it to 12 shots at .075 kg (75 g)

is there any weight added to the Rifle itself? TM rules say one clip (round/shot as per weapon description) is included weight free.
Would this one be .00725 t (or 7.25 kg) for the added rounds or do we get to keep the 'free' weight on it?

Finally saw this tidbid from p136 of TM pdf:
Quote
Regardless of their type, these weapons
require no heat sinks and come with a free clip; they may carry
ammunition in multiples of their clip size. (Small and Medium
weapons incorporate their ammunition into the slots devoted to
the weapons themselves, and require no added slots for expanded
reserves.)

So I can add in extra ammo for small weapons w/o using slots.  Nice, was wondering if they can share ammo, but that is probably a moot point in TM terms, possibly AToW rules might need something specified.
« Last Edit: 02 July 2020, 08:00:40 by Wolf72 »
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #64 on: 02 July 2020, 07:39:18 »
Also: in TM/TW terms would the entire ammo clip be expended, like a burst from other infantry weapons in TM?
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #65 on: 02 July 2020, 14:59:47 »
They're all semi-auto or bolt action, so they shouldn't consume the entire magazine with one trigger pull.

The weapon doesn't get heavier, just more expensive.  And yes, you can also fiddle with the AP and BD (at the expense of the other, or range).  You could also increase range by decreasing AP or BD (or both... it's a 25% range increase per point of AP/BD, 50% maximum increase; .5 rounds up!).  Note that the range increases are for the AToW range values, so increase those, THEN convert to TW hexes.

AToW Companion was worth its purchase price for these weapon modification rules and the actual conversion rules to TW alone (pages 170-171 for those).  I can't recommend it highly enough!  :thumbsup:

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #66 on: 02 July 2020, 16:44:43 »
And here I thought the companion was rather horrible.  ???
You never stop learning.
Would extra range be worth it, though?
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #67 on: 02 July 2020, 17:32:16 »
I think they should put out AToW weapon conversion & tables to TW (and vice versa if needed) as a .pdf.

Not sure I'm up for more math and rules figuring.

Thanks again for the tables!
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #68 on: 02 July 2020, 17:43:21 »
If you build a spreadsheet that shows you the AP/BD conversion to TW damage, you will see that it can TOTALLY be worth it...  ^-^

Seriously... I'm of the opinion that the AToW to TW conversion rules could be the E=mc2 of the BTU.  Not everyone appreciates that foundation, but it really underpins everything built on it...  It should get more attention than it does...

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #69 on: 02 July 2020, 19:40:02 »
spreadsheets, xl, googlesheets ... ewww. It'd be like learning to type (which I am quite good at when not completely distracted) ... horrible to begin with, but worth it in the end.  Old cranky me does not want to put in the time nor effort!  Maybe for my 1/2-century mark in 2022
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #70 on: 02 July 2020, 19:52:28 »
Heh... you're only a year behind me...  ^-^

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #71 on: 02 July 2020, 20:19:50 »
I dare say we are not impacting the average age here that much  :thumbsup:
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #72 on: 02 July 2020, 20:32:58 »
Stoopid bad click ... just deleted my own post!

Anyway: Back on Topic

I have a 4.3 ton support VTOL, the Huey.  A 31st century clone of our late 20th century workhorse.

It moves 11/17, 860 km range, armor (hah! it's like BAR-nada with only 5 pts):  But it can shoot as far as an LRM-5/LB-5X and for a lot longer still doing up to 5 1pt hits! -- don't sneeze at it though, or shoot any infantry weapons at it please.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7197
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #73 on: 02 July 2020, 20:45:59 »
I dare say we are not impacting the average age here that much  :thumbsup:

It's been a while since I've had a chance to feel young...
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #74 on: 03 July 2020, 02:43:23 »
Glad we could help, Liam!  :D

I like the Huey, but honestly, I've always just considered the Ferret to be the 31st century UH-1...

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #75 on: 03 July 2020, 05:30:17 »
While it may work rules wise, I wonder if putting multiple sniper rifles on a vehicle makes sense in any sensible capacity.  ???
Then again, that is exactly the kind of Zany design I appreciate.  :D If it works, all the better.
Is it really that much further off the deep end than line infantry armed with snipers and automatic incendiaries?  :)
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #76 on: 03 July 2020, 09:17:49 »
While it may work rules wise, I wonder if putting multiple sniper rifles on a vehicle makes sense in any sensible capacity.  ???
Then again, that is exactly the kind of Zany design I appreciate.  :D If it works, all the better.
Is it really that much further off the deep end than line infantry armed with snipers and automatic incendiaries?  :)

Sure it's further off the deep end! It can move 11/17!  Imagine a company of these as deterrents.  As long as atmosphere and weather permit you are immune to terrain restrictions (well not visibility).  and striking out to 21 hexes!  If I did my math correctly each of the 5 rifles will have 60 rounds of ammo.

Note to potential customers: best not to sit and plink, shoot-communicate-move on out is the phrase of the day for Sniper Hueys.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8566
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #77 on: 03 July 2020, 14:18:41 »
I see your Huey and dare you to raise a Hind!

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #78 on: 03 July 2020, 14:38:12 »
I see your Huey and dare you to raise a Hind!

TT

Maybe later!
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #79 on: 03 July 2020, 15:22:32 »
That sounds like its very own design thread...  ^-^

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #80 on: 03 July 2020, 16:44:12 »
That sounds like its very own design thread...  ^-^

Yes, yes. No hijacking! looking up stats on it from wikipedia.

Back on topic:

um

Yay, Sniper Rifles!  12 hexes seems kinda short for some, but considerably more than most infantry weapons.  I like the 15+ range, simply b/c your platoon is more likely out range for any shorter range weapons.  12 is kinda close.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #81 on: 03 July 2020, 17:02:18 »
12 is for the cheap and ubiquitous weapons... the more expensive ones can really reach out and touch someone with the rest of the platoon's Auto Rifles...  ^-^

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6499
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #82 on: 03 July 2020, 17:31:56 »

Question: Which Sniper Rifle (and possible modifications) are best for shooting Tau Zombies?
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #83 on: 03 July 2020, 17:37:46 »
Its availability is X-C-C, so I think it's probably is old enough.  If not, the Liberator Mark V and Hammel are C-C-C.

What is the full line Daryk?   With Legality/Technology added?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #84 on: 03 July 2020, 19:44:43 »
Most of them are TL C, and Legality C or D.  A couple are Legality B (who would have thought the Taurians would make these things widely available?  ::)).

The Lancelot (not Liberator, sorry for the crossed wires) is C and C, and the Hammel is C and B.  Again, I was trying to limit "verbatim content" to stay on the right side of TPTB...

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11251
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #85 on: 04 July 2020, 12:15:22 »
Sorry, I was asking about the Thorhammer, I should have cut off the last part of the sentence to avoid confusion.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #86 on: 04 July 2020, 12:20:18 »
The Thorshammer is D and D...

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #87 on: 05 July 2020, 23:28:20 »
Question: Which Sniper Rifle (and possible modifications) are best for shooting Tau Zombies?

Well, the Barton with the Anti-Armor Rounds is fluffed as being used against the MD, since its going to cut through their WoB issued armor, as well as any dermal armor implants the MD may have.

Of course, that's not really surprising. The Barton with the AA rounds has the highest AP and BD, as well as one of the longest ranges.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #88 on: 06 July 2020, 04:22:06 »
Agreed... sorry I got distracted by the other question...

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #89 on: 17 January 2021, 10:08:49 »
To answer the earlier question about customizing one of these rifles to increase the range, the most egregious example I can think of would be:
Take the Barton AMR with Anti-Armor rounds (6AP/7BD), decrease that to 5AP/6BD (for TW damage of 0.53) and increase the short range of the weapon by 50% (the maximum) to 300 meters.  That translates to 10/20/30 range at TW scale.  The Yuàn Líng rounds to the same range, but with less damage.

Sabelkatten

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6357
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #90 on: 17 January 2021, 10:26:56 »
Am I the only one who thinks those stats are for a completely different game than CBT...?

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #91 on: 17 January 2021, 10:34:07 »
I think they do fit, albeit at the edge.

Sabelkatten

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6357
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #92 on: 17 January 2021, 10:43:12 »
Infantry rifles with longer range than the longest-ranged AC (ignoring HVACs... ::) )?

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #93 on: 17 January 2021, 10:47:49 »
For half a point of damage.  Edge cases like this are why I've long advocated for consistency in the foundations of the game.  I think he AP/BD curve is a firm foundation, and it would be firmer if it was more rigorously applied.

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6499
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #94 on: 17 January 2021, 11:00:51 »

Personally it is my opinion that if it doesn't do a full point of damage each then Bar10 gets to ignore it.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society
Nebula Confederation Ships

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #95 on: 17 January 2021, 11:04:24 »
Understood (we've had this conversation before).  As I said above, I think the AP/BD curve gets it largely right.  BT is a weapons universe, not an armor one.

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #96 on: 27 June 2021, 15:16:00 »
So have you taken a look at the other weapons that have come out of Shrapnel?

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #97 on: 27 June 2021, 16:41:56 »
Not yet... waiting to have spare cash to buy more issues.  I heard there are pistols... anything else?

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #98 on: 27 June 2021, 17:26:41 »
Pistols in 3. SMGs in 5.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #99 on: 27 June 2021, 17:43:13 »
Cool... I'll work up their TW stats when I get those issues.  Thanks!  :thumbsup:

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #100 on: 11 June 2022, 14:13:09 »
Just for completeness, the SMG thread is now up (and linked in my sig block), and the Pistol thread will go up by next weekend.  Thanks again to Maelwys for the tip!  :thumbsup:

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #101 on: 14 June 2022, 07:32:30 »
Combat shotguns in Shrapnel 7, but thanks for the work, I'll check out the data and comment later :)

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #102 on: 14 June 2022, 17:17:50 »
I'll have to get that one too, then... thanks again for the tip!  :thumbsup:

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #103 on: 16 June 2022, 15:49:13 »
And 9 adds Laser weapons...both pistols and rifles.

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7197
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #104 on: 16 June 2022, 16:37:10 »
And 9 adds Laser weapons...both pistols and rifles.

And a fair number of those rifles hit a friggin ton.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #105 on: 16 June 2022, 17:47:21 »
Fine... I'll buy TWO more issues...  ::)

And slightly more seriously: darn, I was working on infantry lasers myself...  :-\

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #106 on: 16 June 2022, 21:58:12 »
Considering they're being released every other issue, it wouldn't surprise me if these were written long ago and are sitting already submitted and in the queue even before Shrapnel 1 was released (or atleast well in advance). Especially considering how often the author appears in Shrapnel.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #107 on: 17 June 2022, 03:20:29 »
Good point... I wonder what #11 will have for us...  8)

CVB

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1638
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #108 on: 17 June 2022, 03:44:42 »
The 3151 Special Edition of Jane's Carbon-Reinforced Fingernails of the Inner Sphere
 ;D
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #109 on: 17 June 2022, 07:27:04 »
One thing I don't get is why the availability codes don't have the Dark Ages information...unless these were originally submitted a really really really long time ago.

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2342
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #110 on: 17 June 2022, 13:54:58 »
The 3151 Special Edition of Jane's Carbon-Reinforced Fingernails of the Inner Sphere
 ;D

Laser ... Swords!!!! blue, green, PURPLE, Red  (I know they put the light saber in Hotel California, just had to toss it in the mix!)
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #111 on: 17 June 2022, 17:53:52 »
One thing I don't get is why the availability codes don't have the Dark Ages information...unless these were originally submitted a really really really long time ago.
That's a question for Craig...  8)

Giovanni Blasini

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5981
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #112 on: 22 June 2022, 01:58:50 »
So, just for my own mental image, what would be the closest real-world equivalent to the FNF-J12 rifle?  Shrapnel describes it as being used for defense and for hunting by the Dark Caste, and I'm not clear on whether it's bolt-action or semi-auto.  Tech Readout 3085 has the Dark Caste bandits using "bolt-action rifles" which, somehow, results in this:



That...I guess could be bolt-action?  And TR3085 obviously uses the generic weapon since the FNF-J12 hadn't been published yet, but in theory, that could be a picture of it.  Still feels off though.

Reason I ask is I'm considering using the FNF-J12 for my Niops infantry as a primary weapon, with a single Support PPC vehicle per squad in a motorized infantry platoon, and I'm trying to picture what all this would look like in my head.
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27569
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW
« Reply #113 on: 22 June 2022, 03:25:03 »
My guess is the image on page 81 of Shrapnel #1 is it, and I don't see a bolt.  It's still a bullpup, though...