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Author Topic: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW  (Read 5044 times)

Daryk

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Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« on: 25 June 2022, 09:07:43 »
No word back from Craig or any of TPTB, so here's the current Laser Rifle list.  Of note, the Marik Sunraker and Steiner DWS L5L both breach the 0.60 cap when used as Primary weapons.  That means they get the Heavy Burst special in addition to having longer range than the Support Laser, Semi-Portable.  And of course, they don't require a crew of two either.  The Taurian Scorcher is also interesting, in that it has a chance to set the target on fire.  See Shrapnel #9 for the detailed rule.  The really odd ones are the Yáng Liè and Firebolt-12 (unrepaired).  Weapons that fail that often generally don't get fielded.  The Firebolt is actually WORSE than an HVAC, as it fails on a 3 or 4 in addition to exploding on a 2.  Every one of these rifles outranges the bog standard Laser Rifle, and most do more damage.

If money is no object, there's no reason not to go with the DWS L5L.  Throw a single Grenade Launcher into each squad, and you can get 5 points of damage at 5/10/15 range with no movement penalty, plus the aforementioned Heavy Burst special for all your anti-infantry needs.

Code: [Select]
Laser Rifles TW AToW TW
Name Aff TL PPS AP BD Burst Dmg Range Range Wt Cost Notes
Yáng Liè Laser Rifle CC D 5 6 5 1 0.53 110 4 5.5 1,275 Fails on 2
Darklight-CL Laser Rifle DC D 10 6 4 1 0.42 100 3 5.5 2,400
Syrtis Firebolt-12 Laser Rifle FS D 5 6 5 1 0.53 150 5 6.5 2,200 Fails on 3 or 4, EXPLODES on 2
Syrtis Firebolt-12 (repaired) FS D 7 4 4 1 0.28 125 4 6.7 2,500
Wolf-Barron Sunraker Laser Rifle FWL D 10 7 5 1 0.61 110 4 6.7 2,500
DWS L5S Laser Rifle LC D 5 5 5 1 0.44 120 4 6.5 2,000
DWS L5C Pulse Laser Rifle LC D 7 4 4 6 0.36 100 3 5.5 1,800
DWS L5L Laser Sniper Rifle LC D 15 7 5 1 0.61 135 5 7.5 2,500
Tirbuni Pulse Laser Rifle MH D 8 5 5 5 0.56 115 4 7.7 1,900
Gaul Pulse Laser Rifle LL D 7 4 4 6 0.36 130 4 7.5 2,200
Scorcher VI Blazer Rifle TC D 10 6 5 1 0.53 125 4 7.5 1,500 Fire damage too; see Shrapnel #9
BrightStar L-15 Laser Carbine Clan D 3 5 5 1 0.44 120 4 1.8 2,500

CVB

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #1 on: 25 June 2022, 09:34:02 »
Talk about power creep :o
Combining Sniper (Shrapnel#1) and Laser Rifles in a platoon could give interesting results: Range, Damage, and Burst, or Incendiary >:D
Do I really want to see new Infantry Support weapons?

Do the fails and explosion actually apply in TW play, or are they AToW only?
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Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #2 on: 25 June 2022, 11:31:33 »
I'm less sure they don't apply than the to-hit bonuses for Sniper Rifles, that's why I left those notes in.

Maelwys

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #3 on: 25 June 2022, 21:28:25 »
Not as bad as it could be considering some of the other weapons, but those are really impressive ranges.

And the APs make a mockery of alot of the personal armor ratings in ATOW...

Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #4 on: 26 June 2022, 03:52:23 »
They do that too.  I suppose the good news is these don't enable you do anything worse than was already possible with a Sniper Rifle and a Bear Hunter at TW scale (i.e., 3 points of damage at 7/14/21 range with the Heavy Burst special per 2-trooper squad).  What they do allow is an all-energy version that does 2 points of damage at 5/10/15 range (still with the Heavy Burst special; use the DWS L5L and a clan Support Laser, ER).  "Platoons" built like that with Solar Rechargers (which are ridiculously light) would only be limited by food and water.

Maelwys

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #5 on: 26 June 2022, 15:49:19 »
What could possibly be even more scary is imagine once these factions start applying Clantech to these.

Sure, most Clanners may not see a reason to push things with regards to infantry weapons, but the IS will.

Then again, maybe they are applying Clantech advances and that's why there's such a ramp up. Kind of hard to tell since the availability codes for the weapons seem  pretty random and not beholden to anything.

Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #6 on: 26 June 2022, 16:14:48 »
I think the availability codes show it doesn't take clanner tech to achieve those results at the infantry level.  I'd characterize it as the clans don't care to bother.  It seems to me laser transmission in atmosphere is governed by more than one effect, and the effect that dominates is dependent on the power.  Hence you get support lasers doing 1 or 2 points of damage at ridiculous ranges, while Small Lasers do more damage at ridiculously SHORT range. The bog standard IS Medium Laser seems to hit the sweet spot all around.
« Last Edit: 02 July 2022, 15:21:21 by Daryk »

Maelwys

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #7 on: 14 July 2022, 20:54:31 »
Did you ever get anything interesting out of the author, or do these pretty much stand as mentioned (or should we be looking at an errata post?))

Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #8 on: 15 July 2022, 05:49:42 »
Nothing yet via PM or the "Ask the Writers" forum...  :-\

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #9 on: 08 November 2022, 19:47:21 »
Is a BV given for those weapons in Shrapnel?  Can't make platoons without one.
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Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #10 on: 08 November 2022, 20:21:13 »
Sadly no, but I'm sure those who use BV can point you to the formulas to calculate them...  :-\

boilerman

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #11 on: 16 November 2022, 23:20:00 »
So what's the canon status of the small arms in Shrapnel?
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Goose

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #12 on: 16 November 2022, 23:29:02 »
Isn't that what he's transcribing? Shrapnel, at lest the "hard" facts, are canon? :(
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #13 on: 16 November 2022, 23:29:10 »
So what's the canon status of the small arms in Shrapnel?

Shrapnel is canon.
If you mean the conversions Daryk has done I would assume so, it’s just an extrapolation of the canon data.
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boilerman

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #14 on: 16 November 2022, 23:35:51 »
Shrapnel is canon.
If you mean the conversions Daryk has done I would assume so, it’s just an extrapolation of the canon data.
I believe Daryk is using the canon conversion rules. Yea, we have a power creep issue IMO.
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Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #15 on: 17 November 2022, 04:22:57 »
Yes, I'm using the AToW Companion page 171 conversion for these threads.

Lagrange

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #16 on: 01 January 2023, 10:56:28 »
Are these new weapons relevant for 3025?  (Or do they all have a later introduction date?)

Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #17 on: 01 January 2023, 11:07:31 »
They mostly have SW availability codes, yes.

Lagrange

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #18 on: 01 January 2023, 14:43:17 »
They mostly have SW availability codes, yes.
That's fascinating.

So, you can have space marines with divisor 2 armor, a zero recoil laser rifle which fires to a battletech range of 15 while additionally counting as burst fire, and a squad support weapon which is a low recoil automatic grenade launcher for room clearance, all while remaining unencumbered with 3025 equipment, right?

The only downside seems to be cost.  The per-trooper cost for this is 2000*sqrt(2500(weapon cost))*3(marine multiplier)=300K which is 9M for a platoon of 30 composed of 5 squads of 6.  The cost structure here is odd, since it doesn't seem to even take into account the armor. 

Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #19 on: 01 January 2023, 14:45:11 »
Yeah, armor has been missing from the cost equations forever.  I usually just add the cost of each individual suit with no multipliers.

Lagrange

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #20 on: 01 January 2023, 22:40:26 »
Yeah, armor has been missing from the cost equations forever.  I usually just add the cost of each individual suit with no multipliers.
It's 5% of the total cost here, which is presumably mostly about training.  If so, it seems not absurd for the suit to make training marginally easier and hence incur no additional overall cost.  Either way, it hardly matters.


Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #21 on: 02 January 2023, 06:47:26 »
It matters at the low end, and I prefer procedural calculations that work across the spectrum.  But that's me.  YMMV.

Lagrange

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #22 on: 02 January 2023, 20:19:52 »
It matters at the low end, and I prefer procedural calculations that work across the spectrum.  But that's me.  YMMV.

Yeah, that makes sense.

How do you get .61 for the L5L?

Penetration factor = 7/4 = 1.75
Damage factor = 5 * (3.5 + 1) where the '1' comes from rounding up to a burst of 1.

Reload factor is dependent on the battery back size, but if you use a 3kg satchel battery with 150 PP the reload factor is 1.

Putting this together, I get TW damage = 1.75*22.5/50*1 ~= .79

Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #23 on: 02 January 2023, 20:26:29 »
Herb errata'd the formula some time ago to "round normally" vice "round up".  It's kind of buried in the middle of my index thread these days, under "Other" in the AToW section.

Lagrange

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #24 on: 02 January 2023, 20:44:31 »
Herb errata'd the formula some time ago to "round normally" vice "round up".  It's kind of buried in the middle of my index thread these days, under "Other" in the AToW section.
Got it.

It looks like you need a strength of 6 or more to remain unencumbered since the suit is 20kg and the rifle + battery is at least 10kg.   But that seems reasonable enough for marines.

Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #25 on: 02 January 2023, 20:49:19 »
6 is very doable in AToW, and honestly you might as well go for 7 to get the bonus.  The good news is the armor isn't encumbering by itself, and even gives +2 to Zero-G Ops rolls.

Lagrange

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #26 on: 02 January 2023, 22:40:04 »
Yeah, I tried to condense all the details here.

Daryk

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Re: Shrapnel Issue #9 Laser Rifles for TW
« Reply #27 on: 03 January 2023, 04:20:43 »
Dang it, wrong thread... ignore this post.